National Forum

Four-Point Goals

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Intriguing idea in GAA Comcast to give hurling a boost.

Given free flowing points from all angles, I feel hurling needs 5-point goals, leaving football at 3.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2162 - 25/09/2021 18:11:14    2382898

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So where do the four-point goals of the thread title come in???? :)

Interesting idea, though. MIght be worth trialling in a National League or some other competition sometime, the way so many other experimental rules are tried.

I remember a few years ago there was a trial of a rule for two points if a point was scored direct from a sideline cut, so it's not as though there's no precedent for such things.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 798 - 25/09/2021 20:40:07    2382920

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "So where do the four-point goals of the thread title come in???? :)

Interesting idea, though. MIght be worth trialling in a National League or some other competition sometime, the way so many other experimental rules are tried.

I remember a few years ago there was a trial of a rule for two points if a point was scored direct from a sideline cut, so it's not as though there's no precedent for such things."
When was a 2 point sideline cut trialled in hurling?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1819 - 25/09/2021 20:53:14    2382924

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "So where do the four-point goals of the thread title come in???? :)

Interesting idea, though. MIght be worth trialling in a National League or some other competition sometime, the way so many other experimental rules are tried.

I remember a few years ago there was a trial of a rule for two points if a point was scored direct from a sideline cut, so it's not as though there's no precedent for such things."
Idea by Anthony Daly in link below

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0923/1248643-hurling-should-trial-four-point-goals-anthony-daly/

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2162 - 26/09/2021 07:31:10    2382937

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "When was a 2 point sideline cut trialled in hurling?"
I'd have said sometime in the late noughties myself, but turns out it's as far back as 2005:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_National_Hurling_League

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It was definitely tried, though.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 798 - 26/09/2021 08:52:21    2382939

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Why not start by applying the existing rules first. Reduce the amount of throwing the ball and overcarrying the ball and you will have a lot less points.
I havnt seen the stats but was there not a big increase in the number of goals in this years championship?

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 648 - 26/09/2021 10:20:16    2382945

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I wouldn't be opposed to trying it out.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 957 - 26/09/2021 10:25:29    2382946

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Problem with making goals worth more is that it might make hurling managers more defensive minded. More backs to stifle goal threats.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3494 - 26/09/2021 13:14:06    2382978

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Replying To Viking66:  "Problem with making goals worth more is that it might make hurling managers more defensive minded. More backs to stifle goal threats."
Thought Davy had left Wexford ?

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1359 - 26/09/2021 14:49:27    2383005

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I'd have said sometime in the late noughties myself, but turns out it's as far back as 2005:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_National_Hurling_League

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It was definitely tried, though."
Wow, fair play, I had no memory of that (and I was at league games in 2005).

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1819 - 26/09/2021 15:03:30    2383009

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Replying To Viking66:  "Problem with making goals worth more is that it might make hurling managers more defensive minded. More backs to stifle goal threats."
That would leave unmarked opponents out in the field popping over certain points. Blanket defense has no value unlike football.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2162 - 26/09/2021 15:09:04    2383012

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Replying To carlovia:  "Thought Davy had left Wexford ?"
Davy used the sweeper more as a quarterback in NFL the last few years. Foley played nearer the halfback line than the fullback line. And was a forward most of his intercounty career before that. Played centre forward on the last Leinster u21 winning team he was on.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3494 - 26/09/2021 17:02:06    2383030

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Replying To omahant:  "That would leave unmarked opponents out in the field popping over certain points. Blanket defense has no value unlike football."
Not really. They would probably play less forwards not less midfielders. Dont get me wrong I still think it's well worth a try and I suggested it myself a couple of years ago on this forum. That argument against it at the time got me thinking though.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3494 - 26/09/2021 17:04:06    2383031

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Replying To omahant:  "Intriguing idea in GAA Comcast to give hurling a boost.

Given free flowing points from all angles, I feel hurling needs 5-point goals, leaving football at 3."
Can't make a difference in the two sports, on your point about 5 point goals, did Tyrone not win by enough?

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1018 - 26/09/2021 17:22:39    2383035

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Can't make a difference in the two sports, on your point about 5 point goals, did Tyrone not win by enough?"
Can't see why both codes MUST HAVE uniform same pts for a goal - 45s and 65s are different.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2162 - 26/09/2021 18:02:41    2383044

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Replying To omahant:  "Can't see why both codes MUST HAVE uniform same pts for a goal - 45s and 65s are different."
As are the distances from which penalties are taken. And both differences for very good reasons.

Absolutely no reason why the scoring system couldn't be different in both games. Come to think of it, that's evidenced even by the 2005 experiment of two points for a score directly from a sideline cut in hurling. There wasn't two points on offer in football at the time for scoring directly from a line ball there.

I still think the four- or even five-point goal is an interesting idea, and might be worth a try.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 798 - 26/09/2021 18:40:37    2383053

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Hurling games are racking up huge scores in recent years. It's almost making it boring…is the ball lighter or are players just more skilful?

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10843 - 27/09/2021 08:13:38    2383102

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Surely making a goal more valuable would make teams even more defensive

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 312 - 27/09/2021 09:15:17    2383105

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It seems to me that there are far too many rule changes made in Gaelic games, I agree we need to restructure the Championship to give teams at all levels a chance to win a National at their own level,
One new change I would like to see is bans being brought in for diving and feigning injury, using video evidence after the match if need be, I suppose we'll end up going down the VAR route as we seem to copy a lot of things from soccer.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1824 - 27/09/2021 10:04:37    2383115

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Hurling games are racking up huge scores in recent years. It's almost making it boring…is the ball lighter or are players just more skilful?"
Asking if today's players are more skilful than those from former years is a bit like asking if today's Leaving Cert students are more intelligent that students of 20 or 30 years ago, because there are more top grades handed out now. :)

Seriously though, the ball definitely plays a large part in it. The modern-day ball might be a bit lighter to begin with, but I reckon a bigger difference is that it doesn't absorb nearly as much water as older balls did, so the balls of today never really get any heavier. Another thing is the rim on them is a bit smaller today, so there's less drag as they move through the air.

My own senior & junior playing days were throughout the 1990s and into the 2000s. I wasn't able then to drive a ball over the bar from the halfway line. Now, some 20 years older and way out of practice, I'm able to do it. It simply has to be the ball, because there's no way I've become more skilful!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 798 - 27/09/2021 10:30:59    2383121

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