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Hard to se Wire Og wining after yesterday. That match in the conditions will certainly take their toll
Rathvilly without Brendan Murphy were a little rudderless and relied heavily on Conor Doyle and Ed Finnegan.
Eire Og were typical, had about 50/50 possession and then suddenly had possession and with a foul and the result was struck beautifully despatched to yhe net by McCarton.
Rathvilly did have plenty of.possession but did not use it very well except for Josh Moore and Conor Doyle with both scoring good points.

Eire Og were not giving in and ET proved that thee was nothing between the sides.
Penalties decided it.
Tinryland look to be a more seasoned team than Eire Og and Mullen seems to be their only injury worry.
Eire ig have injury woes with Gannon and Mark Furey doubtful looking at yesterday's match
I hope that both play with a little more abandon than yesterday's turgid games.
Most people would love a high scoring and high tempo game but it's unlikely that we will get sort of entertainment unfortunately.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1806 - 25/09/2023 20:19:39    2505714

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1st game last Sunday was frustrating to watch at times. Bagenalstown inability to take 2 clear goal chances cost them dearly.
Tinryland defence play is very effective even if not pretty to watch, I hope it doesn't spoil the County final as a spectacle for us neutrals.
Broderick is in very good form picking off some nice points and his freetaking can the be the match winner.
2nd game more exciting but hard to judge the quality of both teams as the weather was atrocious.
Eire Og came back well but had 3 players injured ....2 in first 10 mins....could afferct them for Sunday. Rathvilly had a 3.1 lead on penalties and should have put it to bed but a couple of bad penalties cost them.
Keeper Furey made some good saves and brady was very calm in slotting home the winner. Impressive for a teenager.
So I predict a dogged fight on Sunday. Won't be pretty but because of Tinryland systematic defence play I'll give them the nod in a low scoring game.

Tinryland 0-10
E Og 0.8

novalis (Carlow) - Posts: 312 - 26/09/2023 13:10:52    2505818

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No many expecting much of s spectacle from Sunday! Hopefully it won't be worse than 2018!

TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 234 - 26/09/2023 13:42:46    2505838

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And that's a wrap for 2023
Congratulations to eire og clonmore St mullins and asca.

Start with the senior, boy did I get this wrong, I thought tinryland might sneak it, but it would appear the county final was last week and there is a bit of a gap between eire og rathvilly and the rest, finals tend to have a dynamic of their own and I felt eire og got so much right today they never allowed tinryland settle on the ball. They turned over some great ball on their own 45 right through the game. Hard on tinryland and my commiserations to them, they have some fine footballers, I feel they need to tweak their game a bit. Very tough losing two in a row but I'm sure when it settles down they will realise they can come again.

Clonmore had a super win over tullow, oisin doyle was on fire, what a brilliant footballer can't wait to see him at senior next year, he is box office. Tullow seemed a bit one dimensional and I think another year at this grade might give some of their younger players that time to develop. Clonmore are really mobile have improved from last year and have good young players coming through every year now a great double for them yesterday with their ladies team winning the intermediate and I expect both teams to contest in the latter stages of senior next year.

St mullins had a big win at junior. I thought the cocks might have enough here but mullins strangled them out of it. The cocks couldn't get the ball up the field to get the scores. Mullins are decent if a little lacking in some of the skills but fully committed and strong in the middle. I think the cocks will gain promotion over the coming years though they have some very nice footballers coming through from St martins.

Finally asca won a very entertaining curtain raiser today, the game ebbed and flowed. Asca were just about the better side. With John phirri putting in a very good display and just a little more balanced over all. Liam Ryan was excellent for eire og keeping them in the game largely on his own.

Just the minor championship to go now with semi finals on tomorrow.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1542 - 01/10/2023 18:42:07    2506486

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "And that's a wrap for 2023
Congratulations to eire og clonmore St mullins and asca.

Start with the senior, boy did I get this wrong, I thought tinryland might sneak it, but it would appear the county final was last week and there is a bit of a gap between eire og rathvilly and the rest, finals tend to have a dynamic of their own and I felt eire og got so much right today they never allowed tinryland settle on the ball. They turned over some great ball on their own 45 right through the game. Hard on tinryland and my commiserations to them, they have some fine footballers, I feel they need to tweak their game a bit. Very tough losing two in a row but I'm sure when it settles down they will realise they can come again.

Clonmore had a super win over tullow, oisin doyle was on fire, what a brilliant footballer can't wait to see him at senior next year, he is box office. Tullow seemed a bit one dimensional and I think another year at this grade might give some of their younger players that time to develop. Clonmore are really mobile have improved from last year and have good young players coming through every year now a great double for them yesterday with their ladies team winning the intermediate and I expect both teams to contest in the latter stages of senior next year.

St mullins had a big win at junior. I thought the cocks might have enough here but mullins strangled them out of it. The cocks couldn't get the ball up the field to get the scores. Mullins are decent if a little lacking in some of the skills but fully committed and strong in the middle. I think the cocks will gain promotion over the coming years though they have some very nice footballers coming through from St martins.

Finally asca won a very entertaining curtain raiser today, the game ebbed and flowed. Asca were just about the better side. With John phirri putting in a very good display and just a little more balanced over all. Liam Ryan was excellent for eire og keeping them in the game largely on his own.

Just the minor championship to go now with semi finals on tomorrow."
The county board should mass produce videos of today's game and market them as a cure for insomnia.

On the other hand, it means Eire Og have now won 31 of the last 64 Carlow championships.

Half the titles, which makes sense when they have the pick of half the county's population. Demographic doping.

As posted over the summer, we need a better spread of players in the town. Eire Og's dominance is very, very unhealthy for Carlow football.

Well done to Asca, Clonmore and St Mullin's. The latter's elevation to Intermediate, after years if not playing football at all, is proof that the split season is worth retaining.

What's needed next is for football clubs to take hurling seriously during the other window. Looking at you Palatine, Kildavin and Tullow. And at Eire Og and O'Hanrahan's players in the town.

Personally, I think CTHC and Setanta should be merged into Eire Og and O'Hanrahan's (or maybe even Asca). It would be better for hurling in the town. Current system is not working. CTHC lost all their games (to senior club's second teams) in the IHC, this year.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 554 - 01/10/2023 19:56:22    2506498

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Replying To CARPS:  "The county board should mass produce videos of today's game and market them as a cure for insomnia.

On the other hand, it means Eire Og have now won 31 of the last 64 Carlow championships.

Half the titles, which makes sense when they have the pick of half the county's population. Demographic doping.

As posted over the summer, we need a better spread of players in the town. Eire Og's dominance is very, very unhealthy for Carlow football.

Well done to Asca, Clonmore and St Mullin's. The latter's elevation to Intermediate, after years if not playing football at all, is proof that the split season is worth retaining.

What's needed next is for football clubs to take hurling seriously during the other window. Looking at you Palatine, Kildavin and Tullow. And at Eire Og and O'Hanrahan's players in the town.

Personally, I think CTHC and Setanta should be merged into Eire Og and O'Hanrahan's (or maybe even Asca). It would be better for hurling in the town. Current system is not working. CTHC lost all their games (to senior club's second teams) in the IHC, this year."
I think that's the a great suggestion to encourage Eire Og to roll out hurling teams at all age groups. It would be great if O'Hanrahans and Asca could do the same but for now they should continue as CTHC, but Eire Og could make the transition seemlesly and it would do wonders for Carlow hurling in the medium to longer term

Carlowrising (Carlow) - Posts: 111 - 01/10/2023 23:47:46    2506532

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Replying To CARPS:  "The county board should mass produce videos of today's game and market them as a cure for insomnia.

On the other hand, it means Eire Og have now won 31 of the last 64 Carlow championships.

Half the titles, which makes sense when they have the pick of half the county's population. Demographic doping.

As posted over the summer, we need a better spread of players in the town. Eire Og's dominance is very, very unhealthy for Carlow football.

Well done to Asca, Clonmore and St Mullin's. The latter's elevation to Intermediate, after years if not playing football at all, is proof that the split season is worth retaining.

What's needed next is for football clubs to take hurling seriously during the other window. Looking at you Palatine, Kildavin and Tullow. And at Eire Og and O'Hanrahan's players in the town.

Personally, I think CTHC and Setanta should be merged into Eire Og and O'Hanrahan's (or maybe even Asca). It would be better for hurling in the town. Current system is not working. CTHC lost all their games (to senior club's second teams) in the IHC, this year."
Blues and askea have same catchment area in the town as EO. Its a complete nonsense to try and designate the town into different areas for different clubs,sure there is a history in all towns with two clubs or more of having neighbours, family members and siblings divided between clubs. Part of the beauty of the gaa. And as to trying to link what school you go to to a club. Absolute madness.
Stop criticising Eo for being well run and structured. Pal and tinryland take players from the town also. Both have good numbers underage The focus should be on what the blues and askea have got so wrong that they are falling so far behind nearly every other club in the county.
Tullow and bagnelstown aren't producing the amount of footballers they should be either. Is that Eos fault too?
Also today Tinryland never had a hope of winning with that brand of football and they have the players to actually try and play football so hopefully they will look at changing tactics next season. Its actually maddening to look at teams setting up like that.
Eo and rathvilly miles clear with Rathvilly very unlucky to lose brendan murphy. Probably cost them a championship. Another club that are well run and are always competitive.
Numbers help but its people in the clubs and structures that make winning teams.
I dont know how askea and more so the blues, with their tradition and history, are where they are. There are even traditional blues families bringing kids elsewhere.
Your focus is on weakening Eo which would be no benefit to the county and to be honest they were winning championships when they hadnt the massive underage set up. They have tradition and organisation and are reaping the benefits of being progressive and hard working.
Id love to see the blues and tullow getting their act together. Bagnelstown hopefully will keep improving
I think it would be beneficial for some clubs to amalgamate but the clubs im thinking of probably don't want too

Carlow1970 (Carlow) - Posts: 12 - 01/10/2023 23:55:44    2506533

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "And that's a wrap for 2023
Congratulations to eire og clonmore St mullins and asca.

Start with the senior, boy did I get this wrong, I thought tinryland might sneak it, but it would appear the county final was last week and there is a bit of a gap between eire og rathvilly and the rest, finals tend to have a dynamic of their own and I felt eire og got so much right today they never allowed tinryland settle on the ball. They turned over some great ball on their own 45 right through the game. Hard on tinryland and my commiserations to them, they have some fine footballers, I feel they need to tweak their game a bit. Very tough losing two in a row but I'm sure when it settles down they will realise they can come again.

Clonmore had a super win over tullow, oisin doyle was on fire, what a brilliant footballer can't wait to see him at senior next year, he is box office. Tullow seemed a bit one dimensional and I think another year at this grade might give some of their younger players that time to develop. Clonmore are really mobile have improved from last year and have good young players coming through every year now a great double for them yesterday with their ladies team winning the intermediate and I expect both teams to contest in the latter stages of senior next year.

St mullins had a big win at junior. I thought the cocks might have enough here but mullins strangled them out of it. The cocks couldn't get the ball up the field to get the scores. Mullins are decent if a little lacking in some of the skills but fully committed and strong in the middle. I think the cocks will gain promotion over the coming years though they have some very nice footballers coming through from St martins.

Finally asca won a very entertaining curtain raiser today, the game ebbed and flowed. Asca were just about the better side. With John phirri putting in a very good display and just a little more balanced over all. Liam Ryan was excellent for eire og keeping them in the game largely on his own.

Just the minor championship to go now with semi finals on tomorrow."
On today's game, the best team clearly won, conditions definitely favoured EO and it would be nice to see them get a good run in Leinster now.

It's difficult not think that if Brendan Murphy was fit to play the Semi Final we probably would have been looking at a Rathvilly v Tinryland final today.

Tinryland had no plan B once they fell behind by 4-5 pts. They could potentially reach another final next year with the same tactics etc but I'm not sure its dynamic enough to take them all the way.

Paul Broderick was always going to be key today and even though he wasn't in the game as much as Tinryland would have liked, I would highlight that EO having Shane Buggy back today with the job of marking Paul Broderick was a huge boost and should not be understated.

Ross Dunphy will go down as player of the year for most.

Carlowrising (Carlow) - Posts: 111 - 02/10/2023 00:00:16    2506534

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Replying To Carlowrising:  "I think that's the a great suggestion to encourage Eire Og to roll out hurling teams at all age groups. It would be great if O'Hanrahans and Asca could do the same but for now they should continue as CTHC, but Eire Og could make the transition seemlesly and it would do wonders for Carlow hurling in the medium to longer term"
There is absolutely nothing stopping Eire Og from rolling out hurling next year, at all grades.

They have the facilities, and enough hurling-related people already to organize coaching.

Reality is, whatever Eire Og could manage could not be any worse than the current set up. And it would avoid them having two idle months in summer for their adult members.

Carlow Town could then work with O'Hanrahan's and Asca, perhaps, With maybe a view towards merging with the Blues, in the long term, if they ever get their act together again. That will mean giving them space to develop, and a proper catchment base. Without Eire Og poaching their best juvenile players, for example.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 554 - 02/10/2023 10:11:12    2506557

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Replying To Carlow1970:  "Blues and askea have same catchment area in the town as EO. Its a complete nonsense to try and designate the town into different areas for different clubs,sure there is a history in all towns with two clubs or more of having neighbours, family members and siblings divided between clubs. Part of the beauty of the gaa. And as to trying to link what school you go to to a club. Absolute madness.
Stop criticising Eo for being well run and structured. Pal and tinryland take players from the town also. Both have good numbers underage The focus should be on what the blues and askea have got so wrong that they are falling so far behind nearly every other club in the county.
Tullow and bagnelstown aren't producing the amount of footballers they should be either. Is that Eos fault too?
Also today Tinryland never had a hope of winning with that brand of football and they have the players to actually try and play football so hopefully they will look at changing tactics next season. Its actually maddening to look at teams setting up like that.
Eo and rathvilly miles clear with Rathvilly very unlucky to lose brendan murphy. Probably cost them a championship. Another club that are well run and are always competitive.
Numbers help but its people in the clubs and structures that make winning teams.
I dont know how askea and more so the blues, with their tradition and history, are where they are. There are even traditional blues families bringing kids elsewhere.
Your focus is on weakening Eo which would be no benefit to the county and to be honest they were winning championships when they hadnt the massive underage set up. They have tradition and organisation and are reaping the benefits of being progressive and hard working.
Id love to see the blues and tullow getting their act together. Bagnelstown hopefully will keep improving
I think it would be beneficial for some clubs to amalgamate but the clubs im thinking of probably don't want too"
Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Without realizing it.

"Blues and askea have same catchment area in the town as EO."

This is precisely the problem. Basic human nature (in any sphere) dictates that the strongest entity will always succeed - to the detriment of its competitors - in an unregulated market. There are thousands of books about this. The current Carlow town model is based on 'trickle down' - this just amplifies inequality, as you can see in global economics.

I have no skin in this game of local rivalries. I don't live in the town. But I do want the best for Carlow GAA.

Obvious case in point. Eire Og have won three Minor A championships in a row*. How many of these players were involved yesterday?

They aren't able to bring them through because the first team is overloaded with county players and/or previous winners of minors.

So what happens? Most of these quality footballers will just get disillusioned and quit the game, or just do the bare minimum at junior.

Now imagine if Asca or O'Hanrahan's had these players? They'd be swept straight into the first team. And that would increase the pool for the county, and make local championships more competitive.

It's not rocket science.

(*incidentally they have 18 of the last 28 titles, I think)

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 554 - 02/10/2023 10:24:42    2506563

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Fair play to Eire Og, that was a great win for them yesterday. I did not think they have that level of performance in them, based on what I had seen previously to date. Really took it to Tinryland in the second half, they began running at Tinryland and when EO were able to break the line, Tinryland were in serious trouble. Ross Dunphy has really gone to another level this year, he's the best forward in the county at this point and deserves player of the year. Darragh O'Brien's free taking has also really improved this season,

Tinryland couldn't afford to be at less than 50% shot conversion, They needed to be up at 75%. That will be the big disappointment for them, along with their struggles from the kickout.

Tinryland don't have a plan B because they just don't have the players. When they were forced to open up, they looked far more vulnerable and EO really could have exploited it more. They've overachieved to get to two county finals, last year now seems was their opportunity to win a county title. It's an aging team and their best players are all 30 plus, with very little coming through. I wouldn't be surprised to see them intermediate in 5 years.

TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 234 - 02/10/2023 10:56:24    2506571

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Replying To Carlow1970:  "Blues and askea have same catchment area in the town as EO. Its a complete nonsense to try and designate the town into different areas for different clubs,sure there is a history in all towns with two clubs or more of having neighbours, family members and siblings divided between clubs. Part of the beauty of the gaa. And as to trying to link what school you go to to a club. Absolute madness.
Stop criticising Eo for being well run and structured. Pal and tinryland take players from the town also. Both have good numbers underage The focus should be on what the blues and askea have got so wrong that they are falling so far behind nearly every other club in the county.
Tullow and bagnelstown aren't producing the amount of footballers they should be either. Is that Eos fault too?
Also today Tinryland never had a hope of winning with that brand of football and they have the players to actually try and play football so hopefully they will look at changing tactics next season. Its actually maddening to look at teams setting up like that.
Eo and rathvilly miles clear with Rathvilly very unlucky to lose brendan murphy. Probably cost them a championship. Another club that are well run and are always competitive.
Numbers help but its people in the clubs and structures that make winning teams.
I dont know how askea and more so the blues, with their tradition and history, are where they are. There are even traditional blues families bringing kids elsewhere.
Your focus is on weakening Eo which would be no benefit to the county and to be honest they were winning championships when they hadnt the massive underage set up. They have tradition and organisation and are reaping the benefits of being progressive and hard working.
Id love to see the blues and tullow getting their act together. Bagnelstown hopefully will keep improving
I think it would be beneficial for some clubs to amalgamate but the clubs im thinking of probably don't want too"
Eire Og is well organized and structured l, however it is almost cowardly and a display of gross negligence that they do not field hurling teams at any level. With the largest numbers and catchment area by far in the county they should do far more to promote Hurling. It is no surprise that Eire Og, Rathvilly and Palatine have dominated senior football in recent years when they solely Concentra on football. Borris, Bagenalstown, Leighlin, Myshall, Ballinkillin and more recently St. Mullins and Kildavin make a genuine effort at both codes from underage all the way up.

What's stopping Rathvilly and Tinryland fielding championship intermediate or junior teams at adult level, and at underage for the betterment of the future of Carlow GAA. But Eire Og is a no-brainer they have far too many numbers underage to not encourage both codes.

Carlowrising (Carlow) - Posts: 111 - 02/10/2023 11:22:51    2506582

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Replying To CARPS:  "Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Without realizing it.

"Blues and askea have same catchment area in the town as EO."

This is precisely the problem. Basic human nature (in any sphere) dictates that the strongest entity will always succeed - to the detriment of its competitors - in an unregulated market. There are thousands of books about this. The current Carlow town model is based on 'trickle down' - this just amplifies inequality, as you can see in global economics.

I have no skin in this game of local rivalries. I don't live in the town. But I do want the best for Carlow GAA.

Obvious case in point. Eire Og have won three Minor A championships in a row*. How many of these players were involved yesterday?

They aren't able to bring them through because the first team is overloaded with county players and/or previous winners of minors.

So what happens? Most of these quality footballers will just get disillusioned and quit the game, or just do the bare minimum at junior.

Now imagine if Asca or O'Hanrahan's had these players? They'd be swept straight into the first team. And that would increase the pool for the county, and make local championships more competitive.

It's not rocket science.

(*incidentally they have 18 of the last 28 titles, I think)"
The sutuation in the town is that parents dont see the blues as a viable alternative. The blues have slowly disintegrated for reasons i dont understand. Its over simplistic to say that its the pull of eo. If the blues had their house in order they would have plenty of kids up there. Traditional family loyalties in the gaa are a cornerstone of the clubs
The blues had a few years where the had very good underage success that transitioned to an excellent senior team and won a leinster. Even then the signs underage were worrying.
The tradition and history of the blues within the town where they have huge number of traditional blues families should of ensured that they had numbers but even they are going elsewhere
Pal and tinryland have large numbers leaving the town from parents who didnt want to go to eo but still dont see the blues or askea as the alternative.
The aim should be to raise the standards in other clubs not punish a club who is progressive and producing players for the county consistently
Tullow has no trickle down effect and is another underage wasteland
It comes down to structures and people

Carlow1970 (Carlow) - Posts: 12 - 02/10/2023 12:07:59    2506593

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Replying To Carlowrising:  "Eire Og is well organized and structured l, however it is almost cowardly and a display of gross negligence that they do not field hurling teams at any level. With the largest numbers and catchment area by far in the county they should do far more to promote Hurling. It is no surprise that Eire Og, Rathvilly and Palatine have dominated senior football in recent years when they solely Concentra on football. Borris, Bagenalstown, Leighlin, Myshall, Ballinkillin and more recently St. Mullins and Kildavin make a genuine effort at both codes from underage all the way up.

What's stopping Rathvilly and Tinryland fielding championship intermediate or junior teams at adult level, and at underage for the betterment of the future of Carlow GAA. But Eire Og is a no-brainer they have far too many numbers underage to not encourage both codes."
Eo was set up as a football club. Be great if they were dual with their resources but they are not
Carlow town has wonderful facilities and have gotten their act together after years of mismanagement which led to the club falling to its knees much like the blues now.
An internal row has led to a second club in the town.
I think the simple solution is setanta to go back in with carlow town. If they combined their underage panels and coaches they would have a great set up. Only ones going to lose out with the split in resources are the kids that want to hurl. They join up at minor and i think under 15 anyway with setanta having no adult team
After that maybe visit the football clubs to try and promote and entice the kids to try hurling
Its wrong to be calling eo cowardly because you want them to sort out hurling in the town that has two hurling clubs.
Surely the county boards are the ones who are in place to manage these things

Carlow1970 (Carlow) - Posts: 12 - 02/10/2023 12:42:33    2506606

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Replying To Carlow1970:  "The sutuation in the town is that parents dont see the blues as a viable alternative. The blues have slowly disintegrated for reasons i dont understand. Its over simplistic to say that its the pull of eo. If the blues had their house in order they would have plenty of kids up there. Traditional family loyalties in the gaa are a cornerstone of the clubs
The blues had a few years where the had very good underage success that transitioned to an excellent senior team and won a leinster. Even then the signs underage were worrying.
The tradition and history of the blues within the town where they have huge number of traditional blues families should of ensured that they had numbers but even they are going elsewhere
Pal and tinryland have large numbers leaving the town from parents who didnt want to go to eo but still dont see the blues or askea as the alternative.
The aim should be to raise the standards in other clubs not punish a club who is progressive and producing players for the county consistently
Tullow has no trickle down effect and is another underage wasteland
It comes down to structures and people"
Notice you totally ignored this question:

Obvious case in point. Eire Og have won three Minor A championships in a row*. How many of these players were involved yesterday?

This is not about whether the Blues "deserve" players. It's about what's good for Carlow football. And allowing one club the unrestricted pick of half the county is not a healthy situation.

As for why the Blues have "slowly disintegrated?" A major factor has been Eire Og poaching their best young players. I have been involved with underage, and I have seen it. A lad that looks good for O'Hanrahan's one year, is up at Eire Og the next year. It's even happened with Colts players. In fact, there's an example from very recently.

This started with the very good corner forward from the Carlow minor team which reached the Leinster final in 2007. And it snowballed from there. The county board should never have allowed that transfer. They were warned at the time, and ignored the warnings.

Btw, it's not like the O'Hanrahan's are not trying to turn the tide. As far as I know, they've even employed a full time development officer. The issue is with the catchment area.

In Kilkenny town, this is divided up. That's why there's three (very strong) senior clubs there. Would Kilkenny be as good if James Stephens had the whole place to themselves?

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 554 - 02/10/2023 12:56:10    2506615

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Replying To Carlow1970:  "Eo was set up as a football club. Be great if they were dual with their resources but they are not
Carlow town has wonderful facilities and have gotten their act together after years of mismanagement which led to the club falling to its knees much like the blues now.
An internal row has led to a second club in the town.
I think the simple solution is setanta to go back in with carlow town. If they combined their underage panels and coaches they would have a great set up. Only ones going to lose out with the split in resources are the kids that want to hurl. They join up at minor and i think under 15 anyway with setanta having no adult team
After that maybe visit the football clubs to try and promote and entice the kids to try hurling
Its wrong to be calling eo cowardly because you want them to sort out hurling in the town that has two hurling clubs.
Surely the county boards are the ones who are in place to manage these things"
Why would anybody in their right mind want CTHC and Setanta to merge? Thus reducing the amount of opportunity for kids to play hurling?

Only 15 can start. Half the country lives in the town.

As for Eire Og being cowardly by not promoting hurling? The original poster has a point.

Also, btw, St Mullins started as a hurling club, but they provide football too. So that's no excuse.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 554 - 02/10/2023 13:38:37    2506626

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Replying To CARPS:  "Notice you totally ignored this question:

Obvious case in point. Eire Og have won three Minor A championships in a row*. How many of these players were involved yesterday?

This is not about whether the Blues "deserve" players. It's about what's good for Carlow football. And allowing one club the unrestricted pick of half the county is not a healthy situation.

As for why the Blues have "slowly disintegrated?" A major factor has been Eire Og poaching their best young players. I have been involved with underage, and I have seen it. A lad that looks good for O'Hanrahan's one year, is up at Eire Og the next year. It's even happened with Colts players. In fact, there's an example from very recently.

This started with the very good corner forward from the Carlow minor team which reached the Leinster final in 2007. And it snowballed from there. The county board should never have allowed that transfer. They were warned at the time, and ignored the warnings.

Btw, it's not like the O'Hanrahan's are not trying to turn the tide. As far as I know, they've even employed a full time development officer. The issue is with the catchment area.

In Kilkenny town, this is divided up. That's why there's three (very strong) senior clubs there. Would Kilkenny be as good if James Stephens had the whole place to themselves?"
There is merit in what you say, but do you really think the Carlow county board are going to do anything? I don't think there is space in town for 3 football clubs all on the same road basically, I think realistically a merger of asca o hanrahans would make the most sense, both would gain, asca a grounds to call their own, o hanrahans an injection of new blood. You can roll out all these stats about school numbers etc but the reality is there are plenty of other sports competing as well as other clubs. I think two football clubs in town is plenty that would give eire og some competition for numbers and it may lay the ground work for an eventual merger of setanta/cthc with these two football clubs. The other option is to let it play out. One of either asca or o hanrahans will vanish and you get to the same place. Anything else happening is fantasy talk and not in the realms of what can happen. Maybe some arrangement asca blues or something like that could be done. On their own I don't think either club will ever play senior football again. That's my opinion I'm involved at under age for years and can see the trends 10 years ahead.

You can see clubs coming years in advance, first at go games and then later at 11s 13s 15s 17s if you're fielding at division 2 or 3 all the way up you won't suddenly become a senior club out of the blue, you will he junior or intermediate at best. The exception to this is a strong club that's already senior with great structures for developing the small pool of talent they have, I'm thinking rathvilly in football and St mullins in hurling particularly, they seem to be able to negotiate a limited underage pool and maximise the talent they do have. However if you're a junior club and only producing division 2 and 3 underage teams it's nearly impossible to rise to senior as the base isn't there.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1542 - 02/10/2023 14:41:52    2506641

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "There is merit in what you say, but do you really think the Carlow county board are going to do anything? I don't think there is space in town for 3 football clubs all on the same road basically, I think realistically a merger of asca o hanrahans would make the most sense, both would gain, asca a grounds to call their own, o hanrahans an injection of new blood. You can roll out all these stats about school numbers etc but the reality is there are plenty of other sports competing as well as other clubs. I think two football clubs in town is plenty that would give eire og some competition for numbers and it may lay the ground work for an eventual merger of setanta/cthc with these two football clubs. The other option is to let it play out. One of either asca or o hanrahans will vanish and you get to the same place. Anything else happening is fantasy talk and not in the realms of what can happen. Maybe some arrangement asca blues or something like that could be done. On their own I don't think either club will ever play senior football again. That's my opinion I'm involved at under age for years and can see the trends 10 years ahead.

You can see clubs coming years in advance, first at go games and then later at 11s 13s 15s 17s if you're fielding at division 2 or 3 all the way up you won't suddenly become a senior club out of the blue, you will he junior or intermediate at best. The exception to this is a strong club that's already senior with great structures for developing the small pool of talent they have, I'm thinking rathvilly in football and St mullins in hurling particularly, they seem to be able to negotiate a limited underage pool and maximise the talent they do have. However if you're a junior club and only producing division 2 and 3 underage teams it's nearly impossible to rise to senior as the base isn't there."
Barrowsider,

If a town team can win 18 out of 28 minors, while the other 15 juvenile clubs share eight, that indicates there is plenty of talent to go around the town. The problem with Eire Og sucking up everyone is that there is a huge drop off rate in the town, which means (for example) that late bloomers can't even stick with the game long enough to have that blooming.

Agree the clubs are maybe too clustered together.

Given they already mainly recruit from the Green Road school, is there a case for Asca moving to the SETU complex? Top class facilities there.

As for points that town clubs are in competition with other sports. Sure, but is everyone. There's soccer in Tullow, Bagenalstown, Borris, Rathvilly etc. And Tullow, and hinterland, is stronger in rugby than Carlow town at underage.

I refuse to believe that a town of 27,000 can't support three dual GAA clubs (because that's the road they all need to eventually go down), but the rest of the county (35,000) can populate 18 clubs. Where's the logic in that?

The solution is to enforce catchment areas. Which is what the clubs outside the town have always had to work within. Or perhaps link to schools as has been previously suggested.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 554 - 02/10/2023 19:11:06    2506688

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Replying To CARPS:  "Barrowsider,

If a town team can win 18 out of 28 minors, while the other 15 juvenile clubs share eight, that indicates there is plenty of talent to go around the town. The problem with Eire Og sucking up everyone is that there is a huge drop off rate in the town, which means (for example) that late bloomers can't even stick with the game long enough to have that blooming.

Agree the clubs are maybe too clustered together.

Given they already mainly recruit from the Green Road school, is there a case for Asca moving to the SETU complex? Top class facilities there.

As for points that town clubs are in competition with other sports. Sure, but is everyone. There's soccer in Tullow, Bagenalstown, Borris, Rathvilly etc. And Tullow, and hinterland, is stronger in rugby than Carlow town at underage.

I refuse to believe that a town of 27,000 can't support three dual GAA clubs (because that's the road they all need to eventually go down), but the rest of the county (35,000) can populate 18 clubs. Where's the logic in that?

The solution is to enforce catchment areas. Which is what the clubs outside the town have always had to work within. Or perhaps link to schools as has been previously suggested."
Very good point about catchment areas carps, which as you say is the general rule in rural areas. The figures are very stark. 3 clubs from 28k and 18 clubs from 35k.wow.Shows the lack of organisation in the town and similarly at CB level but no surprise there.

Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 145 - 03/10/2023 10:10:17    2506745

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Replying To CARPS:  "Barrowsider,

If a town team can win 18 out of 28 minors, while the other 15 juvenile clubs share eight, that indicates there is plenty of talent to go around the town. The problem with Eire Og sucking up everyone is that there is a huge drop off rate in the town, which means (for example) that late bloomers can't even stick with the game long enough to have that blooming.

Agree the clubs are maybe too clustered together.

Given they already mainly recruit from the Green Road school, is there a case for Asca moving to the SETU complex? Top class facilities there.

As for points that town clubs are in competition with other sports. Sure, but is everyone. There's soccer in Tullow, Bagenalstown, Borris, Rathvilly etc. And Tullow, and hinterland, is stronger in rugby than Carlow town at underage.

I refuse to believe that a town of 27,000 can't support three dual GAA clubs (because that's the road they all need to eventually go down), but the rest of the county (35,000) can populate 18 clubs. Where's the logic in that?

The solution is to enforce catchment areas. Which is what the clubs outside the town have always had to work within. Or perhaps link to schools as has been previously suggested."
I think you have to keep to what's achievable, I don't think you will see a scenario where schools will be assigned to certain clubs, that needs the schools agreement and they would not want an obstruction to who can go to school there. If you want to win a school over you have to work at it. You also have to look at how you lost it to start with. It's a long term project which means a focus on 6 +7 year olds. So what you are looking at is a 12 to 15 year development plan, the human resources you need to do it properly is incredibly hard for a small club to achieve

you're looking at the number of kids and population but that's only half the equation, the other half is having the number of volunteers to actually run a success underage program, I'm going to assume you're not involved at your club presently or you would realise this, and then it's also about having quality people too that won't turn people off it. Small clubs can't pick and choose and this is an issue.

In my opinion if you want to maximise participation in Carlow town asca and o hanrahans need to come together, they could create a very competitive club between them and would give kids that viable option to join. Look at how st martins have progressed in their short existence, they have just qualified for their second minor A final in a row which is a brilliant achievement

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1542 - 03/10/2023 10:12:01    2506746

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