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Ah here now this forum gone from been sport into culture wars and politics . What is actually wrong saying Brazilian guy was involved he was one of the first to point out that there good immigrants who contribute, some just want to use this for their own agenda against people.
People entitled to the view but so are people entitle to refute it.

Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 213 - 10/12/2023 13:23:37    2516186

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Lol, you'd make a good lawyer,, and an even better politician, you know as well as I do that that vote was an accurate reflection of how irish people felt about mass immigration and I doubt much has changed since (a referendum might be an idea?)

Sure it's all moot anyways, no one is illegal, right?"
He is just stating fact an element of riots were thugs and jumped on bandwagon and was racist too.
That's not saying some can't have genuine concerns around immigration capacity and all that but it's fear misinformation and riots that's uncalled for doing nobody any good.
I do get some points around capacity and services capacity concern but not the other fear mongering disinformation.

Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 213 - 10/12/2023 13:27:44    2516188

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  ""Shift attention to our own citizens"

You mean the scumbags who attacked bus drivers, burnt buses and trams, a Garda car, looted shops etc....
Did you want that covered up?"
Of course I don't want it covered up, and they were scumbags,, much like the people who rioted for months in the US in 2020 , and caused far more damage, were also scumbags.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1699 - 10/12/2023 13:34:25    2516190

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Replying To Gaaforlife2023:  "Ah here now this forum gone from been sport into culture wars and politics . What is actually wrong saying Brazilian guy was involved he was one of the first to point out that there good immigrants who contribute, some just want to use this for their own agenda against people.
People entitled to the view but so are people entitle to refute it."
Absolutely, the Brazilian guy is a hero and highest of respect to him, but perhaps the people in the media who have chosen to almost completely ignore the other two men involved in diffusing the situation have their own agenda too?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1699 - 10/12/2023 14:03:35    2516197

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Do you even know what that referendum was for, and why it was held!!??

It was held to repeal an ammendment rushed through as part of the Good Friday Agreement and it was done so to prevent those who came here ILLEGALLY from automatically being entitled to stay here if they gave birth here, thus circumventing due process in relation to legal immigration.

There are certainly elements of racism in this country (as there are in all countries) but to compare us to Britain in that regard is ludicrous.
The minority, who engage in the thuggery witnessed in Dublin a couple of weeks back, do not represent 52% of the population in this country.

But 52% of Britain voted for Brexit (slightly more than 52% when you consider that the democratic will of the voters in NI was denied them in the aftermath of the vote) and they stand to lose out as a result in every single aspect apart from the free movement of EU citizens into their country."
"But 52% of Britain voted for Brexit (slightly more than 52% when you consider that the democratic will of the voters in NI was denied them in the aftermath of the vote)"

It was UK referendum, not a British, or Northern Island referendum. The 'will of the voters' of the UK was not denied.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2448 - 10/12/2023 14:33:21    2516202

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""But 52% of Britain voted for Brexit (slightly more than 52% when you consider that the democratic will of the voters in NI was denied them in the aftermath of the vote)"

It was UK referendum, not a British, or Northern Island referendum. The 'will of the voters' of the UK was not denied."
Two regions of the Uk voted against Brexit.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1735 - 10/12/2023 22:06:49    2516282

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Replying To thelongridge:  "Two regions of the Uk voted against Brexit."
Yeah, that was my point.

The GFA stipulates that the people of NI have the right to self-determination.
They voted to remain in the EU.
And that is being denied to them.

I'd have less sympathy for the Scots who got stage fright when they had their chance.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 12/12/2023 11:31:37    2516464

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Yeah, that was my point.

The GFA stipulates that the people of NI have the right to self-determination.
They voted to remain in the EU.
And that is being denied to them.

I'd have less sympathy for the Scots who got stage fright when they had their chance."
The GFA has absolutely nothing to with the EU.

The only "self-determination" is if there is a border poll. Which there will not be,, and if there was it would be in favour of remaining in UK.

As long as that remains the case then NI is part of UK and is bound by whatever is decided in UK referendums and elections.

As are Scotland and Wales despite much greater autonomy than the six counties.

Irish republicans agreed to this for some bizarre reason.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2528 - 12/12/2023 12:02:12    2516477

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Yeah, that was my point.

The GFA stipulates that the people of NI have the right to self-determination.
They voted to remain in the EU.
And that is being denied to them.

I'd have less sympathy for the Scots who got stage fright when they had their chance."
As a Scottish fella said to me- "We were all Braveheart until we saw a polling station"....

streaker (Galway) - Posts: 497 - 12/12/2023 12:53:30    2516491

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Replying To streaker:  "As a Scottish fella said to me- "We were all Braveheart until we saw a polling station"...."
45% of them did the dacent thing.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1405 - 12/12/2023 14:27:38    2516503

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Replying To thelongridge:  "Two regions of the Uk voted against Brexit."
So what?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2448 - 12/12/2023 16:39:29    2516524

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Replying To streaker:  "As a Scottish fella said to me- "We were all Braveheart until we saw a polling station"...."
Great quote!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 12/12/2023 16:39:48    2516525

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The GFA has absolutely nothing to with the EU.

The only "self-determination" is if there is a border poll. Which there will not be,, and if there was it would be in favour of remaining in UK.

As long as that remains the case then NI is part of UK and is bound by whatever is decided in UK referendums and elections.

As are Scotland and Wales despite much greater autonomy than the six counties.

Irish republicans agreed to this for some bizarre reason."
Because, just like in 1921, the alternative was voilence and mass deaths.

I'd be very interested to know what the polls would show in terms of a border poll if there was a guarantee of no voilent repercussions for a United Ireland vote.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 12/12/2023 18:11:54    2516534

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The alternative was not violence. The ceasefire was the right thing to do. The alternative was not to take part in running part of Ireland for Britain. Republicans could have campaigned democratically for an all Ireland vote on Partition and abstained from Stormont and the Executive.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2528 - 12/12/2023 19:54:01    2516542

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The alternative was not violence. The ceasefire was the right thing to do. The alternative was not to take part in running part of Ireland for Britain. Republicans could have campaigned democratically for an all Ireland vote on Partition and abstained from Stormont and the Executive."
How are they running it for Britain?

It is costing Britain somewhere in the region of £9bn per annum to run.

NI is incapable of running at a budget surplus in its current state.

But it would have enormous potential for economic prosperity if subjected to the level of FDI the Republic has experienced.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 12/12/2023 21:05:03    2516549

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Replying To cavanman47:  "How are they running it for Britain?

It is costing Britain somewhere in the region of £9bn per annum to run.

NI is incapable of running at a budget surplus in its current state.

But it would have enormous potential for economic prosperity if subjected to the level of FDI the Republic has experienced."
Why don't they leave then?

A quarter of the 26 counties GDP is taken out of the state by the way. It is now impossible for most working people to buy their own house on one income. A society is more than what suits multi nationals.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2528 - 12/12/2023 23:27:37    2516561

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The alternative was not violence. The ceasefire was the right thing to do. The alternative was not to take part in running part of Ireland for Britain. Republicans could have campaigned democratically for an all Ireland vote on Partition and abstained from Stormont and the Executive."
If you are not in you can't win. Abstentionism got the Republican Movement nowhere for years.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 13/12/2023 09:45:33    2516576

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Replying To Viking66:  "If you are not in you can't win. Abstentionism got the Republican Movement nowhere for years."
Tell Jeffrey Donaldson and the DUP that sitting outside Stormont does not achieve anything.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1735 - 13/12/2023 11:41:46    2516590

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Replying To thelongridge:  "Tell Jeffrey Donaldson and the DUP that sitting outside Stormont does not achieve anything."
Or Michael Collins and De Valera and Westminster 1918.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2528 - 13/12/2023 12:51:54    2516598

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Replying To thelongridge:  "Tell Jeffrey Donaldson and the DUP that sitting outside Stormont does not achieve anything."
Where exactly are Jeffrey Donaldson and the DUP going in the medium to longterm?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 13/12/2023 13:50:06    2516609

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