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Hawk Eye

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Replying To RHF:  "As a Galway man I hated seeing the point being taken away, and the fact it happened 5 minutes later was salt in the wounds.

But all that aside, I'm wondering what was going on at that end with the umpires. Hawkeye wasn't needed at the other end but came into play 3 times there and twice showed the umpires to have been wrong. Someone needs a trip to specsavers.

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 2958 - 04/07/2022 14:52:25

5 Minutes ????

There could have been another 3 or 4 points in the same end during that time and nobody would have known which one was been chalked off."
The score didn't go up on either scoreboard in Croke Park so it was obvious there was some issue with it.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 847 - 04/07/2022 17:11:18    2429712

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I'm a fan of Hawkeye, assuming that it's working as intended and used correctly in a timely manner.
The issue I have with the Whelan point chalked off yesterday was the length of time it took.
It didn't delay the game of course, but there were at least 4 or 5 plays and shots between the 'score' and the decision to remove the point.
The problem with this is that the scoreline at a point in time can dictate what players decide to do in a game. Play the clock and the scoreboard is a common instruction.
It didn't matter in yesterday's game as it was in the 1st half.
However, a team might go for a point instead of a goal if the scoreboard tells them they're a point behind instead of 2. In that scenario, retrospectively removing a point 5 minutes later is very questionable.
My question would be, why did it take so long yesterday?

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 04/07/2022 17:19:08    2429713

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "But the delayed call that took Galway down from 5 points to 4, did not break up the play at all. That's the issue. The on-time Hawkeye calls generally take 20-30 seconds to call. That's far faster than the 4th official takes in rugby to adjudicate controversial incidents. And that hasn't taken on iota from the game of rugby.

Hawkeye takes nothing from Gaelic games, but adds a lot. It's great technology, and the only issue I have with it, is that it isn't in every county ground."
Nothing wrong with the technology it's its application I have a problem with! you can't take away a score that has been awarded 5 minutes earlier. What happens if it was a one point game and the ref blew the full time whistle in that time?

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 04/07/2022 17:40:49    2429717

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Replying To Canuck:  "It was no anomaly in Walsh Park this year when right behind the goal it was obvious a Tipp ball went over the bar and a Patrick Curran free was wide. I would say it is any thing but rare where technology is not available. These umpires don't cut it with the speed of the ball and positions players take shots from anymore. Time to make them obsolete and provide more and better officiating on the field of play to control the game."
Wait for the "Ah sure aren't they doing their best" brigade who want to stay in the dark ages.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2085 - 04/07/2022 17:57:49    2429723

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "But the delayed call that took Galway down from 5 points to 4, did not break up the play at all. That's the issue. The on-time Hawkeye calls generally take 20-30 seconds to call. That's far faster than the 4th official takes in rugby to adjudicate controversial incidents. And that hasn't taken on iota from the game of rugby.

Hawkeye takes nothing from Gaelic games, but adds a lot. It's great technology, and the only issue I have with it, is that it isn't in every county ground."
I mentioned in a previous post, it costs about €7k a game to use Hawkeye.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2654 - 04/07/2022 19:09:03    2429731

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "But the delayed call that took Galway down from 5 points to 4, did not break up the play at all. That's the issue. The on-time Hawkeye calls generally take 20-30 seconds to call. That's far faster than the 4th official takes in rugby to adjudicate controversial incidents. And that hasn't taken on iota from the game of rugby.

Hawkeye takes nothing from Gaelic games, but adds a lot. It's great technology, and the only issue I have with it, is that it isn't in every county ground."
Got ya. Getting those calls right yesterday was justice and again it is typical of GAA people looking for a loop hole to what is fair and correct. Probable though only taking away scores from the opposition and giving them to their team. I am sure someone has an idea how to make that work. If it in the last minute of play every score should be reviewed but that might be too intelligent for some people. It could take a minute and they are in a huge rush to be held up in the traffic.
Of course a net on the uprights catching 90% of the balls and dropping them down at the back into the lower net. reducing the requirements for many reviews. Yes some will go over it but for the grounds who do not have technology it would be a start.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 04/07/2022 19:38:20    2429736

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Do we need younger and sharper eyes doing the umpire jobs.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1126 - 04/07/2022 20:15:13    2429744

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "link

Hawkeye officials are supposed to alert the referee each time umpires or ref makes the wrong call."
Exactly. Anytime it goes to Hawkeye when the officials haven't called for it you can be certain it means the wrong decision was made.

Surely it's right that a wrong call is corrected but the OP makes an interesting point if it happens right at the death and the final whistle is blown before Hawkeye intervenes.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1430 - 04/07/2022 21:06:58    2429754

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One of the problems is the goalies take the puck outs so quickly now, they're practically taking the puck out as soon as the ball goes out of play. So by the time Hawkeye informs the ref of a score check, play has already been resumed for upwards of a minute or so.

Do we know what the length of time was between the Galway "point" and Hawkeye informing the ref to chalk it off? I've heard "5 minutes" bandied about but that seems exaggerated to me!

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1256 - 04/07/2022 21:16:59    2429758

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "link

Hawkeye officials are supposed to alert the referee each time umpires or ref makes the wrong call."
Yes, and this is the weakness of hawkeye. Tail wagging the dog. It should never be used unless requested by the umpires. who are the "hawkey Officials"?

giveitlong (Galway) - Posts: 1258 - 05/07/2022 08:40:39    2429771

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But it is ridiculous to allow play to continue while at a stroke, everything that subsequently happens can get chalked off because a score is retrospectively awarded. What if a player is sent off? A goal scored? Nay never happened, crazy. Same to a degree with Soccer its crazy.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4941 - 05/07/2022 10:19:47    2429790

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Replying To gunman:  "Do we need younger and sharper eyes doing the umpire jobs."
I think that's a trope that's thrown around a lot that the umpires are all half blind geriatrics. In recent years most of the umpires seem to be younger, usually a contemporary of the referee. But being a hurling umpire is a difficult job. The players hit the ball almost twice the height of the goalposts now. I look at some of the Hawkeye calls of those skyscraper shots and think there's no human being on the planet could make a definitive call on those shots, they're just taking a hunch and hoping it's right! Unless they introduced a rule saying a point must be scored BETWEEN the posts, where it's easier to judge, not half a mile above them!

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1256 - 05/07/2022 11:12:03    2429803

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Replying To ballydalane:  "One of the problems is the goalies take the puck outs so quickly now, they're practically taking the puck out as soon as the ball goes out of play. So by the time Hawkeye informs the ref of a score check, play has already been resumed for upwards of a minute or so.

Do we know what the length of time was between the Galway "point" and Hawkeye informing the ref to chalk it off? I've heard "5 minutes" bandied about but that seems exaggerated to me!"
The length of time was 3 minutes and 15 seconds between Glennon's 'point' being scored and the ref then blowing the whistle to review it and remove the score.
It had a nothing to do with a quick puckout not giving them the opportunity, as there were numerous stoppages in the interim including Limerick scoring a point of their own from a free.
As mentioned, I think Hawkeye is a good tool, but over 3 minutes to check a score is unacceptable. A simple question which will never get answered is why it took that long.
A similar occurrence at the end of a game could cause a serious problem. A team thinking they're level or a only a point behind based on the scoreboard, might take a different decision than they would if the correct score was known.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 05/07/2022 11:25:15    2429808

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Common sense ought to apply too. You will generally know by reaction on field and from crowd if a point has been wrongly called. Ref obviously has a better view than umpire most times as well so maybe use his discretion more? Very rarely do you see a point given when neither the player who hit the ball nor supporters anywhere in the ground don't instinctively react to a wide being called.

Umpire is a difficult job to be avoided at all costs in my experience! Must be nightmare as said where you only have a foot or two to step back and the ball is 50 feet over your head!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3120 - 05/07/2022 11:57:45    2429821

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Replying To ballydalane:  "I think that's a trope that's thrown around a lot that the umpires are all half blind geriatrics. In recent years most of the umpires seem to be younger, usually a contemporary of the referee. But being a hurling umpire is a difficult job. The players hit the ball almost twice the height of the goalposts now. I look at some of the Hawkeye calls of those skyscraper shots and think there's no human being on the planet could make a definitive call on those shots, they're just taking a hunch and hoping it's right! Unless they introduced a rule saying a point must be scored BETWEEN the posts, where it's easier to judge, not half a mile above them!"
I was just thinking that I wouldn't be as confident at doing an umpire job now as I was when I was younger.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1126 - 05/07/2022 12:07:48    2429825

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Is the issue Hawk Eye or is it the operators of Hawk Eye.... is the broadband too slow!

Wondering is there a training issue.

Time delay for Glennons point was crazy but in general it takes too long.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1890 - 05/07/2022 12:17:12    2429829

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I think it is a little bit ingenuous complaining about the review time. Do we want that process to make a mistake as well ? In the NHL sometimes the refs are contacted straight away and other times it takes longer because it is more difficult and needs several looks and the review is in Toronto with the game maybe in California.
Surly they are not looking at every score when you see the goal tender jumping up and the ball going straight over his stick and the black spot. Play is stopped when the umpire calls for the review. Do the same when the hawk eye monitor wants to review. You can't have it several ways. Wanting the right decision. Not stopping play (that already occurs) and complaining about the time it took. The right decisions were made on Sunday but I think some don't want the right decision when it is not to their advantage. Typical. The Galway point should have being called back because it was not a point. Get it ? A wide and if it took till half time to change it so be it.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 05/07/2022 14:30:36    2429892

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Replying To Canuck:  "I think it is a little bit ingenuous complaining about the review time. Do we want that process to make a mistake as well ? In the NHL sometimes the refs are contacted straight away and other times it takes longer because it is more difficult and needs several looks and the review is in Toronto with the game maybe in California.
Surly they are not looking at every score when you see the goal tender jumping up and the ball going straight over his stick and the black spot. Play is stopped when the umpire calls for the review. Do the same when the hawk eye monitor wants to review. You can't have it several ways. Wanting the right decision. Not stopping play (that already occurs) and complaining about the time it took. The right decisions were made on Sunday but I think some don't want the right decision when it is not to their advantage. Typical. The Galway point should have being called back because it was not a point. Get it ? A wide and if it took till half time to change it so be it."
Could learn a thing or two from ice hockey. For a game that moves so fast when the puck is in play they do seem to get hard calls right consistency.
Granted it is a professional sport and technology is used to full effect it would be no harm if the GAA aspired to embrace technology further to help out all match officials.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2085 - 05/07/2022 17:11:55    2429951

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Replying To ballydalane:  "I think that's a trope that's thrown around a lot that the umpires are all half blind geriatrics. In recent years most of the umpires seem to be younger, usually a contemporary of the referee. But being a hurling umpire is a difficult job. The players hit the ball almost twice the height of the goalposts now. I look at some of the Hawkeye calls of those skyscraper shots and think there's no human being on the planet could make a definitive call on those shots, they're just taking a hunch and hoping it's right! Unless they introduced a rule saying a point must be scored BETWEEN the posts, where it's easier to judge, not half a mile above them!"
Judging points is difficult with the speed of the ball. The great Eddie Keher would hit them so hard from a 21 that hawkeye would need an upgrade to catch. He did it for that reason and who was going to call a wide against a man who scored 99.9% of the time. I seen him drive two wides in Walsh Park on a day and the umpire was bending down to pick the flag up as he was raising the ball. The advantage from the bank was I was further back and if id did not come between the post when you are straight behind the goal it must be wide.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 05/07/2022 18:11:15    2429961

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Replying To ballydalane:  "One of the problems is the goalies take the puck outs so quickly now, they're practically taking the puck out as soon as the ball goes out of play. So by the time Hawkeye informs the ref of a score check, play has already been resumed for upwards of a minute or so.

Do we know what the length of time was between the Galway "point" and Hawkeye informing the ref to chalk it off? I've heard "5 minutes" bandied about but that seems exaggerated to me!"
Glennons point was 16.05. hawk eye came up at 19.42 to take the score away. In that time Galway had a wide from Joseph Cooney and Hayes scored a point for Limerick. Like I said before what if this happened in the last few minutes of a one point game, Ref blows forfull time and then hawk flashes up for a wide making it a draw game!

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 05/07/2022 18:25:46    2429962

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