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Replying To Freethinker:  "Very interesting question re the worlds major religions. I would ask another one. What would the world resemble if the different religions hadn't been hijacked over the millennia by bloodthirsty and power hungry emperors and despots. In my opinion, the propagation of the various religions was always a smokescreen for land and assets grabs. Look at the way Mr Putin cosied up to the leader of the Orthodox Church when he first decided that Russia's "strategic" interests were more important than Ukraines right to self determination. And there have other such scenes over the centuries. The Crusades were another example."
Was discussing this subject with a friend earlier. Most religions are actually pretty good as regards values/morals/guidelines on living a good life, it's human beings #### the whole thing up.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13997 - 21/11/2024 11:31:57    2580552

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I do not support any political party; however, I do vote for all on my voting ticket in order of choice / preference using the PR system, there's a little bit of a contradiction there because by me voting for the candidate only I am indirectly voting for that person's party.

Our democracy in every sense of the word is more honest / acceptable than most other countries imo, our system is not rigged either but perhaps it may be flexed a little from time to time but rarely.

I watched with interest the party leaders' interview with Collette Fitzpatrick last night, in this instance the leader was Sinn Fein's Mary Lou Mc Donald.

- - - - Interesting.

Question. - What excuse will the super powers or indeed any other country have for starting wars when religion is finally eradicated.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3070 - 21/11/2024 12:00:59    2580555

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Ireland are neutral.

We won't need to pull our weight.

Europe (NATO), with or without the US, would wipe the floor with Russia if it came to it."
What about protecting our own waters and air space? Only last few days the Russians were fishing around again. We have very sensitive deep sea cables making landfall here. We have obligations. Are you happy the RAF are protecting us? Ireland are seen as a joke and freeloaders in the eyes of the international community.

Ireland is not neutral and never has been.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11418 - 21/11/2024 14:01:32    2580576

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Replying To yew_tree:  "What about protecting our own waters and air space? Only last few days the Russians were fishing around again. We have very sensitive deep sea cables making landfall here. We have obligations. Are you happy the RAF are protecting us? Ireland are seen as a joke and freeloaders in the eyes of the international community.

Ireland is not neutral and never has been."
Militarily, we are neutral.

What's your suggestion? Purchase some ships and subs and go confront the Russians?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 21/11/2024 14:47:50    2580593

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Replying To cavanman47:  "I agree the numbers will pan out similarly to how you've outlined.

SF will do slightly better than current estimates and Independent Ireland will do considerably better than forecasted.

But I do think FF/FG will lead the next government and my point is that this wouldn't happen if things weren't going well, on the whole, in this country."
Things are going well from my perspective but I suppose depending on your situation things may not be going so well, if your stuck paying a fortune for rent and can't see any prospect of ever buying or building a house then maybe things look a lot different for people like that.
If your living in a town that barely had the services to cope with the existing population, maybe your Garda station and Post office were closed down and then you get a few hundred asylum seekers landed into your area then you'd be pretty annoyed with the way the things are being run etc.
Maybe if you have first hand experience of our AE services in our hospitals are on a waiting list for a long time you might have a different view of how things are being run etc etc.
I thin the Gov would have done a lot better but for the Greens, I think FF/FG with maybe independent Ireland and maybe a few others from the FF/FG gene pool would be able to do things better still.
I think the planning system needs to be looked at to give people from rural Ireland a better chance for their children to build houses on their own land, also there should be planning required for these IPAS centres and local people should have a say in it the same as any other housing development.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3044 - 21/11/2024 16:08:32    2580607

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Militarily, we are neutral.

What's your suggestion? Purchase some ships and subs and go confront the Russians?"
Have enough equipment and personal to be able at least know who's fishing in or off our waters. We should have sonar/radar and more ships. An air force is coming in 2027 with the air corp to be disbanded and not before time. People give out about the Americans and British but we are in effect sheltered by them and the EU. We should be pulling our weight.

It's not about confronting anyone. That's childish.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11418 - 21/11/2024 16:25:19    2580612

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Have enough equipment and personal to be able at least know who's fishing in or off our waters. We should have sonar/radar and more ships. An air force is coming in 2027 with the air corp to be disbanded and not before time. People give out about the Americans and British but we are in effect sheltered by them and the EU. We should be pulling our weight.

It's not about confronting anyone. That's childish."
I've often wondered if those who extoll the virtues of being "neutral" really appreciate the reality of modern geo-politics. As stated above, we are unable to police our waters to protect those strategic underwater cables and rely on other countries armed forces to carry that out, can we expect and still parade our neutrality . In the event that the unthinkable ever happens and a nuclear bomb/s explode in the UK or France, will we be able to persuade the destruction to bypass us because we are neutral. Just a couple of questions on just two points. And, by the way, I have no strong views on the matter either way.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1280 - 21/11/2024 18:32:06    2580636

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Have enough equipment and personal to be able at least know who's fishing in or off our waters. We should have sonar/radar and more ships. An air force is coming in 2027 with the air corp to be disbanded and not before time. People give out about the Americans and British but we are in effect sheltered by them and the EU. We should be pulling our weight.

It's not about confronting anyone. That's childish."
You're Ireland's answer to Trump. A European army is the worst thing we could possibly be part of.

A significant increase in focus on defence is akin to a declaration of war. Absolute madness.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3172 - 21/11/2024 19:08:25    2580640

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "You're Ireland's answer to Trump. A European army is the worst thing we could possibly be part of.

A significant increase in focus on defence is akin to a declaration of war. Absolute madness."
So you reckon the EU should continue to live under American protection? I've seen many commentators saying the US should have zero presence and **** off home. Fair enough but what you gonna replace them with? Trump is going to dismantle NATO. I ain't no Trump fan but keep the childish comments coming.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11418 - 22/11/2024 11:06:42    2580693

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I've often wondered if those who extoll the virtues of being "neutral" really appreciate the reality of modern geo-politics. As stated above, we are unable to police our waters to protect those strategic underwater cables and rely on other countries armed forces to carry that out, can we expect and still parade our neutrality . In the event that the unthinkable ever happens and a nuclear bomb/s explode in the UK or France, will we be able to persuade the destruction to bypass us because we are neutral. Just a couple of questions on just two points. And, by the way, I have no strong views on the matter either way."
There are people living in cloud cuckoo land with the like of Daly and Wallace. Yea sure let Putin take some of Ukraine…what's next?

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11418 - 22/11/2024 11:08:21    2580694

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Once we join the military-industrial complex there'd be no turning back. I'd rather us being somewhat vulnerable than obliged to murder children thousands of miles away

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12208 - 22/11/2024 11:28:28    2580699

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Replying To yew_tree:  "There are people living in cloud cuckoo land with the like of Daly and Wallace. Yea sure let Putin take some of Ukraine…what's next?"
I don't think Russia ever had any interest in expanding the conflict outside Ukraine but the way they are attacking Russia now with UK and American missiles this thing good get seriously out of control very quick,
I don't think Putin is bluffing, to my mind Trump can't get into the Whitehouse quick enough to hopefully deescalate this thing, and Trump is always the bad guy to some.
Looks to me like Biden was huffed first by being dumped by the Democrats and then by Trumps landslide victory that he decided to leave as big a mess behind him as he could for Trump to clean up.
Sick of the Americans myself sticking their nose into things all over the world and their support of the genocide in Gaza unfolding before the eyes of the world they have no credibility left imo.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3044 - 22/11/2024 13:34:48    2580715

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I don't think Russia ever had any interest in expanding the conflict outside Ukraine but the way they are attacking Russia now with UK and American missiles this thing good get seriously out of control very quick,
I don't think Putin is bluffing, to my mind Trump can't get into the Whitehouse quick enough to hopefully deescalate this thing, and Trump is always the bad guy to some.
Looks to me like Biden was huffed first by being dumped by the Democrats and then by Trumps landslide victory that he decided to leave as big a mess behind him as he could for Trump to clean up.
Sick of the Americans myself sticking their nose into things all over the world and their support of the genocide in Gaza unfolding before the eyes of the world they have no credibility left imo."
I agree with you 100%

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3172 - 22/11/2024 14:42:05    2580724

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Replying To yew_tree:  "So you reckon the EU should continue to live under American protection? I've seen many commentators saying the US should have zero presence and **** off home. Fair enough but what you gonna replace them with? Trump is going to dismantle NATO. I ain't no Trump fan but keep the childish comments coming."
Be realistic. We're not capable of defending ourselves in this type of conflict. We simply don't have the resources or numbers and we're massively exposed. Nothing good will come from us posturing for war.

I for one am terrified with the prospect of the UK holding up a big target for Putin now. I don't believe he has any appetite for expansion outside of the former Soviet Union. The west shouldn't be getting involved.

Like Reagan before him, Biden is far more likely to end our civilization for the sake of saying my **** is bigger than yours than the Russians.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3172 - 22/11/2024 14:46:24    2580727

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I don't think Russia ever had any interest in expanding the conflict outside Ukraine but the way they are attacking Russia now with UK and American missiles this thing good get seriously out of control very quick,
I don't think Putin is bluffing, to my mind Trump can't get into the Whitehouse quick enough to hopefully deescalate this thing, and Trump is always the bad guy to some.
Looks to me like Biden was huffed first by being dumped by the Democrats and then by Trumps landslide victory that he decided to leave as big a mess behind him as he could for Trump to clean up.
Sick of the Americans myself sticking their nose into things all over the world and their support of the genocide in Gaza unfolding before the eyes of the world they have no credibility left imo."
Firstly, Trump didn't have a landslide victory, he got less than 51% of the vote.

Secondly, Trump has no interest per se in de-escalation, only if it suits him. He hasn't been banging the phone to Netanyahu to de-escalate.
Trump does have an inordinate interest in dictators and their modus operandi, particularly Putin who he is obviously in thrall to. Trump is a Russian asset and will be played easily by Putin.

Americans do indeed have a history of sticking their noses into things all over the world (as do the Russians of course). But like a stopped clock, they're right the odd time and Ukraine is one of those rare times, the only pity is that they didn't support the Ukrainians wholeheartedly from Day One.

IronSleeve (Leitrim) - Posts: 20 - 22/11/2024 17:31:04    2580753

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Be realistic. We're not capable of defending ourselves in this type of conflict. We simply don't have the resources or numbers and we're massively exposed. Nothing good will come from us posturing for war.

I for one am terrified with the prospect of the UK holding up a big target for Putin now. I don't believe he has any appetite for expansion outside of the former Soviet Union. The west shouldn't be getting involved.

Like Reagan before him, Biden is far more likely to end our civilization for the sake of saying my **** is bigger than yours than the Russians."
Problem with that is that the old Soviet Union stretches well into the EU. And Putin mentioned how far he saw Russia traditionally extending to in his interview with Tucker Carlson. (Not far from the German border).

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 23/11/2024 00:38:17    2580783

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Replying To IronSleeve:  "Firstly, Trump didn't have a landslide victory, he got less than 51% of the vote.

Secondly, Trump has no interest per se in de-escalation, only if it suits him. He hasn't been banging the phone to Netanyahu to de-escalate.
Trump does have an inordinate interest in dictators and their modus operandi, particularly Putin who he is obviously in thrall to. Trump is a Russian asset and will be played easily by Putin.

Americans do indeed have a history of sticking their noses into things all over the world (as do the Russians of course). But like a stopped clock, they're right the odd time and Ukraine is one of those rare times, the only pity is that they didn't support the Ukrainians wholeheartedly from Day One."
So you think the US are only correct on rare occasions ?
Imagine the world you'd be living in if they didn't get involved !!!
They are the first phone made by every country in the free world whenever there is a conflict.
I live in the US and have to laugh at some of the comments and so called facts posted on here, just because you have a soup box to stand on doesn't mean you are correct.
Every time I go home to Ireland all I hear is how the politicians are doing nothing, should be thrown out, no good, false promises and on and on. But when a country decides to vote out their leadership for those same reasons you have a problem with it.
There was a debate the other night where there were "10" different leaders which is absolutely ridiculous and you'll still vote for the same old politicians and then complain about it till some party in a crazy coalition decides to opt out and start the whole process over again.
Trump wants to document people coming through the border. What's wrong with that ? Aren't Ireland trying to do the same thing.
Trump wants to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US. Doesn't every country want that for themselves. Didn't Ireland have an advertising campaign to buy Irish and guaranteed Irish.
Trump wants to open up the gas & oil lines again which Biden shut down his first day in office. Just because you stop producing and import the gas and oil does not make any difference to the environment.

nails (Galway) - Posts: 30 - 23/11/2024 11:52:49    2580804

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Replying To nails:  "So you think the US are only correct on rare occasions ?
Imagine the world you'd be living in if they didn't get involved !!!
They are the first phone made by every country in the free world whenever there is a conflict.
I live in the US and have to laugh at some of the comments and so called facts posted on here, just because you have a soup box to stand on doesn't mean you are correct.
Every time I go home to Ireland all I hear is how the politicians are doing nothing, should be thrown out, no good, false promises and on and on. But when a country decides to vote out their leadership for those same reasons you have a problem with it.
There was a debate the other night where there were "10" different leaders which is absolutely ridiculous and you'll still vote for the same old politicians and then complain about it till some party in a crazy coalition decides to opt out and start the whole process over again.
Trump wants to document people coming through the border. What's wrong with that ? Aren't Ireland trying to do the same thing.
Trump wants to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US. Doesn't every country want that for themselves. Didn't Ireland have an advertising campaign to buy Irish and guaranteed Irish.
Trump wants to open up the gas & oil lines again which Biden shut down his first day in office. Just because you stop producing and import the gas and oil does not make any difference to the environment."
Our PR system beyond your simplistic Americanised mind obviously.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1975 - 23/11/2024 12:52:12    2580812

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Replying To nails:  "So you think the US are only correct on rare occasions ?
Imagine the world you'd be living in if they didn't get involved !!!
They are the first phone made by every country in the free world whenever there is a conflict.
I live in the US and have to laugh at some of the comments and so called facts posted on here, just because you have a soup box to stand on doesn't mean you are correct.
Every time I go home to Ireland all I hear is how the politicians are doing nothing, should be thrown out, no good, false promises and on and on. But when a country decides to vote out their leadership for those same reasons you have a problem with it.
There was a debate the other night where there were "10" different leaders which is absolutely ridiculous and you'll still vote for the same old politicians and then complain about it till some party in a crazy coalition decides to opt out and start the whole process over again.
Trump wants to document people coming through the border. What's wrong with that ? Aren't Ireland trying to do the same thing.
Trump wants to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US. Doesn't every country want that for themselves. Didn't Ireland have an advertising campaign to buy Irish and guaranteed Irish.
Trump wants to open up the gas & oil lines again which Biden shut down his first day in office. Just because you stop producing and import the gas and oil does not make any difference to the environment."
A lot in what you say. I was watching Piers Morgan on tv last night. Never had much time for him, but when you just listen to what he has to say, rather than the sound bites attributed to him , it's hard to dismiss all he says.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1280 - 23/11/2024 13:42:56    2580818

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Our PR system beyond your simplistic Americanised mind obviously."
Good man, that's the spirit. Same attitude that got the democrats ousted by the simplistic American minds.

nails (Galway) - Posts: 30 - 23/11/2024 17:32:16    2580845

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