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I think you misunderstood the post. Quite the opposite really, I think there should be a debate on if dropping all underage county level competitions would keep more players in the sport until adult level.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 30/11/2021 10:58:58 2391184 Link 0 |
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But they are dead right. Don't need any deadwood. If can pull 4 or 5 players, happy days.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 642 - 30/11/2021 14:07:02 2391209 Link 0 |
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Because if there arent any "deadwood" thered be no team for the 4 or 5 to become good hurlers/footballers with. Theyd probably be good soccer or rugby players. At the end of the day any GAA club has far more important parts to it than the current best players.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11831 - 30/11/2021 17:08:46 2391242 Link 0 |
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Depends on the definition of deadwood. A lad who gets up in the morning and looks in the mirror and says to himself, "jayus I am a real funny lad, I am going to wind up those lads on the hoganstand today" well that thats deadwood to society.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 01/12/2021 11:49:20 2391281 Link 1 |
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another meaning of deadwood to a Gaa tam would be a lad who cant make his junior b team but lads on hogan stand fighting for his cause and for u-20 grade. lets be realistic about the u-20 grade, its absolutely pointless. a return to u-18 and then u-21 works much better. Dont know why your talking about mirrors or being funny.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 642 - 01/12/2021 16:51:05 2391330 Link 0 |
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Agree u18 and u21 make better stepping stones between juvenile and adult. But the fact remains that even if a lad is terrible he should still be able to take part. If you as a club are only interested in the 4 or 5 good lads your club will die due to lack of playing numbers.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11831 - 01/12/2021 17:43:42 2391334 Link 0 |
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If you honestly and firmly believe that a simple change in the age limits would make everything work much better, then I'm guessing you're not much older than 21 yourself. You're definitely not old enough to remember how the problems of the last few years in trying to play the U20 championship always happened when it was U21 too - i.e. working it around the county team, around the adult club championships, and trying to find a time to play it at all. Either that, or you're so old that your memory is starting to play tricks on you. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2241 - 01/12/2021 18:07:44 2391337 Link 0 |
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I played my last year of u-21 10 years ago,so I am quite a bit older than 21 myself. We and most clubs had no issues fielding teams at u-21 throughout the 5 years I played u-21. Not one club had to join either. I have managed teams at u-21 and u-20 since. So I am old enough to remember thank you. All clubs had a team by themselves and the hammerings that are happening now did not happen either. But I'm too young to remember that apparently. Or was it so old my memory is playing tricks on me? Lads were old enough above minor to play with the suitable adult club team also, be it senior, junior or junior b. They are now 17 having to do this. far better system the old age brackets for getting numbers and results in championships. Since the introduction of u-17 and u-20, alot of clubs have had issues. But maybe your one of these dinosaurs who actually doesn't know whats best for the actual club and players.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 642 - 02/12/2021 11:24:12 2391392 Link 0 |
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You arent the best at explaining things in your previous posts. I'm sure there were plenty of "deadwood" type players on those u21 teams you played in and managed without whom you wouldnt have had a team to play in or manage. I agree with the point you are making about u18 for minor and u21 instead of u20. Tbh the gap from u21 to adult was already probably too big of a jump. In other sports like professional soccer the grade is u23.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11831 - 02/12/2021 14:35:37 2391434 Link 0 |
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Okay. I think this is a simple misunderstanding and we're just at cross-purposes here. I happen to agree with you that the 18 and 21 age limits would serve better to bridge the gap between playing underage and playing adult. Bit like yourself, I'm particularly mindful of a lad who has a birthday around the middle of December. He'd be overage for minor (U17) at as little as 17 years and three weeks of age, so if he's not good enough or physically strong enough for adult competition yet, all he'd have in that year would be a bad U20 championship, probably shoehorned into one end of the year. But a separate issue, and where we went different ways, is how I thought you were also suggesting that a change back to U21 would also solve the other problems we currently have, and that these problems didn't arise in the past when it was U21 - i.e. when exactly to play the championships at all, how best to structure them, and how to work them around the adult championships. Those problems existed in the U21 days too. I can't agree with you that there were never amalgamations or hammerings back in the U21 days. I was involved myself with U21 football teams around 2010 to 2015, before moving mainly to younger age groups in the club. I remember one year winning a match by 22 points, and another year losing one by 28. I also remember coming up against outfits called Cusheen Gaels (Rathgarogue/Cushinstown/Clongeen), and Davidsgate (Davidstown/Courtnacuddy/Oylegate/Glenbrien - probably the longest name ever in Wexford GAA!). There were probably other amalgamations in different grades in those days too, that we just didn't happen to play against ourselves. As regards what's best for clubs and players - that's the thing we'd all like to agree on. But I think part of the problem is that what might be best for one might not always be seen as best for the other. Might seem a strange thing to say, but consider this - maybe best for the sort of 17-year-old (who's already out of minor) and 18-year-old players who are not yet up to adult standard would be a new U19 competition, run along the same lines as the U17 championships are currently run, with lots of meaningful games in both codes throughout the year. You could do this if the rule saying U17 players can't play at adult level was changed to say U19. But while that might be best for most players of that age, clubs would probably think it wouldn't be best for the clubs themselves, because they'd now have to wait an extra two years before being able to put their best young lads out in senior competition. Finally, just to point out that clubs themselves were balloted at the time as to whether they wanted U20 or U21, and the overall preference was for U20. It was a small majority all right, and maybe the result would be different now, but it's not as though Co. Board just plucked U20 out of the air, without giving any consideration to clubs at all. Realise this is a long post (even by my standards!) but hope it clarifies things. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2241 - 02/12/2021 14:55:35 2391439 Link 0 |
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I'm not sure of the solution but I think the age group at inter county and club don't have the mirror each other. E.g if u17 and u20 suits better at intercounty underage but u18 and u21 suit better for clubs I'd have no issue going with that. bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 02/12/2021 16:31:25 2391461 Link 0 |
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I like the idea of an additional under-19 grade, but I feel it would need to have a stipulation that anyone playing on the first team of their club cannot play in the new competition. Sort of a reverse of the current rule where an 18 year old can play two different grades provided they aren't on the same weekend up to the knock-outs. Otherwise, we'll have the usual excuse of "sure we have five lads playing senior this weekend" as a reason not to bother with it at all. More of the power-brokers might get on board too if it meant protecting their better players.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1416 - 02/12/2021 18:18:25 2391483 Link 0 |
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It would need some sort of stipulation all right, and as with all these things, the real devil is in the intricate detail. Not sure that just covering an U19 player on his club's first adult team would actually go far enough. The club's second and third (and even fourth, in some cases) teams could also be affected by U19 fixtures, if U19 players were allowed to line out for those adult teams as well. You could say any U19 player who lines out at any adult level loses his U19 status. But two potential problems there: 1 - if you've only got a panel of about 20 in the first place, and four or five of them get a run even with a Junior or Junior B team as the year goes on, suddenly you're under pressure to put out an U19 team at all. 2 - a danger that over time, the U19 games would come to be seen as "just games for the lads who aren't good enough to play with the men". Almost a sort of grown-up Go Games....for what some might call "deadwood". :) It might be worth exploring, all the same. As I keep saying, loads of other things have been tried over the years, without any of them ever being a lasting success. Maybe time to try something new, even if it does turn out to also be a failure. You'll never know if you don't try. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2241 - 03/12/2021 10:39:30 2391520 Link 0 |
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Kilnaerin,st martins, Gorey and oli/fintans all should win the weekend Lockerroomboy (Wexford) - Posts: 435 - 03/12/2021 13:31:10 2391541 Link 0 |
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in fairness clongeen put in up to one of the footballs great powerhouses, but they ran out of steam, im sure they are proud Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2841 - 04/12/2021 16:17:54 2391650 Link 0 |
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A very ill informed post, just because a team is from Kilkenny doesn't mean they automatically terrible, they're Kilkenny Intermediate champions, Mullinavat as Kilkenny Senior champions got to the Leinster Intermediate final in 2019. At club level you can't just judge a club purely based on their county, Tara Rocks beat a Dublin club by 28 points today in Junior hurling i don't think that means there's a crisis in Dublin hurling. bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 04/12/2021 16:50:50 2391655 Link 1 |
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As proud as Shane Quinn and David Jenkins are for getting them to that stage id imagine.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 642 - 05/12/2021 10:10:17 2391697 Link 0 |
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A bitter Cloughbawn man it seems.
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 05/12/2021 12:12:30 2391712 Link 0 |
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Not one bit associated with the club, attended the Clongeen and Cloughbawn match in Ross however.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 642 - 05/12/2021 12:37:13 2391715 Link 0 |
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And what, pray tell, did those two men do to favour Clongeen?
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 05/12/2021 12:50:27 2391719 Link 0 |