Replying To Lockjaw:  "I agree that some of the fawning over Messi has been a bit over the top, especially by the lads on the BBC. But I don't get a lot of your criticism of him. He has scored 672 goals in 778 senior games. Who cares if he isn't steaming into tackles winning dirty balls and dominating midfield exchanges in the air? The hardest thing to do in soccer is get the ball into the net, and between goals and assists, Messi has few if any peers.

He may or may not go on to win this World Cup. But I think that's neither here nor there when discussing him as one of the all time greats."

Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet:  "After the shocking refereeing display in the Holland-Argentina game, I'm beginning to think there is a conspiracy
to make sure Messi gets his hand on the world cup after a succession of world cup flops by him.

The standard generally at this Word Cup is poor - I've been watching world cups since 1974, and, apart from Argentina - who are a good team with a superb, hard-working defence and plenty of good attackers too - all the other traditional teams, for various reasons, are not at the races in 2022. Italy is the best team in Europe, and they somehow
contrived to screw it up and not even qualify! But they're better than most of the teams actually at the world cup. Belgium are over the hill, and were useless. France are betting the house on Mbappé, but more than half their first-choice team is missing through injury (Pogba, Kante, Kimpembe, Maignan, Nkunku, Benzema, Hernandez -
almost a full team there, and it includes the most recent Ballon d'Or winner, and a host of other guys who are performing brilliantly for the top clubs in Europe), and no team can survive a cull like that when things get serious. Essentially, all the other teams are playing a French B team. Croatia is a pale shadow of what they were 4 years
ago, and, at pushing 37, Modric is far too old for the kind of dynamic role he still, bless him, tries to carry out. Unlike the 2 years younger Messi, who is carried by his team who funnel everything through him and hold up play until he catches up with it, and then spends long periods out of the game, strolling around doing nothing, Modric's role is still to be a dynamic midfielder (not in the Pirlo model), and you can't really do that at his age. Brazil was good
against anyone who gave them space to show off their undoubted box of tricks (did you see that weighted pass in!), but ultimately not quite able to reproduce it against more determined opposition. England have done their usual
face-plant. Holland mostly don't play attacking football anymore. They were content not to play for 80 minutes
yesterday and were 2 down as a result. They then started to attack for 10 minutes, using their height advantage to create havoc, and got 2 goals. Then, in extra time, having done their 10 minutes of football, they stopped playing altogether again, and were careful to avoid the final quarter of the pitch in added time. Very poor. Poland, albeit hardly a traditional team, were perhaps even worse - no attacking play discernible - simply dreadful. As for Germany, one of the poorest German sides I've ever seen. No natural striker, lacking their traditional ruthlessness, complacent and shaky in defence. Portugal have been very average throughout, apart from against Switzerland, where they looked very good. But - that was against Switzerland - no disrespect to Switzerland, but they're no world beaters.

Argentina has finally worked out what Messi needs - he needs to be carried, and thereafter to present being carried as "leading". In previous world cups, Messi simply disappeared when it counted (Modric completely owned him in 2018), and spent lots of time strolling around the pitch, sulking, while adoring star-struck commentators sighed that
"Argentina was not doing enough to get Messi into the game".

All his sporting life, the cossetted Messi has been spoon-fed by top-class teammates. He rarely heads the ball well. He doesn't score with a bicycle. You never see him pinging a pitch-long pass or winning dirty ball and competing hard for possession, flaking into a man and robbing the ball off him, or playing with real aggression. His skill is calmness in possession, and an undoubted ability to give a killer short-range pass, and to finish with extreme accuracy in
crowded areas. At that, he's a master. And Argentina, for too long expecting him to be a leader, and expecting him to carry the team, have eventually accepted that he's never going to do that, and they cleverly have adapted their team play so that everything revolves around Messi. You see Mac Allister on the attack, then sacrificing his own play and holding play up until Messi catches up. And, ball at his feet, in a right situation in the opposition half, Messi will of
course punish you - he's a deadly finisher. He never does anything too acrobatic or too memorable - it's all neat little slot passes and placed balls - but his gift is his ability to stay calm and see the eye of a needle in a chaotic situation and deliver a well-weighted pass or score.

In reality though, Messi should not even be playing in the next match v Croatia. Following from his cheating (the dying swan / face-clutching routine) to win a penalty in the previous game, Messi's deliberate hand ball was as blatant, and as deliberate a hand ball as you could ever wish to see, and it was in front of the ref. Who, amazingly, completely ignored the obvious yellow card that should have ensued. And of course Messi had another yellow card, and should not have finished the game. Perhaps the Spanish ref leant to the Spanish speakers, but, if there'd have been any sort of normal ref v Holland, Argentina should have finished the game with 9 men. The normal-time penalty Argentina got was soft as you like, and he ignored a very similar incident which, had the same generous standard been applied, should have resulted in a penalty to the Duch shortly afterwards. The Dutch were poor in the shootout of course, and you
aways felt their lanky goalie was always going to be a problem - keepers like him are great at dealing with crosses etc, but a bloke that tall is physically never going to get himself on the floor quickly enough in a shoot-out, and the Argentinians had a relatively comfortable time of it in the shootout, of course helped by the Dutch missing the first 2, which sucked all the nerves out of it for Argentina.

As with Portugal and Ronaldo, I reckon Argentina would be a better team without Messi. But their defence is superb, they're cynical, and they are all comfortable on the ball, they have a great team spirit, and, crucially, they have leaders all over the pitch now. They're on a roll, luck and referees are with them, Messi's cheating routinely is indulged by referees, and Argentina is in any event good enough to win it without Messi, and I do not see much standing in their way."

Replying To supersub15:  "No doubt Messi is a class act, however he is not on his own and must share the world stage with a few others, up to the semi final stage this was a very exciting tournament probably one of the better ones, lots of passion, tenacity, super skill with pace at another level. I went for the underdog last night as I always do as I find it too easy to jump on the glory band wagon, (by the way I am not suggesting for one minute that you do, far from it.) I give no brownie points to Argentina for the victory over Croatia, I do wish Argentina well and I congratulate them, full stop. Why you may ask do I feel like that, Argentina has a population of almost 46 million where as Croatia has a population of almost 4 million, they have won the WC on two previous occasions unlike Croatia who has never won it.

So Messi is on the world stage as one of the greats in football, but he must share the stage as he is not on his own even though, on my count he has scored 790 goals + or - one or two. If Messi performs well in the final and subsequently bags the winning goal then I will revisit this post for a rethink, but for the moment Ronaldo has the bragging rights,
Ronaldo has scored a total of 819 goals.

Messi has made 5 appearances for Argentina in world cup finals, winning none.
Ronaldo has the record of scoring a goal in each of 5 different world cup appearances, winning none either.
Ronaldo, for the moment has the bragging rights, imo.


PS. This is not a reflection on you posts or opinions, rather I think you will read and access it more sportingly and fairly than most other pro Messi / anti Renaldo posters."

Replying To Lockjaw:  "A good and fair post. I also have a soft spot for Croatia. My first trip to Lansdowne Road to see Ireland play was against Croatia in a friendly just before Euro 96. They had some great players like Boban, Suker, Boksic, Prosinecki and Asanovic. They went on to have a decent tournament and of course followed that up by finishing third at World Cup 98. I've always followed them since. They produce quality players and play a very nice brand of football. Luka Modric has been the outstanding midfield player over the last 15 years IMO.

My reasons for supporting Argentina aren't all down to Messi. Like Croatia, Argentina have always prodoced fantastic footballers and they have a very passionate support. Similar to ourselves here in Ireland, they've had their differences with Great Britain too and I'd imagine those older than me can remember the great Diego Maradona laying waste to England's hopes in 86. I can remember willing them to beat England in 98 as well.

Ronaldo does indeed have more goals, albeit having played more games. You could argue that he's a better goal scorer and that's fair enough. But in terms of all round ability Messi is a superior footballer I feel. Just one example I'd give you to back that assertion up is from the quarter final against the Netherlands. Messi is running at pace and without even looking produces a defence splitting reverse pass to the full-back Molina. In a similar situation I don't think Ronaldo would even envision, let alone attempt that pass.

Both men are near the end of their careers but who would you say has adapted their game better to compensate for their diminishing physical capabilities? If I was a manager of Messi, I could think of a few different positions where he could still do a job extremely well:

6: Deep lying playmaker
10. Play in the pocket behind an energetic number 9.
8. Right-wing cutting in on his left (doesn't have the same explosive pace of old but could still hurt teams)

I don't think I could say the same thing for Ronaldo. He is an out and out number 9 who needs the team set up solely to service him. This becomes predictable and teams can counteract it fairly comfortably. Don't get me wrong though. Ronaldo at his peak was absolute machine and few if any defences could tame him. I just feel that overall Messi shades the great debate."

Replying To WanPintWin:  "I won't quote the previous posts, as they're pretty long. However, just one point on the goalscoring:
Ronaldo has scored marginally more goals than Messi in total across their careers. For those that really care, at the current count it's 28 goals more. However, he has played almost 150 more games to achieve that total. He's 2 years older than Messi.
Messi's goals per game record is quite a bit better and it's likely he'll overhaul Ronaldo's record, possibly even within the next year. In my opinion Messi's actually a better goalscorer. The stats back it up.
That's leaving aside all the obvious points about how Messi can adapt his game and still be incredibly effective. Playing deeper as playmaker, creating chances for others etc.
Ronaldo at this stage hasn't been able to evolve and has become less and less effective as his physical ability diminishes. He essentially needs to be fed the ball and will get goals, but doesn't offer much more outside of that."

Replying To WanPintWin:  "I won't quote the previous posts, as they're pretty long. However, just one point on the goalscoring:
Ronaldo has scored marginally more goals than Messi in total across their careers. For those that really care, at the current count it's 28 goals more. However, he has played almost 150 more games to achieve that total. He's 2 years older than Messi.
Messi's goals per game record is quite a bit better and it's likely he'll overhaul Ronaldo's record, possibly even within the next year. In my opinion Messi's actually a better goalscorer. The stats back it up.
That's leaving aside all the obvious points about how Messi can adapt his game and still be incredibly effective. Playing deeper as playmaker, creating chances for others etc.
Ronaldo at this stage hasn't been able to evolve and has become less and less effective as his physical ability diminishes. He essentially needs to be fed the ball and will get goals, but doesn't offer much more outside of that."

Replying To GreenandRed:  "There's no doubt that Messi is the more naturally gifted footballer. Ronaldo has to work hard on his game to improve, adapted from playing as a winger to striker. Won't do the work Messi does. Messi needs to do a lot for this Argentina team though because there's a huge gulf in class, even at his age, between him and his teammates."

Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "The current strikes shown the flawed system of capitalism which is really coming home to roost in this cost of living crisis. Too many greedy people and greedy governments concerntrating wealth with a few people while nurses who were getting applauded during the pandemic are treated shamefully and expected to take pay awards far less than the rate of inflation and are rewarded for their vital work by a fall in their living standards."

Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "The current strikes shown the flawed system of capitalism which is really coming home to roost in this cost of living crisis. Too many greedy people and greedy governments concerntrating wealth with a few people while nurses who were getting applauded during the pandemic are treated shamefully and expected to take pay awards far less than the rate of inflation and are rewarded for their vital work by a fall in their living standards."

Replying To Lockjaw:  "A good and fair post. I also have a soft spot for Croatia. My first trip to Lansdowne Road to see Ireland play was against Croatia in a friendly just before Euro 96. They had some great players like Boban, Suker, Boksic, Prosinecki and Asanovic. They went on to have a decent tournament and of course followed that up by finishing third at World Cup 98. I've always followed them since. They produce quality players and play a very nice brand of football. Luka Modric has been the outstanding midfield player over the last 15 years IMO.

My reasons for supporting Argentina aren't all down to Messi. Like Croatia, Argentina have always prodoced fantastic footballers and they have a very passionate support. Similar to ourselves here in Ireland, they've had their differences with Great Britain too and I'd imagine those older than me can remember the great Diego Maradona laying waste to England's hopes in 86. I can remember willing them to beat England in 98 as well.

Ronaldo does indeed have more goals, albeit having played more games. You could argue that he's a better goal scorer and that's fair enough. But in terms of all round ability Messi is a superior footballer I feel. Just one example I'd give you to back that assertion up is from the quarter final against the Netherlands. Messi is running at pace and without even looking produces a defence splitting reverse pass to the full-back Molina. In a similar situation I don't think Ronaldo would even envision, let alone attempt that pass.

Both men are near the end of their careers but who would you say has adapted their game better to compensate for their diminishing physical capabilities? If I was a manager of Messi, I could think of a few different positions where he could still do a job extremely well:

6: Deep lying playmaker
10. Play in the pocket behind an energetic number 9.
8. Right-wing cutting in on his left (doesn't have the same explosive pace of old but could still hurt teams)

I don't think I could say the same thing for Ronaldo. He is an out and out number 9 who needs the team set up solely to service him. This becomes predictable and teams can counteract it fairly comfortably. Don't get me wrong though. Ronaldo at his peak was absolute machine and few if any defences could tame him. I just feel that overall Messi shades the great debate."

Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "Private citizens in this country were never wealthier, or happier at an individual level.
Look around you, capitalism has raised the standard of living beyond anything we thought possible in the 80s or 90s.
Nurses and teachers included."

Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "Private citizens in this country were never wealthier, or happier at an individual level.
Look around you, capitalism has raised the standard of living beyond anything we thought possible in the 80s or 90s.
Nurses and teachers included."

Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "Private citizens in this country were never wealthier, or happier at an individual level.
Look around you, capitalism has raised the standard of living beyond anything we thought possible in the 80s or 90s.
Nurses and teachers included."

Replying To Breffni40:  "Depressing to think this is the happiest Irish people have ever been"

Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "The current strikes shown the flawed system of capitalism which is really coming home to roost in this cost of living crisis. Too many greedy people and greedy governments concerntrating wealth with a few people while nurses who were getting applauded during the pandemic are treated shamefully and expected to take pay awards far less than the rate of inflation and are rewarded for their vital work by a fall in their living standards."

Replying To Saynothing:  "Off on a rant here, but why does heating oil keep rising when Derv is dropping in price. I know in the North a certain company seems to be developing a monopoly and heating oil and coal. It's getting out of hand and they can't blame Putin on it all. A barrel of oil is down to $73 and less last week."

Replying To Saynothing:  "Off on a rant here, but why does heating oil keep rising when Derv is dropping in price. I know in the North a certain company seems to be developing a monopoly and heating oil and coal. It's getting out of hand and they can't blame Putin on it all. A barrel of oil is down to $73 and less last week."