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Carlow GAA thread

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Do we know it is lads won't commit to the manager, or simply there is a perfect storm of a combination of retirements, injuries, suspensions, lads with other commitments and college football that has reduced the pick of experienced players? If is the latter, we simply do not have the depth of players conditioned over a number of years for senior inter county football… is Carew being scapegoated for inherited structural weaknesses ? Some argued the previous manager was slow to bring new guys through… are we paying the price ? Some argued O'Brien played too defensive a style… maybe the more open style some looked for doesn't suit our players? Is there a mentality in Carlow that rather than dig in when things get tough folks are quick to point the finger and throw the towel in? I suppose when there is a very poor tradition of success it is easier to go that route.

I point these out as this is a complex question with no simple quick fix answer. There are a lot of talented young guys on the panel but to be fair to all is it a question of mission impossible this season given a clutch are,being brought thru too quick of necessity to plug holes rather than gradually introduced? I'm not sure there is a replacement out there for Carew at this stage. Externally whatever the rights and wrongs the impression will be of same old Carlow, infighting, bottlers etc ..

Anyway we are nit 23 points worse than Sligo, an unacceptable result

Bainisteoir (National) - Posts: 495 - 06/02/2022 17:51:30    2398622

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "A dark day again for the footballers, I can see this coming to a head fairly quickly"
Hopefully it will. It needs to. We're going nowhere but the road to weekly humiliation with this group of players and management. No offence or disrespect to either.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1328 - 06/02/2022 18:07:25    2398634

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Replying To Bainisteoir:  "Do we know it is lads won't commit to the manager, or simply there is a perfect storm of a combination of retirements, injuries, suspensions, lads with other commitments and college football that has reduced the pick of experienced players? If is the latter, we simply do not have the depth of players conditioned over a number of years for senior inter county football… is Carew being scapegoated for inherited structural weaknesses ? Some argued the previous manager was slow to bring new guys through… are we paying the price ? Some argued O'Brien played too defensive a style… maybe the more open style some looked for doesn't suit our players? Is there a mentality in Carlow that rather than dig in when things get tough folks are quick to point the finger and throw the towel in? I suppose when there is a very poor tradition of success it is easier to go that route.

I point these out as this is a complex question with no simple quick fix answer. There are a lot of talented young guys on the panel but to be fair to all is it a question of mission impossible this season given a clutch are,being brought thru too quick of necessity to plug holes rather than gradually introduced? I'm not sure there is a replacement out there for Carew at this stage. Externally whatever the rights and wrongs the impression will be of same old Carlow, infighting, bottlers etc ..

Anyway we are nit 23 points worse than Sligo, an unacceptable result"
To concede 28 scores in senior inter county football match is close to unheard of. And to do it in a league match where teams are supposed to be roughly the same standard. There are way too many guys playing who would not make a senior club in Carlow and who's only adult football experience is at junior level in Carlow. Totally I'll equipped for county football and they simply should never have been allowed on the bus. The county board needed to step in and say to Carew sorry if that the best team you can put out then you must step aside.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1328 - 06/02/2022 18:16:09    2398639

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Replying To Bainisteoir:  "Do we know it is lads won't commit to the manager, or simply there is a perfect storm of a combination of retirements, injuries, suspensions, lads with other commitments and college football that has reduced the pick of experienced players? If is the latter, we simply do not have the depth of players conditioned over a number of years for senior inter county football… is Carew being scapegoated for inherited structural weaknesses ? Some argued the previous manager was slow to bring new guys through… are we paying the price ? Some argued O'Brien played too defensive a style… maybe the more open style some looked for doesn't suit our players? Is there a mentality in Carlow that rather than dig in when things get tough folks are quick to point the finger and throw the towel in? I suppose when there is a very poor tradition of success it is easier to go that route.

I point these out as this is a complex question with no simple quick fix answer. There are a lot of talented young guys on the panel but to be fair to all is it a question of mission impossible this season given a clutch are,being brought thru too quick of necessity to plug holes rather than gradually introduced? I'm not sure there is a replacement out there for Carew at this stage. Externally whatever the rights and wrongs the impression will be of same old Carlow, infighting, bottlers etc ..

Anyway we are nit 23 points worse than Sligo, an unacceptable result"
I think the answers are just as complex, we seem to often crash in this county, in the past 15 years think of how many times we have said a new low, the end of rainbows reign, mid way through turloughs reign, bealins reign, taking out 17/18 when was the previous best year, maybe 2001? Or 04? But all too often improvements are usually followed by crashes. That would indicate a lack of planning, who's to blame? The clubs I would argue, most of them are living in the past, none as far as I'm aware have s&c programs for their young players, something which before a ball is kicked puts us at a huge disadvantage, I can think of intermediate clubs in neighbouring counties doing this for their under 13s, the county board is who most point the finger at but again who forms that, the clubs, there is something rotten at club level, a lack of ambition definitely, no future planning on player development, if you don't make one of the underage panels in Carlow you are at a serious disadvantage going into the future as our clubs are so poorly organised you won't get the development there, maybe the new gpos will sort out some of those issues within clubs but I'd predict that will be messy too. I think football needs a major restructuring within the county, but the clubs have to realise there is a problem before anything will improve, the county teams problems are not happening in isolation, they are the product of poor structures

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1356 - 06/02/2022 19:44:09    2398671

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Bainisteoir (National), your post stands out because you have touched on a combination of things that doesn't sit right with Carlow senior football, like retirements, lads with other commitments, college football that has reduced the pick of experienced players, not having the depth of players conditioned over a number of years for senior inter county football, You ask, Is there a mentality in Carlow that rather than dig in when things get tough folks are quick to point the finger and throw the towel in? I suppose when there is a very poor tradition of success it is easier to go that route, and you finished with this, I'm not sure there is a replacement out there for Carew at this stage. Externally whatever the rights and wrongs the impression will be of same old Carlow, infighting, bottlers etc

Personally I believe it would be very disrespectful to point the finger of blame at the players for any reason, neither can the finger of blame be pointed at the manager, every time the senior football team takes a nose dive a change of manager is demanded, two or three years later the cycle starts again with another new manager, and so on. I can't understand why people see that Carlow senior footballers have been in div.4 for years and years under a multitude of different managers, it's my believe that the answer lies somewhere in Bainisteoirs first paragraph. The Carlow county board are oblivious to what is happening in the world of gaelic football that Carlow competes with.. Lessons can be learned from counties like Longford and Leitrim and how they deal with the same issues / problems that we have, just look at their performance and results today, in particular that of Leitrim's.
The problems facing Carlow football are beyond repair, a restructure at least is needed, or reinvent it.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2596 - 06/02/2022 21:50:55    2398754

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Irish News today reporting that Down hurlers were called "Brits and Prods" throughout the game by Carlow players in yesterday's game. Really bad form if true. Why would Carlow players do that given the history of attacks on GAA players in the North?

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9490 - 07/02/2022 09:01:16    2398783

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "I think the answers are just as complex, we seem to often crash in this county, in the past 15 years think of how many times we have said a new low, the end of rainbows reign, mid way through turloughs reign, bealins reign, taking out 17/18 when was the previous best year, maybe 2001? Or 04? But all too often improvements are usually followed by crashes. That would indicate a lack of planning, who's to blame? The clubs I would argue, most of them are living in the past, none as far as I'm aware have s&c programs for their young players, something which before a ball is kicked puts us at a huge disadvantage, I can think of intermediate clubs in neighbouring counties doing this for their under 13s, the county board is who most point the finger at but again who forms that, the clubs, there is something rotten at club level, a lack of ambition definitely, no future planning on player development, if you don't make one of the underage panels in Carlow you are at a serious disadvantage going into the future as our clubs are so poorly organised you won't get the development there, maybe the new gpos will sort out some of those issues within clubs but I'd predict that will be messy too. I think football needs a major restructuring within the county, but the clubs have to realise there is a problem before anything will improve, the county teams problems are not happening in isolation, they are the product of poor structures"
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. Unless the clubs in the county produce top class players who are exposed to top class football week in week out then the county team will never be up to it. Good club scene equals good inter county team.

Roscommon are a good example- st Brigids dominated their championships from underage upwards putting in huge effort from underage upwards and training their club players and teams like intercounty teams. Everyone fell behind and had to change and did- now I know of junior clubs in Roscommon putting in as much effort as some inter county teams. And their club scene is brilliant now. Won Connacht senior and intermediate club champs this year. Their inter county team is flying.

A lot of Leitrim clubs go through the motions but that is changing and gathering pace thankfully. It will still take 10 years minimum to get the real benefit from this. Leitrim have always struggled for numbers and we used to play some underage games 13 a side to accommodate teams. This is now gone. For me this is a massive help. This was great to get kids games but players underage then get too used to space and freedom that they won't have against the Roscommon and mayo's we have to face. It's then they need to develop the skills to play under pressure and less space available. Is this the same in Carlow perhaps?

If the club scene is top notch each week players go out to play in then the county team inherit players that are already up to speed and take them a little bit more. Nobody can take players that have been going through the motions since underage and expect them to go beat players from another county who have been working on themselves and their game since a young lad. Leitrim have been getting players in to the county team that would be intermediate level in other counties at best, like I said that is changing but sheer numbers will always be against us.

The stronger counties don't have some secret recipe for success- what they have are clubs training guys from 4 years up and everything in place for them to succeed. Diet, S&C, coaching, effort and buy in from the players and competitive games every week.

I like Carlow- great people and I have visited dr Cullen park more than probably any other away ground down through the years in division 4, hopefully we can both progress upwards soon. All the best for the rest of the league, ye are better than this.

leitrim4sam (Leitrim) - Posts: 527 - 07/02/2022 11:33:25    2398846

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Irish News today reporting that Down hurlers were called "Brits and Prods" throughout the game by Carlow players in yesterday's game. Really bad form if true. Why would Carlow players do that given the history of attacks on GAA players in the North?"
If its true its disgraceful and shows a lack of understanding on the players part regarding
the struggle hurlers had up north over the years.

Its also stupid to call fellow Irishmen anything else.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1471 - 07/02/2022 12:11:57    2398867

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Irish News today reporting that Down hurlers were called "Brits and Prods" throughout the game by Carlow players in yesterday's game. Really bad form if true. Why would Carlow players do that given the history of attacks on GAA players in the North?"
Disappointing if it's true, the GAA at the highest level have a responsibility to investigate the incident starting with the Irish News, however something doesn't add up here, when Steven Poacher who is a county Down native came to Carlow he was made very welcome, throughout his time with the Carlow senior footballers he became something like an honorary Carlow man, and when he decided to leave the Carlow set up players and supporters were anything but happy, a bit of a contradiction if you ask me, like I say it has to be investigated with the findings made public, after all the accusation was made public, until it is it didn't happen.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2596 - 07/02/2022 12:15:02    2398868

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Irish News today reporting that Down hurlers were called "Brits and Prods" throughout the game by Carlow players in yesterday's game. Really bad form if true. Why would Carlow players do that given the history of attacks on GAA players in the North?"
Not the first time allegations like this have been levelled against the hurlers. If true, it's a pathetic attempt at sledging. No place for it, if turns out to be true, punishment needs to be severe. 12-18 month suspension for player involved, Large fine for the Co Board, possible points deduction.

Just when you thought the weekend couldn't get any worse...

TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 177 - 07/02/2022 12:29:17    2398877

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Replying To supersub15:  "Disappointing if it's true, the GAA at the highest level have a responsibility to investigate the incident starting with the Irish News, however something doesn't add up here, when Steven Poacher who is a county Down native came to Carlow he was made very welcome, throughout his time with the Carlow senior footballers he became something like an honorary Carlow man, and when he decided to leave the Carlow set up players and supporters were anything but happy, a bit of a contradiction if you ask me, like I say it has to be investigated with the findings made public, after all the accusation was made public, until it is it didn't happen."
The Down hurlers are a hardy and honest bunch. I can't see them making anything like that up. I know slagging goes on during games but that's just really offensive to the memory of Gaels in Ulster who were murdered solely because they were GAA members.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9490 - 07/02/2022 13:28:10    2398902

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Replying To TaosHum:  "Not the first time allegations like this have been levelled against the hurlers. If true, it's a pathetic attempt at sledging. No place for it, if turns out to be true, punishment needs to be severe. 12-18 month suspension for player involved, Large fine for the Co Board, possible points deduction.

Just when you thought the weekend couldn't get any worse..."
Taos, if it's true the players involved, who are undoubtedly young fellas, should be sat down and given a history lesson on the GAA across the island including the period in the North from 1968 onwards. They probably don't know what went on. I wouldn't throw out bans or fines just a dose of reality and the truth. It's not so much the slagging which goes on, it's the deep offense shown towards Gaels and GAA clubs in the North that were attacked for 30 years.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9490 - 07/02/2022 13:41:27    2398913

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "The Down hurlers are a hardy and honest bunch. I can't see them making anything like that up. I know slagging goes on during games but that's just really offensive to the memory of Gaels in Ulster who were murdered solely because they were GAA members."
Totally agree.

No place for it.

I lived up north during the troubles when hurls had to be hid in cars
on the way to training or matches.

Hope it can be a learning experience for anyone involved in this nonsense.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1471 - 07/02/2022 13:46:22    2398918

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "The Down hurlers are a hardy and honest bunch. I can't see them making anything like that up. I know slagging goes on during games but that's just really offensive to the memory of Gaels in Ulster who were murdered solely because they were GAA members."
Always the victims!!
Maybe your time would be better spent commenting on Antrims great performance yesterday.

Skippy2 (Carlow) - Posts: 42 - 07/02/2022 14:00:47    2398931

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Replying To TaosHum:  "Not the first time allegations like this have been levelled against the hurlers. If true, it's a pathetic attempt at sledging. No place for it, if turns out to be true, punishment needs to be severe. 12-18 month suspension for player involved, Large fine for the Co Board, possible points deduction.

Just when you thought the weekend couldn't get any worse..."
Unless it was overheard by officials on the pitch nothing can be done. 'he called me this, player then denies it' and the circle continues. The Down manager would not make something so serious up, so yes it did happen...but again nothing can happen unless heard by officials. Loose comments are a given and I imagine the player(s) would not say the same thing again in the carpark, I dont condone it however. I would hope the Carlow manager addresses it with the Down team and not turn a blind eye or pretend it didnt take place

CillTormoir (Galway) - Posts: 393 - 07/02/2022 14:00:49    2398932

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I would be very disappointed if this were true. I recently saw laochra gael with sambo mcnaughton from Antrim on it and it put into perspective some of what Ulster gaels had to endure just to play the game. I'd have great time for anyone playing and promoting the games up in ulster.

Unusedsub (Carlow) - Posts: 11 - 07/02/2022 14:21:50    2398943

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Taos, if it's true the players involved, who are undoubtedly young fellas, should be sat down and given a history lesson on the GAA across the island including the period in the North from 1968 onwards. They probably don't know what went on. I wouldn't throw out bans or fines just a dose of reality and the truth. It's not so much the slagging which goes on, it's the deep offense shown towards Gaels and GAA clubs in the North that were attacked for 30 years."
I'm still hoping the allegations are unfounded, but if the allegations are true then I don't think going easy on lads is the answer if you want to stamp it out. If the GAA are serious about ending this type of stuff, then they need to send a message it won't be tolerated.

Slagging and sledging doesn't bother me, it's harmless and means nothing calling someone a random insult, but this type of stuff is far too personal and close to home for some of the lads who have direct or indirectly experienced sectarian violence.

TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 177 - 07/02/2022 14:46:14    2398962

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Replying To Skippy2:  "Always the victims!!
Maybe your time would be better spent commenting on Antrims great performance yesterday."
Disgusting post. Shame on you.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9490 - 07/02/2022 14:55:25    2398968

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Replying To CillTormoir:  "Unless it was overheard by officials on the pitch nothing can be done. 'he called me this, player then denies it' and the circle continues. The Down manager would not make something so serious up, so yes it did happen...but again nothing can happen unless heard by officials. Loose comments are a given and I imagine the player(s) would not say the same thing again in the carpark, I dont condone it however. I would hope the Carlow manager addresses it with the Down team and not turn a blind eye or pretend it didnt take place"
You can see from the above post by Skippy2 the sheer ignorance and determination to cause deep offence still exists. It's quite sad actually.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9490 - 07/02/2022 14:58:26    2398969

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Replying To Skippy2:  "Always the victims!!
Maybe your time would be better spent commenting on Antrims great performance yesterday."
Stupid comment and not helpful.

Hurling was difficult to play during the troubles and we should be thankful to the brave people who kept it going.

It's not playing victim to point out sectarianism, part of the problem is ignoring it.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1471 - 07/02/2022 15:46:14    2398993

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