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Carlow GAA thread

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Replying To CARPS:  "The county board's main income is NOT gate receipts from local games. Thank God for that, or they'd be broke.

How many domestic games, in both codes, attract more than 2,500 paying spectators a year?

Having them level will screw Naomh Brid, Kildavin, Carlow Town and Burren Rangers in hurling. And is unfair on Naomh Eoin, MLR, Fenagh/Ballinkillen and Bagenalstown players.

It punishes dual players.

It will also kill the football revival in St Mullins.

Better if football clubs instead start hurling.

Like maybe Eire Og could get the ball rolling by entering a junior team next year?"
Palatine and eire og should be hurling. Both could easily dual. Asca o hanrahans setanta and cthc then could form a single club which would be very strong.you would end up with 3 strong hurling and football clubs in around the town

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1542 - 14/11/2023 11:17:09    2512911

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Replying To CARPS:  "Football brings in the money? Have you ever looked at the county board's accounts? Clearly not.

Did you ever think that if we continue the current system for a decade the two codes might level up?

Wouldn't that be great? Or you just want football to go back to the old dominance it had?

So shortsighted."
Have to agree with you ! Those advocating a return to 2 weeks of football and then 2 of hurling are entitled to their opinion but what is the REAL effect.of that ?
It's not an increase in the coffers.
That might be presented as something that needs to be considered. But the real effect would be a denigration of hurling.
How is that you might say?
Well, football clubs are overall stronger in the county, and managers of these teams have made no secret that they demand players full attendance at training practice matches etc and dual players have had to make a choice and more often than not hurling has suffered.
The current state of affairs has produced a renewed and successful hurling interest in Kildavin, a winning St Mullins football team, a senior hurling squad in Naomh Brid, Burren Rangers winning a Minor 'A' hurling title, and yet the strongest clubs in both codes have contested the county senior finals !!!
If one stands back and looks at it, surely we need to acknowledge the serious hard effort being put in especially by hurling clubs and recognise that the split season has now presented a chance of players playing bith codes. This has to be good for both codes and all.clubs.
We have lauded our GREAT dual heroes of the past, Johnny Nevin Paddy Quirke, Brendan Hayden and surely we should never deny a player of reaching those standards in the present era!

I believe the current split season should be retained and all should get behind it.
It presents more opportunities for clubs and more.importantly our dual players.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1806 - 14/11/2023 12:35:57    2512950

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "I'm just saying that in other counties where one sport is bigger that usually takes precedence, it appears we do the opposite, I'm lead to believe the reason we haven't made a decision on going back to even ages is that we are waiting to see what kilkenny does as our underage hurlers play there, if that's true its absolutely scandalous. Underage football fixtures get moved in Carlow to accommodate kilkenny underage hurling games I know that to be a fact again an absolute scandalous scenario, no matter what our fixtures should come first regardless of the code.

I agree with you that clubs in the North of the county should be hurling I think every club should dual, I think mlr have done fairly well under the old system so have bagenalstown, naomh eoin were always able to manage it. There could be potential damage to burren rangers and cthc if the old system returned, but that's down to them being stand alone clubs again. That could be solved"
Hurling is actually bigger in Carlow than football. The hurlers are ranked 10th in the country and play in the 'A' All-Ireland championship.

The footballers - who have improved a lot compared to where they were ten years ago - play in the B championship and are probably ranked somewhere from 24th-26th.

Hurling will bring in more revenue next year. It may also have had this year - not sure on that, don't know the exact Joe McD v Tailteann breakdown.

Football is more popular, yes.

But that's largely because the football clubs in the north of the county have made no effort to promote hurling.

There are three hurling clubs with three adult teams and it's the same in football, as AFAIK. So when hurling is given a chance, it can bring in the numbers.

What we need to do in Carlow is level them up. Every player (from age 5 to age 50) should have the right to play both codes.

And, yes, IMO, if we switch football to go first, the beneficiary will be soccer, not hurling. So best left as it is. For that, and many other reasons.

Agree with your post on other thread that Eire Og and Palatine should hurl. Nor sure about merging Blues, Asca, CTHC and Setanta together. Better to merge Blues and CTHC IMO and work from there.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 554 - 14/11/2023 13:15:53    2512966

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Replying To CARPS:  "Hurling is actually bigger in Carlow than football. The hurlers are ranked 10th in the country and play in the 'A' All-Ireland championship.

The footballers - who have improved a lot compared to where they were ten years ago - play in the B championship and are probably ranked somewhere from 24th-26th.

Hurling will bring in more revenue next year. It may also have had this year - not sure on that, don't know the exact Joe McD v Tailteann breakdown.

Football is more popular, yes.

But that's largely because the football clubs in the north of the county have made no effort to promote hurling.

There are three hurling clubs with three adult teams and it's the same in football, as AFAIK. So when hurling is given a chance, it can bring in the numbers.

What we need to do in Carlow is level them up. Every player (from age 5 to age 50) should have the right to play both codes.

And, yes, IMO, if we switch football to go first, the beneficiary will be soccer, not hurling. So best left as it is. For that, and many other reasons.

Agree with your post on other thread that Eire Og and Palatine should hurl. Nor sure about merging Blues, Asca, CTHC and Setanta together. Better to merge Blues and CTHC IMO and work from there."
Why would the beneficiary be soccer if football was played first?
Are there not soccer teams in the south of the county too? I'd guess more teams per capita than in football strongholds.

Repeat1944 (Carlow) - Posts: 4 - 14/11/2023 14:25:40    2512993

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Whatever about split seasons and all that but christ almighty why on earth is there still county finals being played in late November??

This weekend you have the under 20 Hurling Championship Finals. Not too long ago was the under 15s I believe. Rather than playing them on a nice summers day in the county grounds and giving young lads a real sense of occasion and big day out, our county board are making lads play out in the training center in Fenagh for god sake. Absolute madness.

Playing off county finals in the middle of winter with the smallest pool of teams in the entire country is absolutely ridiculous but hey we must be doing something right with all our success eh??!

EireOgAbu (Carlow) - Posts: 9 - 14/11/2023 14:32:51    2512999

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Replying To Repeat1944:  "Why would the beneficiary be soccer if football was played first?
Are there not soccer teams in the south of the county too? I'd guess more teams per capita than in football strongholds."
Oh God.

Because almost every serious hurler in the county plays football too. But most footballers do not play hurling.

Did I really have to explain that?

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 554 - 14/11/2023 15:25:23    2513010

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Replying To CARPS:  "Hurling is actually bigger in Carlow than football. The hurlers are ranked 10th in the country and play in the 'A' All-Ireland championship.

The footballers - who have improved a lot compared to where they were ten years ago - play in the B championship and are probably ranked somewhere from 24th-26th.

Hurling will bring in more revenue next year. It may also have had this year - not sure on that, don't know the exact Joe McD v Tailteann breakdown.

Football is more popular, yes.

But that's largely because the football clubs in the north of the county have made no effort to promote hurling.

There are three hurling clubs with three adult teams and it's the same in football, as AFAIK. So when hurling is given a chance, it can bring in the numbers.

What we need to do in Carlow is level them up. Every player (from age 5 to age 50) should have the right to play both codes.

And, yes, IMO, if we switch football to go first, the beneficiary will be soccer, not hurling. So best left as it is. For that, and many other reasons.

Agree with your post on other thread that Eire Og and Palatine should hurl. Nor sure about merging Blues, Asca, CTHC and Setanta together. Better to merge Blues and CTHC IMO and work from there."
Have to take into consideration the number of teams that take hurling seriously compared to football with them rankings

Collio (Carlow) - Posts: 24 - 14/11/2023 22:26:16    2513074

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Replying To CARPS:  "A mirage?

You are implying that the season is not split and we are all imagining it?

As for your point about " doing nothing to promote games"

Since it was introduced, St Mullins have gone from not playing football at all to winning three successive championships.

Meanwhile, hurling now has six senior clubs - it only had four a few years ago - Kildavin are back hurling and Carlow Town are in an under 20 final, following years of decline. Not to mention the individual improvement in Naomh Brid. Bagenalstown and the rise of Burren Rangers."
You know exactly what I meant so don't pretend. Your suggestion that lads should just pick up hurleys and all will be well is just trite. Our club footballers are playing for for 6 /7 weeks in spring. Then playing for 5 weeks in autumn with a 3 month gap in between. The 3 best months of the year. This is your idea of progress?? It's just bizarre and won't work.

Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 145 - 14/11/2023 23:08:34    2513079

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Replying To Overthebar53:  "You know exactly what I meant so don't pretend. Your suggestion that lads should just pick up hurleys and all will be well is just trite. Our club footballers are playing for for 6 /7 weeks in spring. Then playing for 5 weeks in autumn with a 3 month gap in between. The 3 best months of the year. This is your idea of progress?? It's just bizarre and won't work."
Many of those club footballers play hurling in the summer months.

The others are welcome to join them.

What you want to do is punish dual players.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 554 - 15/11/2023 10:11:47    2513090

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Replying To Collio:  "Have to take into consideration the number of teams that take hurling seriously compared to football with them rankings"
Yes. Great point. There's probably about 18-20 counties that take hurling seriously, and Carlow would be 10th-11th on that chart.

In football, there are 30 who take it seriously, and Carlow are between 24th and 27th, on last year's championship evidence.

So the hurlers rank higher by that metric too.

The last Carlow team to win a Leinster Senior Club was a hurling team, also the only to win Intermediate and Juniors were hurling teams.

Also, there are a number of hurlers who would make the football team, but I don't think the football team has anyone who would make the hurling fifteen at the moment? What players choose is very indicative of which code they think is more likely to yield success.

Anyway, this debate is a fool's folly.

We should want both teams to do well. And the current arrangements seem to be working.

Both the hurling and football county teams have improved in the last couple of years.

Hopefully, it will continue in 2024!

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 554 - 15/11/2023 10:19:59    2513093

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Replying To CARPS:  "Yes. Great point. There's probably about 18-20 counties that take hurling seriously, and Carlow would be 10th-11th on that chart.

In football, there are 30 who take it seriously, and Carlow are between 24th and 27th, on last year's championship evidence.

So the hurlers rank higher by that metric too.

The last Carlow team to win a Leinster Senior Club was a hurling team, also the only to win Intermediate and Juniors were hurling teams.

Also, there are a number of hurlers who would make the football team, but I don't think the football team has anyone who would make the hurling fifteen at the moment? What players choose is very indicative of which code they think is more likely to yield success.

Anyway, this debate is a fool's folly.

We should want both teams to do well. And the current arrangements seem to be working.

Both the hurling and football county teams have improved in the last couple of years.

Hopefully, it will continue in 2024!"
I think 18 to 20 is highly disputable, many of those counties are drawing from tiny playing pools while most counties are drawing from a large footballing playing pool so making conclusions from that is pointless.
Our footballing pool is probably 2 times larger than the hurling pool and we are giving hurling prime summer fixtures it's madness and nothing will convince me differently.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1542 - 15/11/2023 10:59:02    2513110

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Interested in getting peoples thoughts ahead of the 2024 campaign for our senior footballers...

Personally, I think we have more than enough to get out of division 4. The big thing as always with being such a small county will be the player buy in. Hopefully we can keep the same group as last year and all the key players + bring in a few new faces with the likes of John Murphy, Tadgh Roche, Paddy McDonnell, Liam Gavin and Oisin Doyle all impressing this year.

Darren Lunney needs to be brought back in as well, had a great year playing in the dublin senior football championship with Raheny.

Then you have the likes of Brendan & Sean Murphy, Horse Lawlor, Chris Blake & Eoghan Ruth who would really add to the squad if they came back.

EireOgAbu (Carlow) - Posts: 9 - 15/11/2023 12:59:01    2513158

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Replying To CARPS:  "Yes. Great point. There's probably about 18-20 counties that take hurling seriously, and Carlow would be 10th-11th on that chart.

In football, there are 30 who take it seriously, and Carlow are between 24th and 27th, on last year's championship evidence.

So the hurlers rank higher by that metric too.

The last Carlow team to win a Leinster Senior Club was a hurling team, also the only to win Intermediate and Juniors were hurling teams.

Also, there are a number of hurlers who would make the football team, but I don't think the football team has anyone who would make the hurling fifteen at the moment? What players choose is very indicative of which code they think is more likely to yield success.

Anyway, this debate is a fool's folly.

We should want both teams to do well. And the current arrangements seem to be working.

Both the hurling and football county teams have improved in the last couple of years.

Hopefully, it will continue in 2024!"
To say 18-20 counties take hurling seriously is laughable, I'm sure the players involved do, but county boards definitely do not, I'm not arguing that our hurlers are in a better place than the footballers but many of your points are invalid, such as the last intermediate Leinster winner being hurlers when it was our senior championship winners that won it. I saw Niall Hickey play hurling for Kildavin this year he would definitely be capable as well as Mikey Bambrick to play intercounty hurling and Aaron Amond as well who was previously involved with them

Collio (Carlow) - Posts: 24 - 15/11/2023 14:38:58    2513186

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Replying To Collio:  "To say 18-20 counties take hurling seriously is laughable, I'm sure the players involved do, but county boards definitely do not, I'm not arguing that our hurlers are in a better place than the footballers but many of your points are invalid, such as the last intermediate Leinster winner being hurlers when it was our senior championship winners that won it. I saw Niall Hickey play hurling for Kildavin this year he would definitely be capable as well as Mikey Bambrick to play intercounty hurling and Aaron Amond as well who was previously involved with them"
All the Liam McCarthy and Joe McDonagh counties take hurling seriously.

The reason I settled on 18-20 is that from the Christy Ring counties, it's fair to say Kildare, Wicklow and Derry take it seriously. Not sure about the rest.

In football, everyone takes it pretty seriously - except Waterford and Kilkenny.

But you could argue that the likes of Wexford, Tipperary and Limerick make it a bit of an afterthought. Even though they've done okay at times despite that. Same would apply to hurling in Kerry and, Derry.

As for your other point, Aaron Amond was unable to make the hurling starting team before he switched to football. Niall Hickey was playing junior club hurling - would be a massive step up to first 15 senior inter county.

We all know, however, that Conor Lawlor, for example, and Sean Murphy (if fit) would walk into the football team. Quite a few more too.

The fact St Mullins started football again three years ago - after years of not taking part at all - and won three successive championships tells you a lot about the respective standards.

It's not totally impossible that they could go onto win the Intermediate too, in couple of years, assuming the split season is retained.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 554 - 15/11/2023 19:18:13    2513235

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "I think 18 to 20 is highly disputable, many of those counties are drawing from tiny playing pools while most counties are drawing from a large footballing playing pool so making conclusions from that is pointless.
Our footballing pool is probably 2 times larger than the hurling pool and we are giving hurling prime summer fixtures it's madness and nothing will convince me differently."
Personally I.am fed up to the rafters with people in Carlow giving out about the current system of playing club games with hurling first and football second.
Underneath all of these people is the view that hurling really does NOT matter. Give us the BIG BALL and let us have it our way.
I really am fed up with the view that we are a football county and we are not being given a fair cracki. I will put it a different way... football has no time for hurling.
That is the way it is in the NORTH of the county.
Hurling is seen as secondary and hurlers who play football have never ever in the last 40 years.been allowed to give 50 percent of their tome to the small ball.
If you or anyone else on this forum thinks otherwise, then you have no sense of what football clubs have been doing for many many years ie pushing players to pick one sport and inevitably due to the prominence of football, hurling has been hammered over the last 40 years in the NORTH of the county. That is the reality of it.
So so many footballers have not respected hurling in this county.
It maddens.me that under the guise if ... oh let's give football 2 weeks and hiking the next 2 etc,

Hurling has blossomed under the present system if playing hurling first and football second and letsnleavenit as it is.
As for those who complain about juvenile football games being changed due to Kilkenny leagues, I am delighted. to hear that. At long last hurling is getting the prominence it deserves and if we want hurling to improve then let us continue to develop this relationship with Kilkenny hurling clubs.
But football people really do find it very difficult to accept that hurling is here in Carlow!

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1806 - 15/11/2023 19:36:54    2513240

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Replying To EireOgAbu:  "Interested in getting peoples thoughts ahead of the 2024 campaign for our senior footballers...

Personally, I think we have more than enough to get out of division 4. The big thing as always with being such a small county will be the player buy in. Hopefully we can keep the same group as last year and all the key players + bring in a few new faces with the likes of John Murphy, Tadgh Roche, Paddy McDonnell, Liam Gavin and Oisin Doyle all impressing this year.

Darren Lunney needs to be brought back in as well, had a great year playing in the dublin senior football championship with Raheny.

Then you have the likes of Brendan & Sean Murphy, Horse Lawlor, Chris Blake & Eoghan Ruth who would really add to the squad if they came back."
All of those you names would be welcome additions, as for the veterns returning I wouldn't hold out much hope there. We haven't condended for promotion in 5 years I'm not sure we will this coming season either, there was signs in the TC that we may be getting a bit of progress but last year was similar which leads you to think that many teams don't take the TC serious, I think this management's main job could be to bring through the younger talent that is there, the likes of John phiri Liam gavin josh Brady brian mcmahon lads like that there are others too, we have a couple of good young keepers coming through, Ben mccarron and Aaron power, there is plenty of talent around and the county 20s is probably the place for them it might be an idea of one of the senior management had the 20s job for continuity, I don't see any short term gains we are looking at 5 years +

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1542 - 15/11/2023 21:21:13    2513250

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Replying To CARPS:  "Yes. Great point. There's probably about 18-20 counties that take hurling seriously, and Carlow would be 10th-11th on that chart.

In football, there are 30 who take it seriously, and Carlow are between 24th and 27th, on last year's championship evidence.

So the hurlers rank higher by that metric too.

The last Carlow team to win a Leinster Senior Club was a hurling team, also the only to win Intermediate and Juniors were hurling teams.

Also, there are a number of hurlers who would make the football team, but I don't think the football team has anyone who would make the hurling fifteen at the moment? What players choose is very indicative of which code they think is more likely to yield success.

Anyway, this debate is a fool's folly.

We should want both teams to do well. And the current arrangements seem to be working.

Both the hurling and football county teams have improved in the last couple of years.

Hopefully, it will continue in 2024!"
Care to list these 18 (min) counties that take hurling seriously. Good luck with that. Tops I'd say 15 and the chasm between Limerick and the 15th is unbridgeable imo. Same can't be said for football. I personally prefer hurling to football but that doesn't mean that I'm oblivious to the peril football is in and it has been exacerbated by this new format. I'd give it another year before they realise their mistake. Well that's what I pray for anyway

Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 145 - 16/11/2023 00:10:19    2513268

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "I think 18 to 20 is highly disputable, many of those counties are drawing from tiny playing pools while most counties are drawing from a large footballing playing pool so making conclusions from that is pointless.
Our footballing pool is probably 2 times larger than the hurling pool and we are giving hurling prime summer fixtures it's madness and nothing will convince me differently."
So, the argument for going back to 2 weeks on/off is, even though we know it seriously hurts dual clubs and hurling within the county, football is more important so it needs to be prioritized? There can be no other alternatives or solutions to the issue, just 2 weeks on/off, that's it?

The 3 month break is not ideal and it needs to be looked at, but it's not making lads walk away from the game or not commit. Football is and will always be strong in the county, regardless of a 3 month break or not. Hurling won't be, if you go back to 2 weeks on/off. If you don't care about hurling and would happily see it diminish at the expense of football, fair enough,

TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 234 - 16/11/2023 11:20:42    2513312

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "All of those you names would be welcome additions, as for the veterns returning I wouldn't hold out much hope there. We haven't condended for promotion in 5 years I'm not sure we will this coming season either, there was signs in the TC that we may be getting a bit of progress but last year was similar which leads you to think that many teams don't take the TC serious, I think this management's main job could be to bring through the younger talent that is there, the likes of John phiri Liam gavin josh Brady brian mcmahon lads like that there are others too, we have a couple of good young keepers coming through, Ben mccarron and Aaron power, there is plenty of talent around and the county 20s is probably the place for them it might be an idea of one of the senior management had the 20s job for continuity, I don't see any short term gains we are looking at 5 years +"
We have a great group there at the moment. A few of the younger guys will only improve once they are introduced to the set up but we definitely have more than enough to go up or at least competitively challenge in the league for promotion.

And that has to be the aim. Carlow Footballers need to get out of division 4.

I think Niall Carew is a decent manager but if we are not competitive in the league this year then its time to look for a better man to take the job again.

The likes of Hulton, Dunphy, 2 Clarkes, Josh Moore, Conor Doyle, Buggy, Dara Curran, Crowley, Morrissey etc are all playing at their peak and at a prime age (24/25/26 years old).

Hopefully we have a lot to look forward to in 2024 because there really is a solid group there and you just need a good management team behind them + consistent performance.

EireOgAbu (Carlow) - Posts: 9 - 16/11/2023 11:50:56    2513319

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Replying To TaosHum:  "So, the argument for going back to 2 weeks on/off is, even though we know it seriously hurts dual clubs and hurling within the county, football is more important so it needs to be prioritized? There can be no other alternatives or solutions to the issue, just 2 weeks on/off, that's it?

The 3 month break is not ideal and it needs to be looked at, but it's not making lads walk away from the game or not commit. Football is and will always be strong in the county, regardless of a 3 month break or not. Hurling won't be, if you go back to 2 weeks on/off. If you don't care about hurling and would happily see it diminish at the expense of football, fair enough,"
Football is our main sport of the two so it definitely should get priority, if a way of removing the 3 month gap can be worked without changing the current system then I'd be all for it. Maybe the Football clubs need to have a Sit down and arrange some competition between them or the league runs into the summer but I can't see the current situation being tenable long term, Football needs to grow too, Burren rangers were coming anyway so this new system is not responsible for the growth of hurling there and kildavin clonegal always had hurlers. Mlr won a leinster title under the old system, and St mullins made a final? At the very least rotate who goes first

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1542 - 16/11/2023 12:33:13    2513333

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