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Very interesting this morning on the OffTheBall with Noel Connors talking about Waterford.
IMHO, Waterford and Wexford have a lot in common ... hurling county identity, at the lower end of the top hurling table and craving success.
Anyway, he was pointing out the lack of underage success and lack of pipeline.
Since 2016 when Waterford won the u-21, they haven't won 1 game at that age grade since, their minors since then have had a 19% win rate also and that Ballygunner were handily beating a lot of Waterford club teams by over 10 points.
Ultimately, he said that when Waterford had the likes of Mullane, Eoin Kelly, Shanahan, Tony Browne, that they really only 17/18 players at inter county level and didn't have that wider depth needed to win an Ireland.
He said you need 35 lads at inter county level pushing for places and that makes the standard even higher.
Punter72007 (Wexford) - Posts: 318 - 15/05/2023 11:53:22
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Replying To Viking66: "He hasn't really had any Championship and not much League gametime tbh. He played the whole game against Clare and got most of his frees and 65s, but got nearly no ball played inside to him to score from play as we were over run. He scored a goal against Westmeath when he came on at half time and played ok. He didn't play at all against Cork, Galway or Limerick.
He was playing ok in Birr in the Walsh Cup before getting injured off after 50 or so minutes. Don't think he scored from play but he got 9 frees as the Offaly backs were fouling alot to prevent scores from open play. He played very well against Laois in the Walsh Cup opener, not sure he missed any frees and scored a few from play. He came on in the 2nd half against Kilkenny in the Park but looked like he still wasn't fully fit after going off against Offaly. Got most of his frees think he missed 1 scoreable one.
He's still only 23 this year. He played well for DCU the last couple of years in the handful of their games I saw on TV. Got some nice scores from play and linked up attacking play well. It's his habit of marking space when opponents are coming out short with the ball is his main problem. And he's not a huge lad so isn't the best at winning long puckouts in his direction. But then those would be criticisms that Galway folk had of Niland and he scored 6 or 7 from play against us by taking up those little pockets of space and getting fed the ball by the bigger lads who could win it." Thanks Viking. Comprehensive answer to my question.
Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 453 - 15/05/2023 14:14:41
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Replying To Punter72007: "Very interesting this morning on the OffTheBall with Noel Connors talking about Waterford.
IMHO, Waterford and Wexford have a lot in common ... hurling county identity, at the lower end of the top hurling table and craving success.
Anyway, he was pointing out the lack of underage success and lack of pipeline.
Since 2016 when Waterford won the u-21, they haven't won 1 game at that age grade since, their minors since then have had a 19% win rate also and that Ballygunner were handily beating a lot of Waterford club teams by over 10 points.
Ultimately, he said that when Waterford had the likes of Mullane, Eoin Kelly, Shanahan, Tony Browne, that they really only 17/18 players at inter county level and didn't have that wider depth needed to win an Ireland.
He said you need 35 lads at inter county level pushing for places and that makes the standard even higher." We have won a good few games at u20/1 since 2016 reaching a few provincial finals along the way. We also won a Leinster minor in 2019. I'm not as worried about us as I would be about them if I was from there.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15712 - 15/05/2023 14:30:17
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Replying To Viking66: "We have won a good few games at u20/1 since 2016 reaching a few provincial finals along the way. We also won a Leinster minor in 2019. I'm not as worried about us as I would be about them if I was from there." We had a 3 year poor spell at u-20/21 2019-2021 but before and after that we've been competitive enough most years over the last decade.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 15/05/2023 14:40:22
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Massive game Wednesday night. Would be a huge boost for hurling in the county to win a provincial title and reach an All Ireland final at this grade. Listened to Wexford Hurling Podcast really whet the appetite . Michael Verney sounds very confident of an Offaly win . I think we are in for a huge battle but our lads showed against Kilkenny they are well up for a fight . I see there is limited amount of tickets remaining on sale. The atmosphere should be electric really looking forward to it now!
Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 15/05/2023 16:13:34
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Replying To Afinestick: "Massive game Wednesday night. Would be a huge boost for hurling in the county to win a provincial title and reach an All Ireland final at this grade. Listened to Wexford Hurling Podcast really whet the appetite . Michael Verney sounds very confident of an Offaly win . I think we are in for a huge battle but our lads showed against Kilkenny they are well up for a fight . I see there is limited amount of tickets remaining on sale. The atmosphere should be electric really looking forward to it now!" Me too! It's a nice tight little ground the atmosphere will be great if it's tight coming down the home straight!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15712 - 15/05/2023 17:00:01
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Replying To Viking66: "That is for sure. If he played against Dublin the last day and got 6 of the 9 missed frees we had would Dublin have scored 4 or more points on account of him being on the pitch?" Did we really miss 9 frees? I remember Chin missing one near me on the hogan stand side in the first half and miss hit one from around midfield on the other side in the first half. Were most of the missed frees hit and hope ones from distance? Chin clearly wasn't comfortable taking the long ones. I wonder if our free taking woes are a bit over exaggerated compared to other counties? I've never seen stats backing this up, Byrnes and his illegal free taking technique seem to land a lot of long distance ones for Limerick for sure. Fanning in his day seemed to miss a lot more than he scored!
On Banville, I thought he seemed a long way off the pace v Clare, even compared to Higgins that day, missed a couple of handy frees from memory too. He's slow and obviously small. By all means give him a chance against Westmeath but in a 2 man full forward line v KK I don't think he would make much impact.
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 402 - 16/05/2023 07:28:05
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Replying To Timbertony: "Did we really miss 9 frees? I remember Chin missing one near me on the hogan stand side in the first half and miss hit one from around midfield on the other side in the first half. Were most of the missed frees hit and hope ones from distance? Chin clearly wasn't comfortable taking the long ones. I wonder if our free taking woes are a bit over exaggerated compared to other counties? I've never seen stats backing this up, Byrnes and his illegal free taking technique seem to land a lot of long distance ones for Limerick for sure. Fanning in his day seemed to miss a lot more than he scored!
On Banville, I thought he seemed a long way off the pace v Clare, even compared to Higgins that day, missed a couple of handy frees from memory too. He's slow and obviously small. By all means give him a chance against Westmeath but in a 2 man full forward line v KK I don't think he would make much impact." Think we got 9 out of 14, Chin missed 3 max 4, Rory missed 1 max 2, to sum up that day in a nutshell Burke missed 1 free which lead to the goal.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 16/05/2023 10:39:49
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If you go into Twitter and find "Des Mythen", you will get the stat sheet for the Dublin Wexford game.
Here's the Wexford numbers:
Points - 23. (14 from play and 9 from frees/65)
Wides - 19. (15 from play and 4 from frees/65)
Saves - 2. (2 saves from play)
Short - 4. (3 from play and 1 from free/65)
64% rate of success from frees/65's.
In summary, 5 frees/65's missed.
Punter72007 (Wexford) - Posts: 318 - 16/05/2023 11:23:21
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Replying To Timbertony: "Did we really miss 9 frees? I remember Chin missing one near me on the hogan stand side in the first half and miss hit one from around midfield on the other side in the first half. Were most of the missed frees hit and hope ones from distance? Chin clearly wasn't comfortable taking the long ones. I wonder if our free taking woes are a bit over exaggerated compared to other counties? I've never seen stats backing this up, Byrnes and his illegal free taking technique seem to land a lot of long distance ones for Limerick for sure. Fanning in his day seemed to miss a lot more than he scored!
On Banville, I thought he seemed a long way off the pace v Clare, even compared to Higgins that day, missed a couple of handy frees from memory too. He's slow and obviously small. By all means give him a chance against Westmeath but in a 2 man full forward line v KK I don't think he would make much impact." Sorry Tony it might not have been 9 wides from frees. But I think we dropped a couple short and wasn't there a missed 65? I agree 100% Banville isn't fast or big, but how many points would that cost us? Would he score from play if given the right ball in space?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15712 - 16/05/2023 12:21:24
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Replying To Punter72007: "If you go into Twitter and find "Des Mythen", you will get the stat sheet for the Dublin Wexford game.
Here's the Wexford numbers:
Points - 23. (14 from play and 9 from frees/65)
Wides - 19. (15 from play and 4 from frees/65)
Saves - 2. (2 saves from play)
Short - 4. (3 from play and 1 from free/65)
64% rate of success from frees/65's.
In summary, 5 frees/65's missed." Seemed worse than that on the frees/65s in real time. I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it back though. Even so 64% conversion rate is still poor by intercounty standards.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15712 - 16/05/2023 12:30:14
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Replying To Timbertony: "Did we really miss 9 frees? I remember Chin missing one near me on the hogan stand side in the first half and miss hit one from around midfield on the other side in the first half. Were most of the missed frees hit and hope ones from distance? Chin clearly wasn't comfortable taking the long ones. I wonder if our free taking woes are a bit over exaggerated compared to other counties? I've never seen stats backing this up, Byrnes and his illegal free taking technique seem to land a lot of long distance ones for Limerick for sure. Fanning in his day seemed to miss a lot more than he scored!
On Banville, I thought he seemed a long way off the pace v Clare, even compared to Higgins that day, missed a couple of handy frees from memory too. He's slow and obviously small. By all means give him a chance against Westmeath but in a 2 man full forward line v KK I don't think he would make much impact." Hopefully Chin would be fitter come the Kilkenny game and better able for the frees. A shoulder injury would have to affect your freetaking.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15712 - 16/05/2023 12:31:34
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Replying To Viking66: "Seemed worse than that on the frees/65s in real time. I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it back though. Even so 64% conversion rate is still poor by intercounty standards." That's poor by club standards…I have a better conversion rate than that and I'm useless. Not even being facetious in saying that. That's shocking when you see it written down.
Fulgrim (Wexford) - Posts: 267 - 16/05/2023 12:38:23
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Replying To Fulgrim: "That's poor by club standards…I have a better conversion rate than that and I'm useless. Not even being facetious in saying that. That's shocking when you see it written down." Chin was dodgy enough starting on the frees in 2018 but he's generally been good on them in championship since 2019, I only remember 2 off days off hand which were Salthill in 2019 and the most recent game, and in fairness mitigation in both instances with a crazy wind in 2019 (think both teams ended with about 15 wides) and the shoulder injury the last day.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 16/05/2023 13:29:37
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Wexford to beat Westmeath by 14 points.
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 16/05/2023 13:44:32
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Sounds like Damien won't make Sunday, team I'd go with in that scenario.
Lawlor
S Reck
Ryan
Devitt
Donohoe
O'Hanlon
Carty
K Foley
Dunbar
Jacko
Chin
O Foley
ROC
Conor Mc
Liam Og
If Ryan doesn't make it bring in Dee drop Kevin Foley to HB line, O'Hanlon at Full back, if Chin isn't ready any of Hearne, McGuckin or Richie Lawlor.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 16/05/2023 15:59:08
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https://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/gaa/1171168/mixed-news-for-offaly-u-20s-as-screeney-and-kavanagh-passed-fit-but-miller-ruled-out.html
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15712 - 16/05/2023 16:56:23
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Sounds like Damien won't make Sunday, team I'd go with in that scenario.
Lawlor
S Reck
Ryan
Devitt
Donohoe
O'Hanlon
Carty
K Foley
Dunbar
Jacko
Chin
O Foley
ROC
Conor Mc
Liam Og
If Ryan doesn't make it bring in Dee drop Kevin Foley to HB line, O'Hanlon at Full back, if Chin isn't ready any of Hearne, McGuckin or Richie Lawlor." First time ever I'd go exactly the same as someone else's team!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15712 - 16/05/2023 16:58:13
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Sounds like Damien won't make Sunday, team I'd go with in that scenario.
Lawlor
S Reck
Ryan
Devitt
Donohoe
O'Hanlon
Carty
K Foley
Dunbar
Jacko
Chin
O Foley
ROC
Conor Mc
Liam Og
If Ryan doesn't make it bring in Dee drop Kevin Foley to HB line, O'Hanlon at Full back, if Chin isn't ready any of Hearne, McGuckin or Richie Lawlor." Why would you not play Dee TerribleFootwork. Big mistake not starting or even bringing him on when Jippo and Reck hobbled off. I know we should beat Westmeath with something to spare but we tend to struggle against lower rated teams. We simply must win this match and win well. Would agree with most of your team selection but I would play Dee instead of Carty. Of course ongoing injuries if they still exist will force Egan to switch positions and personnel.
Verdict-- wexford to win by 11 points.
Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 453 - 16/05/2023 17:35:36
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Sounds like Damien won't make Sunday, team I'd go with in that scenario.
Lawlor
S Reck
Ryan
Devitt
Donohoe
O'Hanlon
Carty
K Foley
Dunbar
Jacko
Chin
O Foley
ROC
Conor Mc
Liam Og
If Ryan doesn't make it bring in Dee drop Kevin Foley to HB line, O'Hanlon at Full back, if Chin isn't ready any of Hearne, McGuckin or Richie Lawlor." Would like to see us go with this team aswell .
Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 16/05/2023 18:51:05
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