National Forum

Non-Gaa Forum

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Very true… no point in talking about full employment if the money paid is eaten up with inflation and the rising cost of living… FG/FF have failed miserably in the areas of housing and health…In the last 30 years absolutely nothing has changed.. is it any wonder the young people are leaving in droves… most leaving have jobs here but can't make ends meet.. Our succession of Governments have been an absolute disgrace with all their empty promises and targets… They will probably break anyone left with their nonsensical climate change targets they are trying to achieve which will make not a bit of difference…"
Yeah the climate stuff is laughable really when you consider that the government is apparently going "all-in" with the more data centers approach.

In 2023, the consulting company Bitpower put the number of datacentres in Ireland at 82. Ireland's Central Statistics Office reported in 2021 that these centres were using up to 18% of the country's metered electricity, the same amount as every urban household in Ireland combined. It's suggested that if all the datacentres currently proposed in Ireland are built, they could be using up to 70% of the country's electricity by 2030.

But yeah, wash out your plastic containers and stuff before recycling.

I'm not a climate change denier by the way, just that what the likes of Eamon Ryan are proposing we do vs what the above government plans are doesn't really compute.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 15/02/2024 10:57:04    2526163

Link

Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yeah good points. I wouldn't like to be starting out again as a graduate and trying to save towards buying a house. In many cases it'd be near impossible, especially living in the cities.
The immigration issue isn't going away so there needs to be a lot more thought put into it than simply sticking a load of people into some random hotel in a rural area like you say.

My point is that the anger and frustration is misdirected. Successive government failure has caused a lot of the problems and yet I could almost guarantee you that it will be the same FF/FG, or some flavour of that, which will emerge after the next general election. It's like the priest in Father Ted, "Is there anything to be said for having another mass?""
However there are few things that people leave out - politicians are temporary - the civil service is permanent. For years the cs was used as an employment service for politicians - perhaps one more than the other so do we have the right people in the right places?
Parliamentary Democracy - people vote for the candidates that will solve their problems not everyone's else's. I wouldn't blame Tony Gregory for it but perhaps that showed people the way, ensuring that now a few people hold more responsibility than they ever should, which results in parish pump policies. Perhaps a Executive Presidential system would be better but the US is hardly the poster boy for that either. Or Singapore where you have a parliament but a very small d.
Everyone wants the government to do something on housing as long as it doesn't have any negative impact for them so you end up with compromises which mean half baked efforts. Perhaps at the end of the day the problem is Democracy.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 15/02/2024 11:17:22    2526169

Link

The immigration dispute is a really bad look for Ireland. There is a cohort of really greedy , selfish people in Ireland who forget that there are so many Irish people who emigrated to the USA/Australia and elsewhere to make better lives. The talk of Ireland being full is a total myth, Ireland's population is several million lower it was during the 1840s for example.

Since partition the Republic for all its faults has been a success story. Look at the mess the North is currently in. The Republic has a surplus of cash currently while the North under British rule is virtually bankrupt. The British now want the NI executive to raise extra funds through water charges/ rent rises despite the cost of living crisis. I understand the housing crisis in the Republic but I think this is largely down to greedy landlords charging exorbitant rents. Ireland is doing well economically but people are too greedy to see this.

Fine Gael/ Fianna Fail are morally bankrupt. This is shown by their weak response to the terrible events in Palestine. They have not done enough to support the Palestinians. Ireland is flooded with American companies who are only here because they can pay low rates of tax. Although this is important for jobs you could say Ireland has sold its soul to achieve prosperity. It is not the Ireland envisaged by the revolutionaries. Too many people are just interested in themselves instead of achieving a socialist 32 Republic which would benefit everyone.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 15/02/2024 11:28:50    2526171

Link

Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "The immigration dispute is a really bad look for Ireland. There is a cohort of really greedy , selfish people in Ireland who forget that there are so many Irish people who emigrated to the USA/Australia and elsewhere to make better lives. The talk of Ireland being full is a total myth, Ireland's population is several million lower it was during the 1840s for example.

Since partition the Republic for all its faults has been a success story. Look at the mess the North is currently in. The Republic has a surplus of cash currently while the North under British rule is virtually bankrupt. The British now want the NI executive to raise extra funds through water charges/ rent rises despite the cost of living crisis. I understand the housing crisis in the Republic but I think this is largely down to greedy landlords charging exorbitant rents. Ireland is doing well economically but people are too greedy to see this.

Fine Gael/ Fianna Fail are morally bankrupt. This is shown by their weak response to the terrible events in Palestine. They have not done enough to support the Palestinians. Ireland is flooded with American companies who are only here because they can pay low rates of tax. Although this is important for jobs you could say Ireland has sold its soul to achieve prosperity. It is not the Ireland envisaged by the revolutionaries. Too many people are just interested in themselves instead of achieving a socialist 32 Republic which would benefit everyone."
I'm fairness I don't know anyone personally against immigration. I know plenty against illegal immigration.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 15/02/2024 13:56:14    2526196

Link

Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "The immigration dispute is a really bad look for Ireland. There is a cohort of really greedy , selfish people in Ireland who forget that there are so many Irish people who emigrated to the USA/Australia and elsewhere to make better lives. The talk of Ireland being full is a total myth, Ireland's population is several million lower it was during the 1840s for example.

Since partition the Republic for all its faults has been a success story. Look at the mess the North is currently in. The Republic has a surplus of cash currently while the North under British rule is virtually bankrupt. The British now want the NI executive to raise extra funds through water charges/ rent rises despite the cost of living crisis. I understand the housing crisis in the Republic but I think this is largely down to greedy landlords charging exorbitant rents. Ireland is doing well economically but people are too greedy to see this.

Fine Gael/ Fianna Fail are morally bankrupt. This is shown by their weak response to the terrible events in Palestine. They have not done enough to support the Palestinians. Ireland is flooded with American companies who are only here because they can pay low rates of tax. Although this is important for jobs you could say Ireland has sold its soul to achieve prosperity. It is not the Ireland envisaged by the revolutionaries. Too many people are just interested in themselves instead of achieving a socialist 32 Republic which would benefit everyone."
Just for clarity the population of Ireland in the 1840's was 8.5 million , the population now is 7.5 million.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 274 - 15/02/2024 14:28:45    2526207

Link

Replying To yew_tree:  "I'm fairness I don't know anyone personally against immigration. I know plenty against illegal immigration."
The people who are talking about a second colonisation are talking rubbish though. The people coming to Ireland are trying to get a reasonable standard of living and are often escaping wars and conflicts etc. Yet the same people are not worried about the real imperialism on this island of Irish citizens living under the yoke of British oppression in the North. Why are people not interested in ending partition?? It wasn't the ideal of the signatories of the proclamation to create a 26 County state in perpetuity surely?? Surely ending partition should be a key goal of the people of Ireland if sovereignty is so important??

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 15/02/2024 14:44:47    2526213

Link

Replying To yew_tree:  "I'm fairness I don't know anyone personally against immigration. I know plenty against illegal immigration."
Yeah I think most Irish people are decent and fair-minded. We have regularly shown empathy and compasssion for various causes over the years. But people are frustrated and angry and unfortunately immigrants make a soft handy target.

The latest fiasco with RTE and the €450k golden handshake given to Breda O'Keeffe is yet another **** take example. Then they expect people to pay for TV licenses.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 15/02/2024 15:03:31    2526217

Link

Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "The immigration dispute is a really bad look for Ireland. There is a cohort of really greedy , selfish people in Ireland who forget that there are so many Irish people who emigrated to the USA/Australia and elsewhere to make better lives. The talk of Ireland being full is a total myth, Ireland's population is several million lower it was during the 1840s for example.

Since partition the Republic for all its faults has been a success story. Look at the mess the North is currently in. The Republic has a surplus of cash currently while the North under British rule is virtually bankrupt. The British now want the NI executive to raise extra funds through water charges/ rent rises despite the cost of living crisis. I understand the housing crisis in the Republic but I think this is largely down to greedy landlords charging exorbitant rents. Ireland is doing well economically but people are too greedy to see this.

Fine Gael/ Fianna Fail are morally bankrupt. This is shown by their weak response to the terrible events in Palestine. They have not done enough to support the Palestinians. Ireland is flooded with American companies who are only here because they can pay low rates of tax. Although this is important for jobs you could say Ireland has sold its soul to achieve prosperity. It is not the Ireland envisaged by the revolutionaries. Too many people are just interested in themselves instead of achieving a socialist 32 Republic which would benefit everyone."
I think a lot of people would not be happy with a 32 county socialist republic. To have a 32 county Republic, you need to persuade your neighbours in Northern Ireland to agree to unity.
You agree the Republic has been a success, this was achieved by all the Governments over the years, including those led by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. Two parties you claim to be morally bankrupt, they must have got something right in the past century.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1735 - 15/02/2024 15:14:41    2526219

Link

Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "The immigration dispute is a really bad look for Ireland. There is a cohort of really greedy , selfish people in Ireland who forget that there are so many Irish people who emigrated to the USA/Australia and elsewhere to make better lives. The talk of Ireland being full is a total myth, Ireland's population is several million lower it was during the 1840s for example.

Since partition the Republic for all its faults has been a success story. Look at the mess the North is currently in. The Republic has a surplus of cash currently while the North under British rule is virtually bankrupt. The British now want the NI executive to raise extra funds through water charges/ rent rises despite the cost of living crisis. I understand the housing crisis in the Republic but I think this is largely down to greedy landlords charging exorbitant rents. Ireland is doing well economically but people are too greedy to see this.

Fine Gael/ Fianna Fail are morally bankrupt. This is shown by their weak response to the terrible events in Palestine. They have not done enough to support the Palestinians. Ireland is flooded with American companies who are only here because they can pay low rates of tax. Although this is important for jobs you could say Ireland has sold its soul to achieve prosperity. It is not the Ireland envisaged by the revolutionaries. Too many people are just interested in themselves instead of achieving a socialist 32 Republic which would benefit everyone."
Irish people did emigrate and were treated terribly. They succeeded in spite of these countries not because of them.

US companies aren't only here for low tax either. They're here because of excellent digital infrastructure, and the best educated, most productive workforce in Europe.

I do agree with you on the moral point though.

I've always felt an overwhelming sense of guilt for abandoning our brothers in the North when they suffer.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 15/02/2024 15:19:34    2526220

Link

Replying To zinny:  "However there are few things that people leave out - politicians are temporary - the civil service is permanent. For years the cs was used as an employment service for politicians - perhaps one more than the other so do we have the right people in the right places?
Parliamentary Democracy - people vote for the candidates that will solve their problems not everyone's else's. I wouldn't blame Tony Gregory for it but perhaps that showed people the way, ensuring that now a few people hold more responsibility than they ever should, which results in parish pump policies. Perhaps a Executive Presidential system would be better but the US is hardly the poster boy for that either. Or Singapore where you have a parliament but a very small d.
Everyone wants the government to do something on housing as long as it doesn't have any negative impact for them so you end up with compromises which mean half baked efforts. Perhaps at the end of the day the problem is Democracy."
The problem I think is a lack of understanding and engagement with the system.

The theory of democracy is the best we have.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 15/02/2024 15:21:15    2526222

Link

Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yeah the climate stuff is laughable really when you consider that the government is apparently going "all-in" with the more data centers approach.

In 2023, the consulting company Bitpower put the number of datacentres in Ireland at 82. Ireland's Central Statistics Office reported in 2021 that these centres were using up to 18% of the country's metered electricity, the same amount as every urban household in Ireland combined. It's suggested that if all the datacentres currently proposed in Ireland are built, they could be using up to 70% of the country's electricity by 2030.

But yeah, wash out your plastic containers and stuff before recycling.

I'm not a climate change denier by the way, just that what the likes of Eamon Ryan are proposing we do vs what the above government plans are doesn't really compute."
Great point.

Climate issues are for the rich.

Maybe start with air travel and SUVs that are too large for our road network.

A majority of our population are too worried about housing, healthcare and school places to give a hoot about plastic bottles and rightly so.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 15/02/2024 15:24:41    2526223

Link

Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "The immigration dispute is a really bad look for Ireland. There is a cohort of really greedy , selfish people in Ireland who forget that there are so many Irish people who emigrated to the USA/Australia and elsewhere to make better lives. The talk of Ireland being full is a total myth, Ireland's population is several million lower it was during the 1840s for example.

Since partition the Republic for all its faults has been a success story. Look at the mess the North is currently in. The Republic has a surplus of cash currently while the North under British rule is virtually bankrupt. The British now want the NI executive to raise extra funds through water charges/ rent rises despite the cost of living crisis. I understand the housing crisis in the Republic but I think this is largely down to greedy landlords charging exorbitant rents. Ireland is doing well economically but people are too greedy to see this.

Fine Gael/ Fianna Fail are morally bankrupt. This is shown by their weak response to the terrible events in Palestine. They have not done enough to support the Palestinians. Ireland is flooded with American companies who are only here because they can pay low rates of tax. Although this is important for jobs you could say Ireland has sold its soul to achieve prosperity. It is not the Ireland envisaged by the revolutionaries. Too many people are just interested in themselves instead of achieving a socialist 32 Republic which would benefit everyone."
"Too many people are just interested in themselves instead of achieving a socialist 32 Republic which would benefit everyone."

That is certainly one way to convince both Irish and non-Irish to leave permanantly. Eastern Europeans didn't move to Ireland to adopt another version of socialism. Multinationals will leave and the Yanks plus a good chunk of the EU will turn their back on Ireland.

Ireland has a housing crisis like many countries and the Gov are responsible for that but we have one of the highest quality of life in the world. You and a lot of people in here need to get outside and touch grass.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 15/02/2024 15:58:48    2526229

Link

I yearn for the day when Ireland is re- united but talk of a "Socialist Republic" makes a lot of people uneasy. I think you will find most people in Ireland are middle of the road when it comes to politics. I tend to be wary of political parties that belong to the Far Left or the Far Right, that's why Sinn Fein will position themselves as a centralist party in the coming years.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 274 - 15/02/2024 16:31:34    2526234

Link

Replying To Rolo2010:  ""Too many people are just interested in themselves instead of achieving a socialist 32 Republic which would benefit everyone."

That is certainly one way to convince both Irish and non-Irish to leave permanantly. Eastern Europeans didn't move to Ireland to adopt another version of socialism. Multinationals will leave and the Yanks plus a good chunk of the EU will turn their back on Ireland.

Ireland has a housing crisis like many countries and the Gov are responsible for that but we have one of the highest quality of life in the world. You and a lot of people in here need to get outside and touch grass."
Most of Europe are socialist countries including us......

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 15/02/2024 16:37:49    2526235

Link

Replying To Rolo2010:  ""Too many people are just interested in themselves instead of achieving a socialist 32 Republic which would benefit everyone."

That is certainly one way to convince both Irish and non-Irish to leave permanantly. Eastern Europeans didn't move to Ireland to adopt another version of socialism. Multinationals will leave and the Yanks plus a good chunk of the EU will turn their back on Ireland.

Ireland has a housing crisis like many countries and the Gov are responsible for that but we have one of the highest quality of life in the world. You and a lot of people in here need to get outside and touch grass."
I agree with you that things could be a lot worse in this country. But that doesn't mean we should just sit back and let things slide either. Look at the MICA crisis in our own county. What a complete shit-show. Families driven to the brink and having to scrap for everything when they should be fully redressed without question.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 15/02/2024 16:38:23    2526236

Link

Replying To thelongridge:  "I think a lot of people would not be happy with a 32 county socialist republic. To have a 32 county Republic, you need to persuade your neighbours in Northern Ireland to agree to unity.
You agree the Republic has been a success, this was achieved by all the Governments over the years, including those led by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. Two parties you claim to be morally bankrupt, they must have got something right in the past century."
You need to define success. It has certainly been a financial success.

Morality is another matter altogether.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 15/02/2024 16:40:53    2526237

Link

Replying To thelongridge:  "I think a lot of people would not be happy with a 32 county socialist republic. To have a 32 county Republic, you need to persuade your neighbours in Northern Ireland to agree to unity.
You agree the Republic has been a success, this was achieved by all the Governments over the years, including those led by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. Two parties you claim to be morally bankrupt, they must have got something right in the past century."
What does a socialist republic mean? More likely to be a federal 32 county state with a new flag and anthem.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 15/02/2024 17:07:54    2526240

Link

Replying To yew_tree:  "What does a socialist republic mean? More likely to be a federal 32 county state with a new flag and anthem."
Our flag already represents them.

The one they adore does not

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 15/02/2024 17:31:46    2526242

Link

Replying To Doylerwex:  "Our flag already represents them.

The one they adore does not"
It doesnt and cant with how its been used for years by certain people though....

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3499 - 15/02/2024 18:30:17    2526250

Link

Replying To Doylerwex:  "Most of Europe are socialist countries including us......"
Most countries are not socialist. The EU itself is very big on free market capitalism.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 15/02/2024 18:33:11    2526251

Link