Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9631 - 12/12/2022 11:21:55    2450167

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2260 - 12/12/2022 11:25:53    2450169

Hope Argentina win it, it will sicken the English even more if they do, semi finals I predict Argentina to win 3. 2
France to win their semi final 1. 0
Final Argentina 2 France 1. Messi to score the winner.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3102 - 12/12/2022 13:02:19    2450177

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1526 - 12/12/2022 13:03:37    2450178

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2260 - 12/12/2022 14:00:02    2450192

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1526 - 12/12/2022 14:20:54    2450197

Between shootouts and penalties in regulation play, they have some terrible history for sure. I remember Beckham ballooning one over against France at the Euros. They ended up losing to a late comeback.
While the general consensus is that they played well, it must be said that they didn't really have any excellent chances from open play. Even the last penalty was an absolute gift due to a braindead decision by Hernandez.
France despite having fewer shots, had the better scoring chances.
I do think Southgate has done a good job in general, but when you actually look at their record in the 3 major competitions, the only team historically top team they've beaten is Germany in the last Euros, and they're a poor version of themselves for the last number of years. They did beat Croatia in group stage of the last Euros too, which is a good result. In general, though they've beaten who they'd be expected to and lost the games against stronger teams.
In WC 2018, EC 2020 and WC 2022, they have beaten: Tunisia, Panama, Colombia, Sweden, Croatia, Czech Republic, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark, Iran, Wales, Senegal
Drawn with: Scotland, USA
And lost to: Belgium x 2, Croatia, Italy, France

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2253 - 12/12/2022 14:43:34    2450200

One thing that has irritated me in the last few weeks is the chat from some people when it comes to the World Cup or soccer in general. I've heard a few people stating their preference for the club hurling and football championships. Here, obviously because it's a GAA website, but also when out and about. That's totally fine and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I've noticed a kind of undertone, that you're not being a true Gael if you've been following the World Cup more than the club championships.

Someone said something smart to me along those lines the other day when he overheard me talking about one of the World Cup games. I responded to him in Irish. He didn't have much to say in response funnily enough.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9631 - 12/12/2022 15:47:52    2450214

Don't here to much about global warming from eamonn ryan this week

Mattyreilly (Westmeath) - Posts: 167 - 12/12/2022 16:28:59    2450222

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3128 - 12/12/2022 17:20:27    2450230

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3102 - 12/12/2022 17:46:53    2450233

points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 289 - 12/12/2022 21:15:48    2450252

After the shocking refereeing display in the Holland-Argentina game, I'm beginning to think there is a conspiracy
to make sure Messi gets his hand on the world cup after a succession of world cup flops by him.

The standard generally at this Word Cup is poor - I've been watching world cups since 1974, and, apart from Argentina - who are a good team with a superb, hard-working defence and plenty of good attackers too - all the other traditional teams, for various reasons, are not at the races in 2022. Italy is the best team in Europe, and they somehow
contrived to screw it up and not even qualify! But they're better than most of the teams actually at the world cup. Belgium are over the hill, and were useless. France are betting the house on Mbappé, but more than half their first-choice team is missing through injury (Pogba, Kante, Kimpembe, Maignan, Nkunku, Benzema, Hernandez -
almost a full team there, and it includes the most recent Ballon d'Or winner, and a host of other guys who are performing brilliantly for the top clubs in Europe), and no team can survive a cull like that when things get serious. Essentially, all the other teams are playing a French B team. Croatia is a pale shadow of what they were 4 years
ago, and, at pushing 37, Modric is far too old for the kind of dynamic role he still, bless him, tries to carry out. Unlike the 2 years younger Messi, who is carried by his team who funnel everything through him and hold up play until he catches up with it, and then spends long periods out of the game, strolling around doing nothing, Modric's role is still to be a dynamic midfielder (not in the Pirlo model), and you can't really do that at his age. Brazil was good
against anyone who gave them space to show off their undoubted box of tricks (did you see that weighted pass in!), but ultimately not quite able to reproduce it against more determined opposition. England have done their usual
face-plant. Holland mostly don't play attacking football anymore. They were content not to play for 80 minutes
yesterday and were 2 down as a result. They then started to attack for 10 minutes, using their height advantage to create havoc, and got 2 goals. Then, in extra time, having done their 10 minutes of football, they stopped playing altogether again, and were careful to avoid the final quarter of the pitch in added time. Very poor. Poland, albeit hardly a traditional team, were perhaps even worse - no attacking play discernible - simply dreadful. As for Germany, one of the poorest German sides I've ever seen. No natural striker, lacking their traditional ruthlessness, complacent and shaky in defence. Portugal have been very average throughout, apart from against Switzerland, where they looked very good. But - that was against Switzerland - no disrespect to Switzerland, but they're no world beaters.

Argentina has finally worked out what Messi needs - he needs to be carried, and thereafter to present being carried as "leading". In previous world cups, Messi simply disappeared when it counted (Modric completely owned him in 2018), and spent lots of time strolling around the pitch, sulking, while adoring star-struck commentators sighed that
"Argentina was not doing enough to get Messi into the game".

All his sporting life, the cossetted Messi has been spoon-fed by top-class teammates. He rarely heads the ball well. He doesn't score with a bicycle. You never see him pinging a pitch-long pass or winning dirty ball and competing hard for possession, flaking into a man and robbing the ball off him, or playing with real aggression. His skill is calmness in possession, and an undoubted ability to give a killer short-range pass, and to finish with extreme accuracy in
crowded areas. At that, he's a master. And Argentina, for too long expecting him to be a leader, and expecting him to carry the team, have eventually accepted that he's never going to do that, and they cleverly have adapted their team play so that everything revolves around Messi. You see Mac Allister on the attack, then sacrificing his own play and holding play up until Messi catches up. And, ball at his feet, in a right situation in the opposition half, Messi will of
course punish you - he's a deadly finisher. He never does anything too acrobatic or too memorable - it's all neat little slot passes and placed balls - but his gift is his ability to stay calm and see the eye of a needle in a chaotic situation and deliver a well-weighted pass or score.

In reality though, Messi should not even be playing in the next match v Croatia. Following from his cheating (the dying swan / face-clutching routine) to win a penalty in the previous game, Messi's deliberate hand ball was as blatant, and as deliberate a hand ball as you could ever wish to see, and it was in front of the ref. Who, amazingly, completely ignored the obvious yellow card that should have ensued. And of course Messi had another yellow card, and should not have finished the game. Perhaps the Spanish ref leant to the Spanish speakers, but, if there'd have been any sort of normal ref v Holland, Argentina should have finished the game with 9 men. The normal-time penalty Argentina got was soft as you like, and he ignored a very similar incident which, had the same generous standard been applied, should have resulted in a penalty to the Duch shortly afterwards. The Dutch were poor in the shootout of course, and you
aways felt their lanky goalie was always going to be a problem - keepers like him are great at dealing with crosses etc, but a bloke that tall is physically never going to get himself on the floor quickly enough in a shoot-out, and the Argentinians had a relatively comfortable time of it in the shootout, of course helped by the Dutch missing the first 2, which sucked all the nerves out of it for Argentina.

As with Portugal and Ronaldo, I reckon Argentina would be a better team without Messi. But their defence is superb, they're cynical, and they are all comfortable on the ball, they have a great team spirit, and, crucially, they have leaders all over the pitch now. They're on a roll, luck and referees are with them, Messi's cheating routinely is indulged by referees, and Argentina is in any event good enough to win it without Messi, and I do not see much standing in their way.

points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 289 - 12/12/2022 21:23:49    2450253

I agree with your previous post about only having an interest in the World Cup and not following club soccer. I'm the same. I grew out of club soccer as a teenager and don't follow any club team. I've always followed international football though, and enjoy the big tournaments. You can see how much more it means to the players when they win or lose.
As for your second post, I'd have to disagree with most of it. If you think Argentina would be better without Messi, you'd want to check their record when he's not there. McAllister 'sacrificing' his attacking game to give Messi more freedom is hardly surprising. I know which one of them I'd want to have on the ball. He's not the player he was, who could dribble the ball past 4 or 5, but he's still by far their best attacking player. He's a 5'7 playmaker and you expect him to be winning headers in the box?
Modric has been outstanding. His use of the ball in tight spaces is exceptional. He's still playing at the top level for Madrid too, so he's not past it yet.
On the lanky goalie theory, two of the best penalty savers in football are Courtois and Szczesny, 6'7" and 6'5" respectively. Maybe the Dutch keeper just wasn't that good.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2253 - 13/12/2022 10:12:51    2450266

I agree that some of the fawning over Messi has been a bit over the top, especially by the lads on the BBC. But I don't get a lot of your criticism of him. He has scored 672 goals in 778 senior games. Who cares if he isn't steaming into tackles winning dirty balls and dominating midfield exchanges in the air? The hardest thing to do in soccer is get the ball into the net, and between goals and assists, Messi has few if any peers.

He may or may not go on to win this World Cup. But I think that's neither here nor there when discussing him as one of the all time greats.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9631 - 13/12/2022 12:02:34    2450286

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3572 - 13/12/2022 15:28:33    2450328

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3102 - 13/12/2022 16:32:33    2450333

I fancied Argentina to win the World cup before it started a pity I didn't place some cash on it.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3962 - 13/12/2022 21:05:21    2450359

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2260 - 13/12/2022 21:50:08    2450362

Gvardiol has had a superb tournament. One of the best young defenders I've seen in a good while. But he got schooled for the third goal last night. No shame in that though. He'll probably show that clip to his grandchildren some day.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9631 - 14/12/2022 09:55:57    2450374