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Carlow GAA thread

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It's been a very disappointing season and the future might look bleak with little sign of talent coming through, however its important to take stock of what potential we do have looking to next year for new management to enter the fray, so I took the liberty of volunteering for scouting duty:

Hopefully we can retain the current squad of players and bring in some of the below prospects who are currently capable of adding value:

**using my own rating index to evaluate players:

10 = Clifford, Conor Glass. Cluxton
9 = O'Callaghan, Shane Mcguigan, Sam Mulroy
8 = Peak Brendan Murphy, McBrearty, John Heslin
7 = High performing Carlow player
6 = Average performing Carlow player
5 = Carlow panelist
4 = High performing club player
3 = Average performing Club player
2 = intermediate standard player
1 = Junior standard player

Sean Bambrick Old Leighlin (7) Notable loss from this years squad, very consistent and experienced -expected back next year and still in his prime.

Fiachra Fitzpatrick MLR (7) thos man's football ability is no secret, currently a key player on Carlow hurling team would be a massive addition to the footballers.

Tadgh Roche Old Leighlin (6) plenty of potential and shown ability over the last number of seasons - surprising he hasn't been part of the county set-up.

Niall Roche Old Leighlin (6) Tadgh's older brother very tough operator and experienced full back for Old Leighlin would be a welcome addition given his physicality.

Brandon Kelly Rathvilly (6) Speedy forward with trademark playmaker ability, still u20 and unwilling to commit to the senior ranks this year - one for the future

Finbarr Kavanagh Palatine (6) was involved with senior panel last year and impressed, big physical player and still young - exactly what Carlow need

Robbie Kane Bagenalstown (6) Lively forward with plenty of potential has been a key performer in club championship in recent years.

Jonah Dunne Tinryland (6) After some impressive displays in last years Tailteann Cup for Carlow Dunne followed up with a solid season with his club, still young and would be a good addition next season.

Josh Egan Palatine (5.5) Another bright prospect for the future still u20 and already an important forward for Palatine.

Liam Brennan Leighlinbridge (5.5) Similar to Finbarr Kavanagh was part of last years squad - imposing midfielder and great under a highball.

Adam McCarron Eire Og (5) made the breakthrough to Eire Og starting 15 last year, trusted free taker with a good footballing brain.

Paddy Regan Tinryland (5) Another Tinryland player who was involved last year, saw limited game time but showed potential playing with his club.

Mark Mullen Tinryland (5) current u20 Carlow player with a big frame has shown potential for his club.

Any more in the mix?

Carlowrising (Carlow) - Posts: 127 - 10/04/2024 18:31:05    2537195

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Replying To carlowman:  "Looking at Leinster Gaa website I see Carlow CBS won the South Leinster Senior football title this year and beat Bunclody and Eniscorthy along the way in B.
I see.Presentation College had a decent running hurling.
This website tells a lot about the number of games that Carlow schools plays competitively in both hurling and football and the level also, for example there is C and D competitions.
The idea of hot housing students at 11 or 14 or 16 will not happen at secondary level. Parents will not stand for that!
Ask a teacher and they will tell you that they have enough on their plate to teach as it is. They will also tell you that it is very difficult to get students released from class due to all sorts of pressures for sports during term time.
As a parent I would not stand for my sons being hothoused for GAA games. I have sent my sons to a school to get a good education first and foremost and sport is totally secondary in my view.

The idea of taking the best from 4 schools in Carlow town and putting them into one team has been done on numeroua occasions in the past and has not worked. This has happened in both football and hurling in Carlow in recent years.

Taking kids at a young age and hothousing them and expecting them to be great players as a result of that has been shown not to work, or rather the percentage of those who make it all the way to Senior is miniscule.

Perhaps if someone has time they might look at the number of current players to see what number graduated from say colts to minor, and from minor to u 20 and then to Senior.
I think we would be.looking at remodelling what we do based on our research.
I agree that it is time for the net of ideas to be spread and for interested parties who can and will work on initiatives to be asked to come together for BOTH codes and not just football.
That would be the County Board being proactive.
Hurling is only barely hanging on too."
Someone said to me before that nearly all the current senior team had at some stage being involved with an underage team although someone else contradicted that and said there are plenty on the current panel who had no involvement, for me the important question is are the key players form each squad going forward to senior that's a mixed bag, the average around the country is two from each squad, so if we look at our 2021 17s just 3 of them are starting at 20s, now that would be 4 I assume if oisin doyle was fit, the likeyhood is two of them will go on and play senior and establish themselves.

There might be a case for starting development squads later, maybe 16 17 18 19 would make more sense. At those ages lads are making those lifestyle choices that decide whether your going to be a potential senior footballer. Currently we have foals at 13 then colts 14s and 15s and i don't think it has proven to be beneficial to us or to most others. By starting at 16 it gives you extra year to work on a minor team, you're also catching players Currently in form not a young lad who was good at 13 and has just hung around a panel for the next 4 years.

Would be no harm identifying why the combined schools didn't work and maybe seeing could it be tried again with a better set up, again I wouldn't be looking to do that at 1st/2nd year just junior and senior with the emphasis on a competitive senior A team.

For all our issues, I watched the closing stages of the Carlow minor championship last year and I was very impressed with how it was contested eire og st martins palatine grange tinryland rathvilly kildavin and fenagh all had good footballers and were well set up. I don't think it's all hopeless, but I don't think we are getting the most out of what we have either.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1589 - 10/04/2024 22:18:04    2537256

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Replying To carlowman:  "Looking at Leinster Gaa website I see Carlow CBS won the South Leinster Senior football title this year and beat Bunclody and Eniscorthy along the way in B.
I see.Presentation College had a decent running hurling.
This website tells a lot about the number of games that Carlow schools plays competitively in both hurling and football and the level also, for example there is C and D competitions.
The idea of hot housing students at 11 or 14 or 16 will not happen at secondary level. Parents will not stand for that!
Ask a teacher and they will tell you that they have enough on their plate to teach as it is. They will also tell you that it is very difficult to get students released from class due to all sorts of pressures for sports during term time.
As a parent I would not stand for my sons being hothoused for GAA games. I have sent my sons to a school to get a good education first and foremost and sport is totally secondary in my view.

The idea of taking the best from 4 schools in Carlow town and putting them into one team has been done on numeroua occasions in the past and has not worked. This has happened in both football and hurling in Carlow in recent years.

Taking kids at a young age and hothousing them and expecting them to be great players as a result of that has been shown not to work, or rather the percentage of those who make it all the way to Senior is miniscule.

Perhaps if someone has time they might look at the number of current players to see what number graduated from say colts to minor, and from minor to u 20 and then to Senior.
I think we would be.looking at remodelling what we do based on our research.
I agree that it is time for the net of ideas to be spread and for interested parties who can and will work on initiatives to be asked to come together for BOTH codes and not just football.
That would be the County Board being proactive.
Hurling is only barely hanging on too."
"As a parent I would not stand for my sons being hothoused for GAA games. I have sent my sons to a school to get a good education first and foremost and sport is totally secondary in my view.

Taking kids at a young age and hothousing them and expecting them to be great players as a result of that has been shown not to work, or rather the percentage of those who make it all the way to Senior is miniscule."

I just wanted to respond to these points from your response.

On the first point, of course education is the primary consideration for any parent looking at a secondary school for their child. Any scholarship model would need to take this into consideration & reflect this. Sport & education are not mutually exclusive, nor is this approach particularly new. Paul O'Connell got 6 A1's in his Leaving Cert whilst playing schools rugby for Ireland, for example. A scholarship program would need to address both aspects, providing an environment for the student to excel at both. To me, the offering would need to be along the lines of "we'll pick your son up at 7.30, drop him back at 6.30, by that stage he'll have had a full day in school, a football/gym session, supervised study & nutritious meal(s)." Sport is secondary, but GAA a distant secondary, (or even tertiary in some ) Carlow schools.

In relation to the number of players who make it through to senior. I don't think this proposal would increase the number of players who make it through to County Senior from schools level. By it's very nature, only a small % will ever make it through. What this proposal will do is engrain a culture of competing with the best outside of the county, & ensure when a county minor management team get together, they are not on the backfoot with a massive gap before they even start.

Finally, I'm not a teacher, & don't mean to disparage any of the work teachers who currently take GAA teams are doing. I also accept that the proposal is a bit on the extreme side, & the reality of getting a school principal to reserve a block of places in their school for GAA scholarship students isn't without controversy, & very difficult to realise. I only raise the proposal because I feel we need to do something extreme, or just continue to accept our fate in the basement of the football world

Smokeless Red (Carlow) - Posts: 13 - 11/04/2024 07:33:13    2537275

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Replying To Carlowrising:  "It's been a very disappointing season and the future might look bleak with little sign of talent coming through, however its important to take stock of what potential we do have looking to next year for new management to enter the fray, so I took the liberty of volunteering for scouting duty:

Hopefully we can retain the current squad of players and bring in some of the below prospects who are currently capable of adding value:

**using my own rating index to evaluate players:

10 = Clifford, Conor Glass. Cluxton
9 = O'Callaghan, Shane Mcguigan, Sam Mulroy
8 = Peak Brendan Murphy, McBrearty, John Heslin
7 = High performing Carlow player
6 = Average performing Carlow player
5 = Carlow panelist
4 = High performing club player
3 = Average performing Club player
2 = intermediate standard player
1 = Junior standard player

Sean Bambrick Old Leighlin (7) Notable loss from this years squad, very consistent and experienced -expected back next year and still in his prime.

Fiachra Fitzpatrick MLR (7) thos man's football ability is no secret, currently a key player on Carlow hurling team would be a massive addition to the footballers.

Tadgh Roche Old Leighlin (6) plenty of potential and shown ability over the last number of seasons - surprising he hasn't been part of the county set-up.

Niall Roche Old Leighlin (6) Tadgh's older brother very tough operator and experienced full back for Old Leighlin would be a welcome addition given his physicality.

Brandon Kelly Rathvilly (6) Speedy forward with trademark playmaker ability, still u20 and unwilling to commit to the senior ranks this year - one for the future

Finbarr Kavanagh Palatine (6) was involved with senior panel last year and impressed, big physical player and still young - exactly what Carlow need

Robbie Kane Bagenalstown (6) Lively forward with plenty of potential has been a key performer in club championship in recent years.

Jonah Dunne Tinryland (6) After some impressive displays in last years Tailteann Cup for Carlow Dunne followed up with a solid season with his club, still young and would be a good addition next season.

Josh Egan Palatine (5.5) Another bright prospect for the future still u20 and already an important forward for Palatine.

Liam Brennan Leighlinbridge (5.5) Similar to Finbarr Kavanagh was part of last years squad - imposing midfielder and great under a highball.

Adam McCarron Eire Og (5) made the breakthrough to Eire Og starting 15 last year, trusted free taker with a good footballing brain.

Paddy Regan Tinryland (5) Another Tinryland player who was involved last year, saw limited game time but showed potential playing with his club.

Mark Mullen Tinryland (5) current u20 Carlow player with a big frame has shown potential for his club.

Any more in the mix?"
If Carlow got the 30 best players in, they would be very competitive. When Turlough was involved, he got the best, simple as. There were no token gestures. The current management have rang players to ask for their opinion on lads in the club. CB/Management should check in with good lads who have left the panel and get the reasons, rather than a manager just letting them walk out the gate with no questions. Finbarr Kavanagh, Niall Roche, Robbie Kane, Jonah Dunne all gone off the panel. Who found out why and did everything to keep them on board?

CW88 (Carlow) - Posts: 20 - 11/04/2024 10:44:27    2537293

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Replying To Carlowrising:  "It's been a very disappointing season and the future might look bleak with little sign of talent coming through, however its important to take stock of what potential we do have looking to next year for new management to enter the fray, so I took the liberty of volunteering for scouting duty:

Hopefully we can retain the current squad of players and bring in some of the below prospects who are currently capable of adding value:

**using my own rating index to evaluate players:

10 = Clifford, Conor Glass. Cluxton
9 = O'Callaghan, Shane Mcguigan, Sam Mulroy
8 = Peak Brendan Murphy, McBrearty, John Heslin
7 = High performing Carlow player
6 = Average performing Carlow player
5 = Carlow panelist
4 = High performing club player
3 = Average performing Club player
2 = intermediate standard player
1 = Junior standard player

Sean Bambrick Old Leighlin (7) Notable loss from this years squad, very consistent and experienced -expected back next year and still in his prime.

Fiachra Fitzpatrick MLR (7) thos man's football ability is no secret, currently a key player on Carlow hurling team would be a massive addition to the footballers.

Tadgh Roche Old Leighlin (6) plenty of potential and shown ability over the last number of seasons - surprising he hasn't been part of the county set-up.

Niall Roche Old Leighlin (6) Tadgh's older brother very tough operator and experienced full back for Old Leighlin would be a welcome addition given his physicality.

Brandon Kelly Rathvilly (6) Speedy forward with trademark playmaker ability, still u20 and unwilling to commit to the senior ranks this year - one for the future

Finbarr Kavanagh Palatine (6) was involved with senior panel last year and impressed, big physical player and still young - exactly what Carlow need

Robbie Kane Bagenalstown (6) Lively forward with plenty of potential has been a key performer in club championship in recent years.

Jonah Dunne Tinryland (6) After some impressive displays in last years Tailteann Cup for Carlow Dunne followed up with a solid season with his club, still young and would be a good addition next season.

Josh Egan Palatine (5.5) Another bright prospect for the future still u20 and already an important forward for Palatine.

Liam Brennan Leighlinbridge (5.5) Similar to Finbarr Kavanagh was part of last years squad - imposing midfielder and great under a highball.

Adam McCarron Eire Og (5) made the breakthrough to Eire Og starting 15 last year, trusted free taker with a good footballing brain.

Paddy Regan Tinryland (5) Another Tinryland player who was involved last year, saw limited game time but showed potential playing with his club.

Mark Mullen Tinryland (5) current u20 Carlow player with a big frame has shown potential for his club.

Any more in the mix?"
Peak Brendan Murphy was a far better player than John Heslin.

At u21 level he completely controlled a game against Dublin which featured a number of subsequent All Ireland winners, including James McCarthy.

Peak Brendan was somewhere between 9 and 10.

Peak Paul Broderick was 8.

But again the problem in Carlow is we probably have had lots of players who could reach nine level if they were in a better environment.

How good would Mikey Bambrick be if he were in a better environment than Carlow?

How good could Sean Murphy have been if he'd been consistently and properly coached for football from his teenage years up?

Thomas Walshe, Mark Carpenter and Andrew Corden, for example, all would have made Dublin teams at their peak. Colm Hayden (albeit a very short peak), Paddy Quirke, Tommy Dwyer, Kevin Madden, Cyril Hughes, Willie Cullen if you go back far enough, etc.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 579 - 11/04/2024 11:41:50    2537304

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Replying To CARPS:  "Peak Brendan Murphy was a far better player than John Heslin.

At u21 level he completely controlled a game against Dublin which featured a number of subsequent All Ireland winners, including James McCarthy.

Peak Brendan was somewhere between 9 and 10.

Peak Paul Broderick was 8.

But again the problem in Carlow is we probably have had lots of players who could reach nine level if they were in a better environment.

How good would Mikey Bambrick be if he were in a better environment than Carlow?

How good could Sean Murphy have been if he'd been consistently and properly coached for football from his teenage years up?

Thomas Walshe, Mark Carpenter and Andrew Corden, for example, all would have made Dublin teams at their peak. Colm Hayden (albeit a very short peak), Paddy Quirke, Tommy Dwyer, Kevin Madden, Cyril Hughes, Willie Cullen if you go back far enough, etc."
1. Quality Coaching, Structure, Aspirations, Environment, Financial and Co Board support.
Those few ingredients would go along way towards being above average and seriously competitive.
As Tullow CS proved in the late 80's and early 90's when they were playing national football for serious silverware.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 11/04/2024 13:07:24    2537326

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The u20's put in a very decent performance the other night against Wexford & with a bit of luck could have won it. Wexford sealed it was a goal in almost the last play of the game. Light years away from the 23 point hammering our Seniors got from same opposition. Apparently our u20's were very competitive against Laois in the first game too & they have topped the group with 3 wins. The 2nd game against Wicklow was the only poor performance. Some little Ray of light after a terrible result & performance last Sunday

carlo (Carlow) - Posts: 211 - 11/04/2024 15:44:55    2537363

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Replying To carlo:  "The u20's put in a very decent performance the other night against Wexford & with a bit of luck could have won it. Wexford sealed it was a goal in almost the last play of the game. Light years away from the 23 point hammering our Seniors got from same opposition. Apparently our u20's were very competitive against Laois in the first game too & they have topped the group with 3 wins. The 2nd game against Wicklow was the only poor performance. Some little Ray of light after a terrible result & performance last Sunday"
It's a young 20s side, the key will be how many come back next year, we are kept away from the stronger sides in the group stages as far as I know, there are a few promising players on it but conceded 10 goals in 3 games against weaker opposition, I think they have offaly in the first round of the Andrew corden it will be interesting to see how they measure up.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1589 - 11/04/2024 16:52:39    2537374

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "Schools are a mess, knockbeg are laois with a few carlow lads, they have slipped too, nowhere near naas, the cbs has very little going on, very little preparation goes into their teams, I'd be very careful about throwing resources at schools unless you had full access to the school squads, what would be the point of say firing money at the cbs and half the team from graige or kileshin, now if the objective was to get the best carlow players from a few schools and enter the A then that might be something worth looking at but it has to be carlow players, there is no point doing it to benefit other counties. Strong schools are a by product of strong clubs not the other way around, and for me it has to start with improving our club footballers, I'd watch a fair bit of underage football and for me anyway the basic skills just aren't there, that comes down to coaching

If you look at how coach Education is set up, foundation cover very little on the basic skills of the game award 1 needs loads of improvement too you would like to see more done around how to coach the basic skills of the game kicking/catching, instead we are looking at the athletic aspects of the game a bit too much, very important but I think skills should always take precedent, how often do you see a club player kick the ball with the outside of the boot or deliver a long ball into the forwards, at local level in Carlow this is a rarity and we are inclined to coach it out of lads. Personally I'd like to see our 12s and 14s leagues put an emphasis on kicking 2 handpasses and the ball must be kicked, support the coaches too by running a few kicking workshops, as you move up the grades you should have players who have all the skills of the games which greatly enhances what you can do"
Sorry not to put resources into CBS because it's a risk ? Not well organised cbs this year won south Leinster b against the odds. They drew to portarligton to start the year then beat rathtangan from Kildare who had multiple Kildare minors and past Kildare minors on the team lost out to cbs portlaois but played very poor beat bunclody in the semi against all the odds and then beat enniscorthy went on to loose by 10 in the Leinster b semi final to Ashbourne while leading at 6 at half time. Their was 4 players from Laois on that team and the rest where from Carlow they where competitive even in the Carlow schools game while they lost to hacketstown in the B final because of lack of numbers with injures at the time they only lost one game in that competition that was to Knockbeg by 3 points beat all the rest. Pres have Carlow selectors in with them helping them and they are of no use to say not to put it into cbs is a joke a well known football school not saying pres shouldn't get any help every school should but it should be evened out equally between them

Carlowbushultra2021 (Carlow) - Posts: 2 - 12/04/2024 19:54:36    2537571

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Disappointing result for the minors is that all our championship football done for the year?

I hear the hurlers have a training weekend in Limerick this weekend hopefully it stands them in good stead, the county could badly do with a win.

Carlowrising (Carlow) - Posts: 127 - 13/04/2024 16:33:44    2537666

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St Mary's academy, CBS has of the order of 500 boys in the school, the largest boy's only school in the county.

Strong football catchment = good potential raw material.

Recent relative success in All Ireland and Leinster competitions. There are a few teachers on the staff there that have a football coaching background.

While there are Laois eligible players in the school, were this help bring on success and in turn improve standards for all players, in turn helping our county teams where is the downside? Knockbeg always has Carlow and Kildare eligible players out there, currently playing at a higher grade than any Carlow school team. Swings and roundabouts frankly… St Kieran's college team had Carlow and Laois lads on the panel this year, I didn't hear about a KK only policy there ….

Club or county is a conundrum, IMHO standards are uneven across the clubs, the merit of a school system is you could have access to better coaching and team preparation - call it hot housing or whatever you want - and while not going to win all round them each time, being competitive at a higher standard has to feed through to county teams. Currently we have lads on mediocre club and school teams - where is the improvement most likely to come from? Targeted and focused on a school where you have access to probably a fair share of the county pick. Spreading the jam too thinly is more of the same … no success, mediocrity, no winning ethos, … rinse and repeat… the story of Carlow GAA most of entire life.

A few grand would go a long way, a few bob to teacher / coaches to come in, some big name player to take a session or two, perhaps a training weekend with some other schools… I dunno but create a bit of a buzz around the thing for young lads. Some might recall we entered the minor footballers in the Ulster minor league years ago, shipped some beatings, but they went on to compete in the Leinster final …

Bainisteoir (National) - Posts: 539 - 13/04/2024 16:44:15    2537669

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Replying To Carlowrising:  "Disappointing result for the minors is that all our championship football done for the year?

I hear the hurlers have a training weekend in Limerick this weekend hopefully it stands them in good stead, the county could badly do with a win."
The minors now go into a B knockout competition, likely they won't win in that either as their group is the weaker one, I went down to the game today, disappointed for the players, some good lads on that team. Wicklow were a big physical team.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1589 - 13/04/2024 17:01:05    2537674

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Replying To Bainisteoir:  "St Mary's academy, CBS has of the order of 500 boys in the school, the largest boy's only school in the county.

Strong football catchment = good potential raw material.

Recent relative success in All Ireland and Leinster competitions. There are a few teachers on the staff there that have a football coaching background.

While there are Laois eligible players in the school, were this help bring on success and in turn improve standards for all players, in turn helping our county teams where is the downside? Knockbeg always has Carlow and Kildare eligible players out there, currently playing at a higher grade than any Carlow school team. Swings and roundabouts frankly… St Kieran's college team had Carlow and Laois lads on the panel this year, I didn't hear about a KK only policy there ….

Club or county is a conundrum, IMHO standards are uneven across the clubs, the merit of a school system is you could have access to better coaching and team preparation - call it hot housing or whatever you want - and while not going to win all round them each time, being competitive at a higher standard has to feed through to county teams. Currently we have lads on mediocre club and school teams - where is the improvement most likely to come from? Targeted and focused on a school where you have access to probably a fair share of the county pick. Spreading the jam too thinly is more of the same … no success, mediocrity, no winning ethos, … rinse and repeat… the story of Carlow GAA most of entire life.

A few grand would go a long way, a few bob to teacher / coaches to come in, some big name player to take a session or two, perhaps a training weekend with some other schools… I dunno but create a bit of a buzz around the thing for young lads. Some might recall we entered the minor footballers in the Ulster minor league years ago, shipped some beatings, but they went on to compete in the Leinster final …"
The cbs has probably 8 clubs feeding into it, has loads of coaches working there from all over carlow and laois you would imagine it should be playing A every year, it would be interesting to see how naas do it, and likewise head up to tyrone who are incredibly strong at schools I think 3 of the 4 semi finalists in ulster this year were tyrone, and had inter County managers.

I'd be happy enough to just compete at A, playing that better quality player every day, as you drop down the level of schools varies vastly.

You need gaa friendly leadership in schools too or even sport friendly will do that's not always the case.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1589 - 13/04/2024 17:08:33    2537676

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Replying To Carlowbushultra2021:  "Sorry not to put resources into CBS because it's a risk ? Not well organised cbs this year won south Leinster b against the odds. They drew to portarligton to start the year then beat rathtangan from Kildare who had multiple Kildare minors and past Kildare minors on the team lost out to cbs portlaois but played very poor beat bunclody in the semi against all the odds and then beat enniscorthy went on to loose by 10 in the Leinster b semi final to Ashbourne while leading at 6 at half time. Their was 4 players from Laois on that team and the rest where from Carlow they where competitive even in the Carlow schools game while they lost to hacketstown in the B final because of lack of numbers with injures at the time they only lost one game in that competition that was to Knockbeg by 3 points beat all the rest. Pres have Carlow selectors in with them helping them and they are of no use to say not to put it into cbs is a joke a well known football school not saying pres shouldn't get any help every school should but it should be evened out equally between them"
Not taking away from your achievement at all and well done any success is always welcome, I'm going to assume you were playing, so maybe you could give us some insight into what ye need to go from from B to A, it's easy for us to talk here but all we see is results we don't know the story behind them, it's notable you say against the odds a bit so that would indicate to me that your own set up could have been better, if you had a shopping list of what would have helped make that jump to the next level I'd be interested to read it.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1589 - 13/04/2024 17:12:45    2537677

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