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After reading all your posts I can see how jealous you're of Eire Óg. Calling them cowardly for not fielding a hurling team? Carlow town hurling club and setanta would have to disband if they did that and I'm sure you'd be giving out about them then too. The truth is they are the best run club in the county by a mile, to even think tinryland had a chance of beating them Sunday is laughable. You're obviously a blues man envious of their success and the blues downfall, if you want to give out about something look closer to home and the structure their. carlow football is already very underachieving without eire Óg it would have nothing, so before criticizing them about everything think about where the county would be without them and their players that have led the carlow team for the last 20 plus years.
Collio (Carlow) - Posts: 31 - 03/10/2023 10:32:51 2506749 Link 1 |
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Most posters here put their club bias aside with the view to try improve the current structure of Carlow GAA, we are a small enough county as it is without minimising our resources through giant clubs hoovering up talent in our most populous town from other clubs for the sake of having one 'super club' that doesn't even facilitate hurling. Eire Og are a big fish in a small pond, they are very well organised, a huge addition to Carlow footballers and a great amenity to local community. They are almost like a mini county team with the sheer volume of club members, a conveyor belt of underage talent (to a level one club alone can't cater for, increasing player drop-off rate) and quite clearly aren't on a level playing field to competing clubs. Take a look at any of our standard dual clubs, lets say at u20 level considering the current state of play at senior won't change overnight. An average dual player at this stage has roughly 1000 hours of hurling & 1000 hours of football coaching over the last 15 years assuming they train/play 3 times a week give or take, maybe 500 hours of rugby/soccer/other also. A single code player by comparison has 2000 hours of training in the one sport possibly with additional hours playing rugby/soccer too. Now consider a club who only encourages football and have far and away the largest pick in the county, with the best facilities, funding, management structure etc, who field 3+ teams at all age groups of players solely concentrated on football. It allows them to pick and choose the best talent from a huge batch without having to hang their hat on harnessing and developing a few prospects like a smaller club. The overall landscape is so uneven I genuinely fear that over the next 5+ years dual clubs will begin to become disincentivized with entertaining both codes and everyone will lose then, should we be reduced to a county with hurling in the south and football in the north it will divide the second smallest county in half. While we are on the topic, instead of blankly saying players can't play both codes at intercounty, it would be some shame to never see the likes of Fiachra Fitzpatrick, Donagh Murphy and Jack McCullagh and future players to never play for the county football team. Surly an agreement could be arranged that these players feature in 1/2 O'Byrne cup games and 2/3 league games if selected and to let them be involved in both. One hurling & one football session a week, personally I think it's more doable than what is perceived. Carlowrising (Carlow) - Posts: 137 - 03/10/2023 13:00:43 2506784 Link 0 |
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Funding? Eire Óg are in nearly a million debt. They're the only club that represents this county well and they get nothing but criticism, comes across very badly.
Collio (Carlow) - Posts: 31 - 03/10/2023 13:32:33 2506792 Link 0 |
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The truth may hurt sometimes, fortunately there is a ready made solution, lead by example to smaller non duel clubs in the county by rolling out hurling accross all age groups in Eire Og in 2024 going forward. Let CTCH, Setanta, Asca and O'Hanrahans organise with county board as their task is far more complicated.
Carlowrising (Carlow) - Posts: 137 - 03/10/2023 15:18:27 2506814 Link 0 |
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So the eo kids that are dual players leave CT and setanta. And given your view on how eo attract footballers based on their size and success, would you not expect that they would absolutely wipe out the two existing hurling clubs? And you do realise all the underage coaches in eo are volunteers with the majority never having played hurling? There not paid coaches with the time and skills to just recreate a whole new club essentially I think your view of eo is a symbol of whats wrong in the town. Looking outward rather for someone to blame rather than looking inwards for solutions Eo have led by example in football. Pal and tinryland not too far behind. Carlow1970 (Carlow) - Posts: 12 - 03/10/2023 16:35:06 2506828 Link 0 |
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Yes that's the idea of a dual club, for a club like Eire Og it really is as simple as deciding to Cator for hurling, it's clearly a sensitive issue for you with defensive attitude claiming to be ill equipped when the like of St Mullins and MLR can facilitate football, they don't whinge because they haven't got 'football' coaches, most clubs regardless of sport at underage just have parents who volunteer to coach, as far as minor and senior level I'm sure Brendan Hayden or Sean Gannon might know a thing or two about hurling. The reality is nobody in EO gives a toss about hurling and are happy to continue winning football titles when the odds are heavily stacked in their favour. In short it's a club of glory hunters. The least they could do with their resources is contribute to the struggling hurling numbers like most of the much smaller clubs in the county. From the outside looking in, CTHC would be better off without those underage EO players because the past 20 years have shown 95% of them don't graduate to senior, instead they might find more players who persevere with hurling and football if they wish. Carlowrising (Carlow) - Posts: 137 - 03/10/2023 17:44:47 2506836 Link 0 |
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Hi Collio, it's great so see Eire Og's PR on Hoganstand. Firstly, I am not a "blues man." My club is a dual club. So that should narrow it down for you. I am not jealous of Eire Og. I just think Eire Og's dominance is stifling Carlow football. 27,000 people live in the town. 35,000 live in the rest of the county. Those 35,000 have 14 senior and intermediate football clubs. The 27,000 in the town have two. Both Eire Og. Clearly something is wrong. If you look down the road at Kilkenny (which is now smaller than Carlow), they have three strong senior hurling clubs. Clearly this benefits their county team. I would like the same for Carlow. And it'd be great if Eire Og still keep winning SFC's... but maybe not every second one, as they have for the past 60 years. It'd also be nice if they continue to win MFC's, just maybe not 70% of them, as they have done since 1997. As for your assertion that "carlow football is already very underachieving without eire Óg it would have nothing." There is no doubt Eire Og make a huge contribution to Carlow county teams. But let's look at some stats. This year the county senior panel had eight players from Carlow town - all Eire Og - out of 35. So, the town supplied 22% of the squad. But it it home to 43% of the county. Do you see the point? In hurling, there was not a single player from Carlow Town (the CTHC clubman is from Palatine). So that's 0% from 43%. My issue is not with Eire Og, it's with how their dominance is stifling the other clubs in the town. Tbh, I could not care if all town clubs were disbanded and we created four new DUAL ones, with EQUAL SIZED, SET catchment areas - let's say Eire Og-Asca, Carlow Parish Blues, Green Road and Carlow-Graigue. What I want to see is Carlow GAA maximizing its reach in Carlow town. We need it. I have asked this question twice before: Eire Og have won three Minor A championships in a row*. How many of these players were involved last Sunday? Reality is they aren't able to bring them through because the first team is overloaded with county players and/or previous winners of minors. Thus, many of them are just falling by the wayside. That's why we need a better spread of talent. Get it? Any other club would be fast-tracking players like that. The average Carlow football club has a catchment of 2,000 people. Eire Og has 27,000. Clearly that's a huge imbalance. CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 652 - 03/10/2023 19:27:02 2506853 Link 0 |
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a) Eire Og used this debt to build facilities that put them away ahead of both Asca and O'Hanrahan's; It would be easy for them to have similar infrastructure if they also didn't bother to pay for it. But, oddly, neither of the other two were able to access credit like Eire Og was. Asca don't even have a club house or a pitch of their own! b) You say, "they're the only club that represents this county well." Have you never heard of Mount Leinster Rangers? Leinster IHC and SHC winners. Indeed, the most recent Carlow club to win the Leinster Club SFC wasn't Eire Og... it was O'Hanrahan's. If anything, Eire Og are underachieving, given their huge resources and unrestrained pick. CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 652 - 03/10/2023 19:30:56 2506854 Link 0 |
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The Eire Og kids who are dual players will leave CTHC by minor level anyway, if they are any good, because Teach Asca will push them to do so. There are dozens of such examples over the years. It would be better if Eire Og just hurled themselves. The club's pride in itself would push for success. And they'd soon enough challenge MLR and St Mullins, IMO. The existing hurling clubs have failed and they will be no loss. It would be better if they merged with O'Hanrahan's and Asca. We have a split season now. There is no actual need for separate football and hurling clubs (as Bagenalstown are successfully proving). Personally, I would also let Ballinabranna withdraw from Naomh Brid and go back hurling as a dual club. And I think the two Leighlin clubs should look at merging to form one dual code entity. Fenagh and Ballinkillen could formally merge also, and Rathvilly, Tinryland, Clonmore, Grange etc should look at hurling. Even if the standard is poor, it's still worth pursuing. Give kids a chance to hurl. On the flipside, St Mullins should do more to encourage juvenile football. They are a great club. What they've done in adult football has been great. CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 652 - 03/10/2023 19:38:34 2506856 Link 0 |
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Attendance was down a bit on last year ? supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2956 - 04/10/2023 08:55:06 2506883 Link 0 |
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"I'm going to assume you're not involved at your club presently or you would realise this." - Wrong, I am very much involved in my club. "if you want to maximise participation in Carlow town asca and o hanrahans need to come together, they could create a very competitive club between them and would give kids that viable option to join. Look at how st martins have progressed in their short existence, they have just qualified for their second minor A final in a row which is a brilliant achievement" - You're totally missing the point here, with respect. The issue is not to force Asca and the Blues to come together. It's to stop one club hoarding players and sucking up everyone. Once again, the town has 27,000 people; the rest of the county has 35,000. There are 3 juvenile clubs in the town (ie. they should have a catchment of around 9,000 each). That would still be many times more than the 14 'rural' juvenile football teams have (an average of 2,500 each). You presently have a crazy situation where one club has unfettered access to 27,000 people and their rivals, on average, only have less than 10% of that pool. Btw, in Kerry, both Tralee and Killarney have fewer people than Carlow. Tralee has four football clubs and Killarney has five! Tralee has set catchment areas. I know for a fact because I used to do a lot of work there. They don't just let Austin Stacks hoover everyone up. As for St Martin's, they have the opposite problem to Asca and O'Hanrahan's. They are 3 clubs who came together to form an area team, because they don't have the numbers. Asca and O'Hanrahan's have plenty of numbers around them, they just can't get clear access to them because of a more attractive option which is not being regulated and is allowed to suck everyone in. At present, they can't compete with what Eire Og can offer, that's why they need support - in the form of catchment - to close the gap. CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 652 - 04/10/2023 08:57:28 2506884 Link 0 |
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No I'm not missing the point i see what you're saying and in theory there isn't much wrong with it but in practice it wouldn't work, take the two clubs you are referring to asca and o hanrahans, two very small clubs I think by any definable measure that's true, this also means the human resources available is small, if in the morning both had the player base of eire og and pal they would not be equipped to handle the numbers, I know this to be true. Now that's not to say that given time they could build those resources but that's why you need a gentler approach to all this. Yes there is an issue with participation in the town, I have done school links in the past and it was my experience that up to half might be playing no sport, some will only play soccer or rugby and then you have less than half playing gaa +soccer/rugby, and you have 7 or even 8 clubs drawing from that, the picture you paint looks a bit different at the coal face, and you could turn around and say Bishop foleys will be o hanrahans but if that's kids dad played with eire og you couldn't expect the son to not, that's not really the gaa way is it. BTW I do think eire ogs size makes it very hard for the other clubs but the goal should be to emulate it not look to restrict it. So what's in that half that play no sport or just soccer or rugby or some other sport, we have a lot of first generation irish in that, and the few of them that do play gaa usually end up with asca or o hanrahans, because they aim to recruit them, I know the team I was with at one stage had up to 8 different nationalities on it, all irish kids but parents from various countries in Africa Eastern Europe and as far away as Nepal, it can be hard for those parents to understand the culture of the gaa and maybe more could be done there to integrate and show them our great organisation, but again that's something for the gaa to do and maybe some financial supports could be put in place maybe some gpos paid fully by leinster Council could be sent to asca and o hanrahans and even cthc and setanta to try raise participation in general, I think this is a wider gaa issue too in our urban areas, and it would be money well spent by the gaa. Its an incredible financial burden for a small club to fund one of these gpos. Or amalgamation where we can get two strong town clubs and get a town rivalry going again, as it stands next year the only town rivalry will be asca and o hanrahans at junior next year, not good enough in my opinion, two strong town clubs would invigorate football in Carlow town and who knows what would grow out of that. The status quo isn't tenable long term Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1625 - 04/10/2023 11:10:16 2506903 Link 0 |
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Any idea when Carlow GAA plan to decide on new championship structure for 2024? TrueBlue95 (Dublin) - Posts: 9 - 04/10/2023 13:34:15 2506931 Link 0 |
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First Carps I agree Carlow Town needs strong clubs bar Eo and would love to see it But with repect its factually incorrect to say Eo have unfettered access to the whole town Blues and askea have access. Pal and tinryland take players from the town. Maybe a good idea to actually offically allow these clubs have the town as their catchment areas? Thats 5 clubs Pal won a senior last year and field i think 2 other adult teams. Tinryland contested last 2 finals and have at least one if not two other adult teams. Both have good numbers underage and have had for a no of years The blues situation is not down to anything eo have done. Its of their own making. You haven't responded to my question on why pal and tinryland have players passing by the gates of the blues to play football? Why parents who played for the blues have their kids in other clubs( and not just eo) and why their best player joined grauigecullen? On splitting the town, how for example, could you force the residents of new oak estate, to play for just one of eo or blues. Both clubs best teams had a number of players from this one estate. If its that easy sure the best thing to do is remap every town and county in ireland so the population is split evenly. Carlow can have a bit of klidare laois and wexford Thats a mad notion but no madder than your sugesstion. You cant rip up history and force people to switch clubs And to be honest your disparaging remarks about Eo for not having hurling teams shows that you have a massive chip about Eo. Carlow town are growing numbers every year and rome wasnt built in a day. Setanta and themselves if they joined up would be well along the way of bringing hurling in the town towards where it needs to be Carlow1970 (Carlow) - Posts: 12 - 04/10/2023 17:26:04 2506962 Link 0 |
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The third most successful club in Leinster club football is underachieving? And to answer your question there was 4 lads involved from the minor team that won 3 in a row. In the intermediate semi final 11 of starting 15 were under 21 so they are clearly doing something right. You're obviously just jealous of their success
Collio (Carlow) - Posts: 31 - 04/10/2023 17:27:00 2506963 Link 0 |
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Congratulations to Burren rangers a brilliant minor A title win today Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1625 - 07/10/2023 23:23:00 2507306 Link 0 |
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Sincere congrats to Burren rangers H&C club on winning the Carlow MHC for the 1st. time. A fantastic achievement for such a young club. Hope it's the start of many more successes for them. Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 227 - 08/10/2023 01:20:39 2507310 Link 0 |
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Hear , hear well done to all involved- heady days for hurling along the southern N80 area - Burren Rangers show what can be achieved, this follows the reformed Kildavin Clonegal side lifting the junior title a few weeks ago. Great to see the spread of competitive clubs expand a bit.
Bainisteoir (National) - Posts: 545 - 08/10/2023 21:56:54 2507442 Link 0 |
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Maybe kildavin jumped the gun starting adult hurling, Burren rangers could challenge for senior titles in the coming years but kildavin will take back their juveniles which will weaken Burren, think kildavin had 4 on the Burren rangers team Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1625 - 08/10/2023 22:17:31 2507444 Link 0 |
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Maybe kildavin jumped the gun starting adult hurling, Burren rangers could challenge for senior titles in the coming years but kildavin will take back their juveniles which will weaken Burren, think kildavin had 4 on the Burren rangers team Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1625 - 08/10/2023 22:35:07 2507447 Link 0 |