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Replying To meathbasedfan: "honestly i'm sure, but there is the numbers there for another good sized club." I am unsure if there is a need for a 3rd club, just maybe stricter rules regarding who can join in where depending on school they went to or where they grew up. And definitely no lads across the bridge joining up bar exceptional circumstances. That will bring a bit of parity, other than that you cannot punish Marys for being the county town, they were always the county town but they were not always kingpins of Leitrim football, blame stupid government policies
gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 538 - 04/09/2024 14:35:34
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Replying To eslinchickenmaryland: "The wild thing about the talk of amalgamations is that Leitrim population is at its highest in over 60 years and all these new people haven't just gone to Carrick. Something has gone wrong somewhere. People not being able to get planning permission in their own rural parishes has been a major issue not just for GAA, but for national schools, post offices etc." True.. be interesting to see what the age profile is.. then vs now. As mentioned before, I don't think young people see it as the bee all and end all like what it was in the past.
As for Marys as king pins.. they never were and aren't now either. I hear the last few years about them dominating. I'll believe it when I see it as they have never put back to back senior titles yet.
leitrimlad15 (Leitrim) - Posts: 87 - 04/09/2024 15:06:55
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Replying To gaelsboy: "I am unsure if there is a need for a 3rd club, just maybe stricter rules regarding who can join in where depending on school they went to or where they grew up. And definitely no lads across the bridge joining up bar exceptional circumstances. That will bring a bit of parity, other than that you cannot punish Marys for being the county town, they were always the county town but they were not always kingpins of Leitrim football, blame stupid government policies" i don't think anyone wants to punish Mary's as you suggest. but the reality is they have so many players at underage winning a lot, but most of them won't play senior football as they simply have too many coming through. who'd have thought 30 years ago Leitrim Village would go it alone considering the important players they had playing for Mary's but yet it happened and could happen again in some other area of Kiltoghert. its only an observation. i'd also imagine Leitrim Gaels will give Marys a serious rattle in ballinamore on saturday.
meathbasedfan (Leitrim) - Posts: 97 - 04/09/2024 15:26:36
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Replying To gaelsboy: "I am unsure if there is a need for a 3rd club, just maybe stricter rules regarding who can join in where depending on school they went to or where they grew up. And definitely no lads across the bridge joining up bar exceptional circumstances. That will bring a bit of parity, other than that you cannot punish Marys for being the county town, they were always the county town but they were not always kingpins of Leitrim football, blame stupid government policies" No lads from across the bridge? You want lads going to school in Leitrim and very probably have Leitrim parentage to play in Roscommon?
You do realise this then knocks them out from playing for Leitrim (it's not as if we have a big pool to choose from!!!!). There are at least two from Cortober who played Leitrim underage in very recent years with potential for higher and at least one senior player from a while back.
IronSleeve (Leitrim) - Posts: 6 - 04/09/2024 16:35:52
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Replying To meathbasedfan: "you would imagine with Drumreilly in dire straits for playing numbers and not many coming through over the next few years, that they will probably have to join the willies. also Aughnasheelin aren't in great shape either you could see that St. Brigids amalgamation going right through all grades from underage to senior. and why not i suppose.
Also the geographical pick St. Marys have is crazy. am i right in saying they have 5 primary schools in their area, thats a major issue too. but undoubtedly won't be tackled. not so long ago they had Leitrim Village and Marys still have some players from there i beileve." 4 in Kiltoghert parish - 2 in Carrick, Kilnagross and Leitrim. Leitrim Gaels have the latter and Kilnagross could be either though Mary's have the upper hand there, possibly due to clubmen living locally. And Eslin could make a play for Kilnagross if they had an underage structure.
IronSleeve (Leitrim) - Posts: 6 - 04/09/2024 16:44:50
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Replying To meathbasedfan: "i don't think anyone wants to punish Mary's as you suggest. but the reality is they have so many players at underage winning a lot, but most of them won't play senior football as they simply have too many coming through. who'd have thought 30 years ago Leitrim Village would go it alone considering the important players they had playing for Mary's but yet it happened and could happen again in some other area of Kiltoghert. its only an observation. i'd also imagine Leitrim Gaels will give Marys a serious rattle in ballinamore on saturday." I think a good observation but the logistics of trying to set up a club from new in a county where some clubs are in danger of going to the wall would be a nightmare. Perhaps as suggested above, if Eslin could make a play for Kilnagross based underagers it would even things out and give Eslin a much needed injection of youth but they are joined up with Mohill for the foreseeable, despite its obvious failure due to no rule stopping Eslin players from staying with Mohill for adult.
The rich get ricker and the poorer get poorer, pretty sure Marys threw in 3 junior sides in the league this year
gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 538 - 04/09/2024 17:10:23
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I don't think the splitting of any club in Leitrim is a good idea. We want to make our teams as strong as possible. St Mary's still has a relatively small pick in comparison to the larger club teams in Connacht and surrounding counties. Underage success doesn't guarantee senior success. Carrick were much more dominant underage in the 90s and only won one or two senior championships. But help keep a high standard of football in the county.
Backheel (Leitrim) - Posts: 157 - 04/09/2024 17:15:43
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The current GAA model means that you are expected to be equally loyal to your club and your county. Even if it makes perfect sense to transfer, the preference is that you stick with your club regardless of how good you are or how poor your club is. The zealots that exist within every club aren't shy about letting you know that you've let the parish down if you do transfer. In this day and age its increasingly unrealistic, particularly in Counties like Leitrim. The current model works well in plenty of places but in a predominantly rural county its completely outdated. It doesn't take a genius to see where success is likely to come from. With the exception of Fenagh, the common denominator is consistently strong numbers at underage level. That doesn't guarantee success but you are almost certainly guaranteed a lack of success without strong numbers coming through.
It's much easier to stick around if you're from a county that has a realistic chance of being at or near the top. The same applies to club football. Top players want to compete at the highest level possible. The structure of Leitrim football means that good players are stuck playing poor football. The talent that exists, and it does, is diluted across too many clubs. The aforementioned zealots couldn't care less as long as their club gets the chance to parade the odd cup around. As has already been mentioned, it is no longer the be all and end all for young people. They have way more distractions than 15 or 20 years ago and we have to accept that we need to offer them a better product than the one in existence. Young people of today are better educated, better informed and know that the world is very small. They also know that if they are good enough to play at inter county level they are going to struggle. They are going to struggle because of the structures that have been in place for so long. It's a vicious circle that we've been on for the last 25 years. The net result is that young people are not going to be as committed. Why would you put in all that effort?
How do we get around the various factions and rivalries beloved by certain members within all clubs? Take it out of their hands. Establish regional teams based on the available data whether its from the CSO or school enrolments. It does not mean that the clubs die. It simply means that there is a clear pathway for good players to perform at the highest possible level. The expectation in other sports is that you do progress from where you start. We expect our players to stay put and the better you are the bigger the pressure to stay put. If that logic were applied to other sports then Roy Keane would be playing for Cobh Ramblers and Tadhg Furlong would be playing for New Ross. Elite players in other sports move on with the blessing of their original clubs. They're proud to be associated with their success and it inspires younger players to emulate their success.
Regional teams should be set up and players invited to join them. I would hazard a guess that any opposition would be short lived once an email is sent to the respective players or players parents! There can be stand alone competitions for individual clubs or at underage there can be second teams. Roll it out at underage level and it'll eventually take hold at adult level. Like it or not, some players are better than others. We have gone too far to accommodate less talented players and ensuring they get adequate game time. I'm all for that. That's vital. The downside to this is that the good players are suffering and standards drop. We are failing these players and it is not surprising when they become demoralised.
The restructuring at adult club level is a welcome start but is just that. The success of winning The Fr. Manning Cup merely shows that there is talent available. If the proper structures are in place we can be even more successful. The aforementioned zealots would baulk at the idea of using Irish rugby as a comparison but even they cannot deny that the provincial system has worked well. Rather than it being the death knell of clubs the current structures have ensured that AIL clubs are thriving. The key to it is that players are playing at their level. Clubs have maintained their identities whilst accepting that they will produce players that will outgrow what their club can offer them.
ThePowerhouse (Leitrim) - Posts: 135 - 04/09/2024 18:05:14
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Declan Bohan highlighted at a county convention a few years ago that 70% of primary school going boys in the county lie in the catchment area of 9 of our 23 clubs. That's a startling statistic.
19% of primary school going boys lie in the catchment area of 1 club (St. Marys)
Yes Leitrim's population has grown and at its highest in decades but it has grown disproportionately. All the clubs from Drumshanbo up to Carrick and then along or close to the N4 (annaduff, bornacoola, mohill and gortlettragh) have grown in population but other areas have seen a massive drop off. The areas growing in population mostly are areas along the N4 and the all powerful road to Dublin needed for employment. That's the reality.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/top-leitrim-official-warns-of-serious-threat-to-many-rural-clubs/41151119.html
leitrim4sam (Leitrim) - Posts: 656 - 04/09/2024 23:37:19
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Any decent games this weekend?
TJH (Sligo) - Posts: 44 - 05/09/2024 10:04:51
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Replying To leitrim4sam: "Declan Bohan highlighted at a county convention a few years ago that 70% of primary school going boys in the county lie in the catchment area of 9 of our 23 clubs. That's a startling statistic.
19% of primary school going boys lie in the catchment area of 1 club (St. Marys)
Yes Leitrim's population has grown and at its highest in decades but it has grown disproportionately. All the clubs from Drumshanbo up to Carrick and then along or close to the N4 (annaduff, bornacoola, mohill and gortlettragh) have grown in population but other areas have seen a massive drop off. The areas growing in population mostly are areas along the N4 and the all powerful road to Dublin needed for employment. That's the reality.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/top-leitrim-official-warns-of-serious-threat-to-many-rural-clubs/41151119.html" I would have thought that areas not too far from Sligo tow...sorry city (chuckle) would have seen a decent amount of growth also, like Dromahair etc
eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 224 - 05/09/2024 10:07:48
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Replying To ThePowerhouse: "The current GAA model means that you are expected to be equally loyal to your club and your county. Even if it makes perfect sense to transfer, the preference is that you stick with your club regardless of how good you are or how poor your club is. The zealots that exist within every club aren't shy about letting you know that you've let the parish down if you do transfer. In this day and age its increasingly unrealistic, particularly in Counties like Leitrim. The current model works well in plenty of places but in a predominantly rural county its completely outdated. It doesn't take a genius to see where success is likely to come from. With the exception of Fenagh, the common denominator is consistently strong numbers at underage level. That doesn't guarantee success but you are almost certainly guaranteed a lack of success without strong numbers coming through.
It's much easier to stick around if you're from a county that has a realistic chance of being at or near the top. The same applies to club football. Top players want to compete at the highest level possible. The structure of Leitrim football means that good players are stuck playing poor football. The talent that exists, and it does, is diluted across too many clubs. The aforementioned zealots couldn't care less as long as their club gets the chance to parade the odd cup around. As has already been mentioned, it is no longer the be all and end all for young people. They have way more distractions than 15 or 20 years ago and we have to accept that we need to offer them a better product than the one in existence. Young people of today are better educated, better informed and know that the world is very small. They also know that if they are good enough to play at inter county level they are going to struggle. They are going to struggle because of the structures that have been in place for so long. It's a vicious circle that we've been on for the last 25 years. The net result is that young people are not going to be as committed. Why would you put in all that effort?
How do we get around the various factions and rivalries beloved by certain members within all clubs? Take it out of their hands. Establish regional teams based on the available data whether its from the CSO or school enrolments. It does not mean that the clubs die. It simply means that there is a clear pathway for good players to perform at the highest possible level. The expectation in other sports is that you do progress from where you start. We expect our players to stay put and the better you are the bigger the pressure to stay put. If that logic were applied to other sports then Roy Keane would be playing for Cobh Ramblers and Tadhg Furlong would be playing for New Ross. Elite players in other sports move on with the blessing of their original clubs. They're proud to be associated with their success and it inspires younger players to emulate their success.
Regional teams should be set up and players invited to join them. I would hazard a guess that any opposition would be short lived once an email is sent to the respective players or players parents! There can be stand alone competitions for individual clubs or at underage there can be second teams. Roll it out at underage level and it'll eventually take hold at adult level. Like it or not, some players are better than others. We have gone too far to accommodate less talented players and ensuring they get adequate game time. I'm all for that. That's vital. The downside to this is that the good players are suffering and standards drop. We are failing these players and it is not surprising when they become demoralised.
The restructuring at adult club level is a welcome start but is just that. The success of winning The Fr. Manning Cup merely shows that there is talent available. If the proper structures are in place we can be even more successful. The aforementioned zealots would baulk at the idea of using Irish rugby as a comparison but even they cannot deny that the provincial system has worked well. Rather than it being the death knell of clubs the current structures have ensured that AIL clubs are thriving. The key to it is that players are playing at their level. Clubs have maintained their identities whilst accepting that they will produce players that will outgrow what their club can offer them." If winning & success becomes everything, ultimately what is the point of the GAA? I get that it is important but it is not the most important. The GAA is ultimately a cultural organisation which promotes cultural identity & social cohesion through our games and other activities such as Scor and so forth. This is what we are about or should be at least. The organisation is volunteer led for a reason and that's the way it should stay in my opinion. Pride in your parish & your county. I get that kids and young adults have lots of options now that their parents didn't have but again in my opinion the sence of pride in your parish or county is not expressed enough. How often do we see people take the **** out of people from Leitrim? Does it go unchallenged because it shouldn't. I'm very proud of my parish & county but unfortunately for economic reasons don't live in the county of my birth which is sad really.
We probably agree in a lot of ways but the issue as I see it in Leitrim is that we're not serious enough about coaching and structures at club level and of course this translates into the poor standard at a county level. And we see that at club level with the low amount of home grown coaches & managers at senior team level across the playing grades. Most clubs have outside management. This is all known and shouldn't really come as a surprise. Also, particularly on rural areas, Local Government + Government policy is killing rural clubs. One off housing is not wanted. If clubs in Leitrim outside of the big towns are to survive, the volunteers of tomorrow need somewhere to live and work ideally within an hour drive or work from home arrangements. Again this is all well known.
Certainly the idea of regional teams is a good one and I think it needs to be managed at county board level & funded. Starting with North Leitrim & 2 teams in South Leitrim (purely because of the larger amount of teams). The playing population should be limited to Inter & Junior grade teams (anyone outside the first 13 at Senior grade) in my opinion and be entered in the Senior championship annually. These teams could be managed under county senior & underage management structure (so in this example Mickey Graham would take a team and so forth). In time, underage amalgamations (outside the normal ones could be considered. Of course all of the requires volunteers and more needs to be done on that front to encourage people to get involved, particularly people who have kids and may not have played football themselves. None of this will work without volunteers and strong leadership at club level. It can be done.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 943 - 05/09/2024 11:49:58
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Replying To Backheel: "I don't think the splitting of any club in Leitrim is a good idea. We want to make our teams as strong as possible. St Mary's still has a relatively small pick in comparison to the larger club teams in Connacht and surrounding counties. Underage success doesn't guarantee senior success. Carrick were much more dominant underage in the 90s and only won one or two senior championships. But help keep a high standard of football in the county." Agree completely!!! Its 15 vs 15 on any day. Its up to smaller clubs to ensure their best 15 is put out
TJH (Sligo) - Posts: 44 - 05/09/2024 12:02:53
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Replying To Square_B: "If winning & success becomes everything, ultimately what is the point of the GAA? I get that it is important but it is not the most important. The GAA is ultimately a cultural organisation which promotes cultural identity & social cohesion through our games and other activities such as Scor and so forth. This is what we are about or should be at least. The organisation is volunteer led for a reason and that's the way it should stay in my opinion. Pride in your parish & your county. I get that kids and young adults have lots of options now that their parents didn't have but again in my opinion the sence of pride in your parish or county is not expressed enough. How often do we see people take the **** out of people from Leitrim? Does it go unchallenged because it shouldn't. I'm very proud of my parish & county but unfortunately for economic reasons don't live in the county of my birth which is sad really.
We probably agree in a lot of ways but the issue as I see it in Leitrim is that we're not serious enough about coaching and structures at club level and of course this translates into the poor standard at a county level. And we see that at club level with the low amount of home grown coaches & managers at senior team level across the playing grades. Most clubs have outside management. This is all known and shouldn't really come as a surprise. Also, particularly on rural areas, Local Government + Government policy is killing rural clubs. One off housing is not wanted. If clubs in Leitrim outside of the big towns are to survive, the volunteers of tomorrow need somewhere to live and work ideally within an hour drive or work from home arrangements. Again this is all well known.
Certainly the idea of regional teams is a good one and I think it needs to be managed at county board level & funded. Starting with North Leitrim & 2 teams in South Leitrim (purely because of the larger amount of teams). The playing population should be limited to Inter & Junior grade teams (anyone outside the first 13 at Senior grade) in my opinion and be entered in the Senior championship annually. These teams could be managed under county senior & underage management structure (so in this example Mickey Graham would take a team and so forth). In time, underage amalgamations (outside the normal ones could be considered. Of course all of the requires volunteers and more needs to be done on that front to encourage people to get involved, particularly people who have kids and may not have played football themselves. None of this will work without volunteers and strong leadership at club level. It can be done." Very good post. Some great coaches about with good ideas but they are often not listened to because new ideas and processes can cost money that clubs do not have or will not spend, fair enough but when you consider what is spent on outside managers it is a drop in the ocean.
A good idea on the regional competitions to exclude senior club players outside of the guaranteed starters, the only problem is convincing the luddites in smaller clubs to release their better players for it in case they get injured for their own club competition, make it some sort of requirement to make at least 5 players available from each inter/junior club might solve this
gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 538 - 05/09/2024 14:34:17
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Replying To Square_B: "If winning & success becomes everything, ultimately what is the point of the GAA? I get that it is important but it is not the most important. The GAA is ultimately a cultural organisation which promotes cultural identity & social cohesion through our games and other activities such as Scor and so forth. This is what we are about or should be at least. The organisation is volunteer led for a reason and that's the way it should stay in my opinion. Pride in your parish & your county. I get that kids and young adults have lots of options now that their parents didn't have but again in my opinion the sence of pride in your parish or county is not expressed enough. How often do we see people take the **** out of people from Leitrim? Does it go unchallenged because it shouldn't. I'm very proud of my parish & county but unfortunately for economic reasons don't live in the county of my birth which is sad really.
We probably agree in a lot of ways but the issue as I see it in Leitrim is that we're not serious enough about coaching and structures at club level and of course this translates into the poor standard at a county level. And we see that at club level with the low amount of home grown coaches & managers at senior team level across the playing grades. Most clubs have outside management. This is all known and shouldn't really come as a surprise. Also, particularly on rural areas, Local Government + Government policy is killing rural clubs. One off housing is not wanted. If clubs in Leitrim outside of the big towns are to survive, the volunteers of tomorrow need somewhere to live and work ideally within an hour drive or work from home arrangements. Again this is all well known.
Certainly the idea of regional teams is a good one and I think it needs to be managed at county board level & funded. Starting with North Leitrim & 2 teams in South Leitrim (purely because of the larger amount of teams). The playing population should be limited to Inter & Junior grade teams (anyone outside the first 13 at Senior grade) in my opinion and be entered in the Senior championship annually. These teams could be managed under county senior & underage management structure (so in this example Mickey Graham would take a team and so forth). In time, underage amalgamations (outside the normal ones could be considered. Of course all of the requires volunteers and more needs to be done on that front to encourage people to get involved, particularly people who have kids and may not have played football themselves. None of this will work without volunteers and strong leadership at club level. It can be done." The person playing junior B because he just wants to play football, the Scor participant, the person at the gate etc. etc. are, in my opinion, as important to each club as their best player. They are all what makes the GAA what it is and it is an extraordinary organisation. It is much more than just a sporting organisation.
The unheralded club player or volunteer is catered for in every county including our own. They are happy to participate, to play or help and get little thanks and expect less. Where we are failing is in catering for the elite player. They also have to be considered but they are not. The results speak for themselves. Other counties have shown that both sides can co-exist. We are not performing at our optimum and haven't done so since the 90s.
Winning isn't everything but the value of the occasional win was plain to see with the victory of our women footballers and our Olympic athletes. It is important that we give ourselves the best chance to perform to our optimum level.
Rather than our voluntary ethos being damaged by success I would argue that it would bolster it. The volunteer would feel part of that success and they'd be right to think that because without them it couldn't happen. We'd gain so much and lose very little if anything.
I've said before that you don't have to be paid to act professionally. We lack that professional attitude when it comes to producing top class players.
ThePowerhouse (Leitrim) - Posts: 135 - 05/09/2024 16:49:53
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Regarding amalgamations Kerry-style for the championship. My understanding of it down there is you've got divisions based on geography, and clubs belong to those divisions, so for example the East Kerry division contains thirteen clubs. Now, if any of those clubs is senior (for 2024, that's Dr Crokes, Rathmore and Spa), that club participates as itself in the Kerry Senior Football Championship, and the remaining clubs amalgamate to represent East Kerry in that championship. Also, those 10 non-senior clubs, in this example, would still participate as themselves in their intermediate or junior championship.
Let's say we were to transplant that to Leitrim. Imagine we divided Leitrim up like, say, the local election areas (Manorhamilton LEA, Carrick-on-Shannon LEA, Ballinamore LEA), and we had a North Leitrim, South-east Leitrim and South-west Leitrim, or whatever names you wanted to call them. Then the senior championship, if you still included the current teams in this year's one, would also have these amalgamations (with current senior teams in brackets):
North Leitrim (Glencar-Manor, Dromahair):
Melvin Gaels
Glenfarne/Kiltyclogher
Drumkeerin
South-west Leitrim (Leitrim Gaels, St Mary's, Annaduff, Mohill, Gortletteragh):
Allen Gaels*
Kiltubrid*
Bornacoola
Eslin
South-east Leitrim (Fenagh, Sean O'Heslin's, Aughawillan):
Ballinaglera
Aughnasheelin
Drumreilly
Cloone
Aughavas
Carrigallen
*Ballinamore LEA-based team moved out of South-east Leitrim district to even it up a bit
So each of those clubs could have players playing for the amalgamation in the senior championship as well as represent their own club in the intermediate/junior championship, and those ten clubs in brackets would play as themselves in the senior championship.
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1104 - 05/09/2024 23:42:56
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Replying To ThePowerhouse: "The person playing junior B because he just wants to play football, the Scor participant, the person at the gate etc. etc. are, in my opinion, as important to each club as their best player. They are all what makes the GAA what it is and it is an extraordinary organisation. It is much more than just a sporting organisation.
The unheralded club player or volunteer is catered for in every county including our own. They are happy to participate, to play or help and get little thanks and expect less. Where we are failing is in catering for the elite player. They also have to be considered but they are not. The results speak for themselves. Other counties have shown that both sides can co-exist. We are not performing at our optimum and haven't done so since the 90s.
Winning isn't everything but the value of the occasional win was plain to see with the victory of our women footballers and our Olympic athletes. It is important that we give ourselves the best chance to perform to our optimum level.
Rather than our voluntary ethos being damaged by success I would argue that it would bolster it. The volunteer would feel part of that success and they'd be right to think that because without them it couldn't happen. We'd gain so much and lose very little if anything.
I've said before that you don't have to be paid to act professionally. We lack that professional attitude when it comes to producing top class players." We lack the professional attitude to producing enough elite players because we have poor coaching structures & probably too many clubs in the county to be able to put those structures in place without having overburdened volunteers. To produce elite players in Leitrim requires more intensive coaching because of the numbers.... think about it this way.... the entire underage population in Leitrim would possibly go to a club like Kilmacud Crokes. More intensive coaching to keep lads involved, keep drop off levels low, keep in the ears & mind of young lads, sell them a vision. The elite player (at county level senior / underage) in Leitrim is well looked after in my opinion. Any of the elite lads I knew growing up with were naturally able, they didn't need much coaching but more of it obviously would have helped. What they needed was better strength & conditioning and that has not changed a few decades on. What you seem to be suggesting is that perhaps elite players should be able to move to stronger clubs easier if their own club isn't up to scratch. I wouldn't agree with that but correct me if I have picked that up wrong.
In terms of structures etc, I would like to see a structure along the lines of the community games model in Leitrim for underage coaching... the Ballinamore Area... Manorhamilton Area... Carrick On Shannon area.... and so on. Ideally each of these areas would be able to fund a GPO with the assistance of the county board. More intensive coaching could then take place at a club level using this funded / shared GPO and along with the directly employed GPO's at county level. Each area would join up at least once every fortnight rotating around each club in the area. It would require a serious amount of organisation but it can be done. I understand that some clubs did investigate trying to directly employ a GPO before and went against it but I think it needs to be done. The same GPO could (& I say this with a big question mark) also possibly be cost shared with the primary / secondary schools in the area. Standing around and saying it can't be done is not good enough anymore, imagination and collaboration between neighbouring clubs / community groups is needed. It has to start somewhere and it needs to start straight away as nursery level (4+) & in the areas as I've suggested above as I'm fully aware that a few clubs might only have a handful of kids at each age group.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 943 - 06/09/2024 07:09:13
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Replying To Square_B: "We lack the professional attitude to producing enough elite players because we have poor coaching structures & probably too many clubs in the county to be able to put those structures in place without having overburdened volunteers. To produce elite players in Leitrim requires more intensive coaching because of the numbers.... think about it this way.... the entire underage population in Leitrim would possibly go to a club like Kilmacud Crokes. More intensive coaching to keep lads involved, keep drop off levels low, keep in the ears & mind of young lads, sell them a vision. The elite player (at county level senior / underage) in Leitrim is well looked after in my opinion. Any of the elite lads I knew growing up with were naturally able, they didn't need much coaching but more of it obviously would have helped. What they needed was better strength & conditioning and that has not changed a few decades on. What you seem to be suggesting is that perhaps elite players should be able to move to stronger clubs easier if their own club isn't up to scratch. I wouldn't agree with that but correct me if I have picked that up wrong.
In terms of structures etc, I would like to see a structure along the lines of the community games model in Leitrim for underage coaching... the Ballinamore Area... Manorhamilton Area... Carrick On Shannon area.... and so on. Ideally each of these areas would be able to fund a GPO with the assistance of the county board. More intensive coaching could then take place at a club level using this funded / shared GPO and along with the directly employed GPO's at county level. Each area would join up at least once every fortnight rotating around each club in the area. It would require a serious amount of organisation but it can be done. I understand that some clubs did investigate trying to directly employ a GPO before and went against it but I think it needs to be done. The same GPO could (& I say this with a big question mark) also possibly be cost shared with the primary / secondary schools in the area. Standing around and saying it can't be done is not good enough anymore, imagination and collaboration between neighbouring clubs / community groups is needed. It has to start somewhere and it needs to start straight away as nursery level (4+) & in the areas as I've suggested above as I'm fully aware that a few clubs might only have a handful of kids at each age group." What I'm suggesting is along the lines of what Kerry have. It obviously has to be tailored to our specific needs. There will be clubs like St. Mary's who will be able to stand alone and presumably the other town teams.
It doesn't mean that the elite players from clubs outside of the standalone clubs would leave their parent club. They could still play with their parent club at intermediate or junior level. As it stands there are only a few obvious examples that could justifably call themselves senior standard.
Regional teams that would enter the senior championship would offer them the opportunity to play at the highest possible level within the county. Embedding this at underage level would ensure that the highest standard of football is available to players all the way through their development which would improve standards.
ThePowerhouse (Leitrim) - Posts: 135 - 06/09/2024 11:23:40
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Replying To Square_B: "We lack the professional attitude to producing enough elite players because we have poor coaching structures & probably too many clubs in the county to be able to put those structures in place without having overburdened volunteers. To produce elite players in Leitrim requires more intensive coaching because of the numbers.... think about it this way.... the entire underage population in Leitrim would possibly go to a club like Kilmacud Crokes. More intensive coaching to keep lads involved, keep drop off levels low, keep in the ears & mind of young lads, sell them a vision. The elite player (at county level senior / underage) in Leitrim is well looked after in my opinion. Any of the elite lads I knew growing up with were naturally able, they didn't need much coaching but more of it obviously would have helped. What they needed was better strength & conditioning and that has not changed a few decades on. What you seem to be suggesting is that perhaps elite players should be able to move to stronger clubs easier if their own club isn't up to scratch. I wouldn't agree with that but correct me if I have picked that up wrong.
In terms of structures etc, I would like to see a structure along the lines of the community games model in Leitrim for underage coaching... the Ballinamore Area... Manorhamilton Area... Carrick On Shannon area.... and so on. Ideally each of these areas would be able to fund a GPO with the assistance of the county board. More intensive coaching could then take place at a club level using this funded / shared GPO and along with the directly employed GPO's at county level. Each area would join up at least once every fortnight rotating around each club in the area. It would require a serious amount of organisation but it can be done. I understand that some clubs did investigate trying to directly employ a GPO before and went against it but I think it needs to be done. The same GPO could (& I say this with a big question mark) also possibly be cost shared with the primary / secondary schools in the area. Standing around and saying it can't be done is not good enough anymore, imagination and collaboration between neighbouring clubs / community groups is needed. It has to start somewhere and it needs to start straight away as nursery level (4+) & in the areas as I've suggested above as I'm fully aware that a few clubs might only have a handful of kids at each age group." I don't believe it was ever mentioned about moving to another club if their own wasn't good enough. You placed with you club for your regular championship as is the case now. You then have a secondary competition after to play with the divisional / amalgamated teams.
leitrimlad15 (Leitrim) - Posts: 87 - 06/09/2024 12:21:40
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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma: "Regarding amalgamations Kerry-style for the championship. My understanding of it down there is you've got divisions based on geography, and clubs belong to those divisions, so for example the East Kerry division contains thirteen clubs. Now, if any of those clubs is senior (for 2024, that's Dr Crokes, Rathmore and Spa), that club participates as itself in the Kerry Senior Football Championship, and the remaining clubs amalgamate to represent East Kerry in that championship. Also, those 10 non-senior clubs, in this example, would still participate as themselves in their intermediate or junior championship.
Let's say we were to transplant that to Leitrim. Imagine we divided Leitrim up like, say, the local election areas (Manorhamilton LEA, Carrick-on-Shannon LEA, Ballinamore LEA), and we had a North Leitrim, South-east Leitrim and South-west Leitrim, or whatever names you wanted to call them. Then the senior championship, if you still included the current teams in this year's one, would also have these amalgamations (with current senior teams in brackets):
North Leitrim (Glencar-Manor, Dromahair):
Melvin Gaels
Glenfarne/Kiltyclogher
Drumkeerin
South-west Leitrim (Leitrim Gaels, St Mary's, Annaduff, Mohill, Gortletteragh):
Allen Gaels*
Kiltubrid*
Bornacoola
Eslin
South-east Leitrim (Fenagh, Sean O'Heslin's, Aughawillan):
Ballinaglera
Aughnasheelin
Drumreilly
Cloone
Aughavas
Carrigallen
*Ballinamore LEA-based team moved out of South-east Leitrim district to even it up a bit
So each of those clubs could have players playing for the amalgamation in the senior championship as well as represent their own club in the intermediate/junior championship, and those ten clubs in brackets would play as themselves in the senior championship." That's a good structure. However 10 standalone clubs is too many for the SFC. 10 teams in total maybe, your 3 regionals and 7 standalones. And the other clubs play in IFC and JFC with the usual promotion / relegation to and from Senior.
IronSleeve (Leitrim) - Posts: 6 - 06/09/2024 12:33:19
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