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Well, Sheehy has not started for Crokes so barring injury in the hurling will still be able to play some part if needed. As said on other thread, it is good decision and would have been unfair to change the football to another day to suit one player and one of the clubs. Thankfully, everyone seems satisfied.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2511 - 28/11/2022 21:42:12 2449027 Link 0 |
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Its not ideal. The lad in question is an impact sub for the footballers so will possibly have to play 75 odd minutes altogether. At least they have swapped the games around which should help him. And he might not have to come on for the footballers at all if the game is going KC's way. It would be a much bigger problem if KC were like many of the dual clubs down here who would have anything between 8 and 14 lads starting for the clubs hurlers and footballers. Up or down its nonsense to expect the AI series to be wrapped up before Xmas. The provincial championships started earlier this year than you proposed. In October. Yet KC still have their footballers and hurlers out on the same day. And even then there's no chance of getting the AI series completed before Xmas. The provincial series won't be finished until the weekend of the 10th December.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11695 - 28/11/2022 21:51:04 2449029 Link 1 |
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And you still haven't answered the question in my last post. Why should around 2200 clubs have to be told how many, or few, club championship games or weekends they are allowed in order to suit a handful of elite clubs?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11695 - 28/11/2022 21:53:09 2449030 Link 0 |
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I think the fact that you posted this just before 8 p.m. last night shows how out of touch you are. Seems highly likely you didn't know there's just one dual player with the Crokes teams. Also, you didn't know that a compromise solution had already been reached by that time, to the satisfaction of all involved. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2218 - 29/11/2022 10:47:11 2449038 Link 2 |
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In short they don't. If a county cannot complete their club championship in the time for the provincial championship, simply decline the option of sending a representative to the provincial championship or send the county league winner.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7808 - 29/11/2022 16:50:46 2449073 Link 1 |
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Yes. Because it really is that simple. Roll eyes emoji.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2218 - 29/11/2022 16:56:42 2449075 Link 0 |
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You've missed my point. At provincial level, should it be accepted that dual clubs might have to play on the same weekend? If there can be agreement on that, the provincial championships can be played on a shorter timescale. Weekend 1. Hurling Provincial Preliminary Round Weekend 2. Hurling Provincial Quarter-finals and Football Provincial Preliminary Round. Weekend 3. Hurling Provincial Semi-finals and Football Provincial Quarter-finals. Weekend 4. Hurling Provincial Final and Football Provincial Semi-finals Weekend 5. Football Provincial Final Weekend 6. Hurling AI Semi-finals Weekend 7. Football AI Semi-finals and Hurling AI Final Weekend 8. Football AI Final For All-Ireland finalists getting a bye to provincial semi-finals: October 29. County Club Hurling Finals November 05. County Club Football Finals 12. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals 19. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals, Hurling Finals 26. Provincial Club Football Finals December 03. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals 10. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals, Football Semi-finals 17. All-Ireland Club Football Finals Calendar year achieved. Enjoy Christmas!" legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7808 - 29/11/2022 17:15:52 2449077 Link 0 |
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You still haven't answered several points there. Firstly why the great need to finish the AI club championships by Xmas? Secondly why should any club get an advantage over other clubs on account of how well their intercounty team does? And suppose 2 teams from the same province make the AI final? Thirdly why is there the need to extend the intercounty calendar into August anyway? Fourthly if any dual club with say 12 or more starting players on both their hurling and football teams as our club has, makes the provincial championships what then? Horeswood are in the Leinster Junior hurling final and if they had of beaten Fethard in the county Intermediate football final, which many expected them to, they might very well be in the Leinster Intermediate football final also, as Fethard are. Like ourselves most of their starting hurling team also start on their football team. Fifthly in terms of player welfare you would be expecting a dual club who makes the AI series in both codes play flat to the mat more than once a week sometimes and at least once every week for at least 23 weeks in a row. These aren't professional athletes. The lads work or study during the week they don't get pampered in cryo tanks. So in conclusion I'll ask you again- are you solely interested in intercounty and elite senior club action? A big man's man as it might be called up here? Best you remember the green green grass will soon go brown with no grassroots to support it! Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11695 - 29/11/2022 19:13:33 2449087 Link 0 |
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Yes but who are you to set the time for the start of the provincial championships? Why are you on this crusade to finish the AI club series by Xmas?!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11695 - 29/11/2022 19:40:59 2449091 Link 0 |
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That was part of the new split season plan.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1379 - 30/11/2022 10:41:40 2449120 Link 0 |
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Yes but 2 things. Firstly as this year has shown even with the AI finals in July that hasn't been possible and clubs have been playing championship games pretty much week on week, and actually since June down here in Wexford. And secondly if you are going to change when the intercounty season finishes by a month, Legendzxix is proposing having the finals in August, then that's going to make it even harder to achieve. He or she has proposed reducing the number of club county championship games and clubs playing football and hurling games on the same weekend to achieve this goal. Both aren't fair on amateur club players and their clubs who remain true to the original ethos of the GAA of promoting and playing both games equally. Bottom line is there are 2200 odd clubs and only 32 counties. And club Championships have a very important county phase to them which obviously intercounty Championships don't have. Therefore intercounty Championships shouldn't take anywhere near as long to run off as club ones. I'm all for intercounty games don't get me wrong. I was going to them a long time before I ever went to see a club game. I'm personally very happy that county football and hurling teams are guaranteed more than the 1 game they were guaranteed back in the 90s when I started going. But as the intercounty setups have got more professional, in playing, managerial and promotional terms, I do feel the clubs have been getting more and more squeezed since the backdoor came in in the late 90s. And if we don't have a healthy club scene, which you would have to worry about as more and more clubs are struggling to field underage and even adult teams as the years have gone by, the general health of the whole organisation is going to suffer. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11695 - 30/11/2022 13:07:46 2449144 Link 0 |
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1) Inter-county from February to July: There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season. 2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye. 3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September: There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc. 4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else. 5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7808 - 30/11/2022 17:02:52 2449179 Link 0 |
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1) Inter-county from February to July: There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season. 2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye. 3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September: There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc. 4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else. 5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain."]The agreed format as in place this year is intercounty from January to June with the finals at the beginning of July and club from July to December but in real terms this was impossible to achieve so the AI series is in January. If you are going to put back the AI finals by 1 month or 2 then you can't finish the club championships by December. Absolutely impossible and unreasonable to ask for in view of the extensive negotiations needed to arrive at the present compromise. Probably the best solution was the way it was. Less intercounty action and clubs releasing players for intercounty duty a few times a year. But many people, myself included, wanted more intercounty games. And managers wanted a more professional set up in order to win which meant players spent less and less time with their clubs. These 2 pressures squeezed the club scene and led to the CPA being formed. It's a hard job trying to fit more and more intercounty fixtures into a time that stays the same, i.e. the 12 months of the year, especially since county and club have become mutually exclusive fixture wise. I'm glad I'm not a fixer of fixtures! Probably the fairest solution is less intercounty games. There are only 32 counties involving only a handful of the country's hurlers and footballers. No need for the intercounty season to last 6 months. Run the Leagues off in 7 weeks 8 if you include a final for each division although in reality whoever finishes top of their league should win it without any need for a final, and have the championship straight knockout. But I don't want that either. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11695 - 30/11/2022 18:52:15 2449190 Link 0 |
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1) Inter-county from February to July: There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season. 2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye. 3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September: There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc. 4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else. 5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain."]Or how about go back to where it all started? Only a little more structured or organised. Run the club championships from March to July then rather than have provincial or AI club championships the winning clubs represent their county in the Intercounty championships. Run these in August and September as straight knockout. This will solve most of people's complaints as follows- 1- playing on bad pitches in February or November/December- no adult hurling or football games in bad weather months. 2- player welfare/burnout- alot less fixtures and a good off season. No clubs to be back in training til 01 February. 3- No proper room for minor and u21 championships- These could be run in September/ October/November with a straight knockout championship. They won't clash with exams, and the Fitzgibbon and Sigerson Cups could take place in December, January and February. 4- illegal payments to intercounty managers- there won't be any intercounty managers and expenses for travelling could be reduced by insisting only club members can manage their club team. 5- no high level GAA action in high summer months August/September- the intercounty competition will be in those months 6- uncertainty for club players over fixtures- these will be run as outlined above so there will be absolute certainty 7- richer or bigger population counties having an unfair advantage- population or wealth hasn't the same bearing on club success- look at Ballyhale. 8- standard of refereeing or in particular referees not being able to keep up with the modern intercounty game- as there will be less top level players playing in any given game the games will be that little bit slower and easier to referee. So less need to abuse referees also. 9- bandwagon county supporters- lads will tend to support their own club so crowds should be easier managed size wise come the Intercounty championships. 10- undue pressure on young children- no need for intercounty development squads etc from u11 upwards. 11- arguments like ours over how many weeks should be given over to county or club fixtures- not a problem anymore as there would be alot less games with alot more weekends to play them in! In conclusion this isn't a serious proposal for change. Like all of us I love top level intercounty action. What the above is an exercise. To show how our collective greed for more and more top level intercounty action has caused all of the problems we complain about these days. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11695 - 30/11/2022 20:14:16 2449196 Link 0 |
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1) Inter-county from February to July: There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season. 2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye. 3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September: There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc. 4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else. 5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain."]Or how about go back to where it all started? Only a little more structured or organised. Run the club championships from March to July then rather than have provincial or AI club championships the winning clubs represent their county in the Intercounty championships. Run these in August and September as straight knockout. This will solve most of people's complaints as follows- 1- playing on bad pitches in February or November/December- no adult hurling or football games in bad weather months. 2- player welfare/burnout- alot less fixtures and a good off season. No clubs to be back in training til 01 February. 3- No proper room for minor and u21 championships- These could be run in September/ October/November with a straight knockout championship. They won't clash with exams, and the Fitzgibbon and Sigerson Cups could take place in December, January and February. 4- illegal payments to intercounty managers- there won't be any intercounty managers and expenses for travelling could be reduced by insisting only club members can manage their club team. 5- no high level GAA action in high summer months August/September- the intercounty competition will be in those months 6- uncertainty for club players over fixtures- these will be run as outlined above so there will be absolute certainty 7- richer or bigger population counties having an unfair advantage- population or wealth hasn't the same bearing on club success- look at Ballyhale. 8- standard of refereeing or in particular referees not being able to keep up with the modern intercounty game- as there will be less top level players playing in any given game the games will be that little bit slower and easier to referee. So less need to abuse referees also. 9- bandwagon county supporters- lads will tend to support their own club so crowds should be easier managed size wise come the Intercounty championships. 10- undue pressure on young children- no need for intercounty development squads etc from u11 upwards. 11- arguments like ours over how many weeks should be given over to county or club fixtures- not a problem anymore as there would be alot less games with alot more weekends to play them in! In conclusion this isn't a serious proposal for change. Like all of us I love top level intercounty action. What the above is an exercise. To show how our collective greed for more and more top level intercounty action has caused all of the problems we complain about these days."]That's not a serious proposition at all. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4194 - 01/12/2022 12:13:25 2449224 Link 0 |
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1) Inter-county from February to July: There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season. 2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye. 3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September: There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc. 4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else. 5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain."]Or how about go back to where it all started? Only a little more structured or organised. Run the club championships from March to July then rather than have provincial or AI club championships the winning clubs represent their county in the Intercounty championships. Run these in August and September as straight knockout. This will solve most of people's complaints as follows- 1- playing on bad pitches in February or November/December- no adult hurling or football games in bad weather months. 2- player welfare/burnout- alot less fixtures and a good off season. No clubs to be back in training til 01 February. 3- No proper room for minor and u21 championships- These could be run in September/ October/November with a straight knockout championship. They won't clash with exams, and the Fitzgibbon and Sigerson Cups could take place in December, January and February. 4- illegal payments to intercounty managers- there won't be any intercounty managers and expenses for travelling could be reduced by insisting only club members can manage their club team. 5- no high level GAA action in high summer months August/September- the intercounty competition will be in those months 6- uncertainty for club players over fixtures- these will be run as outlined above so there will be absolute certainty 7- richer or bigger population counties having an unfair advantage- population or wealth hasn't the same bearing on club success- look at Ballyhale. 8- standard of refereeing or in particular referees not being able to keep up with the modern intercounty game- as there will be less top level players playing in any given game the games will be that little bit slower and easier to referee. So less need to abuse referees also. 9- bandwagon county supporters- lads will tend to support their own club so crowds should be easier managed size wise come the Intercounty championships. 10- undue pressure on young children- no need for intercounty development squads etc from u11 upwards. 11- arguments like ours over how many weeks should be given over to county or club fixtures- not a problem anymore as there would be alot less games with alot more weekends to play them in! In conclusion this isn't a serious proposal for change. Like all of us I love top level intercounty action. What the above is an exercise. To show how our collective greed for more and more top level intercounty action has caused all of the problems we complain about these days."]That's not a serious proposition at all."]No it's not. Just pointing out that most of the problems lads are complaining about have come about due to the demand for more and more intercounty games since the 90s. There are so many now that there's no room for club fixtures between them as intercounty managers won't release players during the intercounty season. And that's what's caused the AI finals to be in July and the club AI finals to be in January. There's no ideal solution to it now Whammo86. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11695 - 01/12/2022 13:40:47 2449231 Link 0 |
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Heard Donnacha Boyle on Off the Ball yesterday and he hit the nail on the head, the fixtures gripes will be never be completely fixed as there's simply not enough weekends for the amount of competitions and games these days, and given human nature nobody is going to give up the competition there affiliated to ease some pressure, e.g. provincial councils really want to keep the pre season intercounty competitions for the bit of revenue it generates. TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1654 - 01/12/2022 13:58:28 2449235 Link 0 |
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Formating of last few posts is terrible. Any chance a change can be made to make it easier to read threads of posts quoting each other like any other forum? KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 01/12/2022 13:58:32 2449236 Link 0 |
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1) Inter-county from February to July: There are going to be no club games over the 2 weekends of Christmas. Best to have the AI club finals before Christmas so that there is a clear close season. 2) Shorter timescale available for completing club championships. A compromise solution. Both counties from the same province to receive the bye. 3)Inter-county from March to August or April to September: There was a suggestion in some parts that some club players would prefer to enjoy their summer holidays! That's why I briefly discussed that option. Taking all opinions on board etc. 4) Something has to give. For longer timescale for county championships, it will put a squeeze on the timescale for the provincial and All-Ireland series. Something has to give. If you want more time for the Wexford championship, it takes time from somewhere else. 5) Again, something has to give. Club championships from August to October being 3 months. 2 months remain."]Or how about go back to where it all started? Only a little more structured or organised. Run the club championships from March to July then rather than have provincial or AI club championships the winning clubs represent their county in the Intercounty championships. Run these in August and September as straight knockout. This will solve most of people's complaints as follows- 1- playing on bad pitches in February or November/December- no adult hurling or football games in bad weather months. 2- player welfare/burnout- alot less fixtures and a good off season. No clubs to be back in training til 01 February. 3- No proper room for minor and u21 championships- These could be run in September/ October/November with a straight knockout championship. They won't clash with exams, and the Fitzgibbon and Sigerson Cups could take place in December, January and February. 4- illegal payments to intercounty managers- there won't be any intercounty managers and expenses for travelling could be reduced by insisting only club members can manage their club team. 5- no high level GAA action in high summer months August/September- the intercounty competition will be in those months 6- uncertainty for club players over fixtures- these will be run as outlined above so there will be absolute certainty 7- richer or bigger population counties having an unfair advantage- population or wealth hasn't the same bearing on club success- look at Ballyhale. 8- standard of refereeing or in particular referees not being able to keep up with the modern intercounty game- as there will be less top level players playing in any given game the games will be that little bit slower and easier to referee. So less need to abuse referees also. 9- bandwagon county supporters- lads will tend to support their own club so crowds should be easier managed size wise come the Intercounty championships. 10- undue pressure on young children- no need for intercounty development squads etc from u11 upwards. 11- arguments like ours over how many weeks should be given over to county or club fixtures- not a problem anymore as there would be alot less games with alot more weekends to play them in! In conclusion this isn't a serious proposal for change. Like all of us I love top level intercounty action. What the above is an exercise. To show how our collective greed for more and more top level intercounty action has caused all of the problems we complain about these days."]That's not a serious proposition at all."]No it's not. Just pointing out that most of the problems lads are complaining about have come about due to the demand for more and more intercounty games since the 90s. There are so many now that there's no room for club fixtures between them as intercounty managers won't release players during the intercounty season. And that's what's caused the AI finals to be in July and the club AI finals to be in January. There's no ideal solution to it now Whammo86."]Yeah fair enough, I get where you are coming from. If I was in charge I would move the club provincials and All Ireland to the start of the year. Jan/Feb/March. I'd play a tight intercounty season from April to August. Counties able to start when their county teams are both out and not before 1st August. Let counties play off their club championship as they want. If they start late and can't finish until November then so be it, doesn't impact on others because we're not running into the Provincials. 1 code county making an All Ireland can still play September and October. Most would be playing August, September or August to October. Galway are used to playing their hurling championship late in the year with no Connacht club competition and it doesn't cause an issue. The provincial and All Ireland club are the big issue and having every county expected to end their championship at the same time when they've different traditions and requirements and start at different times just doesn't make sense. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4194 - 01/12/2022 14:22:23 2449240 Link 0 |
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July for the majority, August and September are great months for the club championships. There's October then as well for those counties that start later due to making the latter stages of the inter-county All-Ireland championships. The majority of the GAA players are getting to play county club championships in the better weather. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7808 - 01/12/2022 14:36:14 2449245 Link 0 |