National Forum

Four-Point Goals

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I've seen it at under 16 and minor level where clubs had the numbers but entered the smaller numbers competition..I can't see why they wouldnt play in 15 a side competitions,there are levels of premier,a,b and sometimes c..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 1404 - 29/09/2021 11:02:10    2383475

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Replying To bloodyban:  "The big problem is throwing and over carrying in hurling. So I think that's where they should focus their attention. The weight of the hurling ball is being looked at right now.. Thats a big thing. Whether a goal is worth 3 points or 4..well I don't think it ll change much or add much to the game."
Funny thing is alot of opinion out there is 1 of the worst offenders for throwing is Cian Lynch, I'd would disagree with that viewpoint.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3686 - 29/09/2021 11:09:36    2383477

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Going by the posters on this thread there doesn't seem much support for Anthony Dalys 4 point goal idea.I'm not in favour of it,three points is adequate for a goal."
I wouldn't mind it being trialled in an National League.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3686 - 29/09/2021 11:10:36    2383478

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Replying To wexico15:  "Funny thing is alot of opinion out there is 1 of the worst offenders for throwing is Cian Lynch, I'd would disagree with that viewpoint."
*Wouldn't disagree*

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3686 - 29/09/2021 11:13:35    2383481

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Replying To wexico15:  "I wouldn't mind it being trialled in an National League."
I don't see the harm myself of maybe it trying it at some stage, in something like the League. But one aspect of Daly's suggestion that I seriously don't like, and which I don't think has been commented on here yet, is that the first goal scored would still be worth three points, and it's only any subsequent goals that would be worth four.

Say you're down by four points with a minute to go. If you're behind by 0-20 to 1-13, you'd just need to score once, because you've already got a goal, so another one would be worth the four points you're looking for.

But if you're behind by 0-20 to 0-16, you'd need to score twice, because a goal would be worth only three points to you, and that wouldn't be enough.

I reckon that whatever a goal is worth, it should always be worth the same.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 687 - 29/09/2021 11:36:47    2383487

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I wouldnt disagree either. The best teams play on the edge and see what they can get away with. If Cian Lynch can get away with a certain amount of throws without being punished then he will. All teams do it. I think it does need to be blown up...but we've been talking about this topic for years now.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1564 - 29/09/2021 12:10:02    2383490

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Well if they leave less players inside, then you are leaving the gate wide open for more goals. Isn't that what people want?"
Yes but that would involve having players fast enough to solo it in from the middle 3rd without being tackled by the chasing backs. Or break outs from the middle 3rd by multiple attackers playing the ball short between them while being chased by the opposing backs. There would be no long balls played, high fielding, very little contact at all outside the middle 3rd.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3229 - 29/09/2021 12:13:02    2383492

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Replying To Saynothing:  "So by your logic you could narrow the posts in for hurling to make it more difficult to score points."
How would that work for clubs that field both hurling and football teams which play on the same pitch/es?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3229 - 29/09/2021 12:15:15    2383493

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I don't see the harm myself of maybe it trying it at some stage, in something like the League. But one aspect of Daly's suggestion that I seriously don't like, and which I don't think has been commented on here yet, is that the first goal scored would still be worth three points, and it's only any subsequent goals that would be worth four.

Say you're down by four points with a minute to go. If you're behind by 0-20 to 1-13, you'd just need to score once, because you've already got a goal, so another one would be worth the four points you're looking for.

But if you're behind by 0-20 to 0-16, you'd need to score twice, because a goal would be worth only three points to you, and that wouldn't be enough.

I reckon that whatever a goal is worth, it should always be worth the same."
I'd agree with this, hasn't been mentioned but I'd have no interest in 2 points for a sideline. A few reasons it would slow the game down as understandably teams would take a lot of time to maximise a 2 point scoring opportunity. Also could see lads soloing close to the sideline hoping a defender gets a flick, block etc in. Worst of all good defending particularly in the closing stages of a tight game could get punished, e.g team a point up in injury time, defender makes a brilliant block to prevent a potential equalising point, in doing so concedes a sideline which the opposition hit over the bar to win the game.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3686 - 29/09/2021 12:42:30    2383501

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I'm still not sure what problem 4 point goals is intended to solve. We had no shortage of goals in this years championship.
What we did have, was some one side scorelines, and I think that could be made worse by increasing goal value. For instance, Wexford beat Laois in the Leinster QF by 20 points, 5-31 to 1-23. If a goal was worth 4 points, the margin would have bee 24 points. If it was worth 5, 28.

I'm not saying we don't have some serious issues in hurling that need to be dealt with, but the scoring system is way down the list. The pulling/dragging,/holding ("tackling"), the ball throwing, the 4 step rule unofficially becoming an 8 step rule, are issues that have to be tackled. I hope thats where the powers that be focus on, if they go down that route. Although that doesn't really require change, just application of the rules.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1818 - 29/09/2021 13:48:27    2383518

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Replying To Viking66:  "How would that work for clubs that field both hurling and football teams which play on the same pitch/es?"
I suspect he was trying to make some ill-conceived point about how there shouldn't be differences in the rules between hurling and football. Remember he was the one who claimed you couldn't have a goal being worth four points in one game but only three in the other.

He ignores the fact that there are already many differences between them. For example, the advanced mark rule in football, whatever he or anybody else might think about the merits of it. Must irritate him that it doesn't apply in hurling as well.

And he must be driven mad altogether by how hurling players are allowed to use a stick to reach and control a ball that's out of arm's reach, whereas football players can't do the same. After all, if you can't have differences between how the games are played, then that's not really on, is it??? :)

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 687 - 29/09/2021 13:49:16    2383519

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I suspect he was trying to make some ill-conceived point about how there shouldn't be differences in the rules between hurling and football. Remember he was the one who claimed you couldn't have a goal being worth four points in one game but only three in the other.

He ignores the fact that there are already many differences between them. For example, the advanced mark rule in football, whatever he or anybody else might think about the merits of it. Must irritate him that it doesn't apply in hurling as well.

And he must be driven mad altogether by how hurling players are allowed to use a stick to reach and control a ball that's out of arm's reach, whereas football players can't do the same. After all, if you can't have differences between how the games are played, then that's not really on, is it??? :)"
:-D

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3229 - 29/09/2021 15:22:15    2383542

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Funny I was thinking were they making the football from different material from the 80s? A 50 back then was a massive kick, now u16s are kicking them."
Completely disagree. Back in the 80s and 90s every County team had an outfield player who could kick 45s regularly. Stafford and Tomkins come to mind. Nowadays the only County players kicking 45s seem to be goalkeepers and they miss half of them.

Mailman98 (Galway) - Posts: 317 - 30/09/2021 08:15:37    2383594

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The only justification for introducing extra point goals is as part of a handicapping system e.g. when a division 1 team meets a division 3 or 4 team in championship football. The lower division team gets 4 or 5 points for a goal, the higher division team still gets 3. Many sports use handicapping to level the field. It should definitely be trialled in Gaelic football.
Not much wrong with hurling at the moment although the way things are going Limerick might soon have to be handicapped such is the gap between them and the rest.

Mailman98 (Galway) - Posts: 317 - 30/09/2021 08:29:06    2383600

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