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Westmeath Football thread

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Replying To Bluelake:  "The bottom teams in the junior groups have a playoff and that year the sole junior side lost rather than the second team. I think it was Ballinagore were beaten by Killucan that year, think it was 2022"
Ok, but why always Moate that make up the numbers in the sole junior group? This will be the third year in a row that Moate are with them

A_Chairde (Westmeath) - Posts: 286 - 05/04/2025 20:27:12    2600677

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Replying To A_Chairde:  "Why is Moate in with the junior clubs again ?"
Unsure, very strange. I wonder if their was a draw or something. Does not seem fare that.

IKnowBestest (Westmeath) - Posts: 7 - 05/04/2025 20:30:51    2600679

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Replying To IKnowBestest:  "Not correct, luk at the draw."
Fair enough

Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 663 - 05/04/2025 20:53:32    2600682

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Replying To A_Chairde:  "Ok, but why always Moate that make up the numbers in the sole junior group? This will be the third year in a row that Moate are with them"
Fair point, they probably should make it like the intermediate and senior with an A and B (4 in A and 2 from B progress). All they need to do is a do a playoff with the beaten quarter finalists this year but I'm sure some clubs would object.

Bluelake (Westmeath) - Posts: 236 - 05/04/2025 21:16:05    2600687

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Replying To Bluelake:  "Fair point, they probably should make it like the intermediate and senior with an A and B (4 in A and 2 from B progress). All they need to do is a do a playoff with the beaten quarter finalists this year but I'm sure some clubs would object."
The shuld do tat or It shuld be a draw to see wat 2nd team goes in with the 1st teams.

Not fare that the same team needs 2 play the second teams who don't get weaker as the competition goes on the same was second teams do.

IKnowBestest (Westmeath) - Posts: 7 - 05/04/2025 22:49:05    2600707

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Been looking at the league tables and this weekend's fixtures since we've just nearly wrapped up a round 5 across all divisions. I've also seen a bit of chat on the forum lately about the junior groups and a few other bits. Just to be clear-this isn't me having a go at South Westmeath or anything-but there are a few things that are a bit worrying.

Starting with Division 3: Kinnegad are pretty much guaranteed promotion to Division 2 at this point. It's also looking very likely that The Dons will be going up with them-unless Castledaly manage to win their next two games, which could shake things up a bit. Down the bottom, it looks like Moate are almost certainly going down, and Maryland could be joining them, although they still have a chance to stay up.

In Division 2, I think it's fair to say Ballymore are going down-five losses already, including two or three heavy ones. I'd expect Tang to go down with them since they've already lost to Lomans and Shamrocks and still have some tough games ahead. That said, The Bridge are in a tricky spot too and could easily be dragged into the drop.

Not sure if it's happened before, but there's a real chance we could see Division 2 next year featuring Shamrocks, Lomans, Downs, and Kinnegad. That'd be huge for North Westmeath and really shows the strength and depth in those clubs.

I know some people say the league doesn't matter, but if you look at the results, you can't ignore the progress. In a few years, I could easily see one or two of these clubs pushing up to immediate A or B and holding their own. On the other hand, I can't see Finea staying up this year-they've had a few heavy defeats already, especially last week against Tyrrellspass when they lost by 36 points. I get that it's only the league, but that kind of result isn't a great sign.

It's a pity really-you'd love to see the junior winners stay up and be competitive for a few seasons, as Multy has only really been the last club to go up and stay competitive teams like bal, Kilbeggan and finea have been up and down so much the past 7/8 years.

Fighting-Cocks69 (Westmeath) - Posts: 72 - 05/04/2025 23:13:28    2600709

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Replying To Fighting-Cocks69:  "Been looking at the league tables and this weekend's fixtures since we've just nearly wrapped up a round 5 across all divisions. I've also seen a bit of chat on the forum lately about the junior groups and a few other bits. Just to be clear-this isn't me having a go at South Westmeath or anything-but there are a few things that are a bit worrying.

Starting with Division 3: Kinnegad are pretty much guaranteed promotion to Division 2 at this point. It's also looking very likely that The Dons will be going up with them-unless Castledaly manage to win their next two games, which could shake things up a bit. Down the bottom, it looks like Moate are almost certainly going down, and Maryland could be joining them, although they still have a chance to stay up.

In Division 2, I think it's fair to say Ballymore are going down-five losses already, including two or three heavy ones. I'd expect Tang to go down with them since they've already lost to Lomans and Shamrocks and still have some tough games ahead. That said, The Bridge are in a tricky spot too and could easily be dragged into the drop.

Not sure if it's happened before, but there's a real chance we could see Division 2 next year featuring Shamrocks, Lomans, Downs, and Kinnegad. That'd be huge for North Westmeath and really shows the strength and depth in those clubs.

I know some people say the league doesn't matter, but if you look at the results, you can't ignore the progress. In a few years, I could easily see one or two of these clubs pushing up to immediate A or B and holding their own. On the other hand, I can't see Finea staying up this year-they've had a few heavy defeats already, especially last week against Tyrrellspass when they lost by 36 points. I get that it's only the league, but that kind of result isn't a great sign.

It's a pity really-you'd love to see the junior winners stay up and be competitive for a few seasons, as Multy has only really been the last club to go up and stay competitive teams like bal, Kilbeggan and finea have been up and down so much the past 7/8 years."
Garrycastle and Moate 2nd and 3rd in Div 1, Tubberclair top of Division 2, Castledaly likely to come out of Division 3, Ballinagore top of Division 4, Tubberclair top of Division 5. When you say it's huge for North Westmeath who exactly are you referring to? There's no split between North and South; but coming up with stuff like your last post would suggest you see things that way. People on this forum can't even decide what constitutes North and South, so who is it huge for exactly? Do you think Loman's, Shamrocks, The Downs and Kinnegad actually want to see their rivals going well.?

OverTheHill85 (Westmeath) - Posts: 49 - 06/04/2025 11:38:29    2600739

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Replying To Fighting-Cocks69:  "Been looking at the league tables and this weekend's fixtures since we've just nearly wrapped up a round 5 across all divisions. I've also seen a bit of chat on the forum lately about the junior groups and a few other bits. Just to be clear-this isn't me having a go at South Westmeath or anything-but there are a few things that are a bit worrying.

Starting with Division 3: Kinnegad are pretty much guaranteed promotion to Division 2 at this point. It's also looking very likely that The Dons will be going up with them-unless Castledaly manage to win their next two games, which could shake things up a bit. Down the bottom, it looks like Moate are almost certainly going down, and Maryland could be joining them, although they still have a chance to stay up.

In Division 2, I think it's fair to say Ballymore are going down-five losses already, including two or three heavy ones. I'd expect Tang to go down with them since they've already lost to Lomans and Shamrocks and still have some tough games ahead. That said, The Bridge are in a tricky spot too and could easily be dragged into the drop.

Not sure if it's happened before, but there's a real chance we could see Division 2 next year featuring Shamrocks, Lomans, Downs, and Kinnegad. That'd be huge for North Westmeath and really shows the strength and depth in those clubs.

I know some people say the league doesn't matter, but if you look at the results, you can't ignore the progress. In a few years, I could easily see one or two of these clubs pushing up to immediate A or B and holding their own. On the other hand, I can't see Finea staying up this year-they've had a few heavy defeats already, especially last week against Tyrrellspass when they lost by 36 points. I get that it's only the league, but that kind of result isn't a great sign.

It's a pity really-you'd love to see the junior winners stay up and be competitive for a few seasons, as Multy has only really been the last club to go up and stay competitive teams like bal, Kilbeggan and finea have been up and down so much the past 7/8 years."
Castledaly have 6 points from 3 games, the downs have 6 points from 5 games, not sure exactly how it's looking "very likely" that the downs will get promoted ahead of them

Iakecounty90 (Westmeath) - Posts: 5 - 06/04/2025 12:00:25    2600740

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Replying To A_Chairde:  "Why is Moate in with the junior clubs again ?"
Moate is in that group because there is less 1st than 2nd teams in J1 and when the first time the second teams outnumbered the first teams (2020 when Delvin was relegated) moate came up from J2 so they have been put in with the second teams and will stay there until the number of first teams increases in J1

DixieNormus (Offaly) - Posts: 2 - 07/04/2025 11:00:19    2600929

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Replying To DixieNormus:  "Moate is in that group because there is less 1st than 2nd teams in J1 and when the first time the second teams outnumbered the first teams (2020 when Delvin was relegated) moate came up from J2 so they have been put in with the second teams and will stay there until the number of first teams increases in J1"
That is incorrect and even if it was its unfair.

Clubs can not be punished for winning it when they do? Who win Junior 2 the years after 2020?

How come they not go into Pot 2?

IKnowBestest (Westmeath) - Posts: 7 - 07/04/2025 12:04:24    2600942

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Replying To IKnowBestest:  "That is incorrect and even if it was its unfair.

Clubs can not be punished for winning it when they do? Who win Junior 2 the years after 2020?

How come they not go into Pot 2?"
There should be a draw to decide which second team goes into the sole Junior side but keeping them mainly separated is there for a reason. A second team can be very different in round 1 to round 5 if their first team gets a run of injuries so keeping them apart is a good thing for the sole Junior clubs. It's a big discussion in general because if you say you want to improve the standard by involving the second teams then surely the best thing is to mix from the start and let the chips lie but that can't happen for the reason I gave. Westmeath clubs won't agree on the future for the competition as a Senior B competition is not valued by the big clubs and if you mix Junior 1 and 2 you could see some big beatings handed out which does no-one any good

Darragh (Westmeath) - Posts: 316 - 07/04/2025 15:06:46    2600980

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Replying To Darragh:  "There should be a draw to decide which second team goes into the sole Junior side but keeping them mainly separated is there for a reason. A second team can be very different in round 1 to round 5 if their first team gets a run of injuries so keeping them apart is a good thing for the sole Junior clubs. It's a big discussion in general because if you say you want to improve the standard by involving the second teams then surely the best thing is to mix from the start and let the chips lie but that can't happen for the reason I gave. Westmeath clubs won't agree on the future for the competition as a Senior B competition is not valued by the big clubs and if you mix Junior 1 and 2 you could see some big beatings handed out which does no-one any good"
Why don't we take 2nd teams out of junior championship and have a solo 2nd team championship.

Have the same rules in the 2nd team championship example, if you play senior championship you cannot play 2nd team championship. You have to name 15 players if you are senior club and 12 if you are an intermediate club.

Get rid of Junior 2 and put all the juniors teams in a junior championship.

Temple56 (Westmeath) - Posts: 545 - 07/04/2025 16:09:50    2600988

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Replying To Temple56:  "Why don't we take 2nd teams out of junior championship and have a solo 2nd team championship.

Have the same rules in the 2nd team championship example, if you play senior championship you cannot play 2nd team championship. You have to name 15 players if you are senior club and 12 if you are an intermediate club.

Get rid of Junior 2 and put all the juniors teams in a junior championship."
I personally agree with that and Junior clubs would side with that but I just don't think it will happen. Big clubs would probably oppose it and I don't think there is any appetite in County Board to go against that

Darragh (Westmeath) - Posts: 316 - 07/04/2025 16:28:34    2600990

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There's simply not enough quality teams to do that. Delvin, St. Paul's and Loughnavalley struggling at the moment, that leaves Bun, Joseph's, Ballinagore and Ballynacargy as the only real contenders.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 2096 - 07/04/2025 17:51:23    2601004

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Replying To Temple56:  "Why don't we take 2nd teams out of junior championship and have a solo 2nd team championship.

Have the same rules in the 2nd team championship example, if you play senior championship you cannot play 2nd team championship. You have to name 15 players if you are senior club and 12 if you are an intermediate club.

Get rid of Junior 2 and put all the juniors teams in a junior championship."
The horse has already bolted here so there's pretty much no chance of that happening.

Bluelake (Westmeath) - Posts: 236 - 07/04/2025 18:12:25    2601007

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Replying To Darragh:  "I personally agree with that and Junior clubs would side with that but I just don't think it will happen. Big clubs would probably oppose it and I don't think there is any appetite in County Board to go against that"
I woukd as well, only thought would be that it could be a case of the Junior team winning a 1 or two yrs ahead of being ready and bouncing up and down between intermediate and junior.

Dos anyone no who won Junior 2 in 2022 or 2023?

IKnowBestest (Westmeath) - Posts: 7 - 07/04/2025 18:56:18    2601011

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Replying To Temple56:  "Why don't we take 2nd teams out of junior championship and have a solo 2nd team championship.

Have the same rules in the 2nd team championship example, if you play senior championship you cannot play 2nd team championship. You have to name 15 players if you are senior club and 12 if you are an intermediate club.

Get rid of Junior 2 and put all the juniors teams in a junior championship."
Nonsense ! When was the last time a senior second team won the junior ? Was it shamrocks in 2011? And when was the last time before then.

The senior clubs second strings add considerably to the junior championship and make it a competitive championship. Having a sole junior championship would only lead to hammerings of the teams currently in j2 by the current j1 teams

Those clubs are in junior 2 for a reason and I'm not saying they are any less important than any other club in the county but that is currently their level. Take ballinagore for example relageted to junior 2 a few years ago and it took then maybe 3 years to come back up , this allowed them to start over again and start developing again getting players to the right standard to play at junior 1 level and now after a few solid years in junior 2 they are now back up ready to compete in junior 1 again , without a doubt in my opinion if they hadn't or had the chance to play at the level of junior 2 against slightly weaker opposition they would've fallen off suffering defeats to the stronger sole junior teams every year. And they will go well this year in j1

Every year there is a relagation final between the bottom team in group which means a seniors second team can be relegated from junior 1 & hopefully with some of the junior clubs in junior 2 over the next few years get it back to even groups & if not have more junior teams than senior in it.

The senior clubs second string sides take junior 1 very seriously almost as if they are a junior club themselves. Them players deserve to play at a higher level too if they are capable of it ! A sole championship to clubs second team would mean nothing to anybody
The system we have in place is a good system so why try fix something when it is not broken !

Westmeath213 (Westmeath) - Posts: 338 - 07/04/2025 21:00:36    2601026

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Great post. Ballinagore a great example of the system working. They could mount a decent tilt at the junior championship this year, lots of young mobile players. The likes of Loman's etc need a championship worth trying to win to keep their second string interested in playing. Their junior team last year had no players after two rounds who broke into senior championship side but the likes of Cillian Plunkett, Daniel McCann, Shane Mulderry, Seani Bracken and the Kennys sampled proper championship fare against strong junior players and vice versa.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 2096 - 07/04/2025 22:28:54    2601035

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