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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Why don't they leave then?

A quarter of the 26 counties GDP is taken out of the state by the way. It is now impossible for most working people to buy their own house on one income. A society is more than what suits multi nationals."
By just about every single indicator used, the 26 counties are rated as a better place to live than the 6.

The NHS was the last outlier and it caved during Covid and need HSE assistance - that's how bad it got!

Why won't they leave?
1. The unionists value their union above the prosperity of their children and grandchildren.

2. The moderate middle don't want a return to violence.

3. A lack of understanding of just how prosperous the region would become in a UI. The discussion hasn't been entertained seriously at political level because FF/FG don't have a presence in the North that could be relied on in an all ireland election.


As for your last sentence; the multi-nationals certainly cream off the top here (legally), no question. But the secondary jobs tied to their presence here is almost immeasurable. Do you want to go back to the 1980s??

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 13/12/2023 14:58:20    2516618

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I'm a nationalist, but I respect the unionists placing some things above "prosperity" which is all relative anyway. I do not consider myself more prosperous than my parents and only one of them worked and they owned their own house before he retired! And he had average working class job.

We have mobile phones and 100s of TV channels. Dogs and prisoners have more stuff now than they used to in 80s as well :-)

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2525 - 13/12/2023 18:40:08    2516652

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I'm a nationalist, but I respect the unionists placing some things above "prosperity" which is all relative anyway. I do not consider myself more prosperous than my parents and only one of them worked and they owned their own house before he retired! And he had average working class job.

We have mobile phones and 100s of TV channels. Dogs and prisoners have more stuff now than they used to in 80s as well :-)"
Ponder this... The first generation in the history of capitalism to be better educated and financially worse off than our parents

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 13/12/2023 21:17:36    2516670

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Ponder this... The first generation in the history of capitalism to be better educated and financially worse off than our parents"
Yes. Sad but true. And aside from the fact that the richest 3% have the biggest slice by far the other problem with the Adam Smith larger pie is that eventually it gets so bloated it explodes as in 2008.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 14/12/2023 09:31:28    2516702

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Ponder this... The first generation in the history of capitalism to be better educated and financially worse off than our parents"
Ask your parents about the 1980s.
16% interest rates, 58% PAYE, Queues at the American Embassy looking for Visas, the "magic bus" to London to try and make a living.....

Then before uts too late ask your grandparents about the 1950s when 500,000 people got out of the State....

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1404 - 14/12/2023 10:11:19    2516710

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Ask your parents about the 1980s.
16% interest rates, 58% PAYE, Queues at the American Embassy looking for Visas, the "magic bus" to London to try and make a living.....

Then before uts too late ask your grandparents about the 1950s when 500,000 people got out of the State...."
I think that's the point Doylerwex was making. The 1930s were worse again. The 19th century worse again. Maybe read his post again......

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 14/12/2023 10:24:32    2516712

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Ask your parents about the 1980s.
16% interest rates, 58% PAYE, Queues at the American Embassy looking for Visas, the "magic bus" to London to try and make a living.....

Then before uts too late ask your grandparents about the 1950s when 500,000 people got out of the State...."
I am old enough to remember the 80s.

Times were hard, but there was an abundance of social housing, schools and hospital capacity.

1 factory wage was also enough for a very good living and this with only a inter cert education or less.

I will admit though, your experience in the West was likely very different to mine.

Wexford was a thriving industrial hub then. Only one of those factories is left, and about 20% the size it was in 1990

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 14/12/2023 10:32:37    2516713

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I am old enough to remember the 80s.

Times were hard, but there was an abundance of social housing, schools and hospital capacity.

1 factory wage was also enough for a very good living and this with only a inter cert education or less.

I will admit though, your experience in the West was likely very different to mine.

Wexford was a thriving industrial hub then. Only one of those factories is left, and about 20% the size it was in 1990"
The agricultural sector is also employing a fraction of what it was back then here too.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 14/12/2023 10:40:06    2516715

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I am old enough to remember the 80s.

Times were hard, but there was an abundance of social housing, schools and hospital capacity.

1 factory wage was also enough for a very good living and this with only a inter cert education or less.

I will admit though, your experience in the West was likely very different to mine.

Wexford was a thriving industrial hub then. Only one of those factories is left, and about 20% the size it was in 1990"
Couple of things for you Doyler. The average life expectancy was 73.6years in 2023 82.8years. There are now 1.5million more people living in the country. Now they are two small examples of how people look back at the past with Rose tinted glasses. If you take a 20yr old today and put them back in 1985 it may wake them up to what they have today.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 15/12/2023 11:41:26    2516902

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Replying To zinny:  "Couple of things for you Doyler. The average life expectancy was 73.6years in 2023 82.8years. There are now 1.5million more people living in the country. Now they are two small examples of how people look back at the past with Rose tinted glasses. If you take a 20yr old today and put them back in 1985 it may wake them up to what they have today."
That's the point though.

The start of this conversation was about our capacity for population increases.

It is exceeded in my opinion.

What families have today is year long waiting lists for healthcare, 10 years for a house, and point blankets refusal for school places.

This is all with "full employment" and the most productive workforce in the world, the majority of which now have third level degrees.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 15/12/2023 15:14:19    2516946

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Replying To zinny:  "Couple of things for you Doyler. The average life expectancy was 73.6years in 2023 82.8years. There are now 1.5million more people living in the country. Now they are two small examples of how people look back at the past with Rose tinted glasses. If you take a 20yr old today and put them back in 1985 it may wake them up to what they have today."
If you take a 20yr old today and put them back in 1985 it may wake them up to what they have today


100% on the money.

I'm in my 30s and would probably consider myself to be in the top 5% of those my age in terms of work ethic, application, cop on, etc. The things that don't take a special talent essentially.

But looking at how hard my parents had to work to get by in the late 80s and into the 90s, would I like to have to do the same? Absolutely not!


There's definitely an alarming lack of resilience among people my age in this country. Maybe we've been spoilt.

Small anecdote (which I think I've told on this forum before). . .
Visited a (Irish) friend in London last year and asked how the commute to her new job was. She answered "Great! I walk 5mins to the train station, get a 45min train into the city, then hop on the tube and it drops me 10mins from work. So it's 1hr15mins door to door. It's brilliant!"

Now. Tell someone who works in the IFSC to move to Dundalk where they can commute from in 70mins and wait for their reaction.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 15/12/2023 15:18:21    2516948

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Replying To cavanman47:  "If you take a 20yr old today and put them back in 1985 it may wake them up to what they have today


100% on the money.

I'm in my 30s and would probably consider myself to be in the top 5% of those my age in terms of work ethic, application, cop on, etc. The things that don't take a special talent essentially.

But looking at how hard my parents had to work to get by in the late 80s and into the 90s, would I like to have to do the same? Absolutely not!


There's definitely an alarming lack of resilience among people my age in this country. Maybe we've been spoilt.

Small anecdote (which I think I've told on this forum before). . .
Visited a (Irish) friend in London last year and asked how the commute to her new job was. She answered "Great! I walk 5mins to the train station, get a 45min train into the city, then hop on the tube and it drops me 10mins from work. So it's 1hr15mins door to door. It's brilliant!"

Now. Tell someone who works in the IFSC to move to Dundalk where they can commute from in 70mins and wait for their reaction."
5+45+10 = 60 Minutes. Did I miss something.?

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1735 - 15/12/2023 18:47:57    2516980

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "That's the point though.

The start of this conversation was about our capacity for population increases.

It is exceeded in my opinion.

What families have today is year long waiting lists for healthcare, 10 years for a house, and point blankets refusal for school places.

This is all with "full employment" and the most productive workforce in the world, the majority of which now have third level degrees."
Our population capacity isn't exceeded. Our services are woefully underdeveloped even for the population we have currently.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 15/12/2023 20:19:47    2516993

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Replying To thelongridge:  "
Replying To cavanman47:  "If you take a 20yr old today and put them back in 1985 it may wake them up to what they have today


100% on the money.

I'm in my 30s and would probably consider myself to be in the top 5% of those my age in terms of work ethic, application, cop on, etc. The things that don't take a special talent essentially.

But looking at how hard my parents had to work to get by in the late 80s and into the 90s, would I like to have to do the same? Absolutely not!


There's definitely an alarming lack of resilience among people my age in this country. Maybe we've been spoilt.

Small anecdote (which I think I've told on this forum before). . .
Visited a (Irish) friend in London last year and asked how the commute to her new job was. She answered "Great! I walk 5mins to the train station, get a 45min train into the city, then hop on the tube and it drops me 10mins from work. So it's 1hr15mins door to door. It's brilliant!"

Now. Tell someone who works in the IFSC to move to Dundalk where they can commute from in 70mins and wait for their reaction."
5+45+10 = 60 Minutes. Did I miss something.?"
The 15 minute tube journey before the last 10 min walk to work

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1550 - 16/12/2023 12:28:37    2517045

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Howdy folks,

lots of delays and customs with items bought from UK businesses this Christmas it seems.
I've had a couple of small customs charges to pay, and am waiting on a few bits that will hopefully arrive in time for Christmas, although time is getting short.

Do ye reckon it's just normal for this time of year? I can't remember having these issues before. Maybe more people are buying online than ever before which is leading to the delays? Or is it Brexit related?


Anyways hopefully Santa will pull it out the bag! Fingers crossed!

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 21/12/2023 09:33:25    2517523

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Howdy folks,

lots of delays and customs with items bought from UK businesses this Christmas it seems.
I've had a couple of small customs charges to pay, and am waiting on a few bits that will hopefully arrive in time for Christmas, although time is getting short.

Do ye reckon it's just normal for this time of year? I can't remember having these issues before. Maybe more people are buying online than ever before which is leading to the delays? Or is it Brexit related?


Anyways hopefully Santa will pull it out the bag! Fingers crossed!"
I ordered something fairly small - and therefore low customs - a month ago. No sign. Seemingly respectable big company but that makes it even harder to get a response!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2525 - 21/12/2023 09:53:39    2517526

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I ordered something fairly small - and therefore low customs - a month ago. No sign. Seemingly respectable big company but that makes it even harder to get a response!"
Yeah it seems a bit chaotic. I will never, ever understand Brexit. Is it too simplistic to assume that many, possibly millions of people EU-wide will simply give up on buying UK produced products as it's just not worth the hassle?

But they got their own colour passports I suppose #winning

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 21/12/2023 10:18:32    2517529

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Howdy folks,

lots of delays and customs with items bought from UK businesses this Christmas it seems.
I've had a couple of small customs charges to pay, and am waiting on a few bits that will hopefully arrive in time for Christmas, although time is getting short.

Do ye reckon it's just normal for this time of year? I can't remember having these issues before. Maybe more people are buying online than ever before which is leading to the delays? Or is it Brexit related?


Anyways hopefully Santa will pull it out the bag! Fingers crossed!"
I avoid ordering from the UK and if I have to get something I get it delivered to a UK address and then normally someone in the family will be back frequently enough so as to bring it. However even something coming from Germany took a few days longer than they anticipated - getting held up in the DHL sorting center in Germany. Thankfully everything arrived. Hope you get it all ontime

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 21/12/2023 11:21:30    2517541

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yeah it seems a bit chaotic. I will never, ever understand Brexit. Is it too simplistic to assume that many, possibly millions of people EU-wide will simply give up on buying UK produced products as it's just not worth the hassle?

But they got their own colour passports I suppose #winning"
They could have changed the colour of their passports while remaining in the EU.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1404 - 21/12/2023 11:22:33    2517542

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Replying To zinny:  "I avoid ordering from the UK and if I have to get something I get it delivered to a UK address and then normally someone in the family will be back frequently enough so as to bring it. However even something coming from Germany took a few days longer than they anticipated - getting held up in the DHL sorting center in Germany. Thankfully everything arrived. Hope you get it all ontime"
Yeah I usually do that as well. But I ordered these items back mid November figuring they'd surely get here on time.
I have all the "main" presents so it's not a huge issue. It'd just be nicer to have everything for Christmas morning.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 21/12/2023 12:15:46    2517556

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