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Wicklow GAA thread

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Replying To footballlover:  "Couple of interesting things worthy of discussion in the last week or so.

County Board - 250k of an overspend last year and a slap on the wrist from the auditors from the reading of the Wicklow People:
- An increase in the levys to clubs at a time when most are experiencing rising costs themselves in their running.
- The county boards allocation of "Small" "Medium" & "Large" clubs seems to be some way off the general consensus of the clubs.

Teams of the year in the Wicklow people - some interesting selections on both the senior and Intermediate football ones with lads selected who played very little bar maybe the final game or so. Would be interested to hear does anyone have any glaring obvious omissions?

Championship Structure remaining as is - Good or Bad thing? Personally I was in favour of the format from 2022."
Some very good discussion points indeed.
1. The overspend. Was the 300k plus ( per annum for 5 yrs) sponsorship which was given so much publicity last year included in the yearly accounts?. If it was, then there is a massive increase in spending. If it wasn't, that begs the question - is it real or pie in the sky.
2. The clubs levy - as the chairperson said, it hadn't increased for 10 yrs and will hardly break the bank in the clubs.
3. The definition of small and large clubs is either amusing, amazing or possibly both.
4. I can no longer get to enough games to nominate other players.
5. I liked the '23 structure. I'm not too sure if there was much of a difference to '22.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1028 - 10/01/2024 20:46:28    2519484

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Some very good discussion points indeed.
1. The overspend. Was the 300k plus ( per annum for 5 yrs) sponsorship which was given so much publicity last year included in the yearly accounts?. If it was, then there is a massive increase in spending. If it wasn't, that begs the question - is it real or pie in the sky.
2. The clubs levy - as the chairperson said, it hadn't increased for 10 yrs and will hardly break the bank in the clubs.
3. The definition of small and large clubs is either amusing, amazing or possibly both.
4. I can no longer get to enough games to nominate other players.
5. I liked the '23 structure. I'm not too sure if there was much of a difference to '22."
Dig a hole, throw Wicklow GAA in. Wait a few years if green shoots appear then we have hope but as it is we are dead. I will go to Ratnew on Saturday as I never miss a game but I know whats happening and so do many more.

heavyheart19 (Wicklow) - Posts: 118 - 10/01/2024 23:29:55    2519516

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Replying To Victorious87:  "That's the issue with the cycle of new players in and out that we have with the football team. It takes time for lads at 21/22 to get into the shape needed to play at senior intercounty level. We seem to have a new crop of players each year, many of whom are gone after a year and the resources gone into their strength and conditioning are, for lack of a better word, wasted.

I find it strange how there only seems to be 3/4 players from Blessington and Pats and none from Rathnew on the panel. Blessington and Pats seem to consistently have the fittest and strongest panels. There seems to be a big group of players who've been playing at weaker senior and intermediate clubs. I'm not against picking players from smaller clubs but surely we're not picking enough from the strongest clubs?"
To be honest you expect most of the players to come from the stronger clubs. But i believe there is not much between any clubs in the Wicklow. Our country campions did not pull up any trees in Lenister. For what is its worth when Pats won the Championship I though Dean Healy was outstanding, a man against boys at times, with his main support act being Kelly and Mcwalters,. Every time I have seen Blessington the Mcloughlins seem to be there stand out players to me. Again i have not seen all these teams games. Weirdly enough (in my opinion), the club with the best 6 or 7 players is Avondale the team that got regulated. They nearly beat Blessington in the last group game minus Conor Byrne.

Groundskeeper5 (Wicklow) - Posts: 13 - 11/01/2024 09:10:37    2519538

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Replying To heavyheart19:  "Dig a hole, throw Wicklow GAA in. Wait a few years if green shoots appear then we have hope but as it is we are dead. I will go to Ratnew on Saturday as I never miss a game but I know whats happening and so do many more."
Maybe some green shoots might be appearing in the Siggerson Cup , spring is on the way after all.

I see 4 Wicklow players started for DIT in the win over UCG. With a 5th on the bench.

Someone on here be happy to see Conor fee named at corner forward :)

Kevin Quinn started for DCU in the win over Queens. With Chris O Brien on the bench. Interestingly no Dublin players in the first 15.

Oisin McGraynor got 1-3 in Carlow loss to Athlone.

Tom Moran played for Maynooth in the win over CIT.

Hopefully there is a few more I have missed.

I did see a comment on here saying on how few Wicklow players are in competition and I would have had to agree. But this years showing looks a step in the right direction.

Groundskeeper5 (Wicklow) - Posts: 13 - 11/01/2024 09:30:04    2519540

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Replying To Groundskeeper5:  "Maybe some green shoots might be appearing in the Siggerson Cup , spring is on the way after all.

I see 4 Wicklow players started for DIT in the win over UCG. With a 5th on the bench.

Someone on here be happy to see Conor fee named at corner forward :)

Kevin Quinn started for DCU in the win over Queens. With Chris O Brien on the bench. Interestingly no Dublin players in the first 15.

Oisin McGraynor got 1-3 in Carlow loss to Athlone.

Tom Moran played for Maynooth in the win over CIT.

Hopefully there is a few more I have missed.

I did see a comment on here saying on how few Wicklow players are in competition and I would have had to agree. But this years showing looks a step in the right direction."
Queens beat DCU but I think they are still in the competition through the back door.

TopDrawer (Wicklow) - Posts: 56 - 11/01/2024 10:25:10    2519557

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Some very good discussion points indeed.
1. The overspend. Was the 300k plus ( per annum for 5 yrs) sponsorship which was given so much publicity last year included in the yearly accounts?. If it was, then there is a massive increase in spending. If it wasn't, that begs the question - is it real or pie in the sky.
2. The clubs levy - as the chairperson said, it hadn't increased for 10 yrs and will hardly break the bank in the clubs.
3. The definition of small and large clubs is either amusing, amazing or possibly both.
4. I can no longer get to enough games to nominate other players.
5. I liked the '23 structure. I'm not too sure if there was much of a difference to '22."
A cynic might suggest that the levy increase is handy way for the county board to get their hands on some of the JP McManus money which was stipulated to go directly to the clubs.

Hawkeye2 (Wicklow) - Posts: 122 - 11/01/2024 13:52:08    2519612

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Replying To Hawkeye2:  "A cynic might suggest that the levy increase is handy way for the county board to get their hands on some of the JP McManus money which was stipulated to go directly to the clubs."
And i would guess the cynic would be right in my book atleast. While the argument that it hasn't been raised in 10 years is fair to an extent, I imagine if JP hadnt donated the money, they wouldn't have looked at raising it this year.

footballlover (Wicklow) - Posts: 98 - 11/01/2024 14:48:07    2519631

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Replying To footballlover:  "And i would guess the cynic would be right in my book atleast. While the argument that it hasn't been raised in 10 years is fair to an extent, I imagine if JP hadnt donated the money, they wouldn't have looked at raising it this year."
You are quite possibly right but to my way of thinking, that quarter of a mill "black hole" needs attention. Another year like that and Croke Park would have to step in as we would be up to our necks in dog poo.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1028 - 11/01/2024 21:26:52    2519706

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Replying To Groundskeeper5:  "Maybe some green shoots might be appearing in the Siggerson Cup , spring is on the way after all.

I see 4 Wicklow players started for DIT in the win over UCG. With a 5th on the bench.

Someone on here be happy to see Conor fee named at corner forward :)

Kevin Quinn started for DCU in the win over Queens. With Chris O Brien on the bench. Interestingly no Dublin players in the first 15.

Oisin McGraynor got 1-3 in Carlow loss to Athlone.

Tom Moran played for Maynooth in the win over CIT.

Hopefully there is a few more I have missed.

I did see a comment on here saying on how few Wicklow players are in competition and I would have had to agree. But this years showing looks a step in the right direction."
It is good to see young players from the county participating in these third level games. It can't do these players any harm to get exposed to top level competition at a young age. In my opinion which I have voiced repeatedly: in order for young players to become better, they need to be competing against the best in their age group as often as possible at underage so that when they graduate to senior at club and county level, they know what to expect and are comfortable taking on the best. In relation to the increase in levy to club and the black hole. What happened to the big sponsorship deal that was announced last year? Has these deals fallen through? I think preparation of intercounty teams is out of control in general. Weaker counties who don't have sponsors lining up to give them money are expected to compete against counties who have endless amounts of sponsorship money or private benefactor, it is a very uneven playing field and of course the powers that be are turning a blind eye to the situation. Again, I have raised the point before - there should be a cap on spending for all counties regardless of what division a team plays in. To expect a small county to compete against the likes of Dublin, Kerry in football and Limerick in hurling; who have endless resources is as unfair as the population gap. While I understand the population imbalance is difficult to address, the money cap should be easier to police.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1933 - 12/01/2024 09:46:27    2519750

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "It is good to see young players from the county participating in these third level games. It can't do these players any harm to get exposed to top level competition at a young age. In my opinion which I have voiced repeatedly: in order for young players to become better, they need to be competing against the best in their age group as often as possible at underage so that when they graduate to senior at club and county level, they know what to expect and are comfortable taking on the best. In relation to the increase in levy to club and the black hole. What happened to the big sponsorship deal that was announced last year? Has these deals fallen through? I think preparation of intercounty teams is out of control in general. Weaker counties who don't have sponsors lining up to give them money are expected to compete against counties who have endless amounts of sponsorship money or private benefactor, it is a very uneven playing field and of course the powers that be are turning a blind eye to the situation. Again, I have raised the point before - there should be a cap on spending for all counties regardless of what division a team plays in. To expect a small county to compete against the likes of Dublin, Kerry in football and Limerick in hurling; who have endless resources is as unfair as the population gap. While I understand the population imbalance is difficult to address, the money cap should be easier to police."
That was a point I raised also and nobody picked up
on it yet. My understanding of it was that there would be 1.5 million over 5 yrs. To my simple mind that's 300k per year. Now that money either came in or it didn't. If it did and we are still 250k in the hole, then we are past redemption. I can't believe we went over half a million down in one year. A quarter of a million is hard enough to get your head around. So, we can take it that the money isn't in, and who knows if it ever will ? Either way, 250k is a massive loss in a given year and if it isn't addressed, all sorts of flags and sirens will go off in Croke Park. Whether that would be a good or bad development is a debate for another day.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1028 - 12/01/2024 11:11:57    2519783

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Replying To Freethinker:  "That was a point I raised also and nobody picked up
on it yet. My understanding of it was that there would be 1.5 million over 5 yrs. To my simple mind that's 300k per year. Now that money either came in or it didn't. If it did and we are still 250k in the hole, then we are past redemption. I can't believe we went over half a million down in one year. A quarter of a million is hard enough to get your head around. So, we can take it that the money isn't in, and who knows if it ever will ? Either way, 250k is a massive loss in a given year and if it isn't addressed, all sorts of flags and sirens will go off in Croke Park. Whether that would be a good or bad development is a debate for another day."
I've long held the belief, and advocated on here & elsewhere, that we will only ever see meaningful change in Wicklow via some mechanism where Croke Park comes in and takes direct control of GAA administration and effectively takes this away from the County Board.

We've had over a hundred years to make some sort of progress and have really nothing to show for it and then when you read about the shenanigans at the recent County Board meeting around the Small/Med/Large club designations and the fact that they have struggled to even fill positions on the board!

Croke Park have shown before, particularly where finances begin to get out of control , that they are not slow to step in and exert control like I believe they done in Kildare post the McGeeney era.

Ideally some of sort of committee , chaired by a John Costello type, directly appointed by Croke Park tasked with implementing a 5 year strategy , and who have final say on all GAA Administration activities in the County - Finance, Player Welfare & Development, Sponsorship , Marketing & PR, Discipline, Club Development, Infrastructure Development.

Hawkeye2 (Wicklow) - Posts: 122 - 12/01/2024 17:07:24    2519883

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Replying To Freethinker:  "You are quite possibly right but to my way of thinking, that quarter of a mill "black hole" needs attention. Another year like that and Croke Park would have to step in as we would be up to our necks in dog poo."
Do we not have a full time administrator who should surely be keeping things like that in check? This is a massive problem that has arisen and the JP money is going to save their bacon.

heavyheart19 (Wicklow) - Posts: 118 - 12/01/2024 22:00:37    2519922

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Replying To Freethinker:  "That was a point I raised also and nobody picked up
on it yet. My understanding of it was that there would be 1.5 million over 5 yrs. To my simple mind that's 300k per year. Now that money either came in or it didn't. If it did and we are still 250k in the hole, then we are past redemption. I can't believe we went over half a million down in one year. A quarter of a million is hard enough to get your head around. So, we can take it that the money isn't in, and who knows if it ever will ? Either way, 250k is a massive loss in a given year and if it isn't addressed, all sorts of flags and sirens will go off in Croke Park. Whether that would be a good or bad development is a debate for another day."
I don't envy volunteers their job working on county boards. Running an intercounty setup catering for senior and underage teams plus administering competitions, discipline, finances etc for clubs is equivalent to running a small to medium size business. It requires expertise which is why other county boards try to attract personnel with experience in running businesses, financial expertise and in some cases legal minds and in a lot of cases on a full time basis. I'm not sure what the level of expertise is on wicklow executive/county board. The perception from the outside and what I have read and speak with over the years and from people who know more about this than me is that the executive/county board is a closed shop and that anyone new is probably not going to get a seat at the table or if they do, it won't be for long. I don't know if this is accurate but if it is then things won't be run properly as politics trumps expertise. Reading in the wicklow people there seems to be a lot of questions in relation to how the county board found themselves in this position and why it is only being highlighted now - is it to coincide with the money from JP McManus; I don't know. It certainly seems strange that certain clubs who are to the forefront of gaelic football in the county are deems as smaller than some smaller clubs; there certainly needs to be an investigation as to what is wrong there. Finally in relation to croke park and oversight. To the best of my knowledge; croke park will oversee financial matters when a county gets itself into trouble but this only applies to financial matters. I don't envisage there will ever be a scenario where outsiders come in, on mass to wicklow or another county and run the show full stop. Do I think this would benefit gaelic games in wicklow? Probably as we seem to continue to make the same mistakes over and over, fresh eyes would implement change - how would the clubs and county react to such a scenario?

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1933 - 13/01/2024 13:24:16    2519977

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Replying To heavyheart19:  "Dig a hole, throw Wicklow GAA in. Wait a few years if green shoots appear then we have hope but as it is we are dead. I will go to Ratnew on Saturday as I never miss a game but I know whats happening and so do many more."
Well Heavyheart. How was today's offering ? I am indisposed presently so couldn't make the game. I've been scanning everything to see if I can get a report but no luck yet.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1028 - 13/01/2024 19:37:06    2520048

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Well Heavyheart. How was today's offering ? I am indisposed presently so couldn't make the game. I've been scanning everything to see if I can get a report but no luck yet."
I eventually found a report on the Laois Express site. It seems that Laois put out an "experimental" side. Still, judging by the scorers, ours was pretty "experimental" as well. Good to see Dean Healy back. It seems to me that while we might have an abundance of young, raw talent, we might be short on experience. At least Oisin has another game now to assess what he has before the league kicks off.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1028 - 14/01/2024 09:15:36    2520084

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I eventually found a report on the Laois Express site. It seems that Laois put out an "experimental" side. Still, judging by the scorers, ours was pretty "experimental" as well. Good to see Dean Healy back. It seems to me that while we might have an abundance of young, raw talent, we might be short on experience. At least Oisin has another game now to assess what he has before the league kicks off."
I think Dean Healy will be a vital player for Wicklow and our campaign in division three. His experience and no shortage of skill will be required so it is good to see him back. Following the game on twitter, seems to be a good spread of scorers. Have played division four team so far so a step up in taking on louth who are operating in division two for a couple of seasons now - we'll find out a bit more about the team going into the league.

Bad result against Kildare in the hurling kehoe cup. I know Kildare are on a different level due to amount of work being put in throughout the county. Hopefully the powers that be in wicklow can do something in wicklow as we always competed well against counties like kildare in hurling.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1933 - 14/01/2024 15:50:07    2520140

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I was at the hurling match. Only one Bray player started. Not sure where the rest of them were. We'll need them back if we are to compete. Kildare seemed a step above us in most areas.

On the juvenile front I hear there are big changes afoot in the academy squads. Limited parental involvement in squad selection and management from now on. Can only be a good thing if we have the resources to fund it.

liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 176 - 14/01/2024 20:07:25    2520182

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Well Heavyheart. How was today's offering ? I am indisposed presently so couldn't make the game. I've been scanning everything to see if I can get a report but no luck yet."
It was good. Laois poor but I was chatting to a supporter and he was stuggling knowing the Laois players. It was basically their third string. Rathnew great hosts and are a well run club (saying that thru gritted teeth). Another decent game before Down in league opener.

heavyheart19 (Wicklow) - Posts: 118 - 14/01/2024 21:34:58    2520190

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Replying To liam500:  "I was at the hurling match. Only one Bray player started. Not sure where the rest of them were. We'll need them back if we are to compete. Kildare seemed a step above us in most areas.

On the juvenile front I hear there are big changes afoot in the academy squads. Limited parental involvement in squad selection and management from now on. Can only be a good thing if we have the resources to fund it."
I was looking through the team sheet and I see who I believe is the best hurler in the county bar none is still missing. He missed most of last year through injury, I'm told, and I hope he still isn't out injured. That Kavanagh lad from Glenealy is a fine hurler. I believe he was abroad last year or so and he will improve. I'm not too sure that I would pack 10 or 12 of one team like last year though. With all due respect to them, they are not all that good. But then, that will be Casey's call.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1028 - 14/01/2024 22:06:35    2520191

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Replying To Hawkeye2:  "I've long held the belief, and advocated on here & elsewhere, that we will only ever see meaningful change in Wicklow via some mechanism where Croke Park comes in and takes direct control of GAA administration and effectively takes this away from the County Board.

We've had over a hundred years to make some sort of progress and have really nothing to show for it and then when you read about the shenanigans at the recent County Board meeting around the Small/Med/Large club designations and the fact that they have struggled to even fill positions on the board!

Croke Park have shown before, particularly where finances begin to get out of control , that they are not slow to step in and exert control like I believe they done in Kildare post the McGeeney era.

Ideally some of sort of committee , chaired by a John Costello type, directly appointed by Croke Park tasked with implementing a 5 year strategy , and who have final say on all GAA Administration activities in the County - Finance, Player Welfare & Development, Sponsorship , Marketing & PR, Discipline, Club Development, Infrastructure Development."
Mr Hawkeye is correct, Croke Park did take over things over here in Kildare for a while.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2908 - 15/01/2024 03:28:11    2520207

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