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We should appeal the 5k fine now ;)

All joking aside this was dealt with abysmally and the county board are know for this. Kilcar were in their right to appeal same way we were in our right back in 2013 with Glenswilly and both times it was dealt with horribly. The county board need refreshing and need younger people in there make it more streamlined and start making them selves looking good.

One thing I will say is apart of Kilcars appeal was that a player came on from the dugout rather than the half way line is a bit of a joke. Every team including Kilcar can be proven Guilty of this throughout every single year.

naomh_conaill_4 (Donegal) - Posts: 502 - 10/02/2022 10:16:53    2399620

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Replying To naomh_conaill_4:  "We should appeal the 5k fine now ;)

All joking aside this was dealt with abysmally and the county board are know for this. Kilcar were in their right to appeal same way we were in our right back in 2013 with Glenswilly and both times it was dealt with horribly. The county board need refreshing and need younger people in there make it more streamlined and start making them selves looking good.

One thing I will say is apart of Kilcars appeal was that a player came on from the dugout rather than the half way line is a bit of a joke. Every team including Kilcar can be proven Guilty of this throughout every single year."
Agreed 100%. Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the thing, and we could debate that for years, on thing there can be no disagreement about is the total balls the county board made of the whole thing., and yet they walk away €5,000 to the good,

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 10/02/2022 12:40:33    2399647

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Replying To naomh_conaill_4:  "We should appeal the 5k fine now ;)

All joking aside this was dealt with abysmally and the county board are know for this. Kilcar were in their right to appeal same way we were in our right back in 2013 with Glenswilly and both times it was dealt with horribly. The county board need refreshing and need younger people in there make it more streamlined and start making them selves looking good.

One thing I will say is apart of Kilcars appeal was that a player came on from the dugout rather than the half way line is a bit of a joke. Every team including Kilcar can be proven Guilty of this throughout every single year."
How this "substitute" was spirited in on the day was no joke. His proposed arrival into the field of play was not noted to his secretary as is mandated in the rules. Nor did said secretary make out a substitute slip for him which is required. He never went near the substitute desk which he is obligated to do when such a table exists at a game of this magnitude. No substitute slip was passed to the third official for checking which again is required.
Instead he was spirited into the field of play from the other side of the NC dugout far from the substitute table where he was obliged to come in from. So he played for nearly all of the extra time despite no record of his being there on the field of play at all. NC did bring on three "official" substitutes alright during extra time but he was not one of them. He by the rules of the CLG did not exist at all.
But going through the debacle of the appeals process that followed, one would really have to question the CCC of the Donegal County Board as to their complete mishandling of the original hearing where the video evidence as presented by Kilcar was never passed on to NC as the CCC were obligated to do. This is bread and butter stuff for supposedly experienced officials and was why the Ulster hearing referred the whole case back to the CCC in Donegal when NC brought an appeal to them.
Then for the County Board to drag their heels and kick the can down the road for long enough that both clubs had changes of management and club boards is just inecusable.
There were three possible sanctions. One was a fine of €5000. The second was a replay of the game and the third was that the title be awarded to Kilcar. Because the County Board were so tawrdy in their approach to the whole affair, it eventually removed the option of a replay. This left two possible other sanctions. The CCC chose to fine NC €5000 with the money going to the County Board who were instrumental in cocking up the appeals process!
And so the club that broke no rule in this final ended up with ... nothing!

fionmaccumhaill (Donegal) - Posts: 45 - 10/02/2022 14:10:09    2399661

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Replying To naomh_conaill_4:  "We should appeal the 5k fine now ;)

All joking aside this was dealt with abysmally and the county board are know for this. Kilcar were in their right to appeal same way we were in our right back in 2013 with Glenswilly and both times it was dealt with horribly. The county board need refreshing and need younger people in there make it more streamlined and start making them selves looking good.

One thing I will say is apart of Kilcars appeal was that a player came on from the dugout rather than the half way line is a bit of a joke. Every team including Kilcar can be proven Guilty of this throughout every single year."
You're doing yourself no favours implicating Kilcar in this debacle. As a neutral they are the only party emerging from the fiasco with some dignity. NC broke the rules, Kilcar didn't.
However you are correct about the county board. They are taking the county backwards.

themaddog (Wicklow) - Posts: 166 - 10/02/2022 14:25:21    2399663

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Replying To DLlegends:  "What's are best back 6?

We haven't had a settled back 6 for years.

MC Fadden Ferry, McCole, MC Meniman

Eoin Ban, MC Clenaghan, Ward

Hard to know really. Switch Ward and McFF.

I would like to see our back six scoring more, they get into some great positions."
I think we'd be better if our back 6 were better defenders and didn't give up so many goal chances. Generally, we get enough scores in games, the problem is we concede too much

greenfan (Donegal) - Posts: 705 - 10/02/2022 14:42:52    2399666

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Replying To greenfan:  "I think we'd be better if our back 6 were better defenders and didn't give up so many goal chances. Generally, we get enough scores in games, the problem is we concede too much"
We will see how the rest of the year goes but in all honesty, 4 points in a half of football against Kildare is not a defensive problem. We let in a soft goal from a ball dropped short but I would blame Patton for not coming on that goal, he had a scare a minute before where the ball bounced in the square from a long ball in and came off the post then. Outside of those 2 moments in the first half against Kildare, I don't remember any clear goal chances?

Mayo had some good chances however I thought McCole for example did excellently in some one-on-one defensive situations against them. However missing a penalty and having 3 other clear goal chances missed against them is not a defensive issue.

I think we are improving on the defensive side of things however I think it is a bit too easy a criticism for Donegal. As far as I see it, when the game has been in the melting pot the past few years, we have failed to get the scores to settle things. Going 20, 25, 30 minutes without a score means you'll not dine at the top table, and that's been all too frequent an occurrence. It happened again against Kildare, 4 points in a half of football from a dominant position. 1 point in the final 20 minutes against Mayo, 4 in the 2nd half as well. Conditions played a part against Mayo but these are not defensive problems. As I say we'll see how the rest of the year goes but that has to improve or we're going nowhere.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 10/02/2022 15:37:56    2399679

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "We will see how the rest of the year goes but in all honesty, 4 points in a half of football against Kildare is not a defensive problem. We let in a soft goal from a ball dropped short but I would blame Patton for not coming on that goal, he had a scare a minute before where the ball bounced in the square from a long ball in and came off the post then. Outside of those 2 moments in the first half against Kildare, I don't remember any clear goal chances?

Mayo had some good chances however I thought McCole for example did excellently in some one-on-one defensive situations against them. However missing a penalty and having 3 other clear goal chances missed against them is not a defensive issue.

I think we are improving on the defensive side of things however I think it is a bit too easy a criticism for Donegal. As far as I see it, when the game has been in the melting pot the past few years, we have failed to get the scores to settle things. Going 20, 25, 30 minutes without a score means you'll not dine at the top table, and that's been all too frequent an occurrence. It happened again against Kildare, 4 points in a half of football from a dominant position. 1 point in the final 20 minutes against Mayo, 4 in the 2nd half as well. Conditions played a part against Mayo but these are not defensive problems. As I say we'll see how the rest of the year goes but that has to improve or we're going nowhere."
This narrative that all our problems are defensive does not stand up to scrutiny.I think this arose after we conceded 4 goals to monaghan in the league.In what other games have we conceded many goals.I don't rememember many.In the big games we lost eg Mayo in Castlebar and the Ulster final against Cavan it was our failure to get scores that beat us.I think we got 3 points against Cavan in the second half and against Mayo we had a lot of terrible misses in the second half.In the other big game against Tyrone last year there is a fair chance we would have won but for the missed penalty and the sending off.If we had avoided one of the two mishaps we still probably would have won.I am not saying our defence is perfect but is lazy analysis to say that is our only problem.I would like to see more scores coming from our backline.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1179 - 10/02/2022 16:28:59    2399696

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As a few folks have mentioned you can definitely see improvement from mccole and his reading of the game. You could see at times against Kildare as well. There's still though room for improvement and developing defenders even more.

To me some of what let's Donegal is game management. That was very evident against mayo.

I had no real problem with that though against Kildare. Even with the wind kildare were quite defensive and you'd be a little silly to attack with too much gusto against the wind when leading. Unlike against mayo when Kildare did push up Donegal did go long.

Also I wouldn't necessarily worry about 4 points in the second. Kildare only got 5 with the wind. Kerry with their superstar attack only got one point in the second half against Dublin.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 895 - 10/02/2022 20:21:05    2399732

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Replying To fionmaccumhaill:  "How this "substitute" was spirited in on the day was no joke. His proposed arrival into the field of play was not noted to his secretary as is mandated in the rules. Nor did said secretary make out a substitute slip for him which is required. He never went near the substitute desk which he is obligated to do when such a table exists at a game of this magnitude. No substitute slip was passed to the third official for checking which again is required.
Instead he was spirited into the field of play from the other side of the NC dugout far from the substitute table where he was obliged to come in from. So he played for nearly all of the extra time despite no record of his being there on the field of play at all. NC did bring on three "official" substitutes alright during extra time but he was not one of them. He by the rules of the CLG did not exist at all.
But going through the debacle of the appeals process that followed, one would really have to question the CCC of the Donegal County Board as to their complete mishandling of the original hearing where the video evidence as presented by Kilcar was never passed on to NC as the CCC were obligated to do. This is bread and butter stuff for supposedly experienced officials and was why the Ulster hearing referred the whole case back to the CCC in Donegal when NC brought an appeal to them.
Then for the County Board to drag their heels and kick the can down the road for long enough that both clubs had changes of management and club boards is just inecusable.
There were three possible sanctions. One was a fine of €5000. The second was a replay of the game and the third was that the title be awarded to Kilcar. Because the County Board were so tawrdy in their approach to the whole affair, it eventually removed the option of a replay. This left two possible other sanctions. The CCC chose to fine NC €5000 with the money going to the County Board who were instrumental in cocking up the appeals process!
And so the club that broke no rule in this final ended up with ... nothing!"
Sorry, that reads like a laughable conspiracy theory to me.

If I remember correctly you wanted Naomh Conaill's head on a plate from the start in your initial posts too. So I would take your above story stated as fact with a large pinch of salt

Nevertheless it did appear the rules were broken and the County board definitely made a mess of it. But then again it was 2020s county final played 2 weeks before the 2021 competition started. There were a lot of mitigating reasons why it was a mess.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 306 - 11/02/2022 12:06:02    2399781

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Replying To Al_Maguire:  "Sorry, that reads like a laughable conspiracy theory to me.

If I remember correctly you wanted Naomh Conaill's head on a plate from the start in your initial posts too. So I would take your above story stated as fact with a large pinch of salt

Nevertheless it did appear the rules were broken and the County board definitely made a mess of it. But then again it was 2020s county final played 2 weeks before the 2021 competition started. There were a lot of mitigating reasons why it was a mess."
What I set out was what happened. You can put as much salt on it as you like but those were the facts as transpired and it would be important to stick to those facts. It might be laughable to you but exactly what transpired that evening. There is video evidence that clearly shows what transpired. There was also no slip for this substitution as required. Four changes were made by NC in extra time for which there was three substitution slips.
Where did I state that I wanted NCs head on a plate? I have no truck with NC or any other club in the county for that matter. I just laid out the facts as to what what transpired with regard to that illegal change made by NC at the start of extra time where the clear and unanbiguous rules as laid down by the CLG were clearly broken.
Kilcar appealed and when the evidence for this break of substitution rules was brought before the original CCC board, they found that said rules had been clearly breached and ordered a replay. When NC appealed the decision to Ulster (as was their right) the case was referred back to the Donegal County Board. This was because the original CCC had not passed on relevant evidence to NC as submitted by Kilcar which is required in an appeals process.
When the second CCC panel were finally convened after a long delay, they again, on foot of the evidence as presented found against NC again and fined them €5000 but allowed them to keep the 2020 championship. To my knowledge NC have not appealed this decision and so accept it.
I just feel that the decision as made sets a very dangerous precedent and this goes for every club in our county and country. Surely if you break a playing rule or rules which clearly gives you an advantage, whether you do so intentionally or otherwise, you should forfeit the game. Only in this way can we make sure that all clubs do their damndest to stick to the rules so that both teams are on a level playing field in every way.

fionmaccumhaill (Donegal) - Posts: 45 - 11/02/2022 14:37:59    2399819

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Replying To Al_Maguire:  "Sorry, that reads like a laughable conspiracy theory to me.

If I remember correctly you wanted Naomh Conaill's head on a plate from the start in your initial posts too. So I would take your above story stated as fact with a large pinch of salt

Nevertheless it did appear the rules were broken and the County board definitely made a mess of it. But then again it was 2020s county final played 2 weeks before the 2021 competition started. There were a lot of mitigating reasons why it was a mess."
That post is not a "laughable conspiracy theory" it does in fact express the facts of the matter. I can well understand why you would find it hard to believe that the county board could have come up with the decision it did but that is how it went down.
Glenties get to keep a tainted championship won under the most dubious of circumstances. The county board get €5,000, all those expenses have to be paid for somehow, and Kilcar get shafted.
The simple truth is that Kilcar are a small club and have no clout. If this was St Eunans you can be damn sure the outcome would have been different but there we have it.
I have to be honest as well and say that I am disappointed that Kilcar didn't appeal to Ulster, if only to show our shower of a county board up for the disgrace they are, but I can understand why they let it go after so long.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 11/02/2022 14:54:21    2399828

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Replying To MuckrossHead:  "That post is not a "laughable conspiracy theory" it does in fact express the facts of the matter. I can well understand why you would find it hard to believe that the county board could have come up with the decision it did but that is how it went down.
Glenties get to keep a tainted championship won under the most dubious of circumstances. The county board get €5,000, all those expenses have to be paid for somehow, and Kilcar get shafted.
The simple truth is that Kilcar are a small club and have no clout. If this was St Eunans you can be damn sure the outcome would have been different but there we have it.
I have to be honest as well and say that I am disappointed that Kilcar didn't appeal to Ulster, if only to show our shower of a county board up for the disgrace they are, but I can understand why they let it go after so long."
I know it's off topic but what the story with the appointment of a manager up there. I read Martin and mark mc Hugh we're in for it but from reading yesterday s paper. Last years reserve manager got the job. . Obviously Mc Hugh's must have pulled out.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2643 - 11/02/2022 15:10:24    2399833

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Replying To MuckrossHead:  "That post is not a "laughable conspiracy theory" it does in fact express the facts of the matter. I can well understand why you would find it hard to believe that the county board could have come up with the decision it did but that is how it went down.
Glenties get to keep a tainted championship won under the most dubious of circumstances. The county board get €5,000, all those expenses have to be paid for somehow, and Kilcar get shafted.
The simple truth is that Kilcar are a small club and have no clout. If this was St Eunans you can be damn sure the outcome would have been different but there we have it.
I have to be honest as well and say that I am disappointed that Kilcar didn't appeal to Ulster, if only to show our shower of a county board up for the disgrace they are, but I can understand why they let it go after so long."
Hi Muckross

The part of that post I consider a laughable conspiracy theory is the insinuation, almost accusation that Naomh Conaill knowingly and purposefully tried to con the officials throughout all of extra time.

So basically the poster is saying NC purposefully cheated.

There is a big difference between infringing a rule unintentionally/in the heat of the moment as I think most people think is the case and going out to cheat.

What's laughable is the idea that NC would risk trying something as stupid as that and not believe they wouldn't get caught.

The game was in the melting pot, they were county champions and their management team is certainly not stupid.

It makes no sense and is actually a defamatory if not even a libellous insinuation.

It also comes across as delusions of grandeur that NC would need to resort to that to win (not like they were way behind)

I have read your posts on the matter and while they are partial they are at least more balanced on the topic than the other fella, and his strangely high level of knowledge of what happened on the night.

I tend to take 'facts' from such a partial angle as Mr McCumhaill with a pinch of salt. Be good to hear the 'facts,' from the other team too.

As so far this has been a one side only presentation of 'facts'

I get that Kilcar are aggreived and I know the whole thing was handled poorly. But the narrative is now going from

Did NC break the rules
To NC did break the rules (fair enough)
To NC plotted to break the rules.

And I think that's a bad place to go with this for Kilcar people.

It's the county board that shafted you.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 306 - 11/02/2022 21:03:49    2399877

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Replying To Al_Maguire:  "Hi Muckross

The part of that post I consider a laughable conspiracy theory is the insinuation, almost accusation that Naomh Conaill knowingly and purposefully tried to con the officials throughout all of extra time.

So basically the poster is saying NC purposefully cheated.

There is a big difference between infringing a rule unintentionally/in the heat of the moment as I think most people think is the case and going out to cheat.

What's laughable is the idea that NC would risk trying something as stupid as that and not believe they wouldn't get caught.

The game was in the melting pot, they were county champions and their management team is certainly not stupid.

It makes no sense and is actually a defamatory if not even a libellous insinuation.

It also comes across as delusions of grandeur that NC would need to resort to that to win (not like they were way behind)

I have read your posts on the matter and while they are partial they are at least more balanced on the topic than the other fella, and his strangely high level of knowledge of what happened on the night.

I tend to take 'facts' from such a partial angle as Mr McCumhaill with a pinch of salt. Be good to hear the 'facts,' from the other team too.

As so far this has been a one side only presentation of 'facts'

I get that Kilcar are aggreived and I know the whole thing was handled poorly. But the narrative is now going from

Did NC break the rules
To NC did break the rules (fair enough)
To NC plotted to break the rules.

And I think that's a bad place to go with this for Kilcar people.

It's the county board that shafted you."
I agree with you 100% I don't think there was an intention to pull a fast one but the video evidence couldn't be clearer.
The county board initially ordered a replay and only for the county board made a balls of things the Ulster Council would have upheld that decision. The county board then dragged it's heels reversed its own decision, shafted Kilcar and pocketed €5,000 in the process.
What saddens me is that relations between the two clubs are damaged severely, I was at the semi final and the scenes after the game both on the field and in the stand were poisonous. Glenties won on the day but in the long run it damaged them because they never turned up for the final.
All in all a sad episode in the history of Donegal GAA but as you say the blame for it lies squarely at the door of the county board.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 12/02/2022 12:47:55    2399910

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Replying To MuckrossHead:  "I agree with you 100% I don't think there was an intention to pull a fast one but the video evidence couldn't be clearer.
The county board initially ordered a replay and only for the county board made a balls of things the Ulster Council would have upheld that decision. The county board then dragged it's heels reversed its own decision, shafted Kilcar and pocketed €5,000 in the process.
What saddens me is that relations between the two clubs are damaged severely, I was at the semi final and the scenes after the game both on the field and in the stand were poisonous. Glenties won on the day but in the long run it damaged them because they never turned up for the final.
All in all a sad episode in the history of Donegal GAA but as you say the blame for it lies squarely at the door of the county board."
Hi MuckrossHead: Yes you are spot on about N Conaill celebrating at final whistle of semi. It was a huge outpouring of emotion from them, as if their whole season was geared on beating Kilcar and nothing else mattered. Looked like they let the occasion get to them. They couldn't get back up to the level or even near the same level again for the final and made St Eunans look like world beaters.

AudiMan (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 12/02/2022 16:15:18    2399930

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Any update on who the new Glenties manager is?

McNulty in Ballyshannon is an interesting one.

St. Nauls manager has walked already, not a good sign.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1263 - 13/02/2022 10:22:27    2400047

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "Any update on who the new Glenties manager is?

McNulty in Ballyshannon is an interesting one.

St. Nauls manager has walked already, not a good sign."
Did they all walk I thought st nauls had a few men looking after them. Don't be surprised to see Reagan back with n Conal. Kilcar manager interesting very quiet from in through. Gaoth dobhar struggling to get a manager too. Managers are getting harder to get too much commitment needed and very hard to get a big back room team.. was talking too a very prominent Gael lately he was telling me that kilcoo and glen maghera were paying huge money to there management teams.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2643 - 13/02/2022 13:06:46    2400081

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Mangers are getting harder to get? the clubs should just follow the county boards lead then and stick with same losing formula. Aim low and you'll never be disappointed seems to be their modus operandi.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3319 - 13/02/2022 13:56:58    2400092

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Replying To rorysboys:  "Did they all walk I thought st nauls had a few men looking after them. Don't be surprised to see Reagan back with n Conal. Kilcar manager interesting very quiet from in through. Gaoth dobhar struggling to get a manager too. Managers are getting harder to get too much commitment needed and very hard to get a big back room team.. was talking too a very prominent Gael lately he was telling me that kilcoo and glen maghera were paying huge money to there management teams."
The main man in Nauls walked after only 5 senior players turned up for training last Sunday. You could hardly blame him.

Kilcar have their previous reserve manager taking the senior reins this year.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1263 - 13/02/2022 18:30:49    2400164

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Mangers are getting harder to get? the clubs should just follow the county boards lead then and stick with same losing formula. Aim low and you'll never be disappointed seems to be their modus operandi."
Ha poor you. Did you ever manage your self. Probably not .

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2643 - 14/02/2022 10:59:01    2400267

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