National Forum

Four-Point Goals

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Hurling games are racking up huge scores in recent years. It's almost making it boring…is the ball lighter or are players just more skilful?"
The dimensions, quality, and consistency of hurls is also a major factor. Particularly the dimensions of the bas. The diameter of the bas should be no more than 13cm but this rule isn't being enforced at all. This makes controlling the ball and striking it further far easier than it was in the past.

Yes the players are extremely skilful nowadays but the dimensions of their hurls makes controlling the ball and striking the ball much easier.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13493 - 27/09/2021 10:40:32    2383124

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Replying To MesAmis:  "The dimensions, quality, and consistency of hurls is also a major factor. Particularly the dimensions of the bas. The diameter of the bas should be no more than 13cm but this rule isn't being enforced at all. This makes controlling the ball and striking it further far easier than it was in the past.

Yes the players are extremely skilful nowadays but the dimensions of their hurls makes controlling the ball and striking the ball much easier."
Definitely, and I should probably have said that too, instead of just talking about the ball.

Interesting piece here, including pics that compare hurls of the 1990s to the hurls of today:
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0815/1069043-hurling-bas/

Far easier to control and hit the ball with a larger hurl, simply because it has a larger "sweet spot".

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 954 - 27/09/2021 11:58:56    2383146

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Hurling games are racking up huge scores in recent years. It's almost making it boring…is the ball lighter or are players just more skilful?"
Funny I was thinking were they making the football from different material from the 80s? A 50 back then was a massive kick, now u16s are kicking them.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1269 - 27/09/2021 13:16:35    2383164

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Funny I was thinking were they making the football from different material from the 80s? A 50 back then was a massive kick, now u16s are kicking them."
All true. I was not having a pop at hurling. Just genuinely interested. The soccer ball was very heavy too back in the day. Current soccer balls are very light.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10999 - 27/09/2021 13:35:34    2383169

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Replying To yew_tree:  "All true. I was not having a pop at hurling. Just genuinely interested. The soccer ball was very heavy too back in the day. Current soccer balls are very light."
Think it was so heavy it was actually causing head and neck injuries in soccer.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5541 - 27/09/2021 13:59:25    2383174

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Replying To Viking66:  "Think it was so heavy it was actually causing head and neck injuries in soccer."
And you'd wonder about heading that heavy ball and the amount of ex footballers who are being diagnosed with dementia.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10999 - 27/09/2021 17:53:56    2383216

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The big problem is throwing and over carrying in hurling. So I think that's where they should focus their attention. The weight of the hurling ball is being looked at right now.. Thats a big thing. Whether a goal is worth 3 points or 4..well I don't think it ll change much or add much to the game.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1697 - 27/09/2021 18:05:22    2383220

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Going by the posters on this thread there doesn't seem much support for Anthony Dalys 4 point goal idea.I'm not in favour of it,three points is adequate for a goal.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 27/09/2021 19:50:51    2383235

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Surely making a goal more valuable would make teams even more defensive"
Agree. It would be a massive own goal.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 28/09/2021 08:38:26    2383252

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Replying To yew_tree:  "And you'd wonder about heading that heavy ball and the amount of ex footballers who are being diagnosed with dementia."
Definitely Yew_tree

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5541 - 28/09/2021 10:24:23    2383266

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Definitely, and I should probably have said that too, instead of just talking about the ball.

Interesting piece here, including pics that compare hurls of the 1990s to the hurls of today:
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0815/1069043-hurling-bas/

Far easier to control and hit the ball with a larger hurl, simply because it has a larger "sweet spot"."
Yes hurls are better quality and the ball is made of different material all be it a slight bit heavier now, remember top players play with new balls all through the match which is a big difference too. But the hurlers are more skillful now and each line of the field are comfortable in possession and have great touches. You rairly see balls being spilled any more. The defence now don't hit in hailmary balls anymore they give a good ball to the player in the best position which makes a difference in relation to scoring chances. Puckout have changed also teams have realised that the goal keeper will have way more free possessions than any other players on the pitch, so why would you give it away, players have had had to become more skillful to deal with short puchouts and the possession game. Also the condition of players have to be taken into account. Players now are in way better shape are bigger and are able to cover more ground. The more good training you do the better you become at it. The day is gone that your backs only defend, they now have to be able to take short pukouts, break tackles, attack and be good in possession. Same as goal keeper shot stopping is probably not as important as the puckout!

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 232 - 28/09/2021 11:37:55    2383292

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Honestly, I think hurling should be reduced to 13 a side before looking at things like this.
Players at club level even are so fit now that space is totally stifled and the pitch crowded, particularly between the 2 45's.
More space allows more creative players space.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1613 - 28/09/2021 12:30:10    2383305

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Honestly, I think hurling should be reduced to 13 a side before looking at things like this.
Players at club level even are so fit now that space is totally stifled and the pitch crowded, particularly between the 2 45's.
More space allows more creative players space."
Problem with the 13 aside is it wont free up the middle 3rd. Teams will just leave even less players inside and then there wont be the need to mark them either.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5541 - 28/09/2021 14:27:33    2383345

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Honestly, I think hurling should be reduced to 13 a side before looking at things like this.
Players at club level even are so fit now that space is totally stifled and the pitch crowded, particularly between the 2 45's.
More space allows more creative players space."
I agree. Especially given that so many small rural clubs struggle to field a team at present. 13 a side would also aid weaker counties to be more competitive when taking on the big boys because generally they tend to be a few top class hurlers short of what's needed to hold their own against the top teams

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1687 - 28/09/2021 14:50:06    2383354

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Leave hurling alone,we don't need any changes,plain and simple.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 626 - 28/09/2021 15:54:11    2383381

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I like the idea of trying 13 a side,it may help some struggling clubs who just havnt got numbers..however I have seen 13 a side competitions in our own county and clubs having anything up to 30 players togged out..I don't know how that would be dealt with..I wouldn't mind seeing a trial of 4 points for a goal,maybe try it for a 2 year period in the league,then make a decision after that..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 1740 - 28/09/2021 17:27:39    2383407

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Replying To omahant:  "Can't see why both codes MUST HAVE uniform same pts for a goal - 45s and 65s are different."
So by your logic you could narrow the posts in for hurling to make it more difficult to score points.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1269 - 28/09/2021 20:37:53    2383438

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Replying To Viking66:  "Problem with the 13 aside is it wont free up the middle 3rd. Teams will just leave even less players inside and then there wont be the need to mark them either."
Well if they leave less players inside, then you are leaving the gate wide open for more goals. Isn't that what people want?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1613 - 29/09/2021 10:13:01    2383461

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I like the idea of trying 13 a side,it may help some struggling clubs who just havnt got numbers..however I have seen 13 a side competitions in our own county and clubs having anything up to 30 players togged out..I don't know how that would be dealt with..I wouldn't mind seeing a trial of 4 points for a goal,maybe try it for a 2 year period in the league,then make a decision after that.."
At what age is that a problem?
If it is adult, then the clubs should try field an extra team?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1613 - 29/09/2021 10:13:30    2383462

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Replying To Saynothing:  "So by your logic you could narrow the posts in for hurling to make it more difficult to score points."
You could do that but the practical problem would be replacing zillions of goal posts around the country.

Making a goal worth four points would be simple. It's not a fair comparison.

Having said that, I'm against it.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 29/09/2021 10:54:42    2383472

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