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Managers Can Transfer But Not Players?

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How come managers can transfer freely but players can not? See the major controversy re Shane Walsh. Meanwhile Davy Fitzgerald careers (intentional pun) all over the country from county to county.
Would it not solve, at one fell swoop, the whole 'Manager Industry' problem if managers were confined to their own counties? And, restore some semblance of the 'amateur ethos' which is important to the GAA.

Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 263 - 12/08/2022 11:43:10    2437145

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You can't even mention the managerial merry go round / gravy train.......
Its taboo.
Davy loves them Waterford lads just like he loved them Cork camogs just like he loved them Wexford lads...

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1136 - 12/08/2022 13:59:49    2437164

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The GAA would do well to establish a training academy for county team managers. After all it is like running a small business. Then give financial incentives to counties who use their own and penalize the ones who go head hunting.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 17/08/2022 15:55:52    2437784

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Replying To Aibrean:  "How come managers can transfer freely but players can not? See the major controversy re Shane Walsh. Meanwhile Davy Fitzgerald careers (intentional pun) all over the country from county to county.
Would it not solve, at one fell swoop, the whole 'Manager Industry' problem if managers were confined to their own counties? And, restore some semblance of the 'amateur ethos' which is important to the GAA."
You could stick in coaches, and club managers and coaches into that as well.

boxty_evaluator (Leitrim) - Posts: 11 - 17/08/2022 16:26:08    2437786

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Replying To Aibrean:  "How come managers can transfer freely but players can not? See the major controversy re Shane Walsh. Meanwhile Davy Fitzgerald careers (intentional pun) all over the country from county to county.
Would it not solve, at one fell swoop, the whole 'Manager Industry' problem if managers were confined to their own counties? And, restore some semblance of the 'amateur ethos' which is important to the GAA."
Good post…. I have said here before that County boards been allowed to pay outside managers would lead to disaster especially at club level…. Nearly every club is now been managed by an outsider who is getting paid…. This leads to discontentment among members who refuse to look after teams after seeing the outsider getting paid knowing they will be expected to do it on a voluntary basis…. The GAA should have confined County boards to select their managers from within…. After all you could count on one hand the amount of All Ireland wins outside managers have delivered despite their huge cost…!!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1940 - 17/08/2022 16:26:42    2437787

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Replying To Aibrean:  "How come managers can transfer freely but players can not? See the major controversy re Shane Walsh. Meanwhile Davy Fitzgerald careers (intentional pun) all over the country from county to county.
Would it not solve, at one fell swoop, the whole 'Manager Industry' problem if managers were confined to their own counties? And, restore some semblance of the 'amateur ethos' which is important to the GAA."
"Would it not solve, at one fell swoop, the whole 'Manager Industry' problem if managers were confined to their own counties"?

Why should managers be restricted to where they can work (good luck with that in court)?
Should carpenters, teachers, nurses, bankers, etc. also be restricted to plying their trades, to where they come from?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2478 - 17/08/2022 16:31:18    2437789

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""Would it not solve, at one fell swoop, the whole 'Manager Industry' problem if managers were confined to their own counties"?

Why should managers be restricted to where they can work (good luck with that in court)?
Should carpenters, teachers, nurses, bankers, etc. also be restricted to plying their trades, to where they come from?"
The replies to you post will be interesting.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 17/08/2022 17:03:51    2437794

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Good post…. I have said here before that County boards been allowed to pay outside managers would lead to disaster especially at club level…. Nearly every club is now been managed by an outsider who is getting paid…. This leads to discontentment among members who refuse to look after teams after seeing the outsider getting paid knowing they will be expected to do it on a voluntary basis…. The GAA should have confined County boards to select their managers from within…. After all you could count on one hand the amount of All Ireland wins outside managers have delivered despite their huge cost…!!!"
Leitrim has a population of 26,000 people. How many of those people would have the interest, time and ability to manage their county at minor, u20 and/or senior level? For how long could a county with such a small population provide sufficient inter county managers at each level? No club is forced to go outside for a manager. No club is forced to employ a manager. Managers are appointed by choice. If a club chooses to employ and pay a manager then so be it.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 17/08/2022 17:09:02    2437795

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Replying To Aibrean:  "How come managers can transfer freely but players can not? See the major controversy re Shane Walsh. Meanwhile Davy Fitzgerald careers (intentional pun) all over the country from county to county.
Would it not solve, at one fell swoop, the whole 'Manager Industry' problem if managers were confined to their own counties? And, restore some semblance of the 'amateur ethos' which is important to the GAA."
A totally unworkable, at one fell swoop, suggestion. Not alone are you not legally allowed to restrict a workperson from where they provide their work/services in Ireland, you can not prevent them from doing so within the EU.

Certain exceptions, usually involving issues of jurisdiction that would cover say policemen, prison wardens, judges, etc. do apply, but football manager would not come within an asses road of these exceptions.

I've an Irish passport as well as an American one. There's nothing to stop me from submitting my application to manage the Kerry senior football team. My application would have to be entertained and looked at. However, I do doubt that my application would be successful (they only hire their own down there), but I could not be confined, at one fell swoop, from applying.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1923 - 17/08/2022 17:10:51    2437796

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Good post…. I have said here before that County boards been allowed to pay outside managers would lead to disaster especially at club level…. Nearly every club is now been managed by an outsider who is getting paid…. This leads to discontentment among members who refuse to look after teams after seeing the outsider getting paid knowing they will be expected to do it on a voluntary basis…. The GAA should have confined County boards to select their managers from within…. After all you could count on one hand the amount of All Ireland wins outside managers have delivered despite their huge cost…!!!"
Its a small list for sure
Trying to think of them .
Michael Bond - Offaly hurlers
Eamon Cregan - Offaly hurlers
Eugene McGee- Offaly footballers
John O Mahony - Galway footballers

Any others?

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 841 - 17/08/2022 17:21:57    2437798

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "A totally unworkable, at one fell swoop, suggestion. Not alone are you not legally allowed to restrict a workperson from where they provide their work/services in Ireland, you can not prevent them from doing so within the EU.

Certain exceptions, usually involving issues of jurisdiction that would cover say policemen, prison wardens, judges, etc. do apply, but football manager would not come within an asses road of these exceptions.

I've an Irish passport as well as an American one. There's nothing to stop me from submitting my application to manage the Kerry senior football team. My application would have to be entertained and looked at. However, I do doubt that my application would be successful (they only hire their own down there), but I could not be confined, at one fell swoop, from applying."
Because technically GAA management is not a job, and in theory should not gain payment then it would not come under employment legislation.
Now the question is could the GAA enforce similar rules around eligibility for managers? I guess they could i.e. the manager to follow the same transfer eligibility guidelines/rules as players.
Note , I'm not suggesting they should so this and it wouldnt be workable anyhow but just stating that i dont think that its an open application process and that the GAA does not have to state that it is an "equal opportunity employer" in this context.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 841 - 17/08/2022 17:29:00    2437799

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""Would it not solve, at one fell swoop, the whole 'Manager Industry' problem if managers were confined to their own counties"?

Why should managers be restricted to where they can work (good luck with that in court)?
Should carpenters, teachers, nurses, bankers, etc. also be restricted to plying their trades, to where they come from?"
As managers aren't being paid there wouldn't be a court case to answer........

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12008 - 17/08/2022 17:41:14    2437800

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Good post…. I have said here before that County boards been allowed to pay outside managers would lead to disaster especially at club level…. Nearly every club is now been managed by an outsider who is getting paid…. This leads to discontentment among members who refuse to look after teams after seeing the outsider getting paid knowing they will be expected to do it on a voluntary basis…. The GAA should have confined County boards to select their managers from within…. After all you could count on one hand the amount of All Ireland wins outside managers have delivered despite their huge cost…!!!"
The manager itself is a relatively new development in Gaelic games. Prior to Heffo and Micko, there weren't called managers.

Without the 'inside manager', we wouldn't have the outsider.

No, you can't count the number of AI victories by outsiders on one hand, but let's not be pedantic: Dermot Healy (1981), Eugene McGee (1982), Dermot Healy (1985), Eamon Cregan (1994), John O'Mahony (1998), and Michael Bond also in that same year. The outsiders did the double actually in 1998. Bet you loved that!

The outside manager can work quite well. Healy with his wealth of Kilkenny knowledge and experience certainly benefitted Offaly. Imagine what the likes of a Pat Gilroy or an Eamonn Fitzmaurice could do for the likes of a bereft Breffini county, ie. Khavhan.

The outside manager isn't going to do away. It's going to become more popular even. Such has been the dearth of success in Cork hurling (senior level) over the past 20 years or so, that Cork, Cork hurling seriously considered this year to bring in the first outside manager ever.

A county like Cork shouldn't need an outsider in hurling (football could do with one though), but hurling counties that consistently fail to get to the next level or to fulfill their full potential, such Laois, Offaly, Westmeath, Dublin, Galway, and Wexford can certainly see the benefit of investing in an outsider. Sure they've all done it already, and many have been at it for years now, and for many of these counties, they have managed to keep hurling alive, progressive and in the public eye.

I don't think that Offaly would have made the breakthrough without Diarmuid Healy's input.

So, don't curse l,'etranger because what's at home is no good. I like the Chinese proverb, "Instead of cursing the darkness, go light a candle."

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1923 - 17/08/2022 17:57:31    2437804

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""Would it not solve, at one fell swoop, the whole 'Manager Industry' problem if managers were confined to their own counties"?

Why should managers be restricted to where they can work (good luck with that in court)?
Should carpenters, teachers, nurses, bankers, etc. also be restricted to plying their trades, to where they come from?"
O now so hurling and football managers is recognized as a paying profession. Interesting. Even up there with apprenticeship that take 4 years and exams to pass. Professions that demand university degrees. Where did the mangers get the official document that recognizes their profession. Really really interesting. All these other people work also with and direct people who earn a wage and pay taxes. Now we are getting down to the nitty gritty. The managers who instruct the drones (players) have a status that equal all other careers but their working bees don't. However you are just stating what is true but hush hush sweep it under the carpet as usual. Thanks for taking the lid of the can of worms because that is what it is. To sum it up the managers and players involved in GAA games are supposedly involved in an amateur pass time and not a paying career. That is a for sure a joke. What we are looking for and have is selective professionalism.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 17/08/2022 17:57:46    2437805

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Replying To anotheralias:  "Its a small list for sure
Trying to think of them .
Michael Bond - Offaly hurlers
Eamon Cregan - Offaly hurlers
Eugene McGee- Offaly footballers
John O Mahony - Galway footballers

Any others?"
Diarmuid Healy, a Kilkenny man won twice with Offaly, in 1981 and 1985.

That brings it to six "outsider" victories, And onto the second hand.

I doubt that the Bull McCabe would be too overjoyed that the "outsider" even triumphed more than waunce (once).

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1923 - 17/08/2022 18:02:35    2437807

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "The manager itself is a relatively new development in Gaelic games. Prior to Heffo and Micko, there weren't called managers.

Without the 'inside manager', we wouldn't have the outsider.

No, you can't count the number of AI victories by outsiders on one hand, but let's not be pedantic: Dermot Healy (1981), Eugene McGee (1982), Dermot Healy (1985), Eamon Cregan (1994), John O'Mahony (1998), and Michael Bond also in that same year. The outsiders did the double actually in 1998. Bet you loved that!

The outside manager can work quite well. Healy with his wealth of Kilkenny knowledge and experience certainly benefitted Offaly. Imagine what the likes of a Pat Gilroy or an Eamonn Fitzmaurice could do for the likes of a bereft Breffini county, ie. Khavhan.

The outside manager isn't going to do away. It's going to become more popular even. Such has been the dearth of success in Cork hurling (senior level) over the past 20 years or so, that Cork, Cork hurling seriously considered this year to bring in the first outside manager ever.

A county like Cork shouldn't need an outsider in hurling (football could do with one though), but hurling counties that consistently fail to get to the next level or to fulfill their full potential, such Laois, Offaly, Westmeath, Dublin, Galway, and Wexford can certainly see the benefit of investing in an outsider. Sure they've all done it already, and many have been at it for years now, and for many of these counties, they have managed to keep hurling alive, progressive and in the public eye.

I don't think that Offaly would have made the breakthrough without Diarmuid Healy's input.

So, don't curse l,'etranger because what's at home is no good. I like the Chinese proverb, "Instead of cursing the darkness, go light a candle.""
Your wisdom is wasted here forever young.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1717 - 17/08/2022 19:08:47    2437813

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Replying To Viking66:  "As managers aren't being paid there wouldn't be a court case to answer........"
Managers aren't being paid? Do you also believe in the Tooth Fairy and Father Christmas?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2478 - 17/08/2022 21:04:30    2437822

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Replying To anotheralias:  "Its a small list for sure
Trying to think of them .
Michael Bond - Offaly hurlers
Eamon Cregan - Offaly hurlers
Eugene McGee- Offaly footballers
John O Mahony - Galway footballers

Any others?"
Dermot Healy Offaly hurlers 1981.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 17/08/2022 21:21:57    2437826

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "The manager itself is a relatively new development in Gaelic games. Prior to Heffo and Micko, there weren't called managers.

Without the 'inside manager', we wouldn't have the outsider.

No, you can't count the number of AI victories by outsiders on one hand, but let's not be pedantic: Dermot Healy (1981), Eugene McGee (1982), Dermot Healy (1985), Eamon Cregan (1994), John O'Mahony (1998), and Michael Bond also in that same year. The outsiders did the double actually in 1998. Bet you loved that!

The outside manager can work quite well. Healy with his wealth of Kilkenny knowledge and experience certainly benefitted Offaly. Imagine what the likes of a Pat Gilroy or an Eamonn Fitzmaurice could do for the likes of a bereft Breffini county, ie. Khavhan.

The outside manager isn't going to do away. It's going to become more popular even. Such has been the dearth of success in Cork hurling (senior level) over the past 20 years or so, that Cork, Cork hurling seriously considered this year to bring in the first outside manager ever.

A county like Cork shouldn't need an outsider in hurling (football could do with one though), but hurling counties that consistently fail to get to the next level or to fulfill their full potential, such Laois, Offaly, Westmeath, Dublin, Galway, and Wexford can certainly see the benefit of investing in an outsider. Sure they've all done it already, and many have been at it for years now, and for many of these counties, they have managed to keep hurling alive, progressive and in the public eye.

I don't think that Offaly would have made the breakthrough without Diarmuid Healy's input.

So, don't curse l,'etranger because what's at home is no good. I like the Chinese proverb, "Instead of cursing the darkness, go light a candle.""
Cork hurlers might need an outside manager every bit as much as their footballers. They are a massive county in a limited field of participants. They won their last senior hurling title in 2005 and they have only made the final three times since in 2006, 2013 and last year when they were annihilated. They are a long way off winning a senior title. Since their senior title win in 2005 they have only won three national titles at minor, u20/21, senior, club or in the National League. They won at minor in 2021 and they won at u20 in 2020 and 2021. Given their hurlers truly abysmal record at senior level since 2005 they might very well need some outside expertise to set them on the road to glory once again.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 17/08/2022 21:34:10    2437829

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Replying To Aibrean:  "How come managers can transfer freely but players can not? See the major controversy re Shane Walsh. Meanwhile Davy Fitzgerald careers (intentional pun) all over the country from county to county.
Would it not solve, at one fell swoop, the whole 'Manager Industry' problem if managers were confined to their own counties? And, restore some semblance of the 'amateur ethos' which is important to the GAA."
i take it you know nothing about the gaa

mickcunningham (Westmeath) - Posts: 1806 - 18/08/2022 08:26:50    2437834

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