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Replying To Al_Maguire:  "Hi Muckross

The part of that post I consider a laughable conspiracy theory is the insinuation, almost accusation that Naomh Conaill knowingly and purposefully tried to con the officials throughout all of extra time.

So basically the poster is saying NC purposefully cheated.

There is a big difference between infringing a rule unintentionally/in the heat of the moment as I think most people think is the case and going out to cheat.

What's laughable is the idea that NC would risk trying something as stupid as that and not believe they wouldn't get caught.

The game was in the melting pot, they were county champions and their management team is certainly not stupid.

It makes no sense and is actually a defamatory if not even a libellous insinuation.

It also comes across as delusions of grandeur that NC would need to resort to that to win (not like they were way behind)

I have read your posts on the matter and while they are partial they are at least more balanced on the topic than the other fella, and his strangely high level of knowledge of what happened on the night.

I tend to take 'facts' from such a partial angle as Mr McCumhaill with a pinch of salt. Be good to hear the 'facts,' from the other team too.

As so far this has been a one side only presentation of 'facts'

I get that Kilcar are aggreived and I know the whole thing was handled poorly. But the narrative is now going from

Did NC break the rules
To NC did break the rules (fair enough)
To NC plotted to break the rules.

And I think that's a bad place to go with this for Kilcar people.

It's the county board that shafted you."
At no stage anywhere did I make any accusation as to the intent or otherwise of NC. Actually it doesn't matter whether there was intent or not. whether the club did it knowingly or by accident. All we can go on are the facts and we must stick to the facts. That the rules as regards substitutions were broken during the 2020 final.
As to these facts. Where does the evidence come from?
Well firstly video evidence was produced at the original CCC hearing. We know this because when Ulster sent the case back to our County Board it was because said video evidence had not been passed to the NC club as the CCC were mandated to do. This would have been a copy of the excellent livestream of the final. If Al_Maguire would get himself a copy of this coverage and watch extra time in particular. Focus on the period where NC introduce two changes at the same time. Watch what is going on.
The CCC would also have had a copy of the referees report. In this report would have been the slips of the substitutes for both ordinary and extra time. Now if there was only three slips and NC introduced four players during extra time then there is certainly a problem there. I am sure that the CCC also talked and interviewed those that officiated on the night. The referee, linesmen, fourth official, subsititue table officials, umpires and from all this evidence would have gained a clear idea as to what had happened during extra time. Both the original CCC board and the new one came to the same conclusion. That the rules of the CLG as to substitutions had been infringed. In the first instance they ordered the game to be replayed while the second committee fined NC €5000.
As I stated at the outset, intent or otherwise is not at issue. What is is that rules were broken. In no other sport that I can think of could an individual or team that is after winning an event be allowed to keep their title if there was clear evidence that they had broken the rules and had gained an unfair advantage as a result. If say a sprinter won a 100m race and was subsequently found to have drugs in his system, then he would be stripped of his title, fined and banned for a number of years.

fionmaccumhaill (Donegal) - Posts: 45 - 14/02/2022 16:51:53    2400350

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The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour, this is as true of Donegal's management team as it is of their fan boys on the Hoganstand forums.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!!

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3323 - 14/02/2022 20:01:06    2400394

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A tough assignment this week down in Kerry. It's been a long time (if ever?) that we got a result down there. Ideally you'd want as strong a panel as possible but the current injury situation will prevent that of course. I think that we can still be very competitive with them at the same time though. As the week goes on we'll hear more.

Obviously matchups will be key - Clifford & Geaney inside obviously. Sean O' Sullivan has been playing midfield these past few games. We'd also need someone with pace to track Gavin White's penetrating runs from deep.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9874 - 15/02/2022 09:26:39    2400411

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour, this is as true of Donegal's management team as it is of their fan boys on the Hoganstand forums.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!!"
Get a life lad , sick listening to your anti management vibes. If you were a Donegal fan you would be supportive of the effort that players and management put in. You r only contribution on this forum is pure anti management. Your like a broken record player. You and the other few posters who only emerge after a defeat. Sad individuals I must say. Lol

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2643 - 15/02/2022 10:21:03    2400428

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Replying To rorysboys:  "Get a life lad , sick listening to your anti management vibes. If you were a Donegal fan you would be supportive of the effort that players and management put in. You r only contribution on this forum is pure anti management. Your like a broken record player. You and the other few posters who only emerge after a defeat. Sad individuals I must say. Lol"
What did you make Na Rossa's opener at the weekend? Strange it was played in Lifford?

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1263 - 15/02/2022 11:15:21    2400445

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Replying To fionmaccumhaill:  "At no stage anywhere did I make any accusation as to the intent or otherwise of NC. Actually it doesn't matter whether there was intent or not. whether the club did it knowingly or by accident. All we can go on are the facts and we must stick to the facts. That the rules as regards substitutions were broken during the 2020 final.
As to these facts. Where does the evidence come from?
Well firstly video evidence was produced at the original CCC hearing. We know this because when Ulster sent the case back to our County Board it was because said video evidence had not been passed to the NC club as the CCC were mandated to do. This would have been a copy of the excellent livestream of the final. If Al_Maguire would get himself a copy of this coverage and watch extra time in particular. Focus on the period where NC introduce two changes at the same time. Watch what is going on.
The CCC would also have had a copy of the referees report. In this report would have been the slips of the substitutes for both ordinary and extra time. Now if there was only three slips and NC introduced four players during extra time then there is certainly a problem there. I am sure that the CCC also talked and interviewed those that officiated on the night. The referee, linesmen, fourth official, subsititue table officials, umpires and from all this evidence would have gained a clear idea as to what had happened during extra time. Both the original CCC board and the new one came to the same conclusion. That the rules of the CLG as to substitutions had been infringed. In the first instance they ordered the game to be replayed while the second committee fined NC €5000.
As I stated at the outset, intent or otherwise is not at issue. What is is that rules were broken. In no other sport that I can think of could an individual or team that is after winning an event be allowed to keep their title if there was clear evidence that they had broken the rules and had gained an unfair advantage as a result. If say a sprinter won a 100m race and was subsequently found to have drugs in his system, then he would be stripped of his title, fined and banned for a number of years."
"How this "substitute" was spirited in on the day was no joke. His proposed arrival into the field of play was not noted to his secretary as is mandated in the rules. Nor did said secretary make out a substitute slip for him which is required. He never went near the substitute desk which he is obligated to do when such a table exists at a game of this magnitude. No substitute slip was passed to the third official for checking which again is required.
Instead he was spirited into the field of play from the other side of the NC dugout far from the substitute table where he was obliged to come in from. So he played for nearly all of the extra time despite no record of his being there on the field of play at all. NC did bring on three "official" substitutes alright during extra time but he was not one of them. He by the rules of the CLG did not exist at all."

That is your insinuation of intent of NCs part

You're basically speaking on behalf of NCs secretary and all here

It certainly does matter if you're saying NC intended to it. As I said they are defamatory comments. And could be libelous!

It's not helpful language to the situation.

And how come you know all the 'facts' moreso than anyone else in the county, including NC officials.

A hidden agenda here?

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 306 - 15/02/2022 11:25:58    2400447

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "What did you make Na Rossa's opener at the weekend? Strange it was played in Lifford?"
I don't need to be a na Rossa member to support Bonner and his management team. I supported Mc Guinness . Then Rory and many managers before him. In my mind these people were elected to manage our teams. Whether you agree with them or not that's your prerogative. All your posts are so biased if you don't agree with what management are doing like not playing the right players or players out of position discuss it on this forum not belittling people the whole time. By the way where na Rossa play a challenge match doesn't bother me if Lifford asked to play them that's both clubs business.. this used to be a good forum till it was taken over by the keyboard warriors. See yous all in Killarney ha some hope.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2643 - 15/02/2022 13:18:00    2400477

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Sorry peilidor this post was not all targeted at you. I'm human after all and make mistakes now and again.. sorry again

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2643 - 15/02/2022 13:41:07    2400484

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "A tough assignment this week down in Kerry. It's been a long time (if ever?) that we got a result down there. Ideally you'd want as strong a panel as possible but the current injury situation will prevent that of course. I think that we can still be very competitive with them at the same time though. As the week goes on we'll hear more.

Obviously matchups will be key - Clifford & Geaney inside obviously. Sean O' Sullivan has been playing midfield these past few games. We'd also need someone with pace to track Gavin White's penetrating runs from deep."
Hows it going lockjaw? Seán O'Shea is gone back to centerforward for us again thank God as he's not a midfielder, he was only filling in there while the Na Gaeil boys Diarmuid O'Connor Jack Barry and Steffan Okunbar were on club duty.

Also Gavin White got injured against Kildare so not sure he'll be fit although Brian O'Beaglaoich played instead of hín against dublin and he had a savage game.

How's yer team fixed for Sunday!? Will ye have a full deck to deal with?

Our last league game against ye in killarney we barely won by a 1 point late in injury time if I remember correctly, and it was a great game.

Safe travels to all the Donegal fans making the long journey down.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 15/02/2022 13:45:29    2400485

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Hows it going lockjaw? Seán O'Shea is gone back to centerforward for us again thank God as he's not a midfielder, he was only filling in there while the Na Gaeil boys Diarmuid O'Connor Jack Barry and Steffan Okunbar were on club duty.

Also Gavin White got injured against Kildare so not sure he'll be fit although Brian O'Beaglaoich played instead of hín against dublin and he had a savage game.

How's yer team fixed for Sunday!? Will ye have a full deck to deal with?

Our last league game against ye in killarney we barely won by a 1 point late in injury time if I remember correctly, and it was a great game.

Safe travels to all the Donegal fans making the long journey down."
We'll be missing a few. Probably Murphy and Jason Mc Gee. Neil Mc Gee for sure and Hugh Mc Fadden and Jamie Brennan. Oisin Gallan also seems to be injured. With Odhran Mc N and Eoin Mc Hugh steeping away, our panel are light.

Are kerry missing many?

TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 1208 - 15/02/2022 14:57:02    2400509

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "A tough assignment this week down in Kerry. It's been a long time (if ever?) that we got a result down there. Ideally you'd want as strong a panel as possible but the current injury situation will prevent that of course. I think that we can still be very competitive with them at the same time though. As the week goes on we'll hear more.

Obviously matchups will be key - Clifford & Geaney inside obviously. Sean O' Sullivan has been playing midfield these past few games. We'd also need someone with pace to track Gavin White's penetrating runs from deep."
The form Kerry are in I wouldn't be expecting anything from this game, best we can do is get some lads game time and the experience of playing against some of the best players in the country, if we come away with a 4 or 5 point defeat we'll be doing ok, we have a better chance of picking up points in other matches.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3323 - 15/02/2022 15:03:05    2400512

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Hows it going lockjaw? Seán O'Shea is gone back to centerforward for us again thank God as he's not a midfielder, he was only filling in there while the Na Gaeil boys Diarmuid O'Connor Jack Barry and Steffan Okunbar were on club duty.

Also Gavin White got injured against Kildare so not sure he'll be fit although Brian O'Beaglaoich played instead of hín against dublin and he had a savage game.

How's yer team fixed for Sunday!? Will ye have a full deck to deal with?

Our last league game against ye in killarney we barely won by a 1 point late in injury time if I remember correctly, and it was a great game.

Safe travels to all the Donegal fans making the long journey down."
Tá mé go breá KingdomBoy, grma. Tú fhéin?

Yeah I was thinking after I posted that the lads from Na Gaeil were back alright, I only got to see a wee bit of the Dublin game and couldn't fully remember. Seán O'Shea is a cert for CHF so. I can see Paul Brennan tasked with picking him up. He's very physical but will need to watch the fouling or O'Shea will punish him.

I'd say Murphy won't be risked given what happened last year when he returned from injury too early. Ciaran Thompon has been injured as well and there are always wee knocks and niggles to contend with. The game might come too soon for the likes of Oisin Gallen, Jamie Brennan & Stephen McMenamin. It's a pity because we're a bit too reliant on Paddy McBrearty in the inside forward line. Plus it would be great to see a fully fit Stephen McMenamin renew hostilities with David Clifford. They had a right old battle in the drawn super 8 game a few years back. Unfortunatley McMenamin has been cursed with injuries but hopefully will get a clear run at it later in the year.

I remember that drawn game in Killarney a few years back. Ye nicked it at the end, but if I remember rightly there was a double hop in the buildup which the ref missed? Paddy McBrearty & Odhran MacNiallais were superb for us that day. Odhran isn't involved anymore as he has stepped away from the county scene.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9874 - 15/02/2022 15:14:34    2400515

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Replying To fionmaccumhaill:  "At no stage anywhere did I make any accusation as to the intent or otherwise of NC. Actually it doesn't matter whether there was intent or not. whether the club did it knowingly or by accident. All we can go on are the facts and we must stick to the facts. That the rules as regards substitutions were broken during the 2020 final.
As to these facts. Where does the evidence come from?
Well firstly video evidence was produced at the original CCC hearing. We know this because when Ulster sent the case back to our County Board it was because said video evidence had not been passed to the NC club as the CCC were mandated to do. This would have been a copy of the excellent livestream of the final. If Al_Maguire would get himself a copy of this coverage and watch extra time in particular. Focus on the period where NC introduce two changes at the same time. Watch what is going on.
The CCC would also have had a copy of the referees report. In this report would have been the slips of the substitutes for both ordinary and extra time. Now if there was only three slips and NC introduced four players during extra time then there is certainly a problem there. I am sure that the CCC also talked and interviewed those that officiated on the night. The referee, linesmen, fourth official, subsititue table officials, umpires and from all this evidence would have gained a clear idea as to what had happened during extra time. Both the original CCC board and the new one came to the same conclusion. That the rules of the CLG as to substitutions had been infringed. In the first instance they ordered the game to be replayed while the second committee fined NC €5000.
As I stated at the outset, intent or otherwise is not at issue. What is is that rules were broken. In no other sport that I can think of could an individual or team that is after winning an event be allowed to keep their title if there was clear evidence that they had broken the rules and had gained an unfair advantage as a result. If say a sprinter won a 100m race and was subsequently found to have drugs in his system, then he would be stripped of his title, fined and banned for a number of years."
Also why would a neutral impartial fan want to sit down and watch a video looking out for trangressions like 'spiriting' a player on to the pitch when the ref wasn't looking?

I'm not arguing that Kilcar didn't have a right to appeal. No one is.

But's it also clear to me your angle on events is not fully impartial.

Two distinct legal arguments can be made by the same set of 'facts' you know.

But we have to take your word for it that's what happened - even though you could be the person who brought the appeal in the first place. So you're not a credible source until you can prove otherwise.

So please stick to objective facts and not the laughable conspiracy nonsense. It loses credibility for your argument.

And only adds to any bad blood between the clubs.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 306 - 15/02/2022 15:45:41    2400520

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "A tough assignment this week down in Kerry. It's been a long time (if ever?) that we got a result down there. Ideally you'd want as strong a panel as possible but the current injury situation will prevent that of course. I think that we can still be very competitive with them at the same time though. As the week goes on we'll hear more.

Obviously matchups will be key - Clifford & Geaney inside obviously. Sean O' Sullivan has been playing midfield these past few games. We'd also need someone with pace to track Gavin White's penetrating runs from deep."
Very tough assignment is right. Think we beat them there the first time Donegal for to division 1. 88 was it.
I see you have the answers from the Kerry poster on their team. They look to going close enough to full throttle from team selection pov, playing their strongest teams available and it's very close to their championship team. Donegal are short close to half a team and even with a full team you'd be under some pressure.

The last time we played them in Killarney in 2018 Clifford made his debut. He'll be a tougher man to mark now. His point scoring range his superb. As you mentioned Patrick Mcbrearty was on fire that day and was all that year until his cruciate. Mcniallais was also class. The were two great catches he made that spring to mind. There were unfortunately some game management challenges that day too. A bad free were ball was given away for a goal sticks in my head. Nathan Mullen also got sent off and didn't feature much after that.

Dublin played fierce open against them two weeks ago in the first half. Donegal would be mad to do that. As much as it will be very tough it does give players the opportunity to go against the best. Best of luck to them.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 895 - 15/02/2022 17:24:09    2400545

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The weather could have a big bearing on things as well. Hopefully the stormy conditions will have subsided by the weekend. It would be great too if UL win the Sigerson and Clifford goes on the beer for about 3 days!

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9874 - 16/02/2022 11:22:21    2400627

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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32:  "Very tough assignment is right. Think we beat them there the first time Donegal for to division 1. 88 was it.
I see you have the answers from the Kerry poster on their team. They look to going close enough to full throttle from team selection pov, playing their strongest teams available and it's very close to their championship team. Donegal are short close to half a team and even with a full team you'd be under some pressure.

The last time we played them in Killarney in 2018 Clifford made his debut. He'll be a tougher man to mark now. His point scoring range his superb. As you mentioned Patrick Mcbrearty was on fire that day and was all that year until his cruciate. Mcniallais was also class. The were two great catches he made that spring to mind. There were unfortunately some game management challenges that day too. A bad free were ball was given away for a goal sticks in my head. Nathan Mullen also got sent off and didn't feature much after that.

Dublin played fierce open against them two weeks ago in the first half. Donegal would be mad to do that. As much as it will be very tough it does give players the opportunity to go against the best. Best of luck to them."
Remember being down there in 89 or early nineties and they beat us by a point the follower God rest him was giving out yards in the demo on Thurs that only 6 went down to support them and I was thinking there was 4 of us in the disco on sat night drinking with seamus moynihan so who was the other 2, moynihan played a blinder BTW.

Tyrion (Donegal) - Posts: 170 - 16/02/2022 13:22:44    2400682

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My God I forgot about the follower, reading his column and the club notes was all the info we got in those days,
I see TG4 are covering the game so that's something to look forward too on Sunday, hope the wind settles by then. I think Bonner should treat this one like a friendly game, give as many fringe players as he can a run out, I'd rest Murphy and any man with any bits of injuries at all.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3323 - 16/02/2022 13:48:39    2400689

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Replying To fionmaccumhaill:  "At no stage anywhere did I make any accusation as to the intent or otherwise of NC. Actually it doesn't matter whether there was intent or not. whether the club did it knowingly or by accident. All we can go on are the facts and we must stick to the facts. That the rules as regards substitutions were broken during the 2020 final.
As to these facts. Where does the evidence come from?
Well firstly video evidence was produced at the original CCC hearing. We know this because when Ulster sent the case back to our County Board it was because said video evidence had not been passed to the NC club as the CCC were mandated to do. This would have been a copy of the excellent livestream of the final. If Al_Maguire would get himself a copy of this coverage and watch extra time in particular. Focus on the period where NC introduce two changes at the same time. Watch what is going on.
The CCC would also have had a copy of the referees report. In this report would have been the slips of the substitutes for both ordinary and extra time. Now if there was only three slips and NC introduced four players during extra time then there is certainly a problem there. I am sure that the CCC also talked and interviewed those that officiated on the night. The referee, linesmen, fourth official, subsititue table officials, umpires and from all this evidence would have gained a clear idea as to what had happened during extra time. Both the original CCC board and the new one came to the same conclusion. That the rules of the CLG as to substitutions had been infringed. In the first instance they ordered the game to be replayed while the second committee fined NC €5000.
As I stated at the outset, intent or otherwise is not at issue. What is is that rules were broken. In no other sport that I can think of could an individual or team that is after winning an event be allowed to keep their title if there was clear evidence that they had broken the rules and had gained an unfair advantage as a result. If say a sprinter won a 100m race and was subsequently found to have drugs in his system, then he would be stripped of his title, fined and banned for a number of years."
As for your point on no other sport that you can think of could an individual or team gain an advantage. Well go back and look at the Namoh Conaill-Glenswilly game of 2014 where this exact same thing happened and Glenswilly were not punished what so ever.

I would like to ask you one simple question
have you seen the the team sheet that was handed over to the Ref/assistants at the start of Extra time?

The reason I ask is because from my knowledge the alleged player was named in this team instead of the black carded player and then came on 6-7 mins into extra time when the black card sin bin had completed. This is not a sub and therefore does not need to go the desk in the center and can enter from the dugout.

I am well aware this is the a rule breach but it is not the same facts that you are saying. I also have not seen the team sheet so this is solely my opinion and what I have been told.

naomh_conaill_4 (Donegal) - Posts: 502 - 16/02/2022 14:16:48    2400699

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Replying To Tyrion:  "Remember being down there in 89 or early nineties and they beat us by a point the follower God rest him was giving out yards in the demo on Thurs that only 6 went down to support them and I was thinking there was 4 of us in the disco on sat night drinking with seamus moynihan so who was the other 2, moynihan played a blinder BTW."
That's a good story. Maybe Clifford will be out celebrating the sigerson this Saturday!

Moynihan is a player that they hold in very high regard down there, particularly amongst players who played with him. Brendan Devenney talks a bit in awe of him from his international rules days.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 895 - 16/02/2022 14:27:21    2400703

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Yeah Moynihan was a Rolls Royce player. He could have done a job in practically every position on the field - a super player.

It's amazing how many outstanding players Kerry have churned out over the years. Like Kilkenny in the hurling, what is it that they have down there that has enabled them to keep producing the players and teams to win so many titles?

I suppose a combination of tradition, competition (they play football practically all year round). coaching....

They're going through a fallow enough period at present with only one senior All Ireland in the last 10 years. They're very close and will be there or thereabouts again this year though. Jack O'Connor knows the craic and he wouldn't be going back again if he didn't think it was within reach.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9874 - 16/02/2022 15:32:12    2400718

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