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Roscommon GAA thread

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Replying To The_analyser:  "1991 was the worst for me also. Roscommon side at their peak and i would have fancied our chances in AI final.

Yes different management regimes and the same defensive issues halting championship progress since 2015. Nigel Dineen got plenty of stick here and elsewhere also with the U21s for not having his teams set up right in defence but that wasn't exposed until the AI finals against star studded Dublin teams.

The problem is a lack of system to have us defending collectively better even All star natural backs would struggle in the way we leave defenders exposed. A top quality defence/tackling coach is needed and i hope once he's brought in that our local journalists and supporters have a bit more patience and understanding, if short term we have to endure some dour matches it will be worth it long term to have a side that defends as a team properly."
The Meath game was probably more comparable to what happened last week.

Minor and u21 up to that time was still played in a very open and purist way and naturally skillful teams tended to do well. Dublin had the skill but also played with a bit more structure.

It would have been interesting to see how Poacher would have got on had they had a normal league campaign to experiment with.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 227 - 18/06/2022 20:41:47    2425903

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Replying To MachaireConnacht:  "The Meath game was probably more comparable to what happened last week.

Minor and u21 up to that time was still played in a very open and purist way and naturally skillful teams tended to do well. Dublin had the skill but also played with a bit more structure.

It would have been interesting to see how Poacher would have got on had they had a normal league campaign to experiment with."
We lost the Meath game in 1991 by a single point having been reeled in by the Royals. Not comparable to last week's collapse from leading by 5 points in the 68th minute.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1767 - 18/06/2022 20:59:31    2425916

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Replying To endgame:  "We lost the Meath game in 1991 by a single point having been reeled in by the Royals. Not comparable to last week's collapse from leading by 5 points in the 68th minute."
Comparable both games was. Two games that Roscommon got themselves in a position of winning and lost by a point.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 2902 - 18/06/2022 21:34:53    2425934

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Replying To endgame:  "We lost the Meath game in 1991 by a single point having been reeled in by the Royals. Not comparable to last week's collapse from leading by 5 points in the 68th minute."
Meath 91 had a scatter of recent AI winners on their team while Clare are a mid Division 2 team.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 374 - 18/06/2022 21:40:48    2425935

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Meath 91 had a scatter of recent AI winners on their team while Clare are a mid Division 2 team."
Agreed. I was at that game in August 1991. Roscommon's last All Ireland football semi final. Meath had won the All Ireland in 1987 and 1988. They had many of those players in 1991. Roscommon had a 4/5 point lead at one stage. Derek Duggan scored a great goal just before half time but Meath reeled us in during the second half .A very disappointing defeat but not really comparable with the late collapse against Clare last week.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1767 - 19/06/2022 09:38:48    2425972

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The opposition was not as good but you could argue that the 91 Roscommon team was operating at a higher level at that time than the current one is in their own time. The common theme is a mentality issue with Roscommon teams playing championship games at Croke Park. Even when the better team and leading for long stretches of games they still can't get over the line. There has also been the rabbit in headlights scenarios like Kerry 2003 where they leave themselves a mountain to climb after shipping big scores early on. Maybe it's a western thing. Mayo have had their fair share of Croker woes, Galway have had very few good Croke Park performances since 2001. Ulster teams seem to have no fear of the place in contrast.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 227 - 19/06/2022 11:35:10    2426007

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Replying To endgame:  "Some of us on here have wanted Anthony gone for some time. Not just last Saturday evening after what was probably the most disastrous collapse in the history of Roscommon football. Clare avoided Dublin or Kerry in the draw and got Derry who Roscommon would have wanted. I'd still expect Derry to have too much. This is a talented generation of Roscommon footballers. They were very successful at underage. Very disappointing but not surprising to hear Jim McGuinness describe how the Roscommon Defence is not being properly coached and how Niall Daly wasn't positioned correctly for his defensive role in Salthill. McGuinness has done it as a Manager at the highest level. I'd like to see these Roscommon players have a chance under a different Manager while they're still in their prime. Their time will have passed in a few more years."
Agree 100%. Respect hugely what AC has done and he has brought us on since he took charge but it's time for change. It won't be any better next year unless the whole management is freshened up, we look like a team that needs a new voice in order to get that bite back that we had in AC's first year. We're fooling ourselves if we think more of the same with a defensive coach do will solve anything. Reading some quotes after the game, management don't seem to think they got a whole pile wrong tactically even in the Clare game. The reality is they got a lot wrong in this championship, you could write an essay on it. I'll agree getting the right person won't be easy but it shouldn't be a determining factor in the decision. Donegal this year were completely flat after deciding to stick with Bonner last year. It will be the same for us this time next year if we make that decision.

Primrose_and_blue (Roscommon) - Posts: 18 - 19/06/2022 12:29:49    2426030

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Replying To endgame:  "Agreed. I was at that game in August 1991. Roscommon's last All Ireland football semi final. Meath had won the All Ireland in 1987 and 1988. They had many of those players in 1991. Roscommon had a 4/5 point lead at one stage. Derek Duggan scored a great goal just before half time but Meath reeled us in during the second half .A very disappointing defeat but not really comparable with the late collapse against Clare last week."
But you could argue we had three players also who had played in an AI final we should have won in 1980. We were a top 4 team in 90 and 91 and had players who won All Stars throughout the 1980's. Meath were at our level then. Unfortunately we are a good bit off being a top 4 team now and Clare are around our level.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 227 - 19/06/2022 13:14:19    2426045

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Meath 91 had a scatter of recent AI winners on their team while Clare are a mid Division 2 team."
While current Roscommon team are just after getting out of Div 2 and failed to beat said mid table Div 2 team during that campaign....

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 227 - 19/06/2022 13:22:38    2426049

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Replying To MachaireConnacht:  "While current Roscommon team are just after getting out of Div 2 and failed to beat said mid table Div 2 team during that campaign...."
I think you might be missing the point here. Yes Roscommon are currently a mediocre team and were poor in the Connacht Final. Roscommon may not be that much better than Clare either unfortunately which is why AC should go. However the point here is that Roscommon were 5 points up on Clare with 2 minutes of normal time left. For Roscommon to lose the match from that position of ascendancy ( 5 point lead 2 minutes to go) is unforgivable and amounts to a collapse like I can't remember before with Roscommon. Any half serious team with a 5 point lead in the 68th minute would close it out. Mayo posters were calling us soft on another forum .Hard to disagree with them.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1767 - 19/06/2022 14:53:27    2426079

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Replying To endgame:  "I think you might be missing the point here. Yes Roscommon are currently a mediocre team and were poor in the Connacht Final. Roscommon may not be that much better than Clare either unfortunately which is why AC should go. However the point here is that Roscommon were 5 points up on Clare with 2 minutes of normal time left. For Roscommon to lose the match from that position of ascendancy ( 5 point lead 2 minutes to go) is unforgivable and amounts to a collapse like I can't remember before with Roscommon. Any half serious team with a 5 point lead in the 68th minute would close it out. Mayo posters were calling us soft on another forum .Hard to disagree with them."
Most recently we allowed Laois draw with us in the league with two late goals, We were 6 points up against Fermanagh in 2015 and lost. The Fermanagh comeback also started with a penalty conceded and winner scored deep into injury time that was the first time they led in the game.

5 points isn't a big lead when we are capable of leaking big scoring totals and results like last Saturday will happen again unless something is done to fix the defensive side of the team regardless of manager.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3204 - 19/06/2022 17:01:51    2426122

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Replying To endgame:  "I think you might be missing the point here. Yes Roscommon are currently a mediocre team and were poor in the Connacht Final. Roscommon may not be that much better than Clare either unfortunately which is why AC should go. However the point here is that Roscommon were 5 points up on Clare with 2 minutes of normal time left. For Roscommon to lose the match from that position of ascendancy ( 5 point lead 2 minutes to go) is unforgivable and amounts to a collapse like I can't remember before with Roscommon. Any half serious team with a 5 point lead in the 68th minute would close it out. Mayo posters were calling us soft on another forum .Hard to disagree with them."
The abruptness of the collapse made it feel worse. I know what you're saying but the more I think of it the more I think that capitulation was more of a lack of leadership on the field. Absolutely management have a portion of blame for the first half. What happened in the last 5 minutes I think was less management and more to do with lack of leaders on the field. They are an experienced team at this stage. It needed clever and strong heads to close that game out and an attitude that the game isn't over till the whistle blows. They stopped doing what had got them back into the game. How were they able to go from standing off Clare in the first half to pressing and tackling them in the first 30 minutes of the second. Surely if they could do it in that spell then they should be able to do every time they play.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 227 - 19/06/2022 17:19:01    2426128

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Replying To The_analyser:  "Most recently we allowed Laois draw with us in the league with two late goals, We were 6 points up against Fermanagh in 2015 and lost. The Fermanagh comeback also started with a penalty conceded and winner scored deep into injury time that was the first time they led in the game.

5 points isn't a big lead when we are capable of leaking big scoring totals and results like last Saturday will happen again unless something is done to fix the defensive side of the team regardless of manager."
Enniskillen 2015 was disappointing as we were reeled in by Fermanagh to lose by a point. Not as stark though as last week. Of course the defensive frailties and flaws have to be remedied if this Roscommon team are to go anywhere. It's up to Management to get that right and AC has had 4 years and we're as bad as ever at the back. Time to give a new Manager the reins.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1767 - 19/06/2022 18:22:58    2426145

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Replying To endgame:  "Enniskillen 2015 was disappointing as we were reeled in by Fermanagh to lose by a point. Not as stark though as last week. Of course the defensive frailties and flaws have to be remedied if this Roscommon team are to go anywhere. It's up to Management to get that right and AC has had 4 years and we're as bad as ever at the back. Time to give a new Manager the reins."
Both was stark. We were "reeled" in last Saturday v Clare and v Fermanagh in 2015, Unable to halt their momentum and momentum that came from our own lack of discipline giving way silly penalties. Two games we should have closed out and 7 years on and lessons still not learnt. Can have a new manager and new day but are we going to see the same old s...

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3204 - 19/06/2022 19:49:52    2426162

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McStay was convinced to retire for 2 reasons, lack of defending or defensive structure and lack of s&C, fitness/stamina.
4 years on reason no 1 still too blatantly obviously there while reason 2 has been rectified somewhat.
I'm still baffled by them dropping Evan McGrath and Colin Walsh from the panel considering the shortage if defender around the County plus Lennon and Richardson injuries.

Possible mental brittleness involved too losing leads etc?
From what I hear AC has no intention of stepping down and most players seem happy for him to stay on.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 374 - 19/06/2022 20:43:37    2426189

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "McStay was convinced to retire for 2 reasons, lack of defending or defensive structure and lack of s&C, fitness/stamina.
4 years on reason no 1 still too blatantly obviously there while reason 2 has been rectified somewhat.
I'm still baffled by them dropping Evan McGrath and Colin Walsh from the panel considering the shortage if defender around the County plus Lennon and Richardson injuries.

Possible mental brittleness involved too losing leads etc?
From what I hear AC has no intention of stepping down and most players seem happy for him to stay on."
Good decision to remain. Remember he took on a job nobody else wanted last time round. Be interesting to see if he adds to backroom team as we embark on another D1 campaign.

Jack L (None) - Posts: 2918 - 19/06/2022 21:16:56    2426201

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "McStay was convinced to retire for 2 reasons, lack of defending or defensive structure and lack of s&C, fitness/stamina.
4 years on reason no 1 still too blatantly obviously there while reason 2 has been rectified somewhat.
I'm still baffled by them dropping Evan McGrath and Colin Walsh from the panel considering the shortage if defender around the County plus Lennon and Richardson injuries.

Possible mental brittleness involved too losing leads etc?
From what I hear AC has no intention of stepping down and most players seem happy for him to stay on."
No doubt AC won't want to step down. He wanted to stay on as Galway hurling Manager in 2015 even after the players had voted no confidence in him but ultimately he was persuaded to go. I think though that his term with Roscommon is up so the County Board will have to look at the position. If one championship victory in three years ( and that against a 14 man Division 4 team ) is deemed good enough, then Roscommon have no ambition and no hope and us supporters who dream of great days are codding ourselves.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1767 - 19/06/2022 21:24:40    2426205

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "McStay was convinced to retire for 2 reasons, lack of defending or defensive structure and lack of s&C, fitness/stamina.
4 years on reason no 1 still too blatantly obviously there while reason 2 has been rectified somewhat.
I'm still baffled by them dropping Evan McGrath and Colin Walsh from the panel considering the shortage if defender around the County plus Lennon and Richardson injuries.

Possible mental brittleness involved too losing leads etc?
From what I hear AC has no intention of stepping down and most players seem happy for him to stay on."
Yes, Evan McGrath looked promising along with young Walsh. Those lads definitely need time around the senior set up. Look at Offaly now bringing through their U20s, although you don't want to throw them in at the deep end too soon either. Keith Doyle got ideal exposure this year.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 227 - 20/06/2022 09:05:40    2426245

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I would hope AC wouldn't step down as there are few options to replace him, it looks like the panel have grasped the A&C requirement for this level. The next phase is the defensive side of the game needs major work to get us to the next level. Some players may need to be sacrificed. Ultimately you need to balance between attack and defence it's not working, McGuinness showed us on Sky how our defensive plan wasn't working. We need to bring in the expertise to coach these players on what to do as it's obvious that the message isn't getting across to defend properly as a team. All is not lost with these players, we can get it right by bringing in the expertise as Galway Kerry and mayo have shown.

imformed (Roscommon) - Posts: 144 - 20/06/2022 09:15:50    2426252

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Replying To imformed:  "I would hope AC wouldn't step down as there are few options to replace him, it looks like the panel have grasped the A&C requirement for this level. The next phase is the defensive side of the game needs major work to get us to the next level. Some players may need to be sacrificed. Ultimately you need to balance between attack and defence it's not working, McGuinness showed us on Sky how our defensive plan wasn't working. We need to bring in the expertise to coach these players on what to do as it's obvious that the message isn't getting across to defend properly as a team. All is not lost with these players, we can get it right by bringing in the expertise as Galway Kerry and mayo have shown."
Definitely one area where AC has to be commended is S and C. He has helped raise the bar and brought us on a lot. Remember the light lads when McStay was in charge? Not saying it was McStays fault, and in fairness he highlighted the issue. Next phase definitely defensive. It's a good sign if most of the panel want him to stay. They will all want themselves to get to the next level.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 227 - 20/06/2022 09:48:55    2426261

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