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Replying To TownGael29: "Really interesting reading. I was a member of one of the clubs in the town that players would be poached from, I was asked a few times myself when i was younger if I was interested myself but stayed loyal as I loved the idea of being a one club man. Only joined another club because i moved the other side of the world.
The number of players over the last 30 years that "Started" with Asca and went on to be Inter County Players is pretty high. Danny Moran, Keith Jackson, Graham Power, Eric McCormack the list is endless. More became staple of another clubs B underage teams which never made sense to me.
We could talk about ideas all night and would present brilliant ones, but it would mean having these implemented which has zero chance of happening.
Asca are my club. We have never had our own ground. Again, we could have in the 80s but didn't accept an offer from a local businessman and still "rent" the presentation college. Truth is Asca have paid levies for stands and training centres but have never once received anything back. The county board have a pitch up outside Dr Cullen that they would be more interested in keeping for paid parking than offering to a club in the town that they know doesn't have a pitch. It doesn't have to be free, but the lift that would give Asca would be unreal,
We have done unreal work in the past 10 years to now have a thriving underage section and won a DIV 1B U17 last year which is an incredible achievement.
Our success recently has been down to some hardworking people who had the foresight to go into the green road school to recruit kids. That idea has saved Asca. I don't think we would be around anymore if it hadn't been done." Only replying to this excellent post now as I'm away on holidays, you're correct the work done by a few great volunteers in asca has been incredible, my post wasn't trying to undermine people like that who are out there trying to recruit young lads to fill their ranks and keep their clubs afloat. In essence what I'm suggesting is reimagining how we conduct our juvenile games in the county, those 17s who won 1b last year could have won 1a in an amalgamated structure and I know them chaps well they were very proud to win that 1b for asca they have been an outstanding group all the way up, but could you for a minute imagine them 5-6 lads lining out with say tinryland best 5-6 and o hanrahans and maybe grange or some other small club and taking the 1a title the benefit for smaller clubs bringing lads into the senior ranks who have won an A juvenile title is huge.
You can still have a stand alone league where every club goes alone, we have all year to do this, we are far to restricted time wise as it stands spliting the season with hurling and afraid to go against the other sports, there is no reason why we can't play our county A championship and then go back to our current structure when that's done or vice versa. It just takes a little bit of imagination
Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1625 - 29/07/2023 20:11:47
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Replying To Barrowsider: "Only replying to this excellent post now as I'm away on holidays, you're correct the work done by a few great volunteers in asca has been incredible, my post wasn't trying to undermine people like that who are out there trying to recruit young lads to fill their ranks and keep their clubs afloat. In essence what I'm suggesting is reimagining how we conduct our juvenile games in the county, those 17s who won 1b last year could have won 1a in an amalgamated structure and I know them chaps well they were very proud to win that 1b for asca they have been an outstanding group all the way up, but could you for a minute imagine them 5-6 lads lining out with say tinryland best 5-6 and o hanrahans and maybe grange or some other small club and taking the 1a title the benefit for smaller clubs bringing lads into the senior ranks who have won an A juvenile title is huge.
You can still have a stand alone league where every club goes alone, we have all year to do this, we are far to restricted time wise as it stands spliting the season with hurling and afraid to go against the other sports, there is no reason why we can't play our county A championship and then go back to our current structure when that's done or vice versa. It just takes a little bit of imagination" Some great suggestions here. I hope you're all involved with clubs and try to influence an extremely indifferent Co. Board. That is where the problem lies. There is no inspiration coming from the top. Lots of paid officials just fulfilling the fixtures as far as I can see. Hopefully the new man will be more effective than the previous incumbent. Fingers crossed.
Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 227 - 30/07/2023 00:32:57
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Replying To Barrowsider: "I agree it's not without issues, but you have a reserve league for those extra lads or we go year by year so 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18. With the pool condensed you can go that way. 13s division 2 this year is a prime example of why we need to do this. Initially division 1 would have had 9 team but 3 pulled out to play division 2
I wouldn't do anything that would effect participation but we have to offer our best players good competition so that when we step onto development squads they have a background of competitive games" On the reserve league, I think it wouldn't work because, in honesty, who would want it? You'd have lads who would start with their clubs now playing for an amalgamated B Team which means little or nothing to them. They'd also be very quick to realise they've been deemed not good enough to play at the higher standard and probably just not bother with football and move onto something else. Also, if the purpose of the amalgamated side is to increase the standard of football lads are playing at, then does having a B Championship not contradict this? What's to be gained playing a reserve league if you've already deemed that standard not good enough?
I think your other suggestion on playing every year could work, have 13/15/17 with standard club championship and then 14/16/18 with the regional sides. Scheduling would the only thing here, maybe run the club championship as normal and the other as a winter league.
The club means everything in the GAA, especially at juvenile level, when your playing with lads you live beside or went to school with. I'd be very carful about disrupting that.
At Colts trials this year, 140 kids went in for it. That's a fantastic number and IMO where we should be targeting if your looking to increase the standard of football at juvenile level. With those numbers, you could have 5 teams of 25 playing each other and other developmental sides from around the country. You might struggle to get enough coaches and resources to go in to have 5 teams, but the demand for football is there, even at current club standards at that ag group.
TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 240 - 31/07/2023 09:49:34
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Replying To TaosHum: "On the reserve league, I think it wouldn't work because, in honesty, who would want it? You'd have lads who would start with their clubs now playing for an amalgamated B Team which means little or nothing to them. They'd also be very quick to realise they've been deemed not good enough to play at the higher standard and probably just not bother with football and move onto something else. Also, if the purpose of the amalgamated side is to increase the standard of football lads are playing at, then does having a B Championship not contradict this? What's to be gained playing a reserve league if you've already deemed that standard not good enough?
I think your other suggestion on playing every year could work, have 13/15/17 with standard club championship and then 14/16/18 with the regional sides. Scheduling would the only thing here, maybe run the club championship as normal and the other as a winter league.
The club means everything in the GAA, especially at juvenile level, when your playing with lads you live beside or went to school with. I'd be very carful about disrupting that.
At Colts trials this year, 140 kids went in for it. That's a fantastic number and IMO where we should be targeting if your looking to increase the standard of football at juvenile level. With those numbers, you could have 5 teams of 25 playing each other and other developmental sides from around the country. You might struggle to get enough coaches and resources to go in to have 5 teams, but the demand for football is there, even at current club standards at that ag group." I think we all believe in participation and want as many to play as much as possible and to have standards improve. That is what we all want.
You said it it that a major.prpblem is the number of coaches willing to put in the time. That is a real issue.
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1825 - 31/07/2023 17:47:00
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Replying To TaosHum: "On the reserve league, I think it wouldn't work because, in honesty, who would want it? You'd have lads who would start with their clubs now playing for an amalgamated B Team which means little or nothing to them. They'd also be very quick to realise they've been deemed not good enough to play at the higher standard and probably just not bother with football and move onto something else. Also, if the purpose of the amalgamated side is to increase the standard of football lads are playing at, then does having a B Championship not contradict this? What's to be gained playing a reserve league if you've already deemed that standard not good enough?
I think your other suggestion on playing every year could work, have 13/15/17 with standard club championship and then 14/16/18 with the regional sides. Scheduling would the only thing here, maybe run the club championship as normal and the other as a winter league.
The club means everything in the GAA, especially at juvenile level, when your playing with lads you live beside or went to school with. I'd be very carful about disrupting that.
At Colts trials this year, 140 kids went in for it. That's a fantastic number and IMO where we should be targeting if your looking to increase the standard of football at juvenile level. With those numbers, you could have 5 teams of 25 playing each other and other developmental sides from around the country. You might struggle to get enough coaches and resources to go in to have 5 teams, but the demand for football is there, even at current club standards at that ag group." Yes a winter league would be ideal or a spring league like the do for the non county minors has been successful, these ideas need to be discussed trialled and find what works best to try improve the over all standards.
I think we miss a big opportunity each year with foals trials, as you say there does be up to 140 13 years olds trying out and all of these won't be of county standard it would be a great opportunity to get all those lads on programs in some form of regional colts academy, we are a small county we should definitely be trying to get the absolute maximum out of each player, we go by a model that is standard in the gaa but I don't think they really had small counties in mind when creating that model.
Clubs have to play a greater role to play in all of this, how many club officers are aware of how their young players are doing.
Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1625 - 01/08/2023 06:42:35
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Interesting posts above, but all - with the greatest respect - missing the point. The main problem is the approach to urban areas.
Carlow Town has one football club which has made itself totally dominant, and is doing everything it can to keep its two local rivals down. Even poaching talented underage players. Which has the knock on effect of making the others even less competitive.
Allowing this situation is detrimental to Carlow GAA.
Tullow is a GAA wasteland and St Patrick's are not fit for purpose. Bagenalstown isn't great either - although at least some effort has been made to turn the tide.
Fact is 40% of our population resource lives in Carlow town, with another 8% in Tullow and 5% in Bagenalstown.
Last year, 68 teenagers were on minor county panels.
In football, 8 of the 34 were from Carlow town (23%), ZERO from Bagenalstown and ZERO from Tullow. So, 23% from 53% of the population. 7 of those town 8 were from Eire Og. Asca had 1.
In hurling, 5 of the 34 were from Carlow town (14%), 3 from Bagenalstown (8%) and ZERO again from Tullow.
So, across the two panels, Carlow town provided 19%, Bagenalstown 4% and Tullow 0%. Thus, the three main urban areas, gave us 23%, despite being home to 53% of the county.
It's very clear where the problems lie. We need a root and branch reform of underage structures in Carlow town. With the county board laying down the law on who can pick from where. There is also a case for another club. It may also be worth looking into whether dual clubs are an option. Furthermore, the Graiguecullen issue must finally be met head on. No more fudges.
Meanwhile, Tullow needs a radical overhaul. Can anyone remember the last time St Patrick's produced a notable county footballer or hurler? Best I can think of is Mark Dowling, 25 odd years ago.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 652 - 01/08/2023 10:51:46
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Replying To CARPS: "Interesting posts above, but all - with the greatest respect - missing the point. The main problem is the approach to urban areas.
Carlow Town has one football club which has made itself totally dominant, and is doing everything it can to keep its two local rivals down. Even poaching talented underage players. Which has the knock on effect of making the others even less competitive.
Allowing this situation is detrimental to Carlow GAA.
Tullow is a GAA wasteland and St Patrick's are not fit for purpose. Bagenalstown isn't great either - although at least some effort has been made to turn the tide.
Fact is 40% of our population resource lives in Carlow town, with another 8% in Tullow and 5% in Bagenalstown.
Last year, 68 teenagers were on minor county panels.
In football, 8 of the 34 were from Carlow town (23%), ZERO from Bagenalstown and ZERO from Tullow. So, 23% from 53% of the population. 7 of those town 8 were from Eire Og. Asca had 1.
In hurling, 5 of the 34 were from Carlow town (14%), 3 from Bagenalstown (8%) and ZERO again from Tullow.
So, across the two panels, Carlow town provided 19%, Bagenalstown 4% and Tullow 0%. Thus, the three main urban areas, gave us 23%, despite being home to 53% of the county.
It's very clear where the problems lie. We need a root and branch reform of underage structures in Carlow town. With the county board laying down the law on who can pick from where. There is also a case for another club. It may also be worth looking into whether dual clubs are an option. Furthermore, the Graiguecullen issue must finally be met head on. No more fudges.
Meanwhile, Tullow needs a radical overhaul. Can anyone remember the last time St Patrick's produced a notable county footballer or hurler? Best I can think of is Mark Dowling, 25 odd years ago." Jack Kennedy.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2956 - 01/08/2023 13:00:43
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Replying To CARPS: "Interesting posts above, but all - with the greatest respect - missing the point. The main problem is the approach to urban areas.
Carlow Town has one football club which has made itself totally dominant, and is doing everything it can to keep its two local rivals down. Even poaching talented underage players. Which has the knock on effect of making the others even less competitive.
Allowing this situation is detrimental to Carlow GAA.
Tullow is a GAA wasteland and St Patrick's are not fit for purpose. Bagenalstown isn't great either - although at least some effort has been made to turn the tide.
Fact is 40% of our population resource lives in Carlow town, with another 8% in Tullow and 5% in Bagenalstown.
Last year, 68 teenagers were on minor county panels.
In football, 8 of the 34 were from Carlow town (23%), ZERO from Bagenalstown and ZERO from Tullow. So, 23% from 53% of the population. 7 of those town 8 were from Eire Og. Asca had 1.
In hurling, 5 of the 34 were from Carlow town (14%), 3 from Bagenalstown (8%) and ZERO again from Tullow.
So, across the two panels, Carlow town provided 19%, Bagenalstown 4% and Tullow 0%. Thus, the three main urban areas, gave us 23%, despite being home to 53% of the county.
It's very clear where the problems lie. We need a root and branch reform of underage structures in Carlow town. With the county board laying down the law on who can pick from where. There is also a case for another club. It may also be worth looking into whether dual clubs are an option. Furthermore, the Graiguecullen issue must finally be met head on. No more fudges.
Meanwhile, Tullow needs a radical overhaul. Can anyone remember the last time St Patrick's produced a notable county footballer or hurler? Best I can think of is Mark Dowling, 25 odd years ago." Another was Jim Murphy played in the full back line, around the same time was James Clark the Carlow goal keeper a Tullow man as well.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2956 - 01/08/2023 13:21:50
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Replying To supersub15: "Jack Kennedy." I said a notable Carlow footballer or hurler.
James Clarke, fair enough, but he played most of his county football as an Old Leighlin player.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 652 - 01/08/2023 14:03:53
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Replying To CARPS: "Interesting posts above, but all - with the greatest respect - missing the point. The main problem is the approach to urban areas.
Carlow Town has one football club which has made itself totally dominant, and is doing everything it can to keep its two local rivals down. Even poaching talented underage players. Which has the knock on effect of making the others even less competitive.
Allowing this situation is detrimental to Carlow GAA.
Tullow is a GAA wasteland and St Patrick's are not fit for purpose. Bagenalstown isn't great either - although at least some effort has been made to turn the tide.
Fact is 40% of our population resource lives in Carlow town, with another 8% in Tullow and 5% in Bagenalstown.
Last year, 68 teenagers were on minor county panels.
In football, 8 of the 34 were from Carlow town (23%), ZERO from Bagenalstown and ZERO from Tullow. So, 23% from 53% of the population. 7 of those town 8 were from Eire Og. Asca had 1.
In hurling, 5 of the 34 were from Carlow town (14%), 3 from Bagenalstown (8%) and ZERO again from Tullow.
So, across the two panels, Carlow town provided 19%, Bagenalstown 4% and Tullow 0%. Thus, the three main urban areas, gave us 23%, despite being home to 53% of the county.
It's very clear where the problems lie. We need a root and branch reform of underage structures in Carlow town. With the county board laying down the law on who can pick from where. There is also a case for another club. It may also be worth looking into whether dual clubs are an option. Furthermore, the Graiguecullen issue must finally be met head on. No more fudges.
Meanwhile, Tullow needs a radical overhaul. Can anyone remember the last time St Patrick's produced a notable county footballer or hurler? Best I can think of is Mark Dowling, 25 odd years ago." Just want to add something to drive this point home. Just in case people don't understand how vital harvesting urban areas is when it comes to successful county teams.
The greatest football county of them all, Kerry, had a panel of 26 for last weekend's All-Ireland final. 13 of them came from Tralee and Killarney. That's, obviously, 50%.
Kerry's population is 156,458. There are 14,504 in Killarney and 26,079 in Tralee. So, collectively, they amount to 25% of the county, but half the county football panel.
We have it the other way around.
As said above, and in many previous posts, we need a radical plan for Carlow and Tullow towns. And vested interests will have to be toppled. Otherwise, we are wasting our time.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 652 - 01/08/2023 14:09:11
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Replying To CARPS: "Just want to add something to drive this point home. Just in case people don't understand how vital harvesting urban areas is when it comes to successful county teams.
The greatest football county of them all, Kerry, had a panel of 26 for last weekend's All-Ireland final. 13 of them came from Tralee and Killarney. That's, obviously, 50%.
Kerry's population is 156,458. There are 14,504 in Killarney and 26,079 in Tralee. So, collectively, they amount to 25% of the county, but half the county football panel.
We have it the other way around.
As said above, and in many previous posts, we need a radical plan for Carlow and Tullow towns. And vested interests will have to be toppled. Otherwise, we are wasting our time." You can't blame eire og for tullow and bagenalstown though, I think you're misdiagnosing the problem. I would argue if it wasn't for eire og carlow would be a wasteland with no football at all. You need coaches to bring lads through quality people who won't go losing half their players by 15s if a club doesn't have enough of those it doesn't matter how you divide the town it will fail, you also have to support those who do volunteer, if you look at the two biggest juvenile football clubs in Carlow they have loads of volunteers pal and eire og have 4-5 involved from 13s up. That's the challenge for the other clubs, identifying quality people who will become coaches, so that when you emerge out of gogames at 12 you have a team of coaches to bring them on. Preferably some senior players involved as well, the more people involved the easier recruitment is.
Now I don't think most clubs around the county can do that and that's where I come with my other ideas, I've seen it first hand, I'm involved with two juvenile teams, and it's my opinion based on experience that if you can't offer what I've mentioned above then you would be better as a part of some form of amalgamation, if 60 young lads walked into a small Club in the morning they would be gone after a week. The clubs wouldn't cope.
Tullow and bagenalstown are a bit disappointing although both are improving, if a bad culture takes hold it can be hard to improve it but there are better signs in recent years that tullow in particular are making strides, in a minor final in 21 I think semi in 20 won division 2 last year, that's solid enough, some good people involved there too.
Great people involved in every Club, I'm definitely not trying to undermine anyone's work, it's a fair commitment being involved in teams it can be very rewarding too, watching players improve and succeed and success is not always about medals it can come in many guises, for some just getting out on the field is success in itself.
If we want stronger carlow football then it needs major work. Sadly I don't hear any urgency coming from the county board/clubs. Most seem to be happy to plod along
Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1625 - 01/08/2023 16:52:29
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Replying To CARPS: "I said a notable Carlow footballer or hurler.
James Clarke, fair enough, but he played most of his county football as an Old Leighlin player." A bit disrespectful to Jack don't you think, do you not think Jack was a notable county footballer simply donning the Carlow jersey at a time when other prominent club players refused to, some stalwarts from so called bigger clubs like O' Hanrahans quiet simply didn't want to know, but Jack continued to make himself available to play and he did.
As for James Clarke, James is a Tullow man, a St. Patrick's man but later on in years he transferred to Old Leighlin like you said.
You never mentioned Jim Murphy. I'm not sure about your knowledge on Carlow football or Hurling.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2956 - 01/08/2023 19:46:34
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Replying To Barrowsider: "You can't blame eire og for tullow and bagenalstown though, I think you're misdiagnosing the problem. I would argue if it wasn't for eire og carlow would be a wasteland with no football at all. You need coaches to bring lads through quality people who won't go losing half their players by 15s if a club doesn't have enough of those it doesn't matter how you divide the town it will fail, you also have to support those who do volunteer, if you look at the two biggest juvenile football clubs in Carlow they have loads of volunteers pal and eire og have 4-5 involved from 13s up. That's the challenge for the other clubs, identifying quality people who will become coaches, so that when you emerge out of gogames at 12 you have a team of coaches to bring them on. Preferably some senior players involved as well, the more people involved the easier recruitment is.
Now I don't think most clubs around the county can do that and that's where I come with my other ideas, I've seen it first hand, I'm involved with two juvenile teams, and it's my opinion based on experience that if you can't offer what I've mentioned above then you would be better as a part of some form of amalgamation, if 60 young lads walked into a small Club in the morning they would be gone after a week. The clubs wouldn't cope.
Tullow and bagenalstown are a bit disappointing although both are improving, if a bad culture takes hold it can be hard to improve it but there are better signs in recent years that tullow in particular are making strides, in a minor final in 21 I think semi in 20 won division 2 last year, that's solid enough, some good people involved there too.
Great people involved in every Club, I'm definitely not trying to undermine anyone's work, it's a fair commitment being involved in teams it can be very rewarding too, watching players improve and succeed and success is not always about medals it can come in many guises, for some just getting out on the field is success in itself.
If we want stronger carlow football then it needs major work. Sadly I don't hear any urgency coming from the county board/clubs. Most seem to be happy to plod along" I think the route of the problem is i believe the county board.
Granted a lot of clubs are running around in circles, but the Carlow CB wouldn't even be bothered providing them with a decent circle for that.
I have brought this up with a family member about why the CB are not questioned more at meetings etc as they seem unanswerable to their clubs. He said you wouldn't last too long as a delegate if you ever tried.
Life is about standards and setting standards, we can say we have a "small population" but that's just an excuse for not having standards. I will harp on about this all the time, but look at the Carlow Training Centre, great facility but half thrown together. It even sets a mindset in young players going there, half job will do.
As i said, standards and seriousness are the ultimate problem in Carlow GAA. We recently replaced a schoolteacher with a retired Garda in the one paid, serious position in Carlow. That job should be filled by an experienced commercial minded operator from outside the county, No disrespect meant but it's another half job.
I once questioned the CB on why they couldn't provide a simple score update on a Junior B Final held before the Senior Hurling Final one year, and was promptly blocked on twitter, that's the level lads, don't critic us.
TownGael29 (Carlow) - Posts: 23 - 02/08/2023 03:20:19
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Replying To supersub15: "A bit disrespectful to Jack don't you think, do you not think Jack was a notable county footballer simply donning the Carlow jersey at a time when other prominent club players refused to, some stalwarts from so called bigger clubs like O' Hanrahans quiet simply didn't want to know, but Jack continued to make himself available to play and he did.
As for James Clarke, James is a Tullow man, a St. Patrick's man but later on in years he transferred to Old Leighlin like you said.
You never mentioned Jim Murphy. I'm not sure about your knowledge on Carlow football or Hurling." I said notable.
That implies a player who played for many years in championship games for Carlow. Of the three you mentioned, only James Clarke would fit that bill. Jack Kennedy was a good player. Jim Murphy played less.
I'm not sure about your knowledge of the English language. But his may help.
notable
adjective
worthy of attention or notice; remarkable.
noun
a famous or important person.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 652 - 02/08/2023 11:03:52
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Replying To TownGael29: "I think the route of the problem is i believe the county board.
Granted a lot of clubs are running around in circles, but the Carlow CB wouldn't even be bothered providing them with a decent circle for that.
I have brought this up with a family member about why the CB are not questioned more at meetings etc as they seem unanswerable to their clubs. He said you wouldn't last too long as a delegate if you ever tried.
Life is about standards and setting standards, we can say we have a "small population" but that's just an excuse for not having standards. I will harp on about this all the time, but look at the Carlow Training Centre, great facility but half thrown together. It even sets a mindset in young players going there, half job will do.
As i said, standards and seriousness are the ultimate problem in Carlow GAA. We recently replaced a schoolteacher with a retired Garda in the one paid, serious position in Carlow. That job should be filled by an experienced commercial minded operator from outside the county, No disrespect meant but it's another half job.
I once questioned the CB on why they couldn't provide a simple score update on a Junior B Final held before the Senior Hurling Final one year, and was promptly blocked on twitter, that's the level lads, don't critic us." The county convention is instructive in relation to what you just said.
Back in the 1990s, they involved genuine debate, and remember some running into a second day, because of disagreements.
Nowadays, they are like the North Korean politburo. No dissent, and the whole thing is over in a couple of hours.
And you can't even smoke anymore!
Seriously, though, it does show that the Board is an effective dictatorship.
As for the serious, paid, position you mention. Agree 100%. And what's even more ridiculous is appointing another football only person to the post... in a dual county.
The successful applicant should have had a background in finance, PR, media or logistics (or all would be ideal!). Not sure what retired public servants, or those on a career break, have to offer in that regard.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 652 - 02/08/2023 11:08:52
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Replying To Barrowsider: "You can't blame eire og for tullow and bagenalstown though, I think you're misdiagnosing the problem. I would argue if it wasn't for eire og carlow would be a wasteland with no football at all. You need coaches to bring lads through quality people who won't go losing half their players by 15s if a club doesn't have enough of those it doesn't matter how you divide the town it will fail, you also have to support those who do volunteer, if you look at the two biggest juvenile football clubs in Carlow they have loads of volunteers pal and eire og have 4-5 involved from 13s up. That's the challenge for the other clubs, identifying quality people who will become coaches, so that when you emerge out of gogames at 12 you have a team of coaches to bring them on. Preferably some senior players involved as well, the more people involved the easier recruitment is.
Now I don't think most clubs around the county can do that and that's where I come with my other ideas, I've seen it first hand, I'm involved with two juvenile teams, and it's my opinion based on experience that if you can't offer what I've mentioned above then you would be better as a part of some form of amalgamation, if 60 young lads walked into a small Club in the morning they would be gone after a week. The clubs wouldn't cope.
Tullow and bagenalstown are a bit disappointing although both are improving, if a bad culture takes hold it can be hard to improve it but there are better signs in recent years that tullow in particular are making strides, in a minor final in 21 I think semi in 20 won division 2 last year, that's solid enough, some good people involved there too.
Great people involved in every Club, I'm definitely not trying to undermine anyone's work, it's a fair commitment being involved in teams it can be very rewarding too, watching players improve and succeed and success is not always about medals it can come in many guises, for some just getting out on the field is success in itself.
If we want stronger carlow football then it needs major work. Sadly I don't hear any urgency coming from the county board/clubs. Most seem to be happy to plod along" I think you're also missing the point as regards Eire Og.
The fact is most people want to be part of the most successful/glamorous club. That applies to coaches, as much as players. When there are no defined boundaries in the town, it's only natural that most people will gravitate towards the hegemon (which Eire Og is). My point is that by introducing defined boundaries (whether by schools or area), resources would be better spread and it would have the effect of lifting up the entire town, as a GAA entity.
If you had almost equally strong Eire Og, Asca and O'Hanrahan's (maybe some form of Graigue club too) at underage, Carlow town football would take on a whole new character. More kids would want to play and be part of something with genuine rivalry and excitement. The rising tide would lift all boats.
Imagine if Kilkenny city (now smaller than Carlow town) only had James Stephens as a serious entity, and Dicksboro and O'Loughlin Gaels were only junior outfits. Do you think that would be good for Kilkenny hurling? Of course not. Kilkenny get around this, by having rules on which club 'city' players can join. We need to do the same.
As I said in an earlier post, I would even look at a fourth club.
There are 219 boys in Educate Together, Bishop Foley/St Josephs has 327, Gaelscoil 243, St Fiaccs 307 (most whom probably live in county Carlow), Green Road 65, Askea 291. Eire Og, as it stands, effectively has the cream of all that to itself. Which leaves other teams weak, and disheartens lads there, leaving them to turn to other sports. Not to mention forcing chaps who can't get a game at EO to fall away, when the could have blossomed later.
Meanwhile, Bennekerry has 195. And Palatine are able to compete just from that pool.
Go figure. It's clear we need to maximize our resources in the town.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 652 - 02/08/2023 11:46:47
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Replying To CARPS: "I think you're also missing the point as regards Eire Og.
The fact is most people want to be part of the most successful/glamorous club. That applies to coaches, as much as players. When there are no defined boundaries in the town, it's only natural that most people will gravitate towards the hegemon (which Eire Og is). My point is that by introducing defined boundaries (whether by schools or area), resources would be better spread and it would have the effect of lifting up the entire town, as a GAA entity.
If you had almost equally strong Eire Og, Asca and O'Hanrahan's (maybe some form of Graigue club too) at underage, Carlow town football would take on a whole new character. More kids would want to play and be part of something with genuine rivalry and excitement. The rising tide would lift all boats.
Imagine if Kilkenny city (now smaller than Carlow town) only had James Stephens as a serious entity, and Dicksboro and O'Loughlin Gaels were only junior outfits. Do you think that would be good for Kilkenny hurling? Of course not. Kilkenny get around this, by having rules on which club 'city' players can join. We need to do the same.
As I said in an earlier post, I would even look at a fourth club.
There are 219 boys in Educate Together, Bishop Foley/St Josephs has 327, Gaelscoil 243, St Fiaccs 307 (most whom probably live in county Carlow), Green Road 65, Askea 291. Eire Og, as it stands, effectively has the cream of all that to itself. Which leaves other teams weak, and disheartens lads there, leaving them to turn to other sports. Not to mention forcing chaps who can't get a game at EO to fall away, when the could have blossomed later.
Meanwhile, Bennekerry has 195. And Palatine are able to compete just from that pool.
Go figure. It's clear we need to maximize our resources in the town." Wow with those numbers in and around the town I wish we could get more involved in the small ball game. If some of the football clubs feel disheartened then spare a thought for the two hurling clubs in town whom only get a tiny piece of the pie. Before lads jump down my throat about it being a football tradition town I already know. There is also a strong hurling tradition but you have to go further back. Anyway I commend all involved in this discussion as you are all showing a passion towards carlow gaa.
Unusedsub (Carlow) - Posts: 85 - 02/08/2023 14:49:57
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Replying To Unusedsub: "Wow with those numbers in and around the town I wish we could get more involved in the small ball game. If some of the football clubs feel disheartened then spare a thought for the two hurling clubs in town whom only get a tiny piece of the pie. Before lads jump down my throat about it being a football tradition town I already know. There is also a strong hurling tradition but you have to go further back. Anyway I commend all involved in this discussion as you are all showing a passion towards carlow gaa." I agree with you. We should be trying to get kids playing both codes.
Look at the current underage development squads. The way they are set up, it seems to be easier for a kid to play elite soccer and elite football, than it is to play elite football and hurling together. Which is bizarre. Especially when you consider that our last really good minor football team (2007) had a large number of dual players.
Personally, I think there is a strong case that the town clubs should be made dual, as part of the radical reform we clearly need.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 652 - 02/08/2023 15:00:35
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Replying To CARPS: "I agree with you. We should be trying to get kids playing both codes.
Look at the current underage development squads. The way they are set up, it seems to be easier for a kid to play elite soccer and elite football, than it is to play elite football and hurling together. Which is bizarre. Especially when you consider that our last really good minor football team (2007) had a large number of dual players.
Personally, I think there is a strong case that the town clubs should be made dual, as part of the radical reform we clearly need." Yeah it would be great to have large numbers of duel players in the town. I find that also that kids can play a number of other sports at elite level but not football and hurling which is strange. It would be great if some of the town clubs were dual but alas I think that won't happen unfortunately.
Unusedsub (Carlow) - Posts: 85 - 02/08/2023 15:07:21
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Replying To CARPS: "I think you're also missing the point as regards Eire Og.
The fact is most people want to be part of the most successful/glamorous club. That applies to coaches, as much as players. When there are no defined boundaries in the town, it's only natural that most people will gravitate towards the hegemon (which Eire Og is). My point is that by introducing defined boundaries (whether by schools or area), resources would be better spread and it would have the effect of lifting up the entire town, as a GAA entity.
If you had almost equally strong Eire Og, Asca and O'Hanrahan's (maybe some form of Graigue club too) at underage, Carlow town football would take on a whole new character. More kids would want to play and be part of something with genuine rivalry and excitement. The rising tide would lift all boats.
Imagine if Kilkenny city (now smaller than Carlow town) only had James Stephens as a serious entity, and Dicksboro and O'Loughlin Gaels were only junior outfits. Do you think that would be good for Kilkenny hurling? Of course not. Kilkenny get around this, by having rules on which club 'city' players can join. We need to do the same.
As I said in an earlier post, I would even look at a fourth club.
There are 219 boys in Educate Together, Bishop Foley/St Josephs has 327, Gaelscoil 243, St Fiaccs 307 (most whom probably live in county Carlow), Green Road 65, Askea 291. Eire Og, as it stands, effectively has the cream of all that to itself. Which leaves other teams weak, and disheartens lads there, leaving them to turn to other sports. Not to mention forcing chaps who can't get a game at EO to fall away, when the could have blossomed later.
Meanwhile, Bennekerry has 195. And Palatine are able to compete just from that pool.
Go figure. It's clear we need to maximize our resources in the town." Problem is asca school is pretty much untapped, participation is very low, possibly due to there been a lot of new irish there, it can be hard to entice them although it can be done but I think that's something that needs to be done on county level not club, the gdas probably need to put a focus on getting them involved.
My understanding of how it works now is its up to clubs to go into schools and try get players up I know o hanrahans have a dedicated gpo now and he is doing good work, that takes time, certainly what you're suggesting would make that work easier, if he had just the one school to work from he could dedicate that time to it and maximise the numbers, as it stands there are probably 8 clubs drawing from Bishop foleys while the Irish school is probably 99% eire og. Educate together and asca then are a long way behind in terms of participation, while asca seem to do well from the green road school.
So to flesh out you're suggestion then you would be looking at eire og (irish school) asca (asca school) and o hanrahans (St Josephs/bishop foley) with educate together open to all
maybe or try form a school team from educate together that enters in the juvenile leagues up to u13 maybe that's where the gdas could step in to help. That would drive participation up in the town.
Graige issue is hard to solve, it's not just graige either I can think of a few lads born and raised in town playing outside it's probably not worth the hassle trying to as it goes both ways.
Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1625 - 02/08/2023 19:17:18
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