National Forum

Late County Finals - Split Season

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "And the Kerry regional Championships as well.
Them cute hoors seem to think the more games lads play the better they get....."
They are smart lads down that way! Nothing like competitive games to bring players on!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15509 - 28/11/2022 14:24:30    2448969

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "It's a novel idea, and it would give those counties more time to complete their club championships, since they couldn't start them as early as all other counties. Personally, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, but I would wonder the knock-on effects of it if both All-Ireland finalists happened to be from the same province.

There are not many other suggestions here from either the Kerry man or the Tyrone man that I'd agree with, though. In particular, I think the suggestion that we should "lose the fascination with dual players" is nothing short of disgraceful."
You should easily be able to start and play club games early in year eveb if you get to all ireland final with a proper season structure and county boards just scheduling games regardless. Especially for clubs who have no or very few county players.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3746 - 28/11/2022 14:30:16    2448972

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Tough for Clifford to miss the Kerry holiday because of the Munster final. The Munster council should have played it earlier so there would be no clashing.
The Kerry County championship probably doesn't help,as the Junior final was played after it was finished"
I don't know how Munster do it, but here in Leinster, the dates for the provincial club championships were announced many months ago...definitely long before Kerry won the All-Ireland to earn such an exotic holiday. And we already know the likely start date for next year's championships, meaning we can work out the likely dates for the subsequent rounds as well.

So, while it's tough on Clifford all right, I'd probably turn your statement around, and say Kerry could have booked the holiday for a different time.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2833 - 28/11/2022 15:10:17    2448976

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "And the Kerry regional Championships as well.
Them cute hoors seem to think the more games lads play the better they get....."
Why would anyone copy Kerry? 38 All-Irelands, nothing to boast about.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2288 - 28/11/2022 15:20:22    2448978

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "It's a novel idea, and it would give those counties more time to complete their club championships, since they couldn't start them as early as all other counties. Personally, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, but I would wonder the knock-on effects of it if both All-Ireland finalists happened to be from the same province.

There are not many other suggestions here from either the Kerry man or the Tyrone man that I'd agree with, though. In particular, I think the suggestion that we should "lose the fascination with dual players" is nothing short of disgraceful."
The dual player and how you accomodate them is an important part of the picture though. Almost every year there is a club doing well in both codes. A team like Slaughtneil or Kilmacud might get to the All Ireland Club final in both codes. They'd probably need to play 12 games in each code to get there. Thats 24 games.

If you start the club season at the start of August and alternate hurling and football each week you'd end up with Janruary finals. Perhaps we should plan for that scenario?

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 432 - 28/11/2022 15:38:15    2448982

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Ulster have the dates well in advance also. Will Clifford have much of an off season if Fossa go on and reach the All Ireland Semis in January? The National League then starting at end of the month.

He played the first roun of the Kerry Junior Championship the weekend after the all Ireland

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2872 - 28/11/2022 15:55:06    2448983

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Why would anyone copy Kerry? 38 All-Irelands, nothing to boast about."
They clearly need to be adopting the Rossie template :-)

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3464 - 28/11/2022 16:01:58    2448986

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Replying To brianb:  "The dual player and how you accomodate them is an important part of the picture though. Almost every year there is a club doing well in both codes. A team like Slaughtneil or Kilmacud might get to the All Ireland Club final in both codes. They'd probably need to play 12 games in each code to get there. Thats 24 games.

If you start the club season at the start of August and alternate hurling and football each week you'd end up with Janruary finals. Perhaps we should plan for that scenario?"
All-Ireland finalists can start their club championships in August, alternate hurling and football every week, and the All-Ireland club championships can be complete by Christmas.
1) The club championships have to be limited to 6 rounds e.g. 3 group games and 3 knockout rounds.
2) The club champions of All-Ireland finalists would have to receive a bye to their provincial semi-finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8742 - 28/11/2022 17:09:54    2448999

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "They clearly need to be adopting the Rossie template :-)"
All we need us to get all our games at home....

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2265 - 28/11/2022 17:14:07    2449002

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "It's a novel idea, and it would give those counties more time to complete their club championships, since they couldn't start them as early as all other counties. Personally, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, but I would wonder the knock-on effects of it if both All-Ireland finalists happened to be from the same province.

There are not many other suggestions here from either the Kerry man or the Tyrone man that I'd agree with, though. In particular, I think the suggestion that we should "lose the fascination with dual players" is nothing short of disgraceful."
Wires are getting crossed somewhere. Their is respect for dual players. All that was pointed out was that dual players shouldn't be impacting on the schedule of both codes.
If club championships are limited to 6 rounds, dual players can play hurling or football on alternating weeks. If a county wants more than 6 rounds, midweek games have to be utilised.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8742 - 28/11/2022 17:15:20    2449003

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Replying To Viking66:  "Agree saynothings attitude goes against what the GAA was set up to do.
Agree from a scheduling point of view giving the AI finalists club champions a bye makes it easier but from a competition point of view I think its nonsense that a club should get an advantage in a club competition based on what a county team does or doesn't achieve."
It's not ideal but it is a practical solution. The latter stages of the All-Ireland championship is knockout. The club provincial championships and All-Ireland club championships are knockout.
All-Ireland finalists naturally have less time to complete their club championships. Allowing a bye to the provincial club semi-finals resolves that.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8742 - 28/11/2022 17:20:09    2449004

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Wires are getting crossed somewhere. Their is respect for dual players. All that was pointed out was that dual players shouldn't be impacting on the schedule of both codes.
If club championships are limited to 6 rounds, dual players can play hurling or football on alternating weeks. If a county wants more than 6 rounds, midweek games have to be utilised."
It was the other lad who came out with the statement that we should "lose the fascination with dual players", not you. At least you're trying to accommodate them.

Have to say some of your suggestions are not particularly workable either, though.

You seem to have already accepted that one of your ideas - that there could be both club hurling and football matches on the same weekend - is not a runner. However, the alternative of having midweek matches in what would include late September and October is not really feasible either. One reason is lads away in college, and another is a shortage of the number of suitable floodlit venues that would be required.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2833 - 28/11/2022 17:33:32    2449005

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Replying To KillingFields:  "You should easily be able to start and play club games early in year eveb if you get to all ireland final with a proper season structure and county boards just scheduling games regardless. Especially for clubs who have no or very few county players."
Same as Limerick we have well over 20 clubs represented on our Senior Hurling and Football panels probably nearer 30. Most of our Senior and Intermediate clubs and some Intermediate A and Junior also. No club should have to play a club championship game without their intercounty players. What is your idea of a proper season structure? Something like what we had back in the early mid 90s?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15509 - 28/11/2022 18:05:26    2449010

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Replying To legendzxix:  "All-Ireland finalists can start their club championships in August, alternate hurling and football every week, and the All-Ireland club championships can be complete by Christmas.
1) The club championships have to be limited to 6 rounds e.g. 3 group games and 3 knockout rounds.
2) The club champions of All-Ireland finalists would have to receive a bye to their provincial semi-finals."
You still haven't answered why the AI club championships need to be finished by the 3rd weekend in December. And your maths is still out. 12 weekends of county club championships is 3 months. And you have already stated the provincial club championships will take 2 months and that the AI championships will take 1 month. The calendar that's been used in Ireland since long belong before we were born has only 12 months in it. Not 13 and a half. And that schedule isn't giving anyone a week off. If a dual players club gets to both AI club finals you will be expecting him to play 12 County championship games, possibly 8 provincial championship games, and 4 AI championship games in 5 months. That's more than a game a week. Madness as the same player will likely be playing til late July or August with his county.
And you still also haven't answered what's wrong with the AI club championships overlapping the start of the League with those players being rested by their County teams as has been the case for many years now? You keep trotting out the bye for clubs whose county teams reach the AII finals but that is just plain unfair on all the other clubs who win their county championships.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15509 - 28/11/2022 18:17:54    2449012

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Wires are getting crossed somewhere. Their is respect for dual players. All that was pointed out was that dual players shouldn't be impacting on the schedule of both codes.
If club championships are limited to 6 rounds, dual players can play hurling or football on alternating weeks. If a county wants more than 6 rounds, midweek games have to be utilised."
Why should we only have 12 weeks of club championships? So you can finish the AI series sometime in the 14th month of the year?!
Seriously though why the big need to finish the AI series before Xmas? There are only 8 clubs maximum involved in it every year. Why should the other 2200 odd clubs have their seasons cut short to suit an elite 8?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15509 - 28/11/2022 18:24:27    2449014

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Wires are getting crossed somewhere. Their is respect for dual players. All that was pointed out was that dual players shouldn't be impacting on the schedule of both codes.
If club championships are limited to 6 rounds, dual players can play hurling or football on alternating weeks. If a county wants more than 6 rounds, midweek games have to be utilised."
Why should we only have 12 weeks of club championships? So you can finish the AI series sometime in the 14th month of the year?!
Seriously though why the big need to finish the AI series before Xmas? There are only 8 clubs maximum involved in it every year. Why should the other 2200 odd clubs have their seasons cut short to suit an elite 8?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15509 - 28/11/2022 18:26:15    2449015

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Wires are getting crossed somewhere. Their is respect for dual players. All that was pointed out was that dual players shouldn't be impacting on the schedule of both codes.
If club championships are limited to 6 rounds, dual players can play hurling or football on alternating weeks. If a county wants more than 6 rounds, midweek games have to be utilised."
Sorry my last post should read a maximum of 24 not 8. But the question remains the same. Why should 2200 clubs have a shortened county club championship window to suit an elite 1% or less?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15509 - 28/11/2022 18:32:53    2449016

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Wires are getting crossed somewhere. Their is respect for dual players. All that was pointed out was that dual players shouldn't be impacting on the schedule of both codes.
If club championships are limited to 6 rounds, dual players can play hurling or football on alternating weeks. If a county wants more than 6 rounds, midweek games have to be utilised."
Sorry my last post should read a maximum of 24 not 8. But the question remains the same. Why should 2200 clubs have a shortened county club championship window to suit an elite 1% or less?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15509 - 28/11/2022 18:33:08    2449017

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Replying To Viking66:  "Obviously they can't be the same weekend what planet are you from? No player would be able for 2 championship games in 2 days."
Sunday 4 December

Leinster club SFC final
The Downs (Westmeath) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 4.30pm

Leinster club SHC final
Ballyhale Shamrocks (Kilkenny) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 2.30pm

The Leinster Council are expecting 2 games in one day from any dual player.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8742 - 28/11/2022 19:57:05    2449020

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Sunday 4 December

Leinster club SFC final
The Downs (Westmeath) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 4.30pm

Leinster club SHC final
Ballyhale Shamrocks (Kilkenny) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 2.30pm

The Leinster Council are expecting 2 games in one day from any dual player."
Kilmacud have 1 dual player Brian Sheedy who starts in hurling and is a sub in football, in other counties clubs could have 10-12 starters in both codes, it's commonplace in Wexford.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 28/11/2022 21:03:00    2449023

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