Replying To legendzxix:  "Sunday 4 December

Leinster club SFC final
The Downs (Westmeath) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 4.30pm

Leinster club SHC final
Ballyhale Shamrocks (Kilkenny) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 2.30pm

The Leinster Council are expecting 2 games in one day from any dual player."

Replying To legendzxix:  "Sunday 4 December

Leinster club SFC final
The Downs (Westmeath) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 4.30pm

Leinster club SHC final
Ballyhale Shamrocks (Kilkenny) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 2.30pm

The Leinster Council are expecting 2 games in one day from any dual player."

Replying To legendzxix:  "Sunday 4 December

Leinster club SFC final
The Downs (Westmeath) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 4.30pm

Leinster club SHC final
Ballyhale Shamrocks (Kilkenny) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 2.30pm

The Leinster Council are expecting 2 games in one day from any dual player."

Replying To legendzxix:  "Sunday 4 December

Leinster club SFC final
The Downs (Westmeath) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 4.30pm

Leinster club SHC final
Ballyhale Shamrocks (Kilkenny) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 2.30pm

The Leinster Council are expecting 2 games in one day from any dual player."

Replying To Viking66:  "And you still haven't answered the question in my last post. Why should around 2200 clubs have to be told how many, or few, club championship games or weekends they are allowed in order to suit a handful of elite clubs?"

Replying To legendzxix:  "In short they don't. If a county cannot complete their club championship in the time for the provincial championship, simply decline the option of sending a representative to the provincial championship or send the county league winner."

Replying To Pikeman96:  "I think the fact that you posted this just before 8 p.m. last night shows how out of touch you are.

Seems highly likely you didn't know there's just one dual player with the Crokes teams. Also, you didn't know that a compromise solution had already been reached by that time, to the satisfaction of all involved."

Replying To legendzxix:  "You've missed my point. At provincial level, should it be accepted that dual clubs might have to play on the same weekend? If there can be agreement on that, the provincial championships can be played on a shorter timescale.

Weekend 1. Hurling Provincial Preliminary Round
Weekend 2. Hurling Provincial Quarter-finals and Football Provincial Preliminary Round.
Weekend 3. Hurling Provincial Semi-finals and Football Provincial Quarter-finals.
Weekend 4. Hurling Provincial Final and Football Provincial Semi-finals
Weekend 5. Football Provincial Final
Weekend 6. Hurling AI Semi-finals
Weekend 7. Football AI Semi-finals and Hurling AI Final
Weekend 8. Football AI Final

For All-Ireland finalists getting a bye to provincial semi-finals:
October
29. County Club Hurling Finals

November
05. County Club Football Finals
12. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals
19. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals, Hurling Finals
26. Provincial Club Football Finals

December
03. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals
10. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals, Football Semi-finals
17. All-Ireland Club Football Finals
Calendar year achieved. Enjoy Christmas!""

Replying To legendzxix:  "In short they don't. If a county cannot complete their club championship in the time for the provincial championship, simply decline the option of sending a representative to the provincial championship or send the county league winner."

Replying To Viking66:  "Yes but who are you to set the time for the start of the provincial championships? Why are you on this crusade to finish the AI club series by Xmas?!"

Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "That was part of the new split season plan."

Replying To Viking66:  "1) Inter-county from February to July:
There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season.

2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye.

3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September:
There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc.

4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else.

5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain.

Replying To legendzxix:  "1) Inter-county from February to July:
There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season.

2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye.

3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September:
There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc.

4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else.

5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain."]The agreed format as in place this year is intercounty from January to June with the finals at the beginning of July and club from July to December but in real terms this was impossible to achieve so the AI series is in January. If you are going to put back the AI finals by 1 month or 2 then you can't finish the club championships by December. Absolutely impossible and unreasonable to ask for in view of the extensive negotiations needed to arrive at the present compromise.
Probably the best solution was the way it was. Less intercounty action and clubs releasing players for intercounty duty a few times a year. But many people, myself included, wanted more intercounty games. And managers wanted a more professional set up in order to win which meant players spent less and less time with their clubs. These 2 pressures squeezed the club scene and led to the CPA being formed.
It's a hard job trying to fit more and more intercounty fixtures into a time that stays the same, i.e. the 12 months of the year, especially since county and club have become mutually exclusive fixture wise. I'm glad I'm not a fixer of fixtures! Probably the fairest solution is less intercounty games. There are only 32 counties involving only a handful of the country's hurlers and footballers. No need for the intercounty season to last 6 months. Run the Leagues off in 7 weeks 8 if you include a final for each division although in reality whoever finishes top of their league should win it without any need for a final, and have the championship straight knockout. But I don't want that either.

Replying To legendzxix:  "1) Inter-county from February to July:
There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season.

2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye.

3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September:
There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc.

4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else.

5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain."]Or how about go back to where it all started? Only a little more structured or organised. Run the club championships from March to July then rather than have provincial or AI club championships the winning clubs represent their county in the Intercounty championships. Run these in August and September as straight knockout.
This will solve most of people's complaints as follows-
1- playing on bad pitches in February or November/December- no adult hurling or football games in bad weather months.
2- player welfare/burnout- alot less fixtures and a good off season. No clubs to be back in training til 01 February.
3- No proper room for minor and u21 championships-
These could be run in September/ October/November with a straight knockout championship. They won't clash with exams, and the Fitzgibbon and Sigerson Cups could take place in December, January and February.
4- illegal payments to intercounty managers- there won't be any intercounty managers and expenses for travelling could be reduced by insisting only club members can manage their club team.
5- no high level GAA action in high summer months August/September- the intercounty competition will be in those months
6- uncertainty for club players over fixtures- these will be run as outlined above so there will be absolute certainty
7- richer or bigger population counties having an unfair advantage- population or wealth hasn't the same bearing on club success- look at Ballyhale.
8- standard of refereeing or in particular referees not being able to keep up with the modern intercounty game- as there will be less top level players playing in any given game the games will be that little bit slower and easier to referee. So less need to abuse referees also.
9- bandwagon county supporters- lads will tend to support their own club so crowds should be easier managed size wise come the Intercounty championships.
10- undue pressure on young children- no need for intercounty development squads etc from u11 upwards.
11- arguments like ours over how many weeks should be given over to county or club fixtures- not a problem anymore as there would be alot less games with alot more weekends to play them in!

In conclusion this isn't a serious proposal for change. Like all of us I love top level intercounty action. What the above is an exercise. To show how our collective greed for more and more top level intercounty action has caused all of the problems we complain about these days.

Replying To Viking66:  "1) Inter-county from February to July:
There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season.

2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye.

3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September:
There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc.

4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else.

5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain."]Or how about go back to where it all started? Only a little more structured or organised. Run the club championships from March to July then rather than have provincial or AI club championships the winning clubs represent their county in the Intercounty championships. Run these in August and September as straight knockout.
This will solve most of people's complaints as follows-
1- playing on bad pitches in February or November/December- no adult hurling or football games in bad weather months.
2- player welfare/burnout- alot less fixtures and a good off season. No clubs to be back in training til 01 February.
3- No proper room for minor and u21 championships-
These could be run in September/ October/November with a straight knockout championship. They won't clash with exams, and the Fitzgibbon and Sigerson Cups could take place in December, January and February.
4- illegal payments to intercounty managers- there won't be any intercounty managers and expenses for travelling could be reduced by insisting only club members can manage their club team.
5- no high level GAA action in high summer months August/September- the intercounty competition will be in those months
6- uncertainty for club players over fixtures- these will be run as outlined above so there will be absolute certainty
7- richer or bigger population counties having an unfair advantage- population or wealth hasn't the same bearing on club success- look at Ballyhale.
8- standard of refereeing or in particular referees not being able to keep up with the modern intercounty game- as there will be less top level players playing in any given game the games will be that little bit slower and easier to referee. So less need to abuse referees also.
9- bandwagon county supporters- lads will tend to support their own club so crowds should be easier managed size wise come the Intercounty championships.
10- undue pressure on young children- no need for intercounty development squads etc from u11 upwards.
11- arguments like ours over how many weeks should be given over to county or club fixtures- not a problem anymore as there would be alot less games with alot more weekends to play them in!

In conclusion this isn't a serious proposal for change. Like all of us I love top level intercounty action. What the above is an exercise. To show how our collective greed for more and more top level intercounty action has caused all of the problems we complain about these days."]That's not a serious proposition at all.

Replying To Whammo86:  "1) Inter-county from February to July:
There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season.

2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye.

3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September:
There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc.

4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else.

5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain."]Or how about go back to where it all started? Only a little more structured or organised. Run the club championships from March to July then rather than have provincial or AI club championships the winning clubs represent their county in the Intercounty championships. Run these in August and September as straight knockout.
This will solve most of people's complaints as follows-
1- playing on bad pitches in February or November/December- no adult hurling or football games in bad weather months.
2- player welfare/burnout- alot less fixtures and a good off season. No clubs to be back in training til 01 February.
3- No proper room for minor and u21 championships-
These could be run in September/ October/November with a straight knockout championship. They won't clash with exams, and the Fitzgibbon and Sigerson Cups could take place in December, January and February.
4- illegal payments to intercounty managers- there won't be any intercounty managers and expenses for travelling could be reduced by insisting only club members can manage their club team.
5- no high level GAA action in high summer months August/September- the intercounty competition will be in those months
6- uncertainty for club players over fixtures- these will be run as outlined above so there will be absolute certainty
7- richer or bigger population counties having an unfair advantage- population or wealth hasn't the same bearing on club success- look at Ballyhale.
8- standard of refereeing or in particular referees not being able to keep up with the modern intercounty game- as there will be less top level players playing in any given game the games will be that little bit slower and easier to referee. So less need to abuse referees also.
9- bandwagon county supporters- lads will tend to support their own club so crowds should be easier managed size wise come the Intercounty championships.
10- undue pressure on young children- no need for intercounty development squads etc from u11 upwards.
11- arguments like ours over how many weeks should be given over to county or club fixtures- not a problem anymore as there would be alot less games with alot more weekends to play them in!

In conclusion this isn't a serious proposal for change. Like all of us I love top level intercounty action. What the above is an exercise. To show how our collective greed for more and more top level intercounty action has caused all of the problems we complain about these days."]That's not a serious proposition at all."]No it's not. Just pointing out that most of the problems lads are complaining about have come about due to the demand for more and more intercounty games since the 90s. There are so many now that there's no room for club fixtures between them as intercounty managers won't release players during the intercounty season. And that's what's caused the AI finals to be in July and the club AI finals to be in January. There's no ideal solution to it now Whammo86.

Replying To Viking66:  "1) Inter-county from February to July:
There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season.

2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye.

3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September:
There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc.

4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else.

5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain."]Or how about go back to where it all started? Only a little more structured or organised. Run the club championships from March to July then rather than have provincial or AI club championships the winning clubs represent their county in the Intercounty championships. Run these in August and September as straight knockout.
This will solve most of people's complaints as follows-
1- playing on bad pitches in February or November/December- no adult hurling or football games in bad weather months.
2- player welfare/burnout- alot less fixtures and a good off season. No clubs to be back in training til 01 February.
3- No proper room for minor and u21 championships-
These could be run in September/ October/November with a straight knockout championship. They won't clash with exams, and the Fitzgibbon and Sigerson Cups could take place in December, January and February.
4- illegal payments to intercounty managers- there won't be any intercounty managers and expenses for travelling could be reduced by insisting only club members can manage their club team.
5- no high level GAA action in high summer months August/September- the intercounty competition will be in those months
6- uncertainty for club players over fixtures- these will be run as outlined above so there will be absolute certainty
7- richer or bigger population counties having an unfair advantage- population or wealth hasn't the same bearing on club success- look at Ballyhale.
8- standard of refereeing or in particular referees not being able to keep up with the modern intercounty game- as there will be less top level players playing in any given game the games will be that little bit slower and easier to referee. So less need to abuse referees also.
9- bandwagon county supporters- lads will tend to support their own club so crowds should be easier managed size wise come the Intercounty championships.
10- undue pressure on young children- no need for intercounty development squads etc from u11 upwards.
11- arguments like ours over how many weeks should be given over to county or club fixtures- not a problem anymore as there would be alot less games with alot more weekends to play them in!

In conclusion this isn't a serious proposal for change. Like all of us I love top level intercounty action. What the above is an exercise. To show how our collective greed for more and more top level intercounty action has caused all of the problems we complain about these days."]That's not a serious proposition at all."]No it's not. Just pointing out that most of the problems lads are complaining about have come about due to the demand for more and more intercounty games since the 90s. There are so many now that there's no room for club fixtures between them as intercounty managers won't release players during the intercounty season. And that's what's caused the AI finals to be in July and the club AI finals to be in January. There's no ideal solution to it now Whammo86."]Yeah fair enough, I get where you are coming from.

If I was in charge I would move the club provincials and All Ireland to the start of the year. Jan/Feb/March.

I'd play a tight intercounty season from April to August.

Counties able to start when their county teams are both out and not before 1st August.

Let counties play off their club championship as they want. If they start late and can't finish until November then so be it, doesn't impact on others because we're not running into the Provincials.

1 code county making an All Ireland can still play September and October. Most would be playing August, September or August to October.

Galway are used to playing their hurling championship late in the year with no Connacht club competition and it doesn't cause an issue.

The provincial and All Ireland club are the big issue and having every county expected to end their championship at the same time when they've different traditions and requirements and start at different times just doesn't make sense.