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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Jes ye are an awful bunch of karens on here in fairness for what I assume are grown men mostly,
NATO kept pushing in on Russia's doorstep breaking previous agreements and the conflict in Ukraine was the result of it, happened over a long timeframe,
as Putin said the cause of the conflict has to be dealt with, same as in the our own six counties.
I'm no massive Trump fan but I think it must be clear to anyone who isn't biased that he just wants the killing to end, he wants to be a peacemaker in this world, that is no bad thing is it?
I don't think the Russians are trying to retake eastern Europe, I think they were forced to act in Ukraine by NATO, not many will agree with me but that doesn't make what I'm saying untrue."
Jesus what are you on about? Israel said they would take over Gaza which they are doing. Russia have said they will take over the land they want in Eastern Europe. At what point do you eh maybe take them seriously?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8487 - 17/08/2025 18:08:26    2632282

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I hope Zelensky has the manners to at least wear a suit tomorrow in Washington, dress to impress as they say, the t-shirt kid act is worn out at this stage.
Funny how our media has been telling us for years that the Russians were losing, I think if the truth be told the Ukrainians are just about hanging on at this stage fighting this proxy NATO war.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3417 - 17/08/2025 22:10:09    2632349

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Replying To TheClareKid:  "With all due respect do you think I was sitting in on the meeting between the two leaders? I imagine there's a lot of give and take or negotiation in these things. Subservient to Mr Putin? If that's what you call bombing his ally in Iran but that doesn't seem logical. Mr Zelensky to my understanding was complaining of the stoppage or lack of funding from the USA once Mr Trump took over from Mr Biden. I believe that's why Mr Trump and Mr Vance snapped at him. I don't know any more than you know about these only speculation on my part. I just want the wars to stop and will leave the semantics to others."
The Ukrainians were guaranteed their borders and safety by the Americans and Russians in return for giving up their nukes. It's not hard to see why they are p###ed off now.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16863 - 17/08/2025 22:27:51    2632353

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I hope Zelensky has the manners to at least wear a suit tomorrow in Washington, dress to impress as they say, the t-shirt kid act is worn out at this stage.
Funny how our media has been telling us for years that the Russians were losing, I think if the truth be told the Ukrainians are just about hanging on at this stage fighting this proxy NATO war."
They should've kept their nukes. Putin wouldn't have invaded them then. Like in most of aspects of life you are best not relying on other people's word, or good faith.

Honourable people don't generally make successful politicians.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16863 - 17/08/2025 22:31:08    2632356

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Replying To Viking66:  "The Ukrainians were guaranteed their borders and safety by the Americans and Russians in return for giving up their nukes. It's not hard to see why they are p###ed off now."
Guaranteed by WHO? Just end these wars please. All of them. Let's plow ahead.

TheClareKid (Clare) - Posts: 9 - 18/08/2025 03:15:03    2632382

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I hope Zelensky has the manners to at least wear a suit tomorrow in Washington, dress to impress as they say, the t-shirt kid act is worn out at this stage.
Funny how our media has been telling us for years that the Russians were losing, I think if the truth be told the Ukrainians are just about hanging on at this stage fighting this proxy NATO war."
Both sides using alot of foreign weapons, and Russia using a good number of foreign soldiers also. Both sides are well dug in. Not sure hanging on by their fingertips is the right way to put the situation there, which is becoming more like WW1 every day.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16863 - 18/08/2025 07:36:19    2632388

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Replying To TheClareKid:  "Guaranteed by WHO? Just end these wars please. All of them. Let's plow ahead."
It was guaranteed by Russia and America and the UK initially, and then by France and China subsequently, in 1994.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

It was then reaffirmed in 2009, just 5 years before Russia annexed the Crimea.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ukraine-nuclear-weapons-and-security-assurances-glance

You couldn't make up what's happened to them since. Like in all walks of life there are countries out there who haven't the word of dogs.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16863 - 18/08/2025 09:45:39    2632402

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Replying To Viking66:  "The Ukrainians were guaranteed their borders and safety by the Americans and Russians in return for giving up their nukes. It's not hard to see why they are p###ed off now."
In 1994 the relationship between Russia and Ukraine appeared rock solid. They were joined together in a connection that was as strong if not stronger than the union between England and Scotland. Ethnic Russians from Eastern Ukraine that were loyal to Russia (stooges if you prefer!) were governing the country. In that context, giving up the nukes to "mother Russia" was no big deal as the country was facing east at the time and seeing Russia as its natural protector. It was the big switch it made later, first of all 2008 when the US laid out a pathway for Ukraine's membership of NATO (which at the time Putin stated was a red line issue for Russia) but more particularly the popular revolutions they had in 2012 (I think) and 2014, which radically changed the political direction of the country from being Russia-orientated to being West- facing. Ukraine in the 1990's/ early noughties had some similarities to Ireland pre the 1916 revolution....the majority quite ok with the status quo of Russian hegemony but with half the territory of the country unhappy with it too and it only needing a spark to set everything off.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2068 - 18/08/2025 10:19:42    2632407

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "In 1994 the relationship between Russia and Ukraine appeared rock solid. They were joined together in a connection that was as strong if not stronger than the union between England and Scotland. Ethnic Russians from Eastern Ukraine that were loyal to Russia (stooges if you prefer!) were governing the country. In that context, giving up the nukes to "mother Russia" was no big deal as the country was facing east at the time and seeing Russia as its natural protector. It was the big switch it made later, first of all 2008 when the US laid out a pathway for Ukraine's membership of NATO (which at the time Putin stated was a red line issue for Russia) but more particularly the popular revolutions they had in 2012 (I think) and 2014, which radically changed the political direction of the country from being Russia-orientated to being West- facing. Ukraine in the 1990's/ early noughties had some similarities to Ireland pre the 1916 revolution....the majority quite ok with the status quo of Russian hegemony but with half the territory of the country unhappy with it too and it only needing a spark to set everything off."
Spot on analysis PS. But that's why it's important that the US, France and UK honour their obligations. They have encouraged the Ukrainians on the path they chose away from Russia.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16863 - 18/08/2025 11:08:25    2632421

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Replying To Viking66:  "Spot on analysis PS. But that's why it's important that the US, France and UK honour their obligations. They have encouraged the Ukrainians on the path they chose away from Russia."
Knowing the history of our own country I wouldn't have much faith in the UK being an honest broker, they have left a trail of destruction across the globe,

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 411 - 18/08/2025 13:20:35    2632463

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I hope Zelensky has the manners to at least wear a suit tomorrow in Washington, dress to impress as they say, the t-shirt kid act is worn out at this stage.
Funny how our media has been telling us for years that the Russians were losing, I think if the truth be told the Ukrainians are just about hanging on at this stage fighting this proxy NATO war."
There's a serious deficit in knowledge of Russia's circumtances by a lot of people as is seen by this post. Their economy is tiny in comparison to the EU or US or any of the bigger nations. Its smaller than Spains, and its on its knees already.
If the US had someone competent in charge and issued proper santions as well, like they pathetically treathened, Russia's economy would collapes in weeks.
But unfortunately it wont happen, its almost like Putin has something that keeps Trump under his tumb, i wonder what that could be?
On a completely different subject, its all gone very quiet in the media this week regards the whole Eptein affair, isnt it?

On top of all that Russsia are losing allies, Iran wont be in a rush to help in future thats for sure. North Korea sent men to bolster numbers and they were sent poorly trained to the front line and became cannon fooder. Not to mention war fatigue putting on pressure at home.
Make no mistake, Zelensky has played a blinder dealing with Putin on one side and an idiot on the other, Russia is also under enormous pressure, but for now at least Putin has Trump sitting on his lap.

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 172 - 18/08/2025 14:40:47    2632488

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Replying To cuttothebone:  "There's a serious deficit in knowledge of Russia's circumtances by a lot of people as is seen by this post. Their economy is tiny in comparison to the EU or US or any of the bigger nations. Its smaller than Spains, and its on its knees already.
If the US had someone competent in charge and issued proper santions as well, like they pathetically treathened, Russia's economy would collapes in weeks.
But unfortunately it wont happen, its almost like Putin has something that keeps Trump under his tumb, i wonder what that could be?
On a completely different subject, its all gone very quiet in the media this week regards the whole Eptein affair, isnt it?

On top of all that Russsia are losing allies, Iran wont be in a rush to help in future thats for sure. North Korea sent men to bolster numbers and they were sent poorly trained to the front line and became cannon fooder. Not to mention war fatigue putting on pressure at home.
Make no mistake, Zelensky has played a blinder dealing with Putin on one side and an idiot on the other, Russia is also under enormous pressure, but for now at least Putin has Trump sitting on his lap."
Rumours of a certain " golden shower" spring to mind ?

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1816 - 18/08/2025 15:43:40    2632502

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Zelensky about to have his "Michael Collins" moment, I hope he doesn't lose his nerve like the "Big Fella" did.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 411 - 18/08/2025 18:31:05    2632529

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