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Wicklow GAA thread

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Replying To dubarra:  "I've heard it all now ,so you reckon slow lateral play is a recipe for success it's no wonder we can't win games if that's the attitude of coaches in the County.You also bring up population and numbers as an excuse if this the case in Wicklow how come Bray with a population of over 30,000 people can't win a senior football championship in Wicklow. Greystones and Arklow also have a large population and have never won a championship .And when someone questions the level of coaching in the county you spin every excuse you can think of and question their right to give an opinion on this form."
So you're saying that the specific teams I mentioned didn't play a slow, lateral, low-risk game? Or are you just taking me making a specific example of teams who've had success playing that way and making it out as if I'm saying everyone should play a slow, lateral handpassing style of play? I think you're purposefully trying to misrepresent what I said for some reason?

I'm getting a bit tired of replying to these oversimplified comments like "Well there's a big population here but they don't win, so you're wrong". I'm sure you saw my posts where I pointed out that Naas CBS have developed a very strong culture of GAA thanks to some of the teachers who are also heavily involved in Naas GAA, it's not just that they have higher numbers, there are a variety of reasons they are stronger than the two West Wicklow schools I mentioned, one of them being the amount of pupils, it's not the only reason.

I'd say Gaelic football is behind hurling, rugby and soccer in Bray and it's definitely behind soccer in Arklow. Again they have big populations, it doesn't mean they're all football mad like they would be in say, Baltinglass.

But anyway, don't let my explanations get in the way of you're desire to have a pop at me by taking one of my points and offering some oversimplified counter argument.

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 07/03/2022 09:51:41    2404180

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Replying To Sweetspot:  "At what age are you suggesting this happens? I played soccer, football and basketball up to the age of 18 when I was playing with the Kildare minors and genuinely hadn't the time, but never felt the pressure from anyone to drop the other sports I played in my childhood.."
Yeah it's a ridiculous idea. I played soccer, Gaelic football and rugby up to the age of 16. I remember going through different phases of enjoying each sport more than the others depending on the time of year, success of the teams I was on etc. Drives me mad when I hear grown adults telling children to stop playing a sport to focus on one.

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 07/03/2022 09:53:41    2404181

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Replying To roseyinthegarden:  "Can I ask a question here. Most posters are complaining about the level of coaching our children are getting. Are we referring to club coaches or the coaches at development squad level ?"
I don't know myself, most underage teams in my club would have at least one coach who've at least done the foundation coaching course which gives you a decent idea of drills and games to do with kids. I don't really know who's coaching at development squad level to be honest. Our under 17s and under 20s have been pretty competitive in recent years and from speaking to people who'd know a bit more about development sides than I would, the Garden County Academy seems to have been pretty successful in terms of getting young fellas up to train for the development sides.

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 07/03/2022 10:03:05    2404184

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Replying To Victorious87:  "Yeah it's a ridiculous idea. I played soccer, Gaelic football and rugby up to the age of 16. I remember going through different phases of enjoying each sport more than the others depending on the time of year, success of the teams I was on etc. Drives me mad when I hear grown adults telling children to stop playing a sport to focus on one."
I just find it weird as I live on the border myself so would probably have the same connections to the clubs this poster is getting their info from, yet I don't know of any clubs around me telling kids they can't play other sports.

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 07/03/2022 10:31:51    2404191

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Replying To Victorious87:  "So you're saying that the specific teams I mentioned didn't play a slow, lateral, low-risk game? Or are you just taking me making a specific example of teams who've had success playing that way and making it out as if I'm saying everyone should play a slow, lateral handpassing style of play? I think you're purposefully trying to misrepresent what I said for some reason?

I'm getting a bit tired of replying to these oversimplified comments like "Well there's a big population here but they don't win, so you're wrong". I'm sure you saw my posts where I pointed out that Naas CBS have developed a very strong culture of GAA thanks to some of the teachers who are also heavily involved in Naas GAA, it's not just that they have higher numbers, there are a variety of reasons they are stronger than the two West Wicklow schools I mentioned, one of them being the amount of pupils, it's not the only reason.

I'd say Gaelic football is behind hurling, rugby and soccer in Bray and it's definitely behind soccer in Arklow. Again they have big populations, it doesn't mean they're all football mad like they would be in say, Baltinglass.

But anyway, don't let my explanations get in the way of you're desire to have a pop at me by taking one of my points and offering some oversimplified counter argument."
Before i make my point, i commend any person who gives up their free time to coach underage teams and i am not on here criticising these individuals. Now to my point; i believe there is a correlation between the quality of club football and the county team. Afterall the best club footballers should by right be playing for the county team unless they opt not to. In the past Wicklow club were one of the favourites for the provincial club championship but in the last 20 year that record has been in decline across the various grade - check the record. There has to be a reason for this and based upon what i saw in the club championship, the overall standard of footballerin the county is inferior to the majority of other counties in Leinster and beyond. And the quality of player is inferior to the quality of player we produced in the past. For example, we have no out field player who is a reliable free taker since Tony Hannon retired almost a decade ago. We have struggled to develop players in certain positions especially in the forward division. To me this suggests that the methods clubs are using to produce players need to be looked at. I'm not saying it needs to be scrapped but it certainly needs some changing. It must be very difficult to sell playing for Wicklow when there are so many other sports and activities open to young people. The county teams are the shop window for this and the window doesn't look attractive presently.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 07/03/2022 12:45:14    2404236

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Replying To Victorious87:  "I don't know myself, most underage teams in my club would have at least one coach who've at least done the foundation coaching course which gives you a decent idea of drills and games to do with kids. I don't really know who's coaching at development squad level to be honest. Our under 17s and under 20s have been pretty competitive in recent years and from speaking to people who'd know a bit more about development sides than I would, the Garden County Academy seems to have been pretty successful in terms of getting young fellas up to train for the development sides."
First Time poster but have been reading this tread for a while now, so go easy. decided to jump in.
i believe there is plenty of talent in WW having came in and been travelling around with the young ones both in boys and girls. The question though is are underage players at club level being developed for the future senior teams ?or is it about win win win at all costs at underage level? this is where I believe development is falling down in clubs and perhaps kids walking away. One example I've seen most prominent is underage clubs around WW putting their tallest most physical player in at full forward and lumping the ball into him, lack of skill needed and theres no development of players around him. Those players will physically will be caught up with as they get older and therefore the clubs will suffer with lack of development. Plus the games isnt played like that anymore at adult level.

I was at a game last year and the club had very small players with not many physical lads but the ball skill, passing and movement was fantastic it was great to see. They lost to more a physical team, however i would be interested to see in the future how that club will develop and what i know that club they are improving at adult level as far as i can see.

Another point i dont get why there is only games every fortnight at underage level?, why is this? i know there hurling but that doesn't affect every juvenile in the county. Weekly games are needed for momentum and keep up interest.

StrandedinWW (Wicklow) - Posts: 20 - 07/03/2022 16:13:31    2404314

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Before i make my point, i commend any person who gives up their free time to coach underage teams and i am not on here criticising these individuals. Now to my point; i believe there is a correlation between the quality of club football and the county team. Afterall the best club footballers should by right be playing for the county team unless they opt not to. In the past Wicklow club were one of the favourites for the provincial club championship but in the last 20 year that record has been in decline across the various grade - check the record. There has to be a reason for this and based upon what i saw in the club championship, the overall standard of footballerin the county is inferior to the majority of other counties in Leinster and beyond. And the quality of player is inferior to the quality of player we produced in the past. For example, we have no out field player who is a reliable free taker since Tony Hannon retired almost a decade ago. We have struggled to develop players in certain positions especially in the forward division. To me this suggests that the methods clubs are using to produce players need to be looked at. I'm not saying it needs to be scrapped but it certainly needs some changing. It must be very difficult to sell playing for Wicklow when there are so many other sports and activities open to young people. The county teams are the shop window for this and the window doesn't look attractive presently."
Wicklowsupport, no need to apologise for your comments.

Anybody can coach underage teams, I have done my time also. Does not mean I was any good at it.

When the standard is not good, there is no need for players to push themselves.

Starts at county board level, works its way down.

Nobody seems to be asking the hard questions.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2897 - 07/03/2022 16:46:19    2404329

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Replying To StrandedinWW:  "First Time poster but have been reading this tread for a while now, so go easy. decided to jump in.
i believe there is plenty of talent in WW having came in and been travelling around with the young ones both in boys and girls. The question though is are underage players at club level being developed for the future senior teams ?or is it about win win win at all costs at underage level? this is where I believe development is falling down in clubs and perhaps kids walking away. One example I've seen most prominent is underage clubs around WW putting their tallest most physical player in at full forward and lumping the ball into him, lack of skill needed and theres no development of players around him. Those players will physically will be caught up with as they get older and therefore the clubs will suffer with lack of development. Plus the games isnt played like that anymore at adult level.

I was at a game last year and the club had very small players with not many physical lads but the ball skill, passing and movement was fantastic it was great to see. They lost to more a physical team, however i would be interested to see in the future how that club will develop and what i know that club they are improving at adult level as far as i can see.

Another point i dont get why there is only games every fortnight at underage level?, why is this? i know there hurling but that doesn't affect every juvenile in the county. Weekly games are needed for momentum and keep up interest."
Welcome to the forum StrandedinWW and don't worry, other posters on here are, in the main, respectful of other posters. I had thought that, particularly clubs in North and East of the county that I would be more familiar with, that club coaches were trying to encourage their entire panel of youngsters to get more involved with more inclusive and innotive coaching techniques, although some of the bigger-taller players tend to receive more of the ball. I think that many more retired players in the various clubs are getting involved than in former years with a better standard emerging. I do believe that the standard amongst our juveniles is slowly but surely improving but we could be up to maybe another 5 years plus before this shows at senior club and county level.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 994 - 07/03/2022 20:14:59    2404361

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Replying To Victorious87:  "So you're saying that the specific teams I mentioned didn't play a slow, lateral, low-risk game? Or are you just taking me making a specific example of teams who've had success playing that way and making it out as if I'm saying everyone should play a slow, lateral handpassing style of play? I think you're purposefully trying to misrepresent what I said for some reason?

I'm getting a bit tired of replying to these oversimplified comments like "Well there's a big population here but they don't win, so you're wrong". I'm sure you saw my posts where I pointed out that Naas CBS have developed a very strong culture of GAA thanks to some of the teachers who are also heavily involved in Naas GAA, it's not just that they have higher numbers, there are a variety of reasons they are stronger than the two West Wicklow schools I mentioned, one of them being the amount of pupils, it's not the only reason.

I'd say Gaelic football is behind hurling, rugby and soccer in Bray and it's definitely behind soccer in Arklow. Again they have big populations, it doesn't mean they're all football mad like they would be in say, Baltinglass.

But anyway, don't let my explanations get in the way of you're desire to have a pop at me by taking one of my points and offering some oversimplified counter argument."
Go back and read your posts you certainly did use population as reason that the likes of Naas are successful at club and school levels. But when it comes large towns in Wicklow you try to spin the age old excuse of soccer and rugby as reason for the lack of success in those largely populated areas. Change is badly needed at both Co Board and club level or we will remain as we always have since the Gaa was founded. Finally can I ask you what you think would happen in the likes of Bray and Greystones were under the umbrella of the Dublin Co Board.

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 541 - 08/03/2022 11:59:28    2404421

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Replying To dubarra:  "Go back and read your posts you certainly did use population as reason that the likes of Naas are successful at club and school levels. But when it comes large towns in Wicklow you try to spin the age old excuse of soccer and rugby as reason for the lack of success in those largely populated areas. Change is badly needed at both Co Board and club level or we will remain as we always have since the Gaa was founded. Finally can I ask you what you think would happen in the likes of Bray and Greystones were under the umbrella of the Dublin Co Board."
Again, if you read my posts properly you'll see I said population is a reason for success, not the reason. Naas Gaa were a bit of a laughing stock for the majority of the century, they've had a massive growth in population over the last decade so it's not like it makes no difference.

Honestly, if Bray and Greystones were under the Dublin county board I don't think either would be particularly successful clubs. They are more or less extensions of Dun Laoighre/Rathdown and Dublin 18, which is an area which is basically Rugby and Soccer over Gaelic Games. There's about a quarter of a million people living in that area and they have Cuala, Stars of Erin and Cabinteely GAA clubs as far as I know. Not exactly powerhouses of GAA. Cuala obviously only becoming an exception to that recently.

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 08/03/2022 13:55:41    2404459

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Replying To Victorious87:  "Again, if you read my posts properly you'll see I said population is a reason for success, not the reason. Naas Gaa were a bit of a laughing stock for the majority of the century, they've had a massive growth in population over the last decade so it's not like it makes no difference.

Honestly, if Bray and Greystones were under the Dublin county board I don't think either would be particularly successful clubs. They are more or less extensions of Dun Laoighre/Rathdown and Dublin 18, which is an area which is basically Rugby and Soccer over Gaelic Games. There's about a quarter of a million people living in that area and they have Cuala, Stars of Erin and Cabinteely GAA clubs as far as I know. Not exactly powerhouses of GAA. Cuala obviously only becoming an exception to that recently."
You are right population is only one contributor to a club\county being a success. Other contributing factors are structure, governance whic deals with discipline. We haven't done well with either of these. Games development is another. I think we have other people providing evidence of there being very few regular games at juvenile level which is a big issue as young people will go to other sports. Get these factors rights and you take advantage of population which is what Naas has done well and why they are going from strength to strength in both hurling and football which is no mean achievement. Also they think outside norms, for example, they put their underage hurling teams into the kilkenny league. By the way Wicklow have a bigger population than Mayo; Mayo are utilising the resources and interest within their county while we aren't. How else would you explain the difference in achievements by both counties throughout the history of the GAA.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 08/03/2022 16:13:43    2404497

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A lot of naysaying going on here. I actually think Wicklow have a chance of staying in Division 3 despite all that has gone on. The under 20 team got to a final today and I don't think the minor team have been beaten at all this year. Sometimes you have to take a step back before you can take two steps forward. Keep up the faith. Cill Mhantain Abú.

Dreamer (Wicklow) - Posts: 40 - 13/03/2022 08:18:58    2405100

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It was hard to watch that game today...very disjointed with players afraid to kick the ball. This was especially annoying given the amount of space Laois allowed in the middle third. Anyway we may have a chance of winning a game next year in div 4.

stringfellohawk (Wicklow) - Posts: 124 - 13/03/2022 16:12:48    2405157

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Today was a backward step. We have to beat Longford away and Louth at home to stay up. Difficult to see us achieving this based upon what we have done to date. Problems in a number of positions. Eight points won't win any game. I can't see how going back to division 4 is going to help football in the county but don't want to be seen as a naysayer. Will being relegated to division 4 be discussed at county board level? The county chairman said that the new management team have been working with the players to get the best out of a talented squad; do we have a talented squad? If so, why have we only won one league to date in last two years? Can't blame management as we are on our third different set of managment in that time.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 13/03/2022 16:31:59    2405167

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Just out of interest does anyone know of a midfielder in the county who can catch a high ball?

stringfellohawk (Wicklow) - Posts: 124 - 13/03/2022 17:21:05    2405195

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You seem to have an obsession with the county football team square Ball or whatever you call yourself these days. So senior football team has found there level and what about it you think the county board will discuss are you having a laught there. What should be discussed is far important is whats going on with county hurling team that's is not performing at the right level and that should be discussed. Footballer s are where they belong but hurlers are not and that's the problem for me.

Another problem is lack of games for juveniles and i said that before and that needs to be discussed before anything about county senior football.

GAA here and anywhere else is about more a lot more than thd county football team but all you seem to care about. I said it to you before participating and giving of your best is whats important. Win or lose after that is not important. We are not doing that at juvilnile and thats what worth discussing at county board. The county football team is one team I wouldnt be worrying to much about abc I dint county board should be either. Get the players especially young out playing garlic games and the county teams will take care of themselves.

More positive regarding participation was a great night by all accounts at county scor the other night and some great talent going forward to leinster semis next. We can hold our head high here higher than a lot of countys and shows more to GAA than county senior football.

I will be saying no more here. To much bs from keyboard warriers who just dont get GAA but think they do.

Pat Mustard (None) - Posts: 385 - 13/03/2022 17:33:15    2405201

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Replying To Pat Mustard:  "You seem to have an obsession with the county football team square Ball or whatever you call yourself these days. So senior football team has found there level and what about it you think the county board will discuss are you having a laught there. What should be discussed is far important is whats going on with county hurling team that's is not performing at the right level and that should be discussed. Footballer s are where they belong but hurlers are not and that's the problem for me.

Another problem is lack of games for juveniles and i said that before and that needs to be discussed before anything about county senior football.

GAA here and anywhere else is about more a lot more than thd county football team but all you seem to care about. I said it to you before participating and giving of your best is whats important. Win or lose after that is not important. We are not doing that at juvilnile and thats what worth discussing at county board. The county football team is one team I wouldnt be worrying to much about abc I dint county board should be either. Get the players especially young out playing garlic games and the county teams will take care of themselves.

More positive regarding participation was a great night by all accounts at county scor the other night and some great talent going forward to leinster semis next. We can hold our head high here higher than a lot of countys and shows more to GAA than county senior football.

I will be saying no more here. To much bs from keyboard warriers who just dont get GAA but think they do."
You having a go at me with a post like that. Firstly, i don't know what your reference to square is or what it has to do with anything. Also i would have thought football is worth discussing at county board level when you consider the state we are in at all levels. You talk about hurling. We can't get football coaching and structures right and you expect as a county we will organise and coach a much more difficult sport like hurling. You are joking right. I agree with you that there has to be more games at juvenile level; that is a given, doesn't need discussing. You seem to be suggesting the senior team doesn't matter, well how can you entice young people to aim to play at a high level if the county team lose 99% of its games over a two year period. They will be running to play other sports and who could blame them.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 13/03/2022 17:51:27    2405207

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "You having a go at me with a post like that. Firstly, i don't know what your reference to square is or what it has to do with anything. Also i would have thought football is worth discussing at county board level when you consider the state we are in at all levels. You talk about hurling. We can't get football coaching and structures right and you expect as a county we will organise and coach a much more difficult sport like hurling. You are joking right. I agree with you that there has to be more games at juvenile level; that is a given, doesn't need discussing. You seem to be suggesting the senior team doesn't matter, well how can you entice young people to aim to play at a high level if the county team lose 99% of its games over a two year period. They will be running to play other sports and who could blame them."
I have to agree with you there Wicklowsupport, in fact I think the County Board should just resign.

Wicklow GAA is on its knees, and by the time this season is over all of the county teams will be playing in the lowest divisions.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2897 - 14/03/2022 08:39:02    2405298

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Replying To stringfellohawk:  "Just out of interest does anyone know of a midfielder in the county who can catch a high ball?"
Blonde haired midfielder for Donard/Glen plucked ball out of the sky against Avondale last year that he'd no right to win at times which impressed me and stuck with me at the time - wasn't at the Kiltegan game before that but by all accounts he dominated there too. The art of fielding has definitely decreased in recent years, we probably haven't seen anyone lord it in the air since Stafford?
Kevin Feely (Kildare) who along with Thomas Galligan(Cavan) are the two best fielders of the ball in the country in my book. Galligan in the Sigurdson Cup was a joy to watch from kickouts alone.

footballlover (Wicklow) - Posts: 98 - 15/03/2022 08:58:38    2405479

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "You having a go at me with a post like that. Firstly, i don't know what your reference to square is or what it has to do with anything. Also i would have thought football is worth discussing at county board level when you consider the state we are in at all levels. You talk about hurling. We can't get football coaching and structures right and you expect as a county we will organise and coach a much more difficult sport like hurling. You are joking right. I agree with you that there has to be more games at juvenile level; that is a given, doesn't need discussing. You seem to be suggesting the senior team doesn't matter, well how can you entice young people to aim to play at a high level if the county team lose 99% of its games over a two year period. They will be running to play other sports and who could blame them."
We can take a few things from Mr Mustards post, Wicklowsupport. One is that he is still around and kicking. I was beginning to think that he had fallen off. Another is that he still thinks that you and I are alter egos, and seemingly have time to post under different names. The square ball just seems to be how he addresses some people, possibly those he doesn't agree with, so I wouldn't read anything into that. A big change is that he now suggests that the senior team is not the be all and end all of the GAA within the county. This is a major change from his previous strong opinions etc on county managers and how their teams were performing What I have to agree with him on is that there could never be enough competitions or games for juveniles and while winning is important, it is much more important that juveniles, whether in football or hurling get more games and coaching in the skills of the game. At some stage the importance of winning games, how to close out games when in front etc, has to be coached into them. Perhaps this is one aspect of coaching that we might be weak in.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 994 - 15/03/2022 11:39:25    2405512

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