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Replying To Liffeylad: "If you're not name calling you're altering the facts in an attempt to prove your point. It was alleged there was fake signatures but it was never proven but hey don't let the truth get in the way of you trying to make a point.
I asked you a question - if your neighbours were obstructing you from going about your daily life, would you approach them and object or would you just sell up and move." Maybe you can't read I don't know.... The 'facts' are that 86 objections were received. Simple as. You can deny reality all you like. Anyone can purport to represent a community or submit an objection on their behalf. The Croke Park residents association have form in that regard. Who are they anyhow?!!!
You're trying to compare apples with oranges to try and argue your nonsensical stance. As I've said, Croke Park are the neighbours of thousands of people, there's thousands of people who go about their daily business without hassle... knew what they were buying into and so forth. You may have some disruption but Croke Park certainly ain't 'obstructing' your life.... and if it bothers you so much, move somewhere else. I'm sick to the back teeth of people like you halting progress at every turn.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 20/12/2021 13:02:24
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Replying To Square_B: "Maybe you can't read I don't know.... The 'facts' are that 86 objections were received. Simple as. You can deny reality all you like. Anyone can purport to represent a community or submit an objection on their behalf. The Croke Park residents association have form in that regard. Who are they anyhow?!!!
You're trying to compare apples with oranges to try and argue your nonsensical stance. As I've said, Croke Park are the neighbours of thousands of people, there's thousands of people who go about their daily business without hassle... knew what they were buying into and so forth. You may have some disruption but Croke Park certainly ain't 'obstructing' your life.... and if it bothers you so much, move somewhere else. I'm sick to the back teeth of people like you halting progress at every turn." Jesu your full of the joys of Christmas. Explain how having 5 GARETH Brooks concerts in Croke Park is progress.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2005 - 20/12/2021 14:04:10
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Replying To Saynothing: "Jesu your full of the joys of Christmas. Explain how having 5 GARETH Brooks concerts in Croke Park is progress." Utilising an under used stadium perhaps? I don't know maybe money grows on trees up in Tyrone GAA?
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 20/12/2021 14:53:56
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Replying To Square_B: "Maybe you can't read I don't know.... The 'facts' are that 86 objections were received. Simple as. You can deny reality all you like. Anyone can purport to represent a community or submit an objection on their behalf. The Croke Park residents association have form in that regard. Who are they anyhow?!!!
You're trying to compare apples with oranges to try and argue your nonsensical stance. As I've said, Croke Park are the neighbours of thousands of people, there's thousands of people who go about their daily business without hassle... knew what they were buying into and so forth. You may have some disruption but Croke Park certainly ain't 'obstructing' your life.... and if it bothers you so much, move somewhere else. I'm sick to the back teeth of people like you halting progress at every turn." Rubbish is rubbish irrespective of what county jersey it's gift wrapped in and lots of it on display here, what makes it so difficult to understand is that between Peter Aiken and Croke Park business sharks slowly but surely are eroding the basic human rights of residences in close proximity to Croke Park stadium however unintentional it may be.
82,000 at an All Ireland final does not emit anywhere near the same noise level that a Rock Concert or any other kind of Concert does, fact. On All Ireland final day at max crowd, the noise level reached is rarely more than from 50% ish of the crowd, the critical db level from my understanding is rarely if ever reached at all.
Someone brought living next to an Airport into the argument, for the record this is about Croke Park noise not Airport noise, however on the subject of Airports, a few years ago as it was getting busier am I correct in saying between 11 pm and 7 am reduced flights was brought in to minimise the interruption and sleeping patterns for all people that was effected by the noise, they called it compromise.
The noise level coming from a music concert using multiple 400 watt amps can go off the scale unless professionally balanced all through the concert, that is my understanding, it's very probable that all 82,000 attending a concert in Croke Park will unleash a noise that would require the noise level monitoring equipment to be recalibrated.
The arrogance of one or two to suggest that if those that don't like it should up sticks and move on, that day is gone, people move because they want to not because they have to, as in provocation. When the last concert was in Croke Park is not the question, rather when the next one will be.
To think that an agreement reached between CP and it's near residents that was rubber stamped and signed off and then was clearly broken, that say's little for our democracy and the planning process.
Some short time ago the objections numbered 1000 ish, the same people gave their names and addresses and contact number as required, perhaps not all but most,
I understand that some of the posters here are no more than WUM and so be it, never the less it's too serious a matter for to be winding people etc.
A couple of pointers known to most, - - The count of concerts has risen from, 3 to 5 to 7 and now 8, is that progress, - no that's extras.
Croke Park should never have been granted permission to rebuild its stadium at a then cost of over 110 million punts in the heart of a high density dwelling area,
Colm Stephens from Clonliffe is the chief spokesperson for the "Registered" Croke Park residence association.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 20/12/2021 15:36:43
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Replying To Saynothing: "Jesu your full of the joys of Christmas. Explain how having 5 GARETH Brooks concerts in Croke Park is progress." its not a perfect scenario but will create a lot of money that can be put to provide facilities & coaches keep us ahead of other rival field sports you need big money to do this.
Of course some residents are discorded and are entitles to object but many others have no issue.
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 878 - 20/12/2021 15:39:49
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Replying To Square_B: "Maybe you can't read I don't know.... The 'facts' are that 86 objections were received. Simple as. You can deny reality all you like. Anyone can purport to represent a community or submit an objection on their behalf. The Croke Park residents association have form in that regard. Who are they anyhow?!!!
You're trying to compare apples with oranges to try and argue your nonsensical stance. As I've said, Croke Park are the neighbours of thousands of people, there's thousands of people who go about their daily business without hassle... knew what they were buying into and so forth. You may have some disruption but Croke Park certainly ain't 'obstructing' your life.... and if it bothers you so much, move somewhere else. I'm sick to the back teeth of people like you halting progress at every turn." You appear to have the uncanny ability to write but yet seem unable to read.
Answer the question - would you object - it's a simple yes or no.
Can you please explain how allowing Croke Park to hold as many concerts they like is progress. Who or what is it progressing.
Liffeylad (Dublin) - Posts: 74 - 20/12/2021 16:00:24
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Replying To clooney: "its not a perfect scenario but will create a lot of money that can be put to provide facilities & coaches keep us ahead of other rival field sports you need big money to do this.
Of course some residents are discorded and are entitles to object but many others have no issue." Keep GAA ahead of rival sports and at the same time leave half the calendar year open for other sports.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2005 - 20/12/2021 16:24:45
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Replying To Liffeylad: "You appear to have the uncanny ability to write but yet seem unable to read.
Answer the question - would you object - it's a simple yes or no.
Can you please explain how allowing Croke Park to hold as many concerts they like is progress. Who or what is it progressing." These concerts are approved by way of a planning application to DCC are you are well aware. It's not a matter of Croke Park holding as many as they like. Croke Park are allowed to hold 3 concerts per year WITHOUT planning. The rest are subject to the rigours of the planning system. It's fairly simple but you seem to have a hard time understanding that.
Your question to me has no absolutely no relivance to the argument. So I don't know why you're persisting with such nonsence. People don't get to vett their neighbours so it has no relevance here. You can always persue legal action if you so wish but ultimately you can always move on if you don't agree with what your neighbour is at... or just get on with your life.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 20/12/2021 16:40:27
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Replying To supersub15: "Rubbish is rubbish irrespective of what county jersey it's gift wrapped in and lots of it on display here, what makes it so difficult to understand is that between Peter Aiken and Croke Park business sharks slowly but surely are eroding the basic human rights of residences in close proximity to Croke Park stadium however unintentional it may be.
82,000 at an All Ireland final does not emit anywhere near the same noise level that a Rock Concert or any other kind of Concert does, fact. On All Ireland final day at max crowd, the noise level reached is rarely more than from 50% ish of the crowd, the critical db level from my understanding is rarely if ever reached at all.
Someone brought living next to an Airport into the argument, for the record this is about Croke Park noise not Airport noise, however on the subject of Airports, a few years ago as it was getting busier am I correct in saying between 11 pm and 7 am reduced flights was brought in to minimise the interruption and sleeping patterns for all people that was effected by the noise, they called it compromise.
The noise level coming from a music concert using multiple 400 watt amps can go off the scale unless professionally balanced all through the concert, that is my understanding, it's very probable that all 82,000 attending a concert in Croke Park will unleash a noise that would require the noise level monitoring equipment to be recalibrated.
The arrogance of one or two to suggest that if those that don't like it should up sticks and move on, that day is gone, people move because they want to not because they have to, as in provocation. When the last concert was in Croke Park is not the question, rather when the next one will be.
To think that an agreement reached between CP and it's near residents that was rubber stamped and signed off and then was clearly broken, that say's little for our democracy and the planning process.
Some short time ago the objections numbered 1000 ish, the same people gave their names and addresses and contact number as required, perhaps not all but most,
I understand that some of the posters here are no more than WUM and so be it, never the less it's too serious a matter for to be winding people etc.
A couple of pointers known to most, - - The count of concerts has risen from, 3 to 5 to 7 and now 8, is that progress, - no that's extras.
Croke Park should never have been granted permission to rebuild its stadium at a then cost of over 110 million punts in the heart of a high density dwelling area,
Colm Stephens from Clonliffe is the chief spokesperson for the "Registered" Croke Park residence association." That's a lovely word splurge I must say, but largely gibberish. I assume you were one of the 86 objectors? You can't just object to something because it doesn't suit you... that's not how planning permission works I'm afraid. The agreement you refer to is not worth the paper it's wrote on. The only agreement that matters is what's agreed with DCC under a planning application. Croke Park are entitled to utilise their premises as they see fit (subject to planning permission of course).
Feel free to read the current planning application and all the restrictions in place etc - https://www.dublincity.ie/residential/planning/active-land-management/outdoor-event-licences/current-outdoor-event-licence-applications ... all perfectly reasonable.
As for this so called 'residents association' well a quick cursory glance on Facebook / Google shows that they are largely 'unknowns'... for an organisation purporting to represent the community they have one Facebook page with very little posted on it... I've never seen any reference to an AGM or a call for new members. But look... whatever keeps idle minds active and all that... thankfully residents associations, by themselves don't get to call a halt to what can & can't be done in an area.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 20/12/2021 17:14:24
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Replying To clooney: "its not a perfect scenario but will create a lot of money that can be put to provide facilities & coaches keep us ahead of other rival field sports you need big money to do this.
Of course some residents are discorded and are entitles to object but many others have no issue." Want big money then get onto the NFL and host a game in their international series. American football isn't a rival for GAA.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 20/12/2021 19:03:34
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Replying To Square_B: "Utilising an under used stadium perhaps? I don't know maybe money grows on trees up in Tyrone GAA?" Croke Park got plenty of government funding as did a lot of GAA and other sports grounds. Every taxpayer, even people with no interest in sports, are indirectly funding sports. They need to take into account the thoughts of those living near Croke Park. McKenna and his merry men and women didn't do that the last time Garth Brooks concerts were planned but mismanaged for Croke Park. It's the biggest stadium and easily accessible from public transport. But it's not the only venue in Ireland. Maybe they should have used Cork, Limerick, Galway and other sports arenas besides and including Croke Park for Brooks. It would mean more dates but less upheaval for Croke Park area residents and spread the wealth around the country. Too late for Brooks but worth considering later. McKenna seems happy to put out the lámh for concert promoters and little work for him to fill Croke Park. But not bothered for years of playoffs and Super 8 games to incentivise people into Croker for half full games. Very cosy. His remarks on Sky Sports weren't a good look for those that think he represents the GAA. He doesn't represent the GAA's views though, he represents Croke Park's business view.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7335 - 20/12/2021 19:17:55
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I am sort of on the fence a bit with this. However we had football teams and hurling teams scurrying around in the mud for the last few weeks. Croke Park and others stadiums are going to be empty in August or making money for entertainers. I hear about the money coming in from it also. The GAA brethren is large enough to put in the money themselves and do. Make the product even better that it is now and they will support it more. To hell with other sports and concerts look after your own first. These players represent the guts of our games and deserve better. There are many options to have a schedule that allows playing competitions in better conditions. I suggested two in the thread Winter Games. Not perfect or I am claiming to have all the answers or any for that matter.
Over the last couple of decades the players and the GAA supporters have risen the profile of our sports significantly. The GAA as an organization is a well run organization. It is slow however to grab the low hanging fruit because they have too many die-hards who don't want any changes.
Leaving a huge swat of the summer months devoid of the top end of our sport is playing Russian roulette for someone else to grab. This time could be used to put the club intro provincial game on show and played in decent conditions.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 20/12/2021 20:05:37
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Replying To Saynothing: "Keep GAA ahead of rival sports and at the same time leave half the calendar year open for other sports." Doesn't make any sense. As DJ Carey says, but sure what would he know :-)
Not a real club man...
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2519 - 20/12/2021 21:00:28
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Croke Park got plenty of government funding as did a lot of GAA and other sports grounds. Every taxpayer, even people with no interest in sports, are indirectly funding sports. They need to take into account the thoughts of those living near Croke Park. McKenna and his merry men and women didn't do that the last time Garth Brooks concerts were planned but mismanaged for Croke Park. It's the biggest stadium and easily accessible from public transport. But it's not the only venue in Ireland. Maybe they should have used Cork, Limerick, Galway and other sports arenas besides and including Croke Park for Brooks. It would mean more dates but less upheaval for Croke Park area residents and spread the wealth around the country. Too late for Brooks but worth considering later. McKenna seems happy to put out the lámh for concert promoters and little work for him to fill Croke Park. But not bothered for years of playoffs and Super 8 games to incentivise people into Croker for half full games. Very cosy. His remarks on Sky Sports weren't a good look for those that think he represents the GAA. He doesn't represent the GAA's views though, he represents Croke Park's business view." Croke Park is under utilised as it is. It's the only stadium in the country with 80k + seats. Nearly half the country live in Dublin. Why in the name of god would any artist want to play anywhere else if they didnt have to? You're obviously aware that any artist doesn't just show up and walk on stage. They're business people as well. Hauling around a set and support staff around Ireland makes no economic sense when the punters will come to you regardless. Whatever you think, the reality is that Peter McKenna is there to maximise commercial income for the GAA... to pay for the white elephant down in Cork and center of excellence up and down the country. Unless of course you'd rather players run round in fields of muck or have poor facilities & resources like our friends over in the FAI?
The residents have had no concerts at Croke Park for the last 3 years and a reduced schedule since Covid hit. They have a nice shiny new community & handball center, a full time liasion officer, first dips at tickets for concerts, other money invested in the community, Garda and stewarding resources for every game & concert. What more do they want? The issues are largely exaggerated by the few... and it is noticeable this time round that they was very little resistance despite all the blathering about the hundreds of objections that would be received against... 86 in the end. The rest were for the concerts (40). No big fanfare like last time. 150 people attended the meeting in September which discussed all this and from reports it was fairly mild compared to the nonsense in 2014. Most of the things that people complained about can be worked through with local community engagement. And anyone who still doesn't like what they see can always move if it's too much. I know lots of peaceful places down West that would suit.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 21/12/2021 09:30:33
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Croke Park is in the city and has been there for over 110 years- Are there many residents there that long?. It is good to make use of the facility and its not like this activity was going on 365 days a year. Should we stop the traffic and the local trains! I would like to live beside CP and would be happy with 10 or 20 concerts a year.
You are only a taxpayer when you are employed. You need a business to give employment with the result that you become a taxpayer. The GAA and indeed other sports support health and especially mental health and I would suggest that the benefits far out weight the small amount paid to these sports when compared with the billions going into our health service with multi layers of management. The GAA support small communities right across our country and Dublin GAA. As I have said before the majority of folk living locally have no problem, however if a guy goes around looking for signatures he /she will always get number up, as we as a nation are quite good at complaining and making claims- are we not close to world leaders.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 21/12/2021 09:33:53
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Replying To browncows: "Croke Park is in the city and has been there for over 110 years- Are there many residents there that long?. It is good to make use of the facility and its not like this activity was going on 365 days a year. Should we stop the traffic and the local trains! I would like to live beside CP and would be happy with 10 or 20 concerts a year.
You are only a taxpayer when you are employed. You need a business to give employment with the result that you become a taxpayer. The GAA and indeed other sports support health and especially mental health and I would suggest that the benefits far out weight the small amount paid to these sports when compared with the billions going into our health service with multi layers of management. The GAA support small communities right across our country and Dublin GAA. As I have said before the majority of folk living locally have no problem, however if a guy goes around looking for signatures he /she will always get number up, as we as a nation are quite good at complaining and making claims- are we not close to world leaders." What a sensible post this is when Croak Park opened up for Soccer & Rugby to accommodate the development of the Aviva a number of people i know were going on about Mick Hogan and Bloody Sunday ect but i know that if GAA haden't allowed this these very same people would accuse GAA of being Bigots.
You cannot please all but the positives will far outweigh the negatives IMO
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 878 - 21/12/2021 10:03:03
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Replying To supersub15: "Rubbish is rubbish irrespective of what county jersey it's gift wrapped in and lots of it on display here, what makes it so difficult to understand is that between Peter Aiken and Croke Park business sharks slowly but surely are eroding the basic human rights of residences in close proximity to Croke Park stadium however unintentional it may be.
82,000 at an All Ireland final does not emit anywhere near the same noise level that a Rock Concert or any other kind of Concert does, fact. On All Ireland final day at max crowd, the noise level reached is rarely more than from 50% ish of the crowd, the critical db level from my understanding is rarely if ever reached at all.
Someone brought living next to an Airport into the argument, for the record this is about Croke Park noise not Airport noise, however on the subject of Airports, a few years ago as it was getting busier am I correct in saying between 11 pm and 7 am reduced flights was brought in to minimise the interruption and sleeping patterns for all people that was effected by the noise, they called it compromise.
The noise level coming from a music concert using multiple 400 watt amps can go off the scale unless professionally balanced all through the concert, that is my understanding, it's very probable that all 82,000 attending a concert in Croke Park will unleash a noise that would require the noise level monitoring equipment to be recalibrated.
The arrogance of one or two to suggest that if those that don't like it should up sticks and move on, that day is gone, people move because they want to not because they have to, as in provocation. When the last concert was in Croke Park is not the question, rather when the next one will be.
To think that an agreement reached between CP and it's near residents that was rubber stamped and signed off and then was clearly broken, that say's little for our democracy and the planning process.
Some short time ago the objections numbered 1000 ish, the same people gave their names and addresses and contact number as required, perhaps not all but most,
I understand that some of the posters here are no more than WUM and so be it, never the less it's too serious a matter for to be winding people etc.
A couple of pointers known to most, - - The count of concerts has risen from, 3 to 5 to 7 and now 8, is that progress, - no that's extras.
Croke Park should never have been granted permission to rebuild its stadium at a then cost of over 110 million punts in the heart of a high density dwelling area,
Colm Stephens from Clonliffe is the chief spokesperson for the "Registered" Croke Park residence association." I haven't been on this topic for a good while but your gas, you are still posting statements from a group of disgruntled locals as if we should unquestionably assume they speak for the entire local population and as if, just because they have decided they should speak for the local population we have to follow what they say.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1337 - 21/12/2021 11:36:41
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Croke Park has slowly gone from strength to strength over the years in every sense of the word and that's good, but, - - CP is the professional hub of the gaa, it's now a hybrid organisation am I correct in saying it has its own financial advisors, legal team, own business advisors, insurance advisors, professionals to cover every eventually and obstacle it may meet day by day.? My conflict of interest is not with the Gaelic Athletic Association; rather it is with Croke Park. I was taken aback when I read, "You are only a tax payer when you are employed." How very incorrect that statement is, in my mind, tax payers are made up of, people who are employed,but also people who pay road tax, a TV license, Pay for parking, vat, property tax, and, making a purchase from Ticket Master for Croke Park concerts includes a tax, the list goes on, and on.
There's a couple of pro Concert mugs here who wouldn't know the difference between a Backing Band and an elastic band, between a Microphone and a mobil phone, jumping on the pro band wagon is not doing you lot any good, you wouldn't even make a bad chorus circus group.
CP officials / negotiators over time put together the sky deal, before we knew a thing it was signed off rolled out and installed, there was a lot of people not too happy about the sky deal but it still went through. Likewise residents of CP are not too happy with the manner in which the CP concert agreement with its residents was scrapped and the rest is history as they say. It's reasonable to assume should the legally binding agreement not have been broken in the manner that it was, a more acceptable conclusion would have been reached? It's my understanding no one knows what a reasonable amount of concerts would add up to, an agreement may not be found, but a solution will be, as they say in the music business,
"The show must go on" and it will, does Croke Park want an open ended agreement only, it would appear that way.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 21/12/2021 12:39:19
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Replying To supersub15: "Croke Park has slowly gone from strength to strength over the years in every sense of the word and that's good, but, - - CP is the professional hub of the gaa, it's now a hybrid organisation am I correct in saying it has its own financial advisors, legal team, own business advisors, insurance advisors, professionals to cover every eventually and obstacle it may meet day by day.? My conflict of interest is not with the Gaelic Athletic Association; rather it is with Croke Park. I was taken aback when I read, "You are only a tax payer when you are employed." How very incorrect that statement is, in my mind, tax payers are made up of, people who are employed,but also people who pay road tax, a TV license, Pay for parking, vat, property tax, and, making a purchase from Ticket Master for Croke Park concerts includes a tax, the list goes on, and on.
There's a couple of pro Concert mugs here who wouldn't know the difference between a Backing Band and an elastic band, between a Microphone and a mobil phone, jumping on the pro band wagon is not doing you lot any good, you wouldn't even make a bad chorus circus group.
CP officials / negotiators over time put together the sky deal, before we knew a thing it was signed off rolled out and installed, there was a lot of people not too happy about the sky deal but it still went through. Likewise residents of CP are not too happy with the manner in which the CP concert agreement with its residents was scrapped and the rest is history as they say. It's reasonable to assume should the legally binding agreement not have been broken in the manner that it was, a more acceptable conclusion would have been reached? It's my understanding no one knows what a reasonable amount of concerts would add up to, an agreement may not be found, but a solution will be, as they say in the music business,
"The show must go on" and it will, does Croke Park want an open ended agreement only, it would appear that way." Another lovely masterpiece of gibberish. Let me repeat. This 'written agreement' you keep referring to is not worth the paper it's wrote on. If it's 'legally binding' then the residents associations should head to court and see how they get on in front of a judge.
Croke Park already has An Bord Pleanala approval to host 3 concerts WITHOUT planning permission per annum. This is in place from the 90's. Anything else must receive planning approval from DCC... which they have applied for and have been granted. The concerts are going ahead this time. End of story. So much nonsense over 5 concerts spread out over 2 weekends. I see now another faceless group have come to the fore 'purporting' to represent 1500 households and 200 businesses.... the 'District 7 Community Alliance'... apparently they're happy now https://www.thesun.ie/tvandshowbiz/music/7986416/garth-brooks-residents-croke-park-latest/ The whole lot is some joke over 5 concerts.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 21/12/2021 13:16:25
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Replying To Square_B: "Another lovely masterpiece of gibberish. Let me repeat. This 'written agreement' you keep referring to is not worth the paper it's wrote on. If it's 'legally binding' then the residents associations should head to court and see how they get on in front of a judge.
Croke Park already has An Bord Pleanala approval to host 3 concerts WITHOUT planning permission per annum. This is in place from the 90's. Anything else must receive planning approval from DCC... which they have applied for and have been granted. The concerts are going ahead this time. End of story. So much nonsense over 5 concerts spread out over 2 weekends. I see now another faceless group have come to the fore 'purporting' to represent 1500 households and 200 businesses.... the 'District 7 Community Alliance'... apparently they're happy now https://www.thesun.ie/tvandshowbiz/music/7986416/garth-brooks-residents-croke-park-latest/ The whole lot is some joke over 5 concerts." Whatever you say. - -
Merry Christmas.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 21/12/2021 15:24:07
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