Cavan Forum

Cavan Seniors 2022

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Same thing regardless of what sport… sure Coady only won about 15 All Ireland's… what would he know compared to the great Mickey Graham… don't make a fool out of yourself Breffni40…..!!!"
You're some fella for the straw man arguments. No one is doubting Cody and what he has done (albeit it in the strongest hurling only county). Simply pointing out how the two sports are very different now, even though it's played on the same field. Hurling is a puck out, catch, strike over the bar game now. Football is far more tactical these days, with the build up required to get in scoring positions far harder to achieve. It's a results business, and this is how teams get into the best position to score and win. Someone here said it's not chess? Well actually I'd say it's very much like that now

A football team that has a coach that sits on the sideline, doesn't adjust as the game moves, or make changes, is a coach that will see his team being beat and he'll not be in a job much longer. You look at any of the top teams and you see how they adjust on the fly, the stats they take during games, the amount of data they consider. Look at the poor teams and they don't so they're behind. It's clear to see if you look: you might not like it, but it's where we're at. Football now is far beyond what the average fair weather supporter in the stand can see and understand. The day of the fella in the stand roaring lump it in is gone (although in Cavan we still have those boys shouting) - that football doesn't exist at intercounty level anymore.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1858 - 04/05/2022 10:05:50    2414790

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Replying To fredflint:  "I actually agree with Breffni1969 on this one, far too much shouting in from the line at a few league games I was at where I could hear them and its the same with the keeper shouting up the field too. I would be very frustrated playing with all that instruction going on. Communication is very important on the field but over communication can be destructive in my opinion."
There is a lot of shouting, I mentioned as much above on a time when I was behind the dugout. But what's the alternative? See issues, things happening, and not reacting to it? The team that doesn't do that is the team that will be beat. It's where the game is now. The bets teams have the biggest background teams crunching all the data, and relaying that info and making the changes as they see the games happening. Anyone who doesn't keep up will get beat and left behind. We have to be at this

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1858 - 04/05/2022 10:08:59    2414791

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Loughduff lad you might go to a lot of Cavan matches but you are obviously a bit blinkered in your view… nobody doubts Mc Kiernans ability but if you can't see his lack of tackling and tracking back you are completely wasting your money attending matches… It's the reason I think he should be played nearer the goals…. He might get away with it against the type of opposition in Div 4 but not when we come up against one of the big boys… Mickey Harte even pointed it out before the Antrim game that he can't tackle and won't follow his man…. But sure you probably know more than Mickey Harte as well…!!!!"
He works hard where he needs to work. he's not a Killian the Gunner type player, who is the one who does that dirty work. Again, why do you want a player to do somethings that's not his big skill, or not his job? A fella like GMac, you let him do his job, what he's good at. He's on the 40, he's the playmaker. He's the one who most of the play runs through. Like I honestly have to question if you lads watch the game or understand football? It's like giving out about Messi or Ronaldo tracking back (I'm using an analogy, not comparing GMac to them before you lose your head). Each man has their job to do. I'd much rather GMac be where he needs to be, rather than on the box like some said, or tracking back like you lads want him to. His work rate is very good for the aspects of the game we want him to work at. Sure why not get him to go down and play goalkeeper as well? Jeez lads...

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1858 - 04/05/2022 10:14:49    2414794

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "There is a lot of shouting, I mentioned as much above on a time when I was behind the dugout. But what's the alternative? See issues, things happening, and not reacting to it? The team that doesn't do that is the team that will be beat. It's where the game is now. The bets teams have the biggest background teams crunching all the data, and relaying that info and making the changes as they see the games happening. Anyone who doesn't keep up will get beat and left behind. We have to be at this"
No I dont agree, the type of shouting in is where to run, where to kick it, what to do. Thats not what is needed at all. Fellas on our team are not kids and they dont need their every decision on the field being dictated to them. Some comms is key, for example if someone was drifting in behind and you missed it. But what I observed was every single play of the ball was being shouted in. Have a look at other counties that are winning, you wont see that at all.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1468 - 04/05/2022 10:15:28    2414795

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "He works hard where he needs to work. he's not a Killian the Gunner type player, who is the one who does that dirty work. Again, why do you want a player to do somethings that's not his big skill, or not his job? A fella like GMac, you let him do his job, what he's good at. He's on the 40, he's the playmaker. He's the one who most of the play runs through. Like I honestly have to question if you lads watch the game or understand football? It's like giving out about Messi or Ronaldo tracking back (I'm using an analogy, not comparing GMac to them before you lose your head). Each man has their job to do. I'd much rather GMac be where he needs to be, rather than on the box like some said, or tracking back like you lads want him to. His work rate is very good for the aspects of the game we want him to work at. Sure why not get him to go down and play goalkeeper as well? Jeez lads..."
That's all well and good but he will be found out big time against top opponents…: It's all about work rate…the days of having players who don't go with their men and can't tackle are long gone…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 736 - 04/05/2022 11:37:12    2414815

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Replying To fredflint:  "No I dont agree, the type of shouting in is where to run, where to kick it, what to do. Thats not what is needed at all. Fellas on our team are not kids and they dont need their every decision on the field being dictated to them. Some comms is key, for example if someone was drifting in behind and you missed it. But what I observed was every single play of the ball was being shouted in. Have a look at other counties that are winning, you wont see that at all."
Uh, yes you do see that. They're constantly messaging on and moving things. You might find a manager being quiet, but his coaches are getting messages onto the field, Maor Uisces as well. Watch for it teh next time you see the big teams

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1858 - 04/05/2022 11:50:58    2414822

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Uh, yes you do see that. They're constantly messaging on and moving things. You might find a manager being quiet, but his coaches are getting messages onto the field, Maor Uisces as well. Watch for it teh next time you see the big teams"
If your a player , fully concentrating on what happening on the pitch you won't hear what's being said on the sideline. And you won't want to hear it either. Your carrying out your prematch instruction plus using your brain to read the game as it progresses.
Half time team talk is for regrouping . Set your stall out for the 2nd half and try and correct the do and fonts of the 1st half.
Screaming from the sideline after 5 mins don't solve anything. It actually unsettles players.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 190 - 04/05/2022 13:06:03    2414842

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "That's all well and good but he will be found out big time against top opponents…: It's all about work rate…the days of having players who don't go with their men and can't tackle are long gone…"
I really don't know what you're expecting of the man. He has his role, and he does it very well, and works very hard at it. He is effectively double marked each game, but still works to find the space he needs to do his job. He's a playmaker, and a rangy runner. He claims the ball around the 65 and inwards, and moves quickly into the scoring space around the D, and either gets the shot away, or passes the ball to someone in space when he is double teamed and can't shoot. What on earth is gained from him expending energy by tracking back and such, and being in the wrong part of the field. Why take him away from what he does well? We want him in the position he takes. For God sake, it took managers long enough to see he is best as a forward only, and not as a midfielder covering back to our 21 despite his height. His best position is where he is, and I'm losing any respect I had for your opinion if you think he needs to be at something else. There is a reason he is talked around the country as our best player and the one who needs to be watched, and why teams target him and double mark him. You don't need a team of 15 hard tacklers, we have the other players to do this to free him up for his job. How can our own fans not see this...

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1858 - 04/05/2022 13:06:34    2414843

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Uh, yes you do see that. They're constantly messaging on and moving things. You might find a manager being quiet, but his coaches are getting messages onto the field, Maor Uisces as well. Watch for it teh next time you see the big teams"
Have to agree with you there Loughduff lad… I thought the GAA were going to cut down on the amount of people along the line not including subs… Club games are as bad… 2/3 lads with clip boards, selectors, water carrier's and a physio with each team.. no wonder football is gone so bad… the poor players don't know whether they are coming or going… Mad carry on…!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 736 - 04/05/2022 13:08:41    2414844

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "If your a player , fully concentrating on what happening on the pitch you won't hear what's being said on the sideline. And you won't want to hear it either. Your carrying out your prematch instruction plus using your brain to read the game as it progresses.
Half time team talk is for regrouping . Set your stall out for the 2nd half and try and correct the do and fonts of the 1st half.
Screaming from the sideline after 5 mins don't solve anything. It actually unsettles players."
You're actually showing you don't seem to know what you're on about. Players are moving and adjusting all game now. Again, watch the game closely the next time, and you watch how the players move when the shout comes from the sideline. Especially on kick outs when they set up for what the opposition will do. You're quite naive to think pre game and half time is the only times for organising. All the top teams are at it, and we need to be too. Players do listen to it. Otherwise you'll be beat out the gate

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1858 - 04/05/2022 14:54:18    2414868

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "You're actually showing you don't seem to know what you're on about. Players are moving and adjusting all game now. Again, watch the game closely the next time, and you watch how the players move when the shout comes from the sideline. Especially on kick outs when they set up for what the opposition will do. You're quite naive to think pre game and half time is the only times for organising. All the top teams are at it, and we need to be too. Players do listen to it. Otherwise you'll be beat out the gate"
I understand the need for instruction but not the constant barrage of instruction that comes from the Cavan bench. 3 men shouting at the same time. They even drowning themselves out all shouting together. Listen to it is crazy stuff. And Galligan on top of that. He nearly got caught out in the last 2 minutes against London. Roaring like a bull and not concent on his own job.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 190 - 04/05/2022 16:22:46    2414894

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Far too much emphasis put on all this sort of stuff…. Football is been coached out of players nowadays… far too much emphasis put on keeping possession and not making mistakes… nobody allowed express themselves any more… it's dreadful the amount of supposed county players who can't kick the ball over the bar from 30m….they can't even take a 45…. nearly every keeper is trudging up to take them… It's all down to lazy coaching… it's the easiest thing in the world to get everyone to run back and get behind the ball…providing you get enough players foolish enough to buy into that rubbish…horrible turgid stuff to have to watch so playing must be equally depressing… I guess it's the modern way but I can't stand it…. Hopefully Cavan don't adopt their slow over and back playing the ball backwards on Sunday…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 736 - 04/05/2022 16:39:56    2414899

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Far too much emphasis put on all this sort of stuff…. Football is been coached out of players nowadays… far too much emphasis put on keeping possession and not making mistakes… nobody allowed express themselves any more… it's dreadful the amount of supposed county players who can't kick the ball over the bar from 30m….they can't even take a 45…. nearly every keeper is trudging up to take them… It's all down to lazy coaching… it's the easiest thing in the world to get everyone to run back and get behind the ball…providing you get enough players foolish enough to buy into that rubbish…horrible turgid stuff to have to watch so playing must be equally depressing… I guess it's the modern way but I can't stand it…. Hopefully Cavan don't adopt their slow over and back playing the ball backwards on Sunday…"
100% correct.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 190 - 04/05/2022 16:54:18    2414900

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Far too much emphasis put on all this sort of stuff…. Football is been coached out of players nowadays… far too much emphasis put on keeping possession and not making mistakes… nobody allowed express themselves any more… it's dreadful the amount of supposed county players who can't kick the ball over the bar from 30m….they can't even take a 45…. nearly every keeper is trudging up to take them… It's all down to lazy coaching… it's the easiest thing in the world to get everyone to run back and get behind the ball…providing you get enough players foolish enough to buy into that rubbish…horrible turgid stuff to have to watch so playing must be equally depressing… I guess it's the modern way but I can't stand it…. Hopefully Cavan don't adopt their slow over and back playing the ball backwards on Sunday…"
Not at all. Even more dumb you're talking. Football now is at the highest standard it's ever been at. Ball in play time, scores taken, scores converted per game, distances covered etc. Football isn't being coached out of player, they're excelling in it. Don't get caught up in TG4 gold games. Most games from yesteryear were brutal, with a terrible standard. Jeez, over lockdown I rewatched the 97 Ulster final and All Ireland semi, and I thought it was high standard. But it was very poor compared to today. Don't get caught with rose tinted glasses, football standard and players today are far better than years ago. It's not being coached out of them at all. It's the opposite. But I'd expect you to be wrong on this anyway

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1858 - 04/05/2022 17:26:42    2414911

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "100% correct."
100% not correct actually. Football is at the highest standard it's ever been at. You're another who is talking some about of bull these days

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1858 - 04/05/2022 17:27:38    2414912

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Far too much emphasis put on all this sort of stuff…. Football is been coached out of players nowadays… far too much emphasis put on keeping possession and not making mistakes… nobody allowed express themselves any more… it's dreadful the amount of supposed county players who can't kick the ball over the bar from 30m….they can't even take a 45…. nearly every keeper is trudging up to take them… It's all down to lazy coaching… it's the easiest thing in the world to get everyone to run back and get behind the ball…providing you get enough players foolish enough to buy into that rubbish…horrible turgid stuff to have to watch so playing must be equally depressing… I guess it's the modern way but I can't stand it…. Hopefully Cavan don't adopt their slow over and back playing the ball backwards on Sunday…"
By the way, taking a free off the ground was exceptionally hard years ago, and it's exceptionally hard now. There's a reason there is only a handful of players every generation who can do it consistently and well. Not even every team in the country has a decent one. So not sure what your deal here is. And your obsession with keepers taking kicks knows no bounds. A keeper is one who takes kicks off the ground far more than any other player, maybe dozens of times per game. And if a keeper has a high percentage after judging the conditions all game, then it makes sense. Again, very odd your issue with this. It is a hard skill. Why not use your best option?

I honestly don't get your mentality. Are you just against absolutely everything, apart from some perfect vision of the game you have in your head? Every single thing you say is giving out on some perceived thing, or being negative. Are you sure you even enjoy football?

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1858 - 04/05/2022 17:40:30    2414915

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "100% not correct actually. Football is at the highest standard it's ever been at. You're another who is talking some about of bull these days"
It might be at a higher fitness level today. Very few forwards can kick a score on the run from 30/40 M consistently..There very few forwards with the vision of Greg Blaney, the skill of Canavan or the penetration of Giles or Donnelan. And the list goes on. Nobody on our Team can kick a free like Ronan Caralon could . Goalkeepers now take frees. Look at the way McCabe orcKing could field a ball, with no mark and players hanging out of them.
Skill is being coached out of players. Forwards don't beat defenders with pace , they tap it backwards looking for an opening. Only difference with soccer nowadays is you can handle the ball.
It's sore on the eye. Hard to watch
Watch Down v Meath 1991 All Ireland final on YouTube and come back and tell me todays game is better.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 190 - 05/05/2022 10:02:22    2414979

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "By the way, taking a free off the ground was exceptionally hard years ago, and it's exceptionally hard now. There's a reason there is only a handful of players every generation who can do it consistently and well. Not even every team in the country has a decent one. So not sure what your deal here is. And your obsession with keepers taking kicks knows no bounds. A keeper is one who takes kicks off the ground far more than any other player, maybe dozens of times per game. And if a keeper has a high percentage after judging the conditions all game, then it makes sense. Again, very odd your issue with this. It is a hard skill. Why not use your best option?

I honestly don't get your mentality. Are you just against absolutely everything, apart from some perfect vision of the game you have in your head? Every single thing you say is giving out on some perceived thing, or being negative. Are you sure you even enjoy football?"
Well if you enjoy this type of football there is certainly something wrong with you mentally… as for kicking the ball of the ground most supposed county players can't even kick it from the hand.,. Woeful stuff.. skill wise hurling has left football light years behind… Even though it's nigh impossible I would always strive for perfection while you love to embrace meritocracy… which is probably why Cavan ended up in basement football to begin with..:

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 736 - 05/05/2022 10:07:48    2414983

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "It might be at a higher fitness level today. Very few forwards can kick a score on the run from 30/40 M consistently..There very few forwards with the vision of Greg Blaney, the skill of Canavan or the penetration of Giles or Donnelan. And the list goes on. Nobody on our Team can kick a free like Ronan Caralon could . Goalkeepers now take frees. Look at the way McCabe orcKing could field a ball, with no mark and players hanging out of them.
Skill is being coached out of players. Forwards don't beat defenders with pace , they tap it backwards looking for an opening. Only difference with soccer nowadays is you can handle the ball.
It's sore on the eye. Hard to watch
Watch Down v Meath 1991 All Ireland final on YouTube and come back and tell me todays game is better."
Confirmation bias. I literally mention about TG4 Gold. Of course you can pick out the odd game here or there from the past that was good, but most were bad. Very bad. The fact you have one example proves the point I'm trying to make. The volume of scores, converted chances and so on is far higher now than any time in the past.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1858 - 05/05/2022 11:10:08    2415005

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Confirmation bias. I literally mention about TG4 Gold. Of course you can pick out the odd game here or there from the past that was good, but most were bad. Very bad. The fact you have one example proves the point I'm trying to make. The volume of scores, converted chances and so on is far higher now than any time in the past."
Well wait and see the attendance on Sunday. Be lucky if there 10,000 there. There was only 3000 odd at the Antrim game . Tells it own story.
People don't want to watch laboured across/ backward hand passing. Players afraid to shoot from inside the 45m line for fear of losing possession of the kick doesn't go dead.
It's difficult to watch . Yes there a slight improvement with the Div 1 teams . But the Lower Div teams like us can't perfect that type of game as you will see on Sunday.
Hoping for a Donegal collapse but if they play to their potential or to the level they played against Armagh they will beat us by 7/8points.
Because on current form we are nowhere near their level as you will see on Sunday.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 190 - 05/05/2022 11:38:09    2415016

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