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That great footballer Sir Bobby Charlton, a World Cup winner from 1966, died yesterday. His brother Jack, former manager of the Republic of Ireland soccer team, will meet him in the next life.
May Sir Bobby rest in peace.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1695 - 22/10/2023 18:19:19    2509653

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Did Gandhi really gain independence through peaceful means though?

He stated himself that his aim was not to use violence himself but that he would fully support the use of violence in pursuit of a just cause, where no alternative existed.

That would likely be true of many military leaders and leaders of many freedom fighting organisations."
The fog of war. It's very easy to look back with hindsight. However there were many things the IRA did on this island that I will never agree with or understand. The Omagh bombing a prime example.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11216 - 23/10/2023 19:42:30    2509951

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Replying To yew_tree:  "The fog of war. It's very easy to look back with hindsight. However there were many things the IRA did on this island that I will never agree with or understand. The Omagh bombing a prime example."
That was not the Provos.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2414 - 24/10/2023 12:35:27    2510032

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I watched upfront on RTÉ last night..can I congratulate Luke o Laughlin and his mother on their honesty as regards the cocaine problem in the country..he is a top class footballer from Westmeath and his life was almost destroyed..as for the appearance of a member of our Garda force and the dail td,god help our country with these two..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2143 - 24/10/2023 12:54:15    2510043

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I watched upfront on RTÉ last night..can I congratulate Luke o Laughlin and his mother on their honesty as regards the cocaine problem in the country..he is a top class footballer from Westmeath and his life was almost destroyed..as for the appearance of a member of our Garda force and the dail td,god help our country with these two.."
Did they recommend group hugs?

Citizens Assembly wish for legalisation of personal possession would be god's gift to pushers. Would mean that none of their street dealers carrying under limit could even have the stuff confiscated. That thing ought to be closed down before it inflicts more damage.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2414 - 24/10/2023 13:49:55    2510064

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "That was not the Provos."
Yes. Exactly this.


And also, as my previous post stated. . ."the use of violence in pursuit of a just cause, where no alternative existed."

Civil rights marches being met with lethal gunfire doesn't leave many alternatives, does it?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4913 - 27/10/2023 15:24:11    2510655

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Yes. Exactly this.


And also, as my previous post stated. . ."the use of violence in pursuit of a just cause, where no alternative existed."

Civil rights marches being met with lethal gunfire doesn't leave many alternatives, does it?"
Defence against the loyalists and the army was justified.

However, the objective of the IRA was not civil rights, but a united Ireland. In fact the Provos split from the Officials because the latter wanted to pursue civil rights reform through Stormont. Ironically, what Sinn Féin ended up doing even though civil rights demands had long since been conceded,

Killing anyone in pursuit of any of it was a waste of lives on all sides.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2414 - 27/10/2023 15:37:55    2510657

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Defence against the loyalists and the army was justified.

However, the objective of the IRA was not civil rights, but a united Ireland. In fact the Provos split from the Officials because the latter wanted to pursue civil rights reform through Stormont. Ironically, what Sinn Féin ended up doing even though civil rights demands had long since been conceded,

Killing anyone in pursuit of any of it was a waste of lives on all sides."
Hume and the SDLP didn't do too bad and never shot or bombed anyone.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1280 - 27/10/2023 17:18:37    2510676

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Hume and the SDLP didn't do too bad and never shot or bombed anyone."
If there hadn't been an armed struggle Hume and the SDLP would have got nowhere.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11225 - 27/10/2023 19:30:45    2510690

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Did they recommend group hugs?

Citizens Assembly wish for legalisation of personal possession would be god's gift to pushers. Would mean that none of their street dealers carrying under limit could even have the stuff confiscated. That thing ought to be closed down before it inflicts more damage."
Good point there Barney. Makes you wonder what the Citizen's Assembly are thinking about. The drugs situation in Portugal has got worse since they legalised possession of drugs for personal use.
We elect politicians to Dáil Éireann, to discuss possible changes to legislation.



politicians

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1695 - 27/10/2023 20:58:55    2510695

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Hume and the SDLP didn't do too bad and never shot or bombed anyone."
They certainly didn't do too bad and John Hume was the main man getting the talks started that brought about the Good Friday Agreement. But only for Sinn Féin and the IRA catholics would still be getting trampled over, second class citizens in the eyes of the powers that be in the North at that time. People have to realise that the lives we live today in the North came about with the help of the IRA.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1987 - 27/10/2023 22:27:27    2510700

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Replying To Viking66:  "If there hadn't been an armed struggle Hume and the SDLP would have got nowhere."
That makes no sense. The Provos were totally opposed to the objectives of the SDLP. The reform of the 6 counties and Stormont was regarded as treachery. The Provos regarded the collapse of Stormont as a victory and as the prelude to an early withdrawal.

That was exactly 50 years ago, Now the Shinners are attempting to rewrite history and pretend that the whole thing was about bringing about the very things the SDLP wanted!

And pretending that (a) there is going to be a border poll soon; and (b) that there is a chance they might win it! Of which there is zero, zilch, nada. Which is why the 6 county state was established in the first place, and why republicans always opposed having anything to do with running it, reformed or otherwise, civil rights or no civil rights.

As many of the former blanketmen have said, none of that was worth one single life.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2414 - 28/10/2023 09:43:49    2510712

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Replying To Saynothing:  "They certainly didn't do too bad and John Hume was the main man getting the talks started that brought about the Good Friday Agreement. But only for Sinn Féin and the IRA catholics would still be getting trampled over, second class citizens in the eyes of the powers that be in the North at that time. People have to realise that the lives we live today in the North came about with the help of the IRA."
That is interpreting history so as to suit todays narrative - I wonder if the dead and their families would hold the same view. There are very valid reasons to also believe that the situation in NI would not have been something that the British Government could have tolerated for much longer and that the armer struggle for a united Ireland prolonged the misery and suffering of the Catholic community. The failure of Irish Nationalism to recognize that the British government would never agree to a united Ireland against the wishes of the majority in NI has cost so many lives and ultimately made that goal far harder to achieve.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1771 - 28/10/2023 14:39:58    2510732

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "That makes no sense. The Provos were totally opposed to the objectives of the SDLP. The reform of the 6 counties and Stormont was regarded as treachery. The Provos regarded the collapse of Stormont as a victory and as the prelude to an early withdrawal.

That was exactly 50 years ago, Now the Shinners are attempting to rewrite history and pretend that the whole thing was about bringing about the very things the SDLP wanted!

And pretending that (a) there is going to be a border poll soon; and (b) that there is a chance they might win it! Of which there is zero, zilch, nada. Which is why the 6 county state was established in the first place, and why republicans always opposed having anything to do with running it, reformed or otherwise, civil rights or no civil rights.

As many of the former blanketmen have said, none of that was worth one single life."
If you think that is why the 6 county "state" was formed Barney I'm frankly amazed. I don't think a border poll would succeed right now, but I'd be hopeful that it might in the future as the generations follow one after the other up there. The entrenched bitterness is waning year on year, as the more bigoted generations die out. And socially and economically the South isn't being seen as some 3rd world country attached to Europe as it used to be by many on both sides of the divide up North. The demise of the role the Catholic Church has had since semi independence in the governing of the 26 counties has certainly helped in that regard also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11225 - 28/10/2023 18:06:35    2510752

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Replying To Saynothing:  "They certainly didn't do too bad and John Hume was the main man getting the talks started that brought about the Good Friday Agreement. But only for Sinn Féin and the IRA catholics would still be getting trampled over, second class citizens in the eyes of the powers that be in the North at that time. People have to realise that the lives we live today in the North came about with the help of the IRA."
At the very most that was an unintended consequence of a failed campaign to bring about a British withdrawal and national unity and sovereignty.

And that be stretching.. No place is the same as it was 60 years ago, and they changed without the need to have an armed struggle! Especially one that has nothing whatsoever to do with making anyone's life better within a partitioned Ireland.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2414 - 28/10/2023 18:17:01    2510753

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some final
amazing game that had everything

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3455 - 28/10/2023 22:05:53    2510772

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Replying To KillingFields:  "some final
amazing game that had everything"
3 single point wins in the knockouts, in fairness to the Springboks their mental toughness is something else.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1505 - 28/10/2023 23:21:46    2510777

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Replying To Viking66:  "If you think that is why the 6 county "state" was formed Barney I'm frankly amazed. I don't think a border poll would succeed right now, but I'd be hopeful that it might in the future as the generations follow one after the other up there. The entrenched bitterness is waning year on year, as the more bigoted generations die out. And socially and economically the South isn't being seen as some 3rd world country attached to Europe as it used to be by many on both sides of the divide up North. The demise of the role the Catholic Church has had since semi independence in the governing of the 26 counties has certainly helped in that regard also."
The 6 counties was artificially created to ensure a pro British majority. did i miss something?

That majority still exists and it will exist for another while yet.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2414 - 28/10/2023 23:28:57    2510781

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Replying To KillingFields:  "some final
amazing game that had everything"
"Amazing"…. it had 1 try and a multitude of TMO reviews that destroyed the game… along with a red card that never should have been.. SA did the very same and no red… A rubbish sport and thank goodness it's over…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1777 - 29/10/2023 08:18:26    2510793

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Replying To KillingFields:  "some final
amazing game that had everything"
Thought the occasion got to the referee. Gave SA 3points for nothing, and admitted it a minute later. Missed 2 basic knockons, and had to disallow a try off the back of one of them. Then to balance up the 'roll if the dice' that seemed to be screwing NZ all night, he allows a NZ try where the final offload that Barrett picked up went at least a yard forward. A shambles.

The final confirmed that Ireland and France were very close to the standard required to win it out, and England obviously came very close to toppling SA as well.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3356 - 29/10/2023 08:40:48    2510795

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