Replying To Yellow: "Absolutely gutted to lose to a 14 man Offaly. Why wasn't JJ Twamley brought on? Same old story. Different team same result. Lose lose lose every year - we always think this year will be different and it never is. Poor tactics from the line did not use the extra man well. We threw it away as it was there for the taking if we kept cool heads" JJ did come on?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 21:31:58
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Replying To Past hurler: "Things that didn't go in our favour -
1. Offaly going down to 14 men & Wexford with not a scooby doo how to use the extra man.
2. A man up and working the ball out from the back every single time and coughing up scores from dropping it or handpassing it to the opposition.
3. 2-3 points down for the last 10 minutes and a refusal to land a ball or two on top of their goalie to test him out. I can't temper the Offaly goalie having to make a save.
A Caroline Currid psychologist is definitely needed in Wexford hurling big-time from under 15 up to senior level because there is a serious mental block when it comes to winning big games if it is not against Kilkenny.
Cian Byrne was outstanding again tonight and Simon Roche from Oulart hurled some stuff corner back but some of the lads who lifted it against Kilkenny barely felt the weight of the ball tonight." On point 2 I felt so sorry for Keith Rossiter. I made a point of going over and shaking his hand when I was out on the pitch with the kids and he was standing off by himself with his family after the presentation. He sent on Farrell for Dundon to move our extra man up the pitch and our backs repeatedly tried running or shortpassing the ball up the pitch instead of playing it in longer. I was standing right on the halfway line and Offaly had 5 lads in a line across the pitch there. Every time one of our lads ran into them or received a hospital pass there he was surrounded and turned over. Offaly broke fast and got frees, Screeney only missed one placed ball I think, or scored points, and their goal came from that area when they broke forward also. I think the atmosphere and size of the crowd got to some of our lads some looked nervous and there was an absence of the heads up hurling they showed in Nowlan Park. Now I haven't watched the game back but that was how it looked live.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 21:39:19
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Replying To wexford2012: "Wexford u20 Joe Carroll You First off hard luck to the Wexford lads and management, valiant effort and it must be gut wrenching to come up short by 2 points again in a Leinster final.
My ability to provide meaningful analysis is limited as I was with my two small boys who due to it being terracing were struggling to see any of the game and so we ended up down by by the fence, surprisingly standing next to the parents of Corey Byrne Dunbar (their pain was palpable) - so despite the cauldron like atmosphere in Carlow last night, IMO it's just not a suitable ground for big games like last night.
I was expecting a massive Offaly support but not that they would outnumber Wexford 4 or even 5 to 1 .
I'm not normally one for the whole 'best supporter' debate but last night was a surprise, i thought it might be 60/40 but it was more like 80/20.
It's been a while since we've played Offaly in a game where their support got vocal and I'd forgotten who utterly irritating their 'Uí Failghe, Uí Failghe' chant is, only possibly topped by 'Tipp, Tipp' but they won't care, in fact I'm sure they relish this reaction.
It really was like a home game for Offaly from the off and it's a credit to our lads that they didn't wilt in the face of this but I believe it was probably worth a couple of points (which we'd magically the winning margin) so stay at home supporters, you could have made a difference if you had travelled so maybe temper your criticism with this in mind.
Even with the poor view the class and impact of Cian Byrne was both obvious and a joy to behold and he didn't deserve to be on the losing side last night. The game turned on tiny margins, a couple of mistakes and of Offaly brilliance. It could easily have ended in a wexford win, we were good enough and I know a few supporters we met on the way home felt we 'left it behind' but Offaly were really good too and while disappointed (my eldest was in tears) I don't begrudge them the victory which given what I understand is a very small player/club base is even all the more remarkable.
For Wexford well, consistency is massively important so reaching the final 2 years running is noteworthy in itself. A trophy last night have been brilliant, the buzz today would have warmed all our hearts and I'd loved for my boys to have experienced this but being competitive and developing players is what this grade is about. The challenge is to do it again next year and for us to transition players from the squad to the senior ranks now. If Keith and the lads or up for it I would argue they are left in place, let them continue with their development and maturing as managers and coaches." I think so too. I shook his hand after the game and said to him I thought he had a good year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 21:41:00
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Replying To StoreysTash: "That was disappointing and while you can't fault the effort of the players it was one we psychologically left behind us. We did better with Offaly at 15 than at 14. I was watching in the early hours here on a buffering stream and I feel the tactic of short puck outs only to be hunted down time and again contributed to our downfall. It appeared so predictable that Offaly dropped back and knew 1-2 forwards would eventually force a turnover or a mistake. All our problems seemed to be because the Offaly half back line were able to bypass our sweeper. Sweepers have been proven to not work at the top level, a better strategy is to cut out the supply and work like dogs out the field. Unless in the ground it looked different, we lost our shape once we went down to 14. Psychologically, Wexford think it will happen when a man up, oppositions seem to make it happen. So disappointing and it looked like Offaly had huge support whereas Wexford had a handful. If Wexford supporters won't even go to Carlow for a match, where do they want every match to be? Great supporters? MYTHBUSTED." I've been to nearly every game this year, well every game bar the Dublin one, and you'd nearly recognise all the regular lads this season to see there's so few of them.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 21:42:44
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Replying To Formertownie: "Hugely disappointed with last night . Where we tried hard and fought to the end . It always looked a bit away . I thought offaly were that bit slicker ,cuter and their scores come a lot easier Screeney Jesus lads took some scores you would pay to see on there own . Any time we got momentum they broke it with some exceptional inspirational scores . They raised their supporters voices who on the night surely gave them a huge advantage . Was expecting a mich larger wexford contingent . Can understand why we kept extra men back as in fairness the pace and accuracy of the offaly forwards were always a huge threat they used the ball very well and picked out free men on several occasions regardless of our extra men back . Short puck outs being our strategy prob cost us 4 or 5 points by over playing it . Saying that carrying the ball into traffic with no one to offload too before we each our own 65 ? Options to offload were minimal to say the least . Was that our tactical error or Offalys good prep work done on us and had and stuck to their game plan ? Let them run turn them over take our points keep us pinned back . Was strange in a wexfird game especially at underage we did nt any stage hit the full forward line with high ball . Especially when we were getting into trouble time and again coming out with shirt puck out . Shamey was nt used as full forward really and hit little impact further out the field. Sure cillizn and luke would have relished breaking ball in or around the 21 or square . Not taking anything away from our lads as they are a good team but offaly looked to have the edge on us in the skill level especially in the scoring zones which ultimately win them the game well matched in every other aspect . The jeering booing whilst frees been taken is the most disgusting and inexcusable behaviour that can be witnessed at a gaa game . Anyone at the game will know what I m talking about and whom the behaviour belongs too . Broken hearted today but we are still Wexford and always will be ." I thought Offaly looked a little better than us all year and had them as slight favourites going up there. The crowd would've helped them too. We still could've won it at the end, but being is we didn't. Again. Sorry to be repeating myself, and a couple of other posters on this, but there has to be some psychological barrier we need to overcome!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 21:45:12
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Replying To Frontier1000: "Few thoughts on yesterday's match as a neutral - Similiar to the AI semi final vs Tipp a few years back this was definitely a winnable game for Wexford. Like that game Wexford failed to use the extra man and rather than using the extra man and playing it short up the field, ye hit 50-50 balls long which made it relatively easy for the Offaly backs. Every time ye ran at pace, Offaly were panicking and fouled ye. If you did more of that you would have won. - The size gap between Wexford and Offaly was definitely noticeable. Wexford were physically bigger and I thought that Offaly went down very easily all evening. They weren't as organized as Offaly though and it eventually cost ye. - The biggest positive for Wexford is that there is some very talented players coming through. Cian Byrne was brilliant and the best player on the field, closely followed by the No. 7. Was Oisin Pepper injured. I thought he'd play a starring role for ye this year?" All the Offaly lads around me thought we were a big team too. Unfortunately some of our better bigger lads against Kilkenny didn't have the same impact. I disagree about the running though. Offaly kept turning us over in the middle 3rd in the 2nd half and broke forward at speed, resulting in scores and scorable frees that Screeney didn't miss any of bar one. A super skilful young player hopefully he sticks at it.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 21:48:48
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Replying To Frontier1000: "Few thoughts on yesterday's match as a neutral - Similiar to the AI semi final vs Tipp a few years back this was definitely a winnable game for Wexford. Like that game Wexford failed to use the extra man and rather than using the extra man and playing it short up the field, ye hit 50-50 balls long which made it relatively easy for the Offaly backs. Every time ye ran at pace, Offaly were panicking and fouled ye. If you did more of that you would have won. - The size gap between Wexford and Offaly was definitely noticeable. Wexford were physically bigger and I thought that Offaly went down very easily all evening. They weren't as organized as Offaly though and it eventually cost ye. - The biggest positive for Wexford is that there is some very talented players coming through. Cian Byrne was brilliant and the best player on the field, closely followed by the No. 7. Was Oisin Pepper injured. I thought he'd play a starring role for ye this year?" All the Offaly lads around me thought we were a big team too. Unfortunately some of our better bigger lads against Kilkenny didn't have the same impact. I disagree about the running though, although usually I'd agree we look better playing that way, particularlyat Senior where our only highfielder is Lee Chin . Offaly kept turning us over in the middle 3rd as our backs tried shortpassing or running the ball out in the 2nd half and broke forward at speed, resulting in scores and scorable frees that Screeney didn't miss any of bar one. A super skilful young player hopefully he sticks at it.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 21:51:04
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Replying To Yellow: "I feel if we have won last night and put in a good performance in the All Ireland final then we would have five or six lads who would make it to senior out of that team. now I feel it will be only one or two and the rest will just disappear like so many really good U20s over the years. We have left so many behind in the past decade and it might be a long time before we are in another final.
I think if we had won last night Rossiter would have been primed fro the senior job - but his tactics were poor last night and he showed an inability to use the extra man wisely. Plus his right hand Rory Jacob is clearly not doing a good job at Peters who had a poor season - so is probably way out of his depth" Thought Rossiter did well. He put our extra man in the forwards later in the game and our backs played no ball there, and was Mahon carrying an injury he kept pucking the ball to the halfway line when he didn't go short, where 5, five, Offaly lads were massed waiting for it.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 21:53:15
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Replying To Afinestick: "I'd agree with playing him against Kilkenny . We have nothing to lose and he is the best freetaker available. Can't see him being drafted into start unfortunately though. On another note what is gone wrong with our support base lads? If we cant turn up in big numbers for a Leinster final in Carlow when will we" Lads are sick of narrow defeats I guess. But they are contributing to the problem. Imagine if half that crowd were roaring our lads on in the closing stages last night? Like the Offaly fans or Clares fans in Semple last year? 2 2 point defeats in front of very few Wexford fans.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 21:55:57
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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin: "Savage, if not a small but frustrating, game last night. Adam Screeney v Cian Bryne was a battle of two of the best hurlers in the country at this age (crazy when you think Screeney would still be minor under the old ages). Cian Bryne and Roche two best, Conor Foley at times but still expected a small bit more from him but was the best of the senior lads. Cillian Byrne looks a good prospect too for a young lads, had flashes. A overall positive year for the u20s. But it was scary how similar to the seniors form the last few years it's was. Kinda showed up the shortcomings of Wexford as whole ATM, they lost to Galway, Dublin and Offaly this year, struggled over the line v Westmeath but beat Kilkenny twice to save the year. Didnt know how to play against 14, didnt win too much primary ball feom puckouts despite being a nice bit bigger than a very young Offaly team and were slow to counteract any Offaly chnages. If that doesnt sum up our senior team over the last 5 years then I don't know what does. Thats the negatives done but still Doesn't take away from a super Offaly team and a right good game too, they have some right good hurlers who are only going to get better at this age over the next 2 years and at senior level down the line. I'd give Cian Bryne a go at senior now while he's in top form and confident. I'd love for him to play the Westmeath game to bank some senior minutes for Kilkenny game but what can you do. Super free taker and very accurate and hardworking from play too." Tbh Conor Foley was one of the lads who didnt play that well. He's only young and will hopefully learn to be more composed as he gets more experienced.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 21:58:34
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Some people just love to complain no matter what, I don't think we should look back at the game that negatively. Assuming there's always a winner, you're going to lose half of your 50/50 games. We hit 0-12 from play, they hit 1-11; we created 33 scoring chances, they created 32; we hit 10 wides, they hit 8. You can't really blame inaccuracy as the reason why Wexford lost, the game was decided by very fine margins and hitting two wides more than the opposition isn't exactly all that bad by Wexford's recent standards.
People also tend to over-react to wins and losses. For those saying that Keith Rossiter blotted his copybook last night and that maybe only two of the starting XV last night might make into Senior Intercounty players, I doubt they'd be saying that had Wexford won. The same goes for last week; no-one would have been lauding this team had they lost by two points to Kilkenny. Plus players aren't machines, they are allowed to have off days, especially if they're young and inexperienced. Conor Foley wasn't that great against Kilkenny but was one of Wexford's best hurlers last night; people shouldn't judge players definitively based on a limited number of performances.
And I think people can be too quick to take a Wexford-centric view of things; for as much as you can say Wexford lost it, you could equally say Offaly won it. When Offaly went down to 14, their half-forward line came alive in terms of winning primary possession and helped them to regain a foothold in attack; there's nothing a sweeper can do about that. And for those criticising our use of the ball, the best way to use a spare man in defence is to deploy a running game. But the Offaly half-back line had swamped our half-forward line so running the ball was just like running straight into a brick wall. Besides, I think people are over-stating how much we turned over the ball when a man up, I felt like most of the ball was going into the corners towards Cillian Byrne and Luke Murphy (Who did both have good games).
Long story short, there are a lot of good hurlers on that Wexford team (And on that Offaly team), both sides were very dogged, and ultimately someone had to lose. No need to over-react, we're not that far away with this crop of U20 hurlers (Or last year's for the matter). The 22yos, 23yos, and the 24yos are the real problem right now" Good post
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 21:59:24
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Replying To Lockerroomboy: "If the Offaly lad wasn't sent off, Wexford would have won" Maybe so.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 22:02:01
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Replying To Formertownie: " Replying To ExiledInWex: "[quote=Formertownie: "[quote=StoreysTash: "On another note what is gone wrong with our support base lads? If we cant turn up in big numbers for a Leinster final in Carlow when will we Afinestick
I was trying to work that out as well. I remember 2013-2015 the u21 finals, huge Wexford crowds even at finals in Thurles. Looked more like 8-1 Offaly to Wexford when they zoomed to the crowd during the game. Most of Wexford is 1hr to Carlow is it not? Mainly closer than many parts of Offaly. Crowd is worth a point or two in every match, even shouting for frees, cheering team on and that was the scoring difference.
Nobody in Thurles last year for AI Quarter final which was my last Wexford game before travelling and support has got worse since? A shame with some good hurlers coming through." Could be the fact modern times and instant success . Too many soul destroying losses On occasion wexford throwing in the towel Financial burden on families. school night Players training on same nights as u20 matches and dont want to miss training with championship approaching Work commitments Promotion and incentives by co board to attend games Mentors the same with young kids who would normally go Soccer underage continuing at present midweek games Negativity towards the wexford teams Naive complacency thinking we d win and make an all ireland . Can understand Offalys new found passion after languishing in lower tier for few years now and feel they are on the up again whilst we are clinging on at present and need something to kick us back into life . 2019 semi final left a scar we have nt fully recovered from yet . We are not far off but we do need something to push us on . Last night a win might just have done that . But alas it was nt to be i. We are a rut need to get through it abd quickly maybe this time 2 weeks we be elated or deflated surely we deserve a break keep the faith we don't have a choice but fight to the end ." Excuses. The first 10 of those apply to Offaly as well. Wexford had better days in the last 10 years than Offaly have had this millennium. Was it not a school night in Offaly as well? Offaly have had a hundred worse losses than Wexford had. Financial burden from all the other Wexford games nobody has gone to? That rut will get worse if players decide "why bother, nobody supports us anyway". I thought last night Wexford would have a massive support, it was in Carlow like not Cork or Thurles which are always bandied out as excuses for not going."]I was there and in Thurles last year . I m at a loss to why they don't travel. I do find sometimes I ask myself why I go I ve been going for too long to remember not every game but enough to know the difference between excuses and reasons . Think in last 10 years we ve seen some abject performances. One stands to mind most of all in Cork v clare qualifier 1/4 final was the closest I ever came to leaving a game at half time I thought we showed nothing and cared less I also then thought of the effort the lads put in over the year and said who am I to turn my back on my own . . 2nd half was better . Not everyone is die hard that's a fact every county has their die hards and the bandwagoners . I merely trying to get my head around it . I d guess the promotional aspect of this Offaly team have done a good job they ve certainly had great moments in last few years why would nt they draw a huge crowd with the success and future looking goid for this bunch Side note one player also won an all ireland football u20 couple years ago too with offaly and played last night too name eludes me The dual player Is dead in our intercounty set up after u13s"]Conor Murphy played for our u20 footballers last year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 22:05:22
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Replying To Yellow: "The dust has settled a bit on yesterday's match. It was an absolute cracker with two great teams
Well done to all involved
2nd best in Leinster again is no shame with so many good teams - great job by players and management
The senior round robin will be good next year with Offaly back" I wouldn't be surprised if Carlow beat them.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15762 - 18/05/2023 22:06:11
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Replying To Yellow: "The dust has settled a bit on yesterday's match. It was an absolute cracker with two great teams
Well done to all involved
2nd best in Leinster again is no shame with so many good teams - great job by players and management
The senior round robin will be good next year with Offaly back" Yeah great … "The senior round robin will be good next year with Offaly back". Like they're already as good as there.
If Westmeath beat Wexford this weekend (draw last year if I recall) then you might get your wish to play Offaly next year … in the Joe McDonagh that is.
Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1566 - 18/05/2023 22:23:49
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Replying To Yellow: "Absolutely gutted to lose to a 14 man Offaly. Why wasn't JJ Twamley brought on? Same old story. Different team same result. Lose lose lose every year - we always think this year will be different and it never is. Poor tactics from the line did not use the extra man well. We threw it away as it was there for the taking if we kept cool heads" Twamley came on at HT scored a good point.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 19/05/2023 02:55:33
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Replying To StoreysTash: "That was disappointing and while you can't fault the effort of the players it was one we psychologically left behind us. We did better with Offaly at 15 than at 14. I was watching in the early hours here on a buffering stream and I feel the tactic of short puck outs only to be hunted down time and again contributed to our downfall. It appeared so predictable that Offaly dropped back and knew 1-2 forwards would eventually force a turnover or a mistake. All our problems seemed to be because the Offaly half back line were able to bypass our sweeper. Sweepers have been proven to not work at the top level, a better strategy is to cut out the supply and work like dogs out the field. Unless in the ground it looked different, we lost our shape once we went down to 14. Psychologically, Wexford think it will happen when a man up, oppositions seem to make it happen. So disappointing and it looked like Offaly had huge support whereas Wexford had a handful. If Wexford supporters won't even go to Carlow for a match, where do they want every match to be? Great supporters? MYTHBUSTED." While our support was disappointing the following this offaly team get is abnormally high, completely outnumbered us last night and Clare and Tipp in u17 AI semi finals last year, they've a bandwagon like our seniors had in 2019, their seniors played Kildare in Portlaoise in Div 2 league final massive game with promotion on the line and Kildare had them outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 and only 3k in attendance.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 19/05/2023 03:01:48
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Replying To Yellow: "I feel if we have won last night and put in a good performance in the All Ireland final then we would have five or six lads who would make it to senior out of that team. now I feel it will be only one or two and the rest will just disappear like so many really good U20s over the years. We have left so many behind in the past decade and it might be a long time before we are in another final.
I think if we had won last night Rossiter would have been primed fro the senior job - but his tactics were poor last night and he showed an inability to use the extra man wisely. Plus his right hand Rory Jacob is clearly not doing a good job at Peters who had a poor season - so is probably way out of his depth" Why would a 1 or 2 point win mean 5 and 6 graduate to Senior and 1 or 2 point loss only 1 or 2 graduate?daft logic in my opinion. I've said for a few years the u21 teams that lost consecutive Leinster finals in 2010&11 contributed just as much at Senior as the 3 in a row 2013-15, off the 2010&11 teams we got Fanning, O'Hanlon,Shaun Murphy, Harry Kehoe, McGovern & Morris while Willie Devereux, Eoin Moore, Shore, Tomkins, James Breen & Podge Doran contributed too, I think there's plenty of talent in this u20 team and last year's too, challenge now is that as many as possible to drive on at Senior.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 19/05/2023 03:11:25
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Replying To Afinestick: "I hope you are wrong on the 1 or 2 lads. This is a good crop of young lads and I still think there is at least 5 or 6 could hurl senior for Wexford if they put the work in. Im hoping Rossiter and Jacob will learn from last night and will make sure we can cope better with the extra man if it happens again. Who is still underage next year? I know Simon Roche , Cillian Byrne and Sean Rowley still have 2 years under 20." Dylan Purcell 2 more years at u20 too. Luke Murphy, Whelan, Darragh Kehoe 1 more year.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 19/05/2023 03:13:25
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Some people just love to complain no matter what, I don't think we should look back at the game that negatively. Assuming there's always a winner, you're going to lose half of your 50/50 games. We hit 0-12 from play, they hit 1-11; we created 33 scoring chances, they created 32; we hit 10 wides, they hit 8. You can't really blame inaccuracy as the reason why Wexford lost, the game was decided by very fine margins and hitting two wides more than the opposition isn't exactly all that bad by Wexford's recent standards.
People also tend to over-react to wins and losses. For those saying that Keith Rossiter blotted his copybook last night and that maybe only two of the starting XV last night might make into Senior Intercounty players, I doubt they'd be saying that had Wexford won. The same goes for last week; no-one would have been lauding this team had they lost by two points to Kilkenny. Plus players aren't machines, they are allowed to have off days, especially if they're young and inexperienced. Conor Foley wasn't that great against Kilkenny but was one of Wexford's best hurlers last night; people shouldn't judge players definitively based on a limited number of performances.
And I think people can be too quick to take a Wexford-centric view of things; for as much as you can say Wexford lost it, you could equally say Offaly won it. When Offaly went down to 14, their half-forward line came alive in terms of winning primary possession and helped them to regain a foothold in attack; there's nothing a sweeper can do about that. And for those criticising our use of the ball, the best way to use a spare man in defence is to deploy a running game. But the Offaly half-back line had swamped our half-forward line so running the ball was just like running straight into a brick wall. Besides, I think people are over-stating how much we turned over the ball when a man up, I felt like most of the ball was going into the corners towards Cillian Byrne and Luke Murphy (Who did both have good games).
Long story short, there are a lot of good hurlers on that Wexford team (And on that Offaly team), both sides were very dogged, and ultimately someone had to lose. No need to over-react, we're not that far away with this crop of U20 hurlers (Or last year's for the matter). The 22yos, 23yos, and the 24yos are the real problem right now" Absolutely beacon of common sense and reality right there.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 19/05/2023 03:16:46
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