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The O'Byrne Cup is a perfectly fine challenge-game style competition and is important to iron out creases ahead of the League. The Leinster Championship is an irrelevance. The new manager didn't do himself any harm at all by calling a spade a spade in his recent media interview. Good not to have someone at the helm who lives in cloud cuckoo land wrt the Leinster 'competition'. More of that please.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 157 - 18/01/2022 11:52:23    2395422

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "The O'Byrne Cup is a perfectly fine challenge-game style competition and is important to iron out creases ahead of the League. The Leinster Championship is an irrelevance. The new manager didn't do himself any harm at all by calling a spade a spade in his recent media interview. Good not to have someone at the helm who lives in cloud cuckoo land wrt the Leinster 'competition'. More of that please."
Didn't do himself any harm? Am I missing the scarcasm?

Sure Dennis Connerton and Padraic Davis have said this previously. Everyone knows this, its hardly rocket science. If this is what we are stretching to to find praise for the new manager then God help us.

Mull93 (Longford) - Posts: 80 - 18/01/2022 21:04:31    2395512

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Replying To Mull93:  "Didn't do himself any harm? Am I missing the scarcasm?

Sure Dennis Connerton and Padraic Davis have said this previously. Everyone knows this, its hardly rocket science. If this is what we are stretching to to find praise for the new manager then God help us."
i think your being harsh here, it sounds like you have decided this manager is a failure already. i dont remember any of the previous managers being so strong in their dismissal of leinster in fact most previously spoke of their aim of a run in leinster. davis obviously placed some weight on it given he resigned at the final whistle of the meath game!
i agree with gaaabu, we have gotten what we need out of the o byrne cup, challenge matches nothing more nothing less, time needed in blooding some good young players. the test obviously now lies with the league

slasher9 (Longford) - Posts: 142 - 19/01/2022 10:58:06    2395559

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Replying To slasher9:  "i think your being harsh here, it sounds like you have decided this manager is a failure already. i dont remember any of the previous managers being so strong in their dismissal of leinster in fact most previously spoke of their aim of a run in leinster. davis obviously placed some weight on it given he resigned at the final whistle of the meath game!
i agree with gaaabu, we have gotten what we need out of the o byrne cup, challenge matches nothing more nothing less, time needed in blooding some good young players. the test obviously now lies with the league"
If you talked to either of them then you'd know that were their feelings. Do you seriously think that they ever put more weight on the Leinster Championship then the league? It goes without saying that we should be winning or at least be getting promotion in the League this year. For all the new players that played in the O'Byrne Cup it'll still be the players that Denis and Padraic brought through that make up the vast majority of the team in the league.

Both managers saw the opportunity to win games in championship in order to show progress and show the players and supporters that they could compete at the highest level. Under Denis we had a great win against Meath in Leinster. Under Padraic we had a draw and were unlucky not to beat Kildare in a replay. These results are obviously among other victories against teams in Leinster who are not in Div 1 or 2.

Padraic and Denis are proud Longford men and know how passionate we all are about our county. They knew, as well as every other county did for a long period of time, that we wouldn't realistically beat Dublin so winning Leinster wasn't on the agenda but why should we be afraid of Meath, Kildare or any other county in Leinster for that matter in a knock out game. Is it unrealistic to think we couldn't make a Leinster final if we were the far side of the draw as Dublin. I don't think its that far-fetched.

I can understand why someone from outside the county who wouldn't have thought too much about Longford continues to not think too much about Longford. Maybe its just a lack of experience or know how on his part but if that's as much as positive we can think out of the first 3 games then it'll be short and disappointing year.

Mull93 (Longford) - Posts: 80 - 19/01/2022 11:42:17    2395569

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Replying To Mull93:  "If you talked to either of them then you'd know that were their feelings. Do you seriously think that they ever put more weight on the Leinster Championship then the league? It goes without saying that we should be winning or at least be getting promotion in the League this year. For all the new players that played in the O'Byrne Cup it'll still be the players that Denis and Padraic brought through that make up the vast majority of the team in the league.

Both managers saw the opportunity to win games in championship in order to show progress and show the players and supporters that they could compete at the highest level. Under Denis we had a great win against Meath in Leinster. Under Padraic we had a draw and were unlucky not to beat Kildare in a replay. These results are obviously among other victories against teams in Leinster who are not in Div 1 or 2.

Padraic and Denis are proud Longford men and know how passionate we all are about our county. They knew, as well as every other county did for a long period of time, that we wouldn't realistically beat Dublin so winning Leinster wasn't on the agenda but why should we be afraid of Meath, Kildare or any other county in Leinster for that matter in a knock out game. Is it unrealistic to think we couldn't make a Leinster final if we were the far side of the draw as Dublin. I don't think its that far-fetched.

I can understand why someone from outside the county who wouldn't have thought too much about Longford continues to not think too much about Longford. Maybe its just a lack of experience or know how on his part but if that's as much as positive we can think out of the first 3 games then it'll be short and disappointing year."
I think the difference here is that the new guy is outright calling Leinster Championship an irrelevance. He isn't saying that it still holds value in having a two or three game run and gaining a sense of progress by beating half-decent sides in a knock out competition before eventually getting pummeled in some bizarre GAA snakes and ladders. He is outright saying that the competition is now irrelevant and that he and his team will regard it as such. I don't believe prior managers had that strength of view on it. IMO prior managers held ambitions of getting to the final of a competition that Longford has reached the final of twice in 153 years of Leinster Championship Finals and won once in 1968..... fifty four years ago!!! That chasing of that ghost needed a firmer line drawn under it than I had heard in the past. All the old mindset was doing was setting the teams ambition at possibly maybe reaching a final we have not reached 151 times out of 153 before, hence the carrot is not on the end of the stick in any practical sense. You can't build a team up on that model anymore. Winning an odd knock-out game against the Meaths or Kildares of the world is not a sustainable target to keep players or fans engaged. The league has the goal of promotion and maybe winning the division and lifting a trophy (neither of which we will do this season, but which we have the potential to do as progress and belief builds). That is a pathway with an end-goal which isn't some mythical 1968 re-imagining. That is why the new manager called the league 'our championship'. The hammerings at the end of that Leinster Championship rainbow were (and are) inflicting more damage on the Longford cause than any progress-building could offset. So he is right to be so candid about the irrelevance of that competition to him and his players. I don't know if he will be a good manager, but I credit him for his views on this.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 157 - 20/01/2022 13:59:56    2395747

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "I think the difference here is that the new guy is outright calling Leinster Championship an irrelevance. He isn't saying that it still holds value in having a two or three game run and gaining a sense of progress by beating half-decent sides in a knock out competition before eventually getting pummeled in some bizarre GAA snakes and ladders. He is outright saying that the competition is now irrelevant and that he and his team will regard it as such. I don't believe prior managers had that strength of view on it. IMO prior managers held ambitions of getting to the final of a competition that Longford has reached the final of twice in 153 years of Leinster Championship Finals and won once in 1968..... fifty four years ago!!! That chasing of that ghost needed a firmer line drawn under it than I had heard in the past. All the old mindset was doing was setting the teams ambition at possibly maybe reaching a final we have not reached 151 times out of 153 before, hence the carrot is not on the end of the stick in any practical sense. You can't build a team up on that model anymore. Winning an odd knock-out game against the Meaths or Kildares of the world is not a sustainable target to keep players or fans engaged. The league has the goal of promotion and maybe winning the division and lifting a trophy (neither of which we will do this season, but which we have the potential to do as progress and belief builds). That is a pathway with an end-goal which isn't some mythical 1968 re-imagining. That is why the new manager called the league 'our championship'. The hammerings at the end of that Leinster Championship rainbow were (and are) inflicting more damage on the Longford cause than any progress-building could offset. So he is right to be so candid about the irrelevance of that competition to him and his players. I don't know if he will be a good manager, but I credit him for his views on this."
Padraic and Denis are two straight men. Both call a spade a spade, There is no beating around the bush with either. They know, as does every other intercounty manager, what Leinster is.
They also have lots of experience and are not coming into intercounty after one year at club management making claims that will have a negative effect on players psych. They know that you can't create a mindset that once the league is over then the year is over. Any player thinking of travelling isn't going to hang around after the league and others might just drop off the panel regardless of how the league goes as they have been told there is no value in the championship.
Progress through the leagues is important and there is no point thinking otherwise. You must be in the top two divisions, realistically Div. 1, to have any championship ambitions but when you are only guaranteed 9 competitive games a year you don't write off the championship games. You try to get as many of those games as possible to learn and grow.
I can't understand how you can give him credit for a view that seems to lack any understanding of how to progress a Longford team that has potential.
As for not winning the league this year, why not? We have been consistently mid table over the last 5 years. Massively unlucky in 2016 when we were level on points but lost out on score difference with Clare who got promoted. 3rd again in 2018.4th in 2020. We have been consistently there or thereabouts. We have lost a few starting players over the 5 years but we have brought in plenty of good young lads.

Mull93 (Longford) - Posts: 80 - 20/01/2022 21:01:15    2395811

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Replying To Mull93:  "Padraic and Denis are two straight men. Both call a spade a spade, There is no beating around the bush with either. They know, as does every other intercounty manager, what Leinster is.
They also have lots of experience and are not coming into intercounty after one year at club management making claims that will have a negative effect on players psych. They know that you can't create a mindset that once the league is over then the year is over. Any player thinking of travelling isn't going to hang around after the league and others might just drop off the panel regardless of how the league goes as they have been told there is no value in the championship.
Progress through the leagues is important and there is no point thinking otherwise. You must be in the top two divisions, realistically Div. 1, to have any championship ambitions but when you are only guaranteed 9 competitive games a year you don't write off the championship games. You try to get as many of those games as possible to learn and grow.
I can't understand how you can give him credit for a view that seems to lack any understanding of how to progress a Longford team that has potential.
As for not winning the league this year, why not? We have been consistently mid table over the last 5 years. Massively unlucky in 2016 when we were level on points but lost out on score difference with Clare who got promoted. 3rd again in 2018.4th in 2020. We have been consistently there or thereabouts. We have lost a few starting players over the 5 years but we have brought in plenty of good young lads."
You are aware that there is a new championship structure this year... right? The year is far from over after the league, the Tailteann Cup kicks in from May to July giving Longford more games and the chance of actually winning something.

The 'Green' proposal (which is pretty much guaranteed to be approved at this stage) will mean Longford plays in the League as normal with the ultimate carrot of winning the division or gaining promotion which in turn influences whether Longford pays in Tailteann or Sam Maguire.

Since our last promotion from Division 4 in 2015, Longford finished the league as follows...

4th in 2020
5th in 2019
3rd in 2018
6th in 2017
4th in 2016

That is an average of 4th place (mid table) across the 5 years. I have seen nothing to suggest we will buck that trend this year. The standard of football in last years club championship and in the county final in particular was poor. It is right to have the ambition to improve and get to the division final and maybe secure promotion, and this year is unusual because better teams are in Div 4. But why would we want to get whipped in Division 2 in 2023 in year two of a rebuild process where none of the foundations required to build towards that level of competition is in place yet, not even close. We need to think more long term and box a little more clever if we want sustained improvement.

Once we are inevitably out of the Leinster Championship (just like every year for the past 54 years in a row!!) we then have a competition to compete in which, unlike qualifiers of the past, we can aspire to win. The Tailteann Cup.

Tailteann Cup will have 3 games in the group stage, then Quarters, Semis and Final. So potential for 6 games from May onwards with the goal of winning the second tier All Ireland Championship series by the end. We might not win it, but it is a realistic ambition, not the annual fairytale memory-loss-sponsored nonsense we encounter year after year in Leinster. The Leinster Championship distraction in the middle between the League and Tailteann Cup will probably be used by the new boss to try things out in a knockout environment ahead of the Tailteann Cup, but with a test environment mindset, not with a view to it being a serious competition to win (reference the past 54 years in a row). When enough teams no longer take Leinster seriously post the arrival of the Tailteann Cup, the provincials will eventually die the death they deserve.

Longford can look forward this year to building via 7 league games and the potential for 6 Tailteann Cup games and have a stretch target of title wins in both without it being fantasy. Leinster won't feature in any realistic ambitions. Thank God the era of wishful thinking and batterings in Leinster is coming to an end, and being replaced by something which can enable growth, not least for the players sake.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 157 - 22/01/2022 18:30:09    2395971

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "You are aware that there is a new championship structure this year... right? The year is far from over after the league, the Tailteann Cup kicks in from May to July giving Longford more games and the chance of actually winning something.

The 'Green' proposal (which is pretty much guaranteed to be approved at this stage) will mean Longford plays in the League as normal with the ultimate carrot of winning the division or gaining promotion which in turn influences whether Longford pays in Tailteann or Sam Maguire.

Since our last promotion from Division 4 in 2015, Longford finished the league as follows...

4th in 2020
5th in 2019
3rd in 2018
6th in 2017
4th in 2016

That is an average of 4th place (mid table) across the 5 years. I have seen nothing to suggest we will buck that trend this year. The standard of football in last years club championship and in the county final in particular was poor. It is right to have the ambition to improve and get to the division final and maybe secure promotion, and this year is unusual because better teams are in Div 4. But why would we want to get whipped in Division 2 in 2023 in year two of a rebuild process where none of the foundations required to build towards that level of competition is in place yet, not even close. We need to think more long term and box a little more clever if we want sustained improvement.

Once we are inevitably out of the Leinster Championship (just like every year for the past 54 years in a row!!) we then have a competition to compete in which, unlike qualifiers of the past, we can aspire to win. The Tailteann Cup.

Tailteann Cup will have 3 games in the group stage, then Quarters, Semis and Final. So potential for 6 games from May onwards with the goal of winning the second tier All Ireland Championship series by the end. We might not win it, but it is a realistic ambition, not the annual fairytale memory-loss-sponsored nonsense we encounter year after year in Leinster. The Leinster Championship distraction in the middle between the League and Tailteann Cup will probably be used by the new boss to try things out in a knockout environment ahead of the Tailteann Cup, but with a test environment mindset, not with a view to it being a serious competition to win (reference the past 54 years in a row). When enough teams no longer take Leinster seriously post the arrival of the Tailteann Cup, the provincials will eventually die the death they deserve.

Longford can look forward this year to building via 7 league games and the potential for 6 Tailteann Cup games and have a stretch target of title wins in both without it being fantasy. Leinster won't feature in any realistic ambitions. Thank God the era of wishful thinking and batterings in Leinster is coming to an end, and being replaced by something which can enable growth, not least for the players sake."
I'm more than aware of the Tailteann Cup but you're getting ahead of yourself on the format. This years format is knockout, the "Green Proposal" which it appearing likely and will have 3 group games, will come into play in 2023.

When we are in the Tailteann Cup then I see no reason why we shouldn't have ambitions to win it. I do agree that its a more worthwhile pursuit then a trip around the country with the qualifiers.

I've no great love more Leinster either. I don't think anyone does. The point you are missing is that its not the competition itself but the fact that you can't have a mindset that you don't care. When players are at peak fitness and at a time when you should have a team tactically tuned.

The reality is Longford will most likely be in the Tailteann Cup and if they don't win a few games in Leinster then they'll be looking for challenges. There is more to be gained from playing at least two decent games in Leinster then there is to be beaten by Westmeath at the end of April in a local derby and then go looking for challenge games for the next three weeks. It'd also do Longford no harm to get to a Leinster semi-final, the more often you play in semi-finals and finals the more you learn. Some lessons are tougher than others but I'd far prefer to learn from a semi-final defeat against what would most likely be Dublin, Meath or Kildare then a defeat in a local derby because we were told it didn't matter. Westmeath got to two Leinster Finals in 2015 and 2016, they beat Meath and Kildare in the respective years. I don't think they'll be saying to themselves that Leinster doesn't matter, lets threat it like a challenge and try out a few lads.

Mull93 (Longford) - Posts: 80 - 22/01/2022 21:03:29    2395997

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Saw a team sheet for Longford hurlers against Louth. Are there hurling teams in Carrickedmond, Killashee, Young Grattans and Sean Connollys now ? That would be a major increase in the number of clubs there
Where are St Brendan's from ? 2 lads from Ringtown in Westmeath too on the panel and a lad from Dublin. Interesting

Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - Posts: 920 - 23/01/2022 14:20:27    2396054

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Replying To Jack_Sparrow:  "Saw a team sheet for Longford hurlers against Louth. Are there hurling teams in Carrickedmond, Killashee, Young Grattans and Sean Connollys now ? That would be a major increase in the number of clubs there
Where are St Brendan's from ? 2 lads from Ringtown in Westmeath too on the panel and a lad from Dublin. Interesting"
There are only three hurling clubs in Longford... Clonguish Gaels, Longford Slashers and Wolfe Tones (Mostrim). I believe Kenagh also has an underage hurling club, but not at adult level. The team sheet seems to reflect the players 'home' GAA club rather than the hurling club they play for.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 157 - 23/01/2022 20:22:33    2396122

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "There are only three hurling clubs in Longford... Clonguish Gaels, Longford Slashers and Wolfe Tones (Mostrim). I believe Kenagh also has an underage hurling club, but not at adult level. The team sheet seems to reflect the players 'home' GAA club rather than the hurling club they play for."
Yeah this seems to be the case when our hurlers play away games but not for home games? St. Brendan's is probably Ballygar. Carricededmond & Sean Connolly's lads hurl for Wolfe Tones. Grattans players hurl with Slashers (same parish) as do most Killashee players.

When looking at a county hurling programme, it should be irrelevant as to who plays football for who. It certainly wouldn't happen in Westmeath @Jack_Sparrow.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4025 - 24/01/2022 16:36:52    2396263

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Replying To keeper7:  "Yeah this seems to be the case when our hurlers play away games but not for home games? St. Brendan's is probably Ballygar. Carricededmond & Sean Connolly's lads hurl for Wolfe Tones. Grattans players hurl with Slashers (same parish) as do most Killashee players.

When looking at a county hurling programme, it should be irrelevant as to who plays football for who. It certainly wouldn't happen in Westmeath @Jack_Sparrow."
Yep the club they hurl for should be the club displayed on the match programme. I've never understood why Longford does it the way they do.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 157 - 25/01/2022 18:18:43    2396456

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Yep the club they hurl for should be the club displayed on the match programme. I've never understood why Longford does it the way they do."
That's ridiculous

Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - Posts: 920 - 27/01/2022 21:01:11    2396789

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Mickey Quinn announced as captain. Team V Limerick
[url=]https://twitter.com/officialldgaa/status/1487067735930642435?s=21

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4025 - 29/01/2022 13:11:46    2396956

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Disastrous first half.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4025 - 29/01/2022 18:11:49    2397021

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We'll need to concentrate on Division 3 now!

He got the starting team all wrong and too slow to make changes.

Robbie Smyth should have started. He is arguably the best forward in the county. He has to start all the big games.

Darragh Doherty was possibly the stand out forward in the senior championship in 2021 and played well in O'Byrne Cup, how did he not start?

I'm sure the two lads were scratching their heads in wonder on the bench.

How some players were put in certain positions I don't know. I also don't know how all the "ordinary joes" in the stand could see the issues and the "manager" didn't make any meaningful changes until half time.

This wasn't a case of losing a game because we hadn't got the players. It was a case of losing a game because the strongest team didn't start and we didn't have players in the right positions.

In fairness to the players they never gave up, they kept battling but when you are up against it if management don't get their part right.

Louth is a must win now. We have a good record against Louth, its at home and they are coming up from Division 4. No reason now that the strongest team available can't start and have the players in the correct positions.

Mull93 (Longford) - Posts: 80 - 30/01/2022 09:51:09    2397098

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Replying To Mull93:  "We'll need to concentrate on Division 3 now!

He got the starting team all wrong and too slow to make changes.

Robbie Smyth should have started. He is arguably the best forward in the county. He has to start all the big games.

Darragh Doherty was possibly the stand out forward in the senior championship in 2021 and played well in O'Byrne Cup, how did he not start?

I'm sure the two lads were scratching their heads in wonder on the bench.

How some players were put in certain positions I don't know. I also don't know how all the "ordinary joes" in the stand could see the issues and the "manager" didn't make any meaningful changes until half time.

This wasn't a case of losing a game because we hadn't got the players. It was a case of losing a game because the strongest team didn't start and we didn't have players in the right positions.

In fairness to the players they never gave up, they kept battling but when you are up against it if management don't get their part right.

Louth is a must win now. We have a good record against Louth, its at home and they are coming up from Division 4. No reason now that the strongest team available can't start and have the players in the correct positions."
i wouldnt say he was the standout forward but i agree how he wasnt starting i cant understand. the selection off the team still has me scratching my head, this is a terrible start and straight away we are under pressure. players were far from blameless too though, so many times limerick players waltzed through and no effort made to get a decent tackle in. we were cleaned in the diamond area.
any word on smyth and gallagher? hoping nothing too serious. smyth has to start when fit

slasher9 (Longford) - Posts: 142 - 30/01/2022 11:14:15    2397125

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Replying To Mull93:  "We'll need to concentrate on Division 3 now!

He got the starting team all wrong and too slow to make changes.

Robbie Smyth should have started. He is arguably the best forward in the county. He has to start all the big games.

Darragh Doherty was possibly the stand out forward in the senior championship in 2021 and played well in O'Byrne Cup, how did he not start?

I'm sure the two lads were scratching their heads in wonder on the bench.

How some players were put in certain positions I don't know. I also don't know how all the "ordinary joes" in the stand could see the issues and the "manager" didn't make any meaningful changes until half time.

This wasn't a case of losing a game because we hadn't got the players. It was a case of losing a game because the strongest team didn't start and we didn't have players in the right positions.

In fairness to the players they never gave up, they kept battling but when you are up against it if management don't get their part right.

Louth is a must win now. We have a good record against Louth, its at home and they are coming up from Division 4. No reason now that the strongest team available can't start and have the players in the correct positions."
Started Quinn in the forwards. How many managers now have tried this & it hasn't worked for any of them?

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4025 - 30/01/2022 11:24:16    2397130

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Replying To Mull93:  "We'll need to concentrate on Division 3 now!

He got the starting team all wrong and too slow to make changes.

Robbie Smyth should have started. He is arguably the best forward in the county. He has to start all the big games.

Darragh Doherty was possibly the stand out forward in the senior championship in 2021 and played well in O'Byrne Cup, how did he not start?

I'm sure the two lads were scratching their heads in wonder on the bench.

How some players were put in certain positions I don't know. I also don't know how all the "ordinary joes" in the stand could see the issues and the "manager" didn't make any meaningful changes until half time.

This wasn't a case of losing a game because we hadn't got the players. It was a case of losing a game because the strongest team didn't start and we didn't have players in the right positions.

In fairness to the players they never gave up, they kept battling but when you are up against it if management don't get their part right.

Louth is a must win now. We have a good record against Louth, its at home and they are coming up from Division 4. No reason now that the strongest team available can't start and have the players in the correct positions."
Do we really have a good record against Louth? Maybe in last couple of games, but not overall.

This century we played Louth 4 times in Leinster Championship.
Won 2, Lost 2.

This century we played Louth 6 times in League.
Won 2, Lost 4.

I'm not convinced we can beat Louth. If we get more than two wins in the division I will be pleasantly surprised. Our average achievement of ~ 4th place finish in Division 3 since 2016 might be a stretch to achieve this season. Will struggle to stay up IMO. It is part decisions on sideline for sure, but also part not good enough on the field. I struggled with the optimism around the place about this season. Football quality regressed in the county in last few years. The historically mega annihilation by Meath is still fresh in the mind. I will be delighted to be proved wrong next day out.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 157 - 30/01/2022 12:32:46    2397144

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Replying To Jack_Sparrow:  "That's ridiculous"
It's the club that the player is registered with. All Wolfe Tones players are registered by Mostrim. The Sean Connollys and Carrickedmond lads that have derogation to play Hurling with Wolfe Tones are similarly registered by the home club.

Therein2010 (Longford) - Posts: 28 - 31/01/2022 15:54:40    2397528

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