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Replying To CARPS:  "The county convention is instructive in relation to what you just said.

Back in the 1990s, they involved genuine debate, and remember some running into a second day, because of disagreements.

Nowadays, they are like the North Korean politburo. No dissent, and the whole thing is over in a couple of hours.

And you can't even smoke anymore!

Seriously, though, it does show that the Board is an effective dictatorship.

As for the serious, paid, position you mention. Agree 100%. And what's even more ridiculous is appointing another football only person to the post... in a dual county.

The successful applicant should have had a background in finance, PR, media or logistics (or all would be ideal!). Not sure what retired public servants, or those on a career break, have to offer in that regard."
As my father would say "Better to have a stranger pat you on the back for good work than to pat yourself on the back"

Think that says a lot about the County Board in Carlow. A yearly game of chess where no pieces leave the board, but they all move at some stage to stay in the game.

TownGael29 (Carlow) - Posts: 27 - 03/08/2023 01:38:33    2498772

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "Problem is asca school is pretty much untapped, participation is very low, possibly due to there been a lot of new irish there, it can be hard to entice them although it can be done but I think that's something that needs to be done on county level not club, the gdas probably need to put a focus on getting them involved.

My understanding of how it works now is its up to clubs to go into schools and try get players up I know o hanrahans have a dedicated gpo now and he is doing good work, that takes time, certainly what you're suggesting would make that work easier, if he had just the one school to work from he could dedicate that time to it and maximise the numbers, as it stands there are probably 8 clubs drawing from Bishop foleys while the Irish school is probably 99% eire og. Educate together and asca then are a long way behind in terms of participation, while asca seem to do well from the green road school.

So to flesh out you're suggestion then you would be looking at eire og (irish school) asca (asca school) and o hanrahans (St Josephs/bishop foley) with educate together open to all

maybe or try form a school team from educate together that enters in the juvenile leagues up to u13 maybe that's where the gdas could step in to help. That would drive participation up in the town.

Graige issue is hard to solve, it's not just graige either I can think of a few lads born and raised in town playing outside it's probably not worth the hassle trying to as it goes both ways."
This its a very solid post. Seems we are making progress!!

From what you say, Josephs/Bishop Foley to O'Hanrahan's, Asca/Green Road to Asca and Gaelscoil/Educate Together to Eire Og looks like a workable starting formula.

Then there's a question of what to do about hurling. Maybe Setanta works with Asca, Carlow Town with O'Hanrahan's and Eire Og go dual? With the same primary school parameters?

Disagree on Graigue. I think county board should be hardline on enforcing the county boundary. Many in Leix would welcome it too, as they are also not comfortable with the 'grey area.'

There is a serious case for a Carlow-Graigue club to be formed, if the existing club insists on staying in Leix.

The fact is most of the kids who live in Graigue now are not from 'traditional' local families and they really don't care about what happened in 1926. That era is over.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 742 - 03/08/2023 11:12:38    2498809

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Replying To TownGael29:  "As my father would say "Better to have a stranger pat you on the back for good work than to pat yourself on the back"

Think that says a lot about the County Board in Carlow. A yearly game of chess where no pieces leave the board, but they all move at some stage to stay in the game."
To play devil's advocate, while the county board is a closed shop, there are also not exactly tons of people breaking down their doors wanting to volunteer. Especially since they stopped accepting cash at turnstiles for big games.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 742 - 03/08/2023 11:13:54    2498811

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Replying To TownGael29:  "As my father would say "Better to have a stranger pat you on the back for good work than to pat yourself on the back"

Think that says a lot about the County Board in Carlow. A yearly game of chess where no pieces leave the board, but they all move at some stage to stay in the game."
I have been following this thread with interest. Very well thought out and articulated suggestions and all kept to a level of civility not seen on many forums. IMO we have had the same difficulties over the years, particularly at top table level in my county. I and others have been critical of our county board over the years for the "musical chairs" syndrome. We have had 140 plus years of mediocrity. Some of our board have been in situ for maybe a third of that time. When this is brought up, we get hopped off by supporters of the status quo so most posters just lose interest and either leave our site or give the odd opinion on other matters. I have yet to see any such response on here. Please excuse the intrusion and keep up the good work. If enough people keep hammering away, the penny just might drop and change could be brought about.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1325 - 03/08/2023 11:14:29    2498812

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Replying To CARPS:  "This its a very solid post. Seems we are making progress!!

From what you say, Josephs/Bishop Foley to O'Hanrahan's, Asca/Green Road to Asca and Gaelscoil/Educate Together to Eire Og looks like a workable starting formula.

Then there's a question of what to do about hurling. Maybe Setanta works with Asca, Carlow Town with O'Hanrahan's and Eire Og go dual? With the same primary school parameters?

Disagree on Graigue. I think county board should be hardline on enforcing the county boundary. Many in Leix would welcome it too, as they are also not comfortable with the 'grey area.'

There is a serious case for a Carlow-Graigue club to be formed, if the existing club insists on staying in Leix.

The fact is most of the kids who live in Graigue now are not from 'traditional' local families and they really don't care about what happened in 1926. That era is over."
The stand alone clubs aren't helping us, Carlow town seem to be doing well at juvenile in recent years but for bringing those lads from 4 or 5 football clubs to senior is very hard it would be far better if they had football and hurling, eire og should definitely be dualing so should palatine. The closer you look at the structures within the county the bigger the mess. What you're looking to do is tidy things up, by dualing you also create more volunteers, tying a school to a club, you make friends in school it's the only place you actually do make friends as a child it makes sense then that you play sport with your friends which is better for player retention.

A scenario where asca and setanta combined and carlow town and o hanrahans did like wise with eire og and pal dualing would be ideal, so if you go to Bishop foleys you know who you play for, likewise if you're in benekerry or the Irish school. No transfers until 18

I don't even think you need to push the graige issue if we start doing it right on this side it solves itself. But I do think graige would prosper within carlow.

How do you go about these changes, it would be hard to do it instantly but I think you could say we are starting with next year's 7s and from then on it's tied, clubs like pal and eire og could start straight away and that would move it on in general, there might be a small bit of pain for some in its infancy but I think long term the gains could be huge.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1671 - 03/08/2023 18:27:12    2498927

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I have been following this thread with interest. Very well thought out and articulated suggestions and all kept to a level of civility not seen on many forums. IMO we have had the same difficulties over the years, particularly at top table level in my county. I and others have been critical of our county board over the years for the "musical chairs" syndrome. We have had 140 plus years of mediocrity. Some of our board have been in situ for maybe a third of that time. When this is brought up, we get hopped off by supporters of the status quo so most posters just lose interest and either leave our site or give the odd opinion on other matters. I have yet to see any such response on here. Please excuse the intrusion and keep up the good work. If enough people keep hammering away, the penny just might drop and change could be brought about."
Carlow is no different, but I always say the clubs are the county board, the county board doesn't exist in isolation it's made up of our clubs, and backward thinking clubs create backward county boards

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1671 - 03/08/2023 18:29:47    2498928

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "Carlow is no different, but I always say the clubs are the county board, the county board doesn't exist in isolation it's made up of our clubs, and backward thinking clubs create backward county boards"
That is a very good point re the clubs. I have made that point many times. There seems to be possibly a majority among delegates who seem happy with the status quo or possibly don't believe things can change. A kind of admiration for those who have " dedicated their lives" to the GAA. In
My lifetime I have known younger club delegates become disillusioned with the way business is conducted at the top level. There is a kind of circling of the wagons approach if an outsider dares try make a challenge. It's as if existing members can call on diehards in various clubs to come out and vote. I am now on my twilight years and have witnessed a steady decline in both hurling and football standards on our county. Some come on and say it's up to the clubs to raise their standards. But to me, it is surely the task of a properly functioning county board to drive the clubs towards raising their standards whether that by grants for coaching or whatever. It can sometimes seem like a chicken and egg conundrum.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1325 - 04/08/2023 10:12:19    2498971

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Replying To Freethinker:  "That is a very good point re the clubs. I have made that point many times. There seems to be possibly a majority among delegates who seem happy with the status quo or possibly don't believe things can change. A kind of admiration for those who have " dedicated their lives" to the GAA. In
My lifetime I have known younger club delegates become disillusioned with the way business is conducted at the top level. There is a kind of circling of the wagons approach if an outsider dares try make a challenge. It's as if existing members can call on diehards in various clubs to come out and vote. I am now on my twilight years and have witnessed a steady decline in both hurling and football standards on our county. Some come on and say it's up to the clubs to raise their standards. But to me, it is surely the task of a properly functioning county board to drive the clubs towards raising their standards whether that by grants for coaching or whatever. It can sometimes seem like a chicken and egg conundrum."
I think the problems are so big that's its easier to just ignore them, maybe luck will throw up and odd win in the leinster and there will be back slapping galore. Personally I think the approach has to take into account the county you're dealing with, what works for strong counties won't necessarily work for us, I think weaker counties should be looking to develop their own models be it in relation to club or inter County, same with player development, we can immitate what the strong counties do but without resources of said counties what you're getting is a cheap copy, I know carlow minors and 20/21 are less competitive than ever both codes. That's not to knock the hard work that goes into them but surely if something is delivering nothing it has to be torn down and rebuilt maybe several times until you find what works, we are going through the motions without stopping to think.

I don't see much changing in either place, it's very much a private club and dissenters will be weeded out of any decision making.

I look at counties like monaghan and how well they do, all Ireland minor finalist and senior semi with 65,000 people

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1671 - 04/08/2023 11:15:39    2498988

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Having read through the last few pages and been following the thread I think there is a lot of great ideas being said, and hopefully some of the ideas make it to the county board.

I think that something needs to be done in the schools in town to spread out the players into different clubs within the town, however I don't think that forcing them to play for a club based on their school until they are 18 is the way to go. I think that the county board could look at promoting a club to join for students within certain schools at a young age and holding training days for the few schools together at the club to get them to join. That way they are joining a club with their friends and will make friends with students from nearby schools which might hopefully balance out the numbers and talent, and make them less likely to leave when older.

As for amalgamating smaller clubs at underage, I'm not sure this is the way to go. As another poster said, there is great work being done in Asca at the minute, and if they were to amalgamate with another club would some of the players who are playing every game get as much game time? Or if they amalgamate just for an A-League would some of the better players get influenced by others on that team to join their club instead? This also happened at Grange, a few years ago they decided to separate from Tullow at underage, some great work was done by people in the club, players got involved in coaching and they have since had their first minor teams in about 20 years and have players at almost all age groups in the county setup. Maybe the amalgamation might work to allow a higher standard, but just some suggestions of fallbacks that there may be.

Ceatharlach15 (Carlow) - Posts: 8 - 09/08/2023 13:09:44    2499716

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Replying To Ceatharlach15:  "Having read through the last few pages and been following the thread I think there is a lot of great ideas being said, and hopefully some of the ideas make it to the county board.

I think that something needs to be done in the schools in town to spread out the players into different clubs within the town, however I don't think that forcing them to play for a club based on their school until they are 18 is the way to go. I think that the county board could look at promoting a club to join for students within certain schools at a young age and holding training days for the few schools together at the club to get them to join. That way they are joining a club with their friends and will make friends with students from nearby schools which might hopefully balance out the numbers and talent, and make them less likely to leave when older.

As for amalgamating smaller clubs at underage, I'm not sure this is the way to go. As another poster said, there is great work being done in Asca at the minute, and if they were to amalgamate with another club would some of the players who are playing every game get as much game time? Or if they amalgamate just for an A-League would some of the better players get influenced by others on that team to join their club instead? This also happened at Grange, a few years ago they decided to separate from Tullow at underage, some great work was done by people in the club, players got involved in coaching and they have since had their first minor teams in about 20 years and have players at almost all age groups in the county setup. Maybe the amalgamation might work to allow a higher standard, but just some suggestions of fallbacks that there may be."
Yeah I think in a case where you have clubs with 15 full age players you can probably make a case for not joining up, but very few can say that outside the big 3 if any. You definitely wouldn't be depriving anyone of the age a game, you just wouldn't have to be constantly pulling 2 and 3 years down to make a team, take minor this year both asca and myshall playing division 3 no benefit to their players that are good enough to be playing against 14 and 15 year olds.

You could also go year by year which would mean everyone gets more game time, it could be opt in too so teams will be free to make their own mind up but just one division so if you chose to stand alone you better be strong.

If we want good footballers we need better leagues, our clubs on their own can't create those leagues to me it's a no brainer

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1671 - 10/08/2023 10:35:09    2499839

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Congratulations to Rangers on winning the Sen hurling final on Sunday dethroning the champs St Mullins in very impressive fashion.
Those 3 first half.goals rocked The Saints and gave fuel to the Rangers men to keep going to the very end.
Marty got a bit of extra attention and this hampered him quite a bit and with James Doyke relatively quiet at midfield and Rangers absolutely ravenous for every ball, they were winners from.a fair bit out.
St Mullins have been great champions.and Rangers will no doubt want to play in Croke Park again and I am told they have the KK champions in the first round.
Well done to Rangers and well done to Paul O Brien on an excellent managerial performance.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1852 - 15/08/2023 21:04:10    2500691

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Fair play to them would fancy them to rattle whoever comes out of kk. Main problem will be lack of competitive games between now and November.

Quite a long wait whilst KK teams will be at full tilt going into it.

ITSCHOLAR (Carlow) - Posts: 304 - 16/08/2023 13:40:41    2500787

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Was a very good game, two sides going at it from the off. Rangers goals in first half done the trick but st mullins as expected went til the very end. Well done to kildavin/clonegal on winning the junior too. As a neutral at the finals I was glad to see another club emerge from the junior ranks. I fancy them to compete well at intermediate next year. Hopefully Burren rangers can follow them up the year after to make it even more competitive.

Unusedsub (Carlow) - Posts: 95 - 16/08/2023 16:57:50    2500860

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Replying To Unusedsub:  "Was a very good game, two sides going at it from the off. Rangers goals in first half done the trick but st mullins as expected went til the very end. Well done to kildavin/clonegal on winning the junior too. As a neutral at the finals I was glad to see another club emerge from the junior ranks. I fancy them to compete well at intermediate next year. Hopefully Burren rangers can follow them up the year after to make it even more competitive."
Great to see KC back and fair play to them Sunday. Was surprised by the standard being honest, some decent hurlers there. Keeping it going at underage is going to be the big thing for them

Burren Rangers will be up there soon, as they have alot of good young players coming through.

It's a shame the hurling hasn't stuck in Pal, as there is great potential there. No reason a hurling can't be supported in that Tnryland/Palatine/Bennekerry area.

TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 250 - 17/08/2023 14:15:49    2500994

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Replying To TaosHum:  "Great to see KC back and fair play to them Sunday. Was surprised by the standard being honest, some decent hurlers there. Keeping it going at underage is going to be the big thing for them

Burren Rangers will be up there soon, as they have alot of good young players coming through.

It's a shame the hurling hasn't stuck in Pal, as there is great potential there. No reason a hurling can't be supported in that Tnryland/Palatine/Bennekerry area."
Burren Rangers have a very young team and definitely will win in the next few years, if they stay together,which I believe they will.

Kikdavin/Clonegal were far and away the better team against MLR. Some of their players have been hurling with Ballinkillen and that was the crucial differemce. Having that experience put them in a good position going into the final.

Regarding the Palatine hurling position - it seems that if a few drive it then they will have a team and if not they won't, but that's at junior level.
That has irked Carlow town for years. The Carlow Hurling club feels and believes that players they have trained and coached as youngsters should stay with them. They feel that Pal are not providing them with any meaningful hurling, with perhaps a team being entered by Pal or perhaps not.
The fact that Pal has not bitten the bullet and refused to provide juvenile hurling speaks for itself.

Is it good enough that a club does not provide hurling to its juveniles but might have a junior tram and invariably rely on some who did play for Carlow Town but as young adults play football for Pal and are then encouraged to transfer to Pal hurling and perhaps play 2 or 3 games per year or none at all?
It is one factor in Carlow Town not having some players to play at junior and intermediate level.

Pal will argue that its the players who transfer as they are Pal players from the start and live in the community. That is all true but why does Pal not provide juvenile hurling for its juveniles?

In my view Pal should promote hurling by having teams entered and coached at juvenile level.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1852 - 20/08/2023 11:39:20    2501422

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Replying To TaosHum:  "Great to see KC back and fair play to them Sunday. Was surprised by the standard being honest, some decent hurlers there. Keeping it going at underage is going to be the big thing for them

Burren Rangers will be up there soon, as they have alot of good young players coming through.

It's a shame the hurling hasn't stuck in Pal, as there is great potential there. No reason a hurling can't be supported in that Tnryland/Palatine/Bennekerry area."
Burren Rangers have a very young team and definitely will win in the next few years, if they stay together,which I believe they will.

Kikdavin/Clonegal were far and away the better team against MLR. Some of their players have been hurling with Ballinkillen and that was the crucial differemce. Having that experience put them in a good position going into the final.

Regarding the Palatine hurling position - it seems that if a few drive it then they will have a team and if not they won't, but that's at junior level.
That has irked Carlow town for years. The Carlow Hurling club feels and believes that players they have trained and coached as youngsters should stay with them. They feel that Pal are not providing them with any meaningful hurling, with perhaps a team being entered by Pal or perhaps not.
The fact that Pal has not bitten the bullet and refused to provide juvenile hurling speaks for itself.

Is it good enough that a club does not provide hurling to its juveniles but might have a junior tram and invariably rely on some who did play for Carlow Town but as young adults play football for Pal and are then encouraged to transfer to Pal hurling and perhaps play 2 or 3 games per year or none at all?
It is one factor in Carlow Town not having some players to play at junior and intermediate level.

Pal will argue that its the players who transfer as they are Pal players from the start and live in the community. That is all true but why does Pal not provide juvenile hurling for its juveniles?

In my view Pal should promote hurling by having teams entered and coached at juvenile level.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1852 - 20/08/2023 11:39:29    2501423

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Carlow Senior Football Championship prediction

Group 1 Table
1. Tinryland
2. Bagenalstown
3. Rangers
4. Fenagh

Group 2 Table
1. Rathvilly
2. Eire Og
3. Palatine
4. Old Leighlin

Relegation playoff
Old Leighlin beat Fenagh

Quarter finals
Bagenalstown beat Palatine
Eire Og beat Rangers

Semi Finals
Eire Og beat Tinryland
Rathvilly beat Bagenalstown

Final
Eire Og beat Rathvilly

Carlowrising (Carlow) - Posts: 149 - 25/08/2023 16:21:01    2502250

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Lads is it tickets online for club games in Dcp or cash? Our brilliant Carlow Facebook page hasn't been updated since June & no mention on Instagram either. I know all inter County is gone online & think club was the same last year just not sure.

carlo (Carlow) - Posts: 228 - 26/08/2023 09:33:53    2502288

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Opening weekend of the football championships
We probably know as much as did before the weekend which is very little. Friday night saw bagenalstown over come a lively fenagh, it was probably the most entertaining game of the weekend although the bar was low. Eire og got over old leighlin just about on Saturday in what was a mistake laden game from both sides. Rathvilly and pal then tried to outdo them in what turned out to be a disappointing double header, pals discipline costing them in the final 10 mins. Last up was tinryland and mount leinster rangers tinryland looked to be in control for most of the game until a bizarre own point by the tinryland keeper which could have easily ended up in the net brought rangers back into it. Hoping round 2 offers more entertainment than round 1

Intermediate, saw wins for tullow clonmore eire og and balinabranna, I would imagine they will be the semi finalists as the others don't look to be up to much

Junior, leighlin Bridge edged out tinrylands second string, will have to improve if they are to win this out, the fighting cocks had a good win over o hanrahans which probably consigns the latter to a relegation final even at this early stage
Ballon had a big win on the other side and you would expect them to contest the final

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1671 - 27/08/2023 20:51:53    2502506

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "Opening weekend of the football championships
We probably know as much as did before the weekend which is very little. Friday night saw bagenalstown over come a lively fenagh, it was probably the most entertaining game of the weekend although the bar was low. Eire og got over old leighlin just about on Saturday in what was a mistake laden game from both sides. Rathvilly and pal then tried to outdo them in what turned out to be a disappointing double header, pals discipline costing them in the final 10 mins. Last up was tinryland and mount leinster rangers tinryland looked to be in control for most of the game until a bizarre own point by the tinryland keeper which could have easily ended up in the net brought rangers back into it. Hoping round 2 offers more entertainment than round 1

Intermediate, saw wins for tullow clonmore eire og and balinabranna, I would imagine they will be the semi finalists as the others don't look to be up to much

Junior, leighlin Bridge edged out tinrylands second string, will have to improve if they are to win this out, the fighting cocks had a good win over o hanrahans which probably consigns the latter to a relegation final even at this early stage
Ballon had a big win on the other side and you would expect them to contest the final"
Good assessment ! Tinryland are playing the same possession game and scored excellent points especu6 in the first half against a strong swirling breeze and that last 45 point for Rangers shocked Tinryland

Pal are not as good as last year -yet ! Rathvilly were strong in most sectors and direct. That approach yielded 2 goals and could have had more.
Eire Og were.mixong the good with the very poor while OL can improve too.
Fenagh looked the weakest of the teams. The Town Gaels have a decent side but don't look like they will trouble the bigger names.
Next weekend will tell a lot !

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1852 - 28/08/2023 08:47:51    2502551

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