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Monaghan GAA thread

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rather than getting petty...has anyone any decent facts about player populations in the county?...i did a quick search and the following page gives an indication
https://monaghan.ie/communitydevelopment/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2016/12/MonaghanSocioEconomicDraftforConsulationApril2015.pdf

again - very quickly I believe harps and carrick have bigger populations than scotstown and blayney is comparible...Im not sure of clontibrets numbers but i understand they have a huge catchment too

I actually think we should amalgamate more clubs. Like clones/killeevan/currin would surely make a super club. Emyvale and Tyholland would be a dangerous combination

I know many posters wont like that but if you cant beat them join them...any other areas that could be combined?

MalsBalls (Monaghan) - Posts: 195 - 09/07/2024 14:28:53    2558041

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Replying To MalsBalls:  "rather than getting petty...has anyone any decent facts about player populations in the county?...i did a quick search and the following page gives an indication
https://monaghan.ie/communitydevelopment/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2016/12/MonaghanSocioEconomicDraftforConsulationApril2015.pdf

again - very quickly I believe harps and carrick have bigger populations than scotstown and blayney is comparible...Im not sure of clontibrets numbers but i understand they have a huge catchment too

I actually think we should amalgamate more clubs. Like clones/killeevan/currin would surely make a super club. Emyvale and Tyholland would be a dangerous combination

I know many posters wont like that but if you cant beat them join them...any other areas that could be combined?"
Donaghmoyne parish too.. magheracloone underage teams big numbers. It's only a complaint when scotstown are winning. Other clubs should actually look how they coach as well .. how they set up their underage academy.. their s and development. How they prioritise players playing and not grading their teams on ability .. their a b and c underage teams are graded on player ages not ability as other clubs do as they are fixated on winning every u12 div 2 title.

Yes huge numbers but look at how the entire club is operated and how their entire coaching model is.. you can have all the numbers but development is a priority which many posters just whip out the old age argument of playing numbers

veterngaa (Monaghan) - Posts: 472 - 09/07/2024 15:20:42    2558059

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Replying To veterngaa:  "Donaghmoyne parish too.. magheracloone underage teams big numbers. It's only a complaint when scotstown are winning. Other clubs should actually look how they coach as well .. how they set up their underage academy.. their s and development. How they prioritise players playing and not grading their teams on ability .. their a b and c underage teams are graded on player ages not ability as other clubs do as they are fixated on winning every u12 div 2 title.

Yes huge numbers but look at how the entire club is operated and how their entire coaching model is.. you can have all the numbers but development is a priority which many posters just whip out the old age argument of playing numbers"
Donaghmoyne have huge numbers in the younger age groups only because they combine boys and girls. They don't have huge numbers after that. They only have an A and B Under 12 Team, unlike Scotstown who A, B, C and D Teams. Donaghmoyne is a big parish alright, but there are 3 clubs in the parish, not 3 parishes in the club. Despite what you may believe, Scotstown have been successful only through pure weight of numbers. I'm puzzled as to how you think Scotstown grade their underage teams? Maybe it's the same way as you rank Junior as being higher than Senior Reserves. And I'm confused about your reference to Magheracloone. I think they have good numbers at the minute because they put a lot of work in, and don't actually have a huge number to pick from. Inniskeen are the same, doing a lot of work underage. You seem to be looking down you're nose at the south of the county. I think more research is required Veteran.

BrehonBlonde (Monaghan) - Posts: 50 - 09/07/2024 17:13:19    2558083

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Replying To MalsBalls:  "rather than getting petty...has anyone any decent facts about player populations in the county?...i did a quick search and the following page gives an indication
https://monaghan.ie/communitydevelopment/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2016/12/MonaghanSocioEconomicDraftforConsulationApril2015.pdf

again - very quickly I believe harps and carrick have bigger populations than scotstown and blayney is comparible...Im not sure of clontibrets numbers but i understand they have a huge catchment too

I actually think we should amalgamate more clubs. Like clones/killeevan/currin would surely make a super club. Emyvale and Tyholland would be a dangerous combination

I know many posters wont like that but if you cant beat them join them...any other areas that could be combined?"
Hmm, Clontibret huge catchment area? It's a big parish alright, but it's split into 3 clubs. The entire parish itself is actually smaller than Tydavnet, which is only one of the four parishes Scotstown choose from.
Harps, Carrick and Blayney all have huge populations, yes. However, these 3 clubs offer and take hurling seriously. Only for Castleblayney hurling in the county would be borderline extinct. It's a travesty that Scotstown don't field a hurling team.

Despite all the jibes about Scotstown's pick, I will admit that they are ran incredibly well, so fair play to all those involved.

HB245 (Monaghan) - Posts: 212 - 09/07/2024 17:56:46    2558091

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Replying To veterngaa:  "Donaghmoyne parish too.. magheracloone underage teams big numbers. It's only a complaint when scotstown are winning. Other clubs should actually look how they coach as well .. how they set up their underage academy.. their s and development. How they prioritise players playing and not grading their teams on ability .. their a b and c underage teams are graded on player ages not ability as other clubs do as they are fixated on winning every u12 div 2 title.

Yes huge numbers but look at how the entire club is operated and how their entire coaching model is.. you can have all the numbers but development is a priority which many posters just whip out the old age argument of playing numbers"
You make it sound like no other club focuses on underage and development with is untrue and hughly unfair on other clubs who make as much effort as Scotstown.
Sometime numbers just make the differance.
Sometimes.

farneygael (Monaghan) - Posts: 287 - 09/07/2024 20:57:17    2558111

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Replying To BrehonBlonde:  "Donaghmoyne have huge numbers in the younger age groups only because they combine boys and girls. They don't have huge numbers after that. They only have an A and B Under 12 Team, unlike Scotstown who A, B, C and D Teams. Donaghmoyne is a big parish alright, but there are 3 clubs in the parish, not 3 parishes in the club. Despite what you may believe, Scotstown have been successful only through pure weight of numbers. I'm puzzled as to how you think Scotstown grade their underage teams? Maybe it's the same way as you rank Junior as being higher than Senior Reserves. And I'm confused about your reference to Magheracloone. I think they have good numbers at the minute because they put a lot of work in, and don't actually have a huge number to pick from. Inniskeen are the same, doing a lot of work underage. You seem to be looking down you're nose at the south of the county. I think more research is required Veteran."
Inniskeen, magheracloone etc all 3 x u12 teams but come minor will have scrapings of one team due to player rentention

A long time ago scotstown realise they had a high drop off rates at minor.

Scotstown grade their underage teams based on their age not ability… the div 1 teams are not the best players but the players in their final year of that grade. This results in players playing with their friends and enjoying it more.. it creates a development model before minor and player rentention …. Most other clubs will have a and b teams and grade based on ability

Scotstown won all around them at underage level in the 90s but nothing came of it… so they changed their coaching model to focus on development. The pathway is for senior not to win every div 1 underage title … that's why you see some of their underage teams some years struggle at div 1 level because some of the better players are playing div 3 at that grade

veterngaa (Monaghan) - Posts: 472 - 10/07/2024 06:10:46    2558145

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Replying To veterngaa:  "Inniskeen, magheracloone etc all 3 x u12 teams but come minor will have scrapings of one team due to player rentention

A long time ago scotstown realise they had a high drop off rates at minor.

Scotstown grade their underage teams based on their age not ability… the div 1 teams are not the best players but the players in their final year of that grade. This results in players playing with their friends and enjoying it more.. it creates a development model before minor and player rentention …. Most other clubs will have a and b teams and grade based on ability

Scotstown won all around them at underage level in the 90s but nothing came of it… so they changed their coaching model to focus on development. The pathway is for senior not to win every div 1 underage title … that's why you see some of their underage teams some years struggle at div 1 level because some of the better players are playing div 3 at that grade"
Nonsense.

Every single club nationally are experiencing the same phenomenon. The clubs you mention have three teams at U12 and only one minor team just due to the birth rate trends. The present minors were born before the end of the Celtic Tiger when there was a decline in the birth rate. There was a l boom post the 2008 crash, and then when the economy recovered, the birth rate dropped. You can see already that there is a big drop in numbers in age groups post 2015 when the economy recovered.

If you think Scotstown are doing things better than other clubs you are sadly mistaken, you'd want to get down to Kilmore for a wee look. I saw them last year at an underage game, where there was an A and B game running side by side, taking players off the A Team, so that they could win the B game.

BrehonBlonde (Monaghan) - Posts: 50 - 10/07/2024 12:05:53    2558192

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Everyone on crying.. It is what it is just get on with it and focus on a plan to overcome them like teams did to beat the Blayneys of the 70s,80s and 90s, the Dubs of recent , the Kerrys that won all the all irelands.

Few years ago Dublin was too big and the population played such a massive factor but they aren't quite as strong now as they were when they dominated for years there. Its a cycle.

Things come and go. As someone said above Scotstown didn't win a championship for 20 years. Their pick was just as big then as it is now. They are just putting in more work and bringing on a lot more players and developing them. Good bunch of players this last 10/12 years.

Someone mentioned Clontibret having a massive catchment area but their ONE parish has 3 football teams. Has been this way a lifetime. Just how it is, they won a lot but 'could' of won loads more if those 3 teams were all one but they aren't all one, get on with it.

We seems to always come up with excuses for teams dominating and having a good selection. No one was giving out when these teams weren't winning for years.

countymonaghan (Monaghan) - Posts: 274 - 10/07/2024 13:35:07    2558210

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Replying To BrehonBlonde:  "Nonsense.

Every single club nationally are experiencing the same phenomenon. The clubs you mention have three teams at U12 and only one minor team just due to the birth rate trends. The present minors were born before the end of the Celtic Tiger when there was a decline in the birth rate. There was a l boom post the 2008 crash, and then when the economy recovered, the birth rate dropped. You can see already that there is a big drop in numbers in age groups post 2015 when the economy recovered.

If you think Scotstown are doing things better than other clubs you are sadly mistaken, you'd want to get down to Kilmore for a wee look. I saw them last year at an underage game, where there was an A and B game running side by side, taking players off the A Team, so that they could win the B game."
If you have 3 x u12 teams and by the time they come to minor you only have one team … there is a problem in the club!

You can say they do this do that .. but the fact of the matter is they got their house in order! Revamped their underage academy .. built a culture! Future Blues academy it was called .. they built a whole culture around underage … numbers help but Christ you need a good structure as well..

veterngaa (Monaghan) - Posts: 472 - 10/07/2024 16:56:00    2558243

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Replying To veterngaa:  "If you have 3 x u12 teams and by the time they come to minor you only have one team … there is a problem in the club!

You can say they do this do that .. but the fact of the matter is they got their house in order! Revamped their underage academy .. built a culture! Future Blues academy it was called .. they built a whole culture around underage … numbers help but Christ you need a good structure as well.."
You are having a pop at clubs having three U12 Teams at present, but only one Minor Team, and saying that those clubs are doing something wrong.

Do you not understand the concept? They will have three Minor Teams when the kids born after the Celtic Tiger baby boom come of age. And with the birth rate now dropping, they will then gradually return to one team.

It's absolutely nothing to do with coaching structures in other clubs, it's about the number of kids that they have to work with.

If you still don't understand, or don't believe me, read the article below from Reuters

https://www.reuters.com/article/business/ireland-s-financial-bust-delivers-baby-boom-idUSL5E8MN8IP/

BrehonBlonde (Monaghan) - Posts: 50 - 10/07/2024 23:40:14    2558299

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Replying To BrehonBlonde:  "You are having a pop at clubs having three U12 Teams at present, but only one Minor Team, and saying that those clubs are doing something wrong.

Do you not understand the concept? They will have three Minor Teams when the kids born after the Celtic Tiger baby boom come of age. And with the birth rate now dropping, they will then gradually return to one team.

It's absolutely nothing to do with coaching structures in other clubs, it's about the number of kids that they have to work with.

If you still don't understand, or don't believe me, read the article below from Reuters

https://www.reuters.com/article/business/ireland-s-financial-bust-delivers-baby-boom-idUSL5E8MN8IP/"
No i am saying that clubs who had 3 x 12 teams and had one minor team when that age group reached minor .. that's a club problem! Nothing to do with baby boom. If there are 40 kids playing u12 in a club and 5 years later they field only one team and have 24 players …. Scotstown have been able to retain their players hugely because of their coaching set up focusing on developing and not on winning every underage title they can! Their idea is come minor they compete for the Div 1 title … that's why at u12 level and u14 they may struggle abit at div 1 because they team is not based on ability but on their year of brith,

veterngaa (Monaghan) - Posts: 472 - 11/07/2024 11:59:54    2558355

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