National Forum

What Changes Will Jack O'Connor Make?

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


I see Tyrone man, Paddy Tally, may also be involved. He's supposed to be good, the traitor : )

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1074 - 25/09/2021 13:48:20    2382859

Link

That was part of the deal. Kerry give Tyrone the extra weeks for the championship and they give us Paddy Tally ha ha

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2791 - 25/09/2021 15:50:57    2382874

Link

I think he should drop O'Shea and Clifford to show the other players that he'll take no sh*t :D

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8285 - 25/09/2021 21:15:29    2382931

Link

Replying To essmac:  "I see Tyrone man, Paddy Tally, may also be involved. He's supposed to be good, the traitor : )"
It'll be interesting if Kerry meet Tyrone in the 2022 championship (league doesn't count), with Joe McMahon involved with Tyrone, and Jack back with Kerry. I remember after the 2008 semi-final, where Tyrone comfortably beat Dublin, and where Joe played a stormer at no. 12 , including a great goal, saying to 3-4 Kerry mates of mine: "Yeah, but Joe won't be no. 12 for the final. He'll be no. 2 or no. 3. Who else in Tyrone could mark Donaghy or Tommy Walsh (the Twin Towers at the time?" They thought I was mad. These Kerry lads wouldn't wouldn't even entertain my premonition at the time, until it actually happened. I don't claim to be an expert on Gaelic football, but since that time, I've always been able to claim the higher moral ground on the Kerry folk.

Joe McMahon sacrificed an All-Star that year, by splitting two majestic performances between two different positions. His brother Justin (a fine player too, just cursed by injuries) won an All-Star at full-back in 2008. I'd say any Tyrone person would acknowledge that Joe was a more complete footballer than Justin. What position didn't Joe Mc play in for the county?

I admire players like Joe McMahon, who sacrifice their own game and fame, for the sake of the team. It is a team game after all. Invariably, this type of player goes on to become a good coach/manager. Sean Lowry was another such player. He played any where he was ever asked and needed by Offaly. On being once asked, "What is it like to play for Eugene McGee?", Lowry replied, "I play for the Offaly jersey, not for anything or anyone else.". Men who put the jersey above, even their own individual game! Kudos!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 790 - 26/09/2021 08:09:11    2382938

Link

Replying To foreveryoung:  "It'll be interesting if Kerry meet Tyrone in the 2022 championship (league doesn't count), with Joe McMahon involved with Tyrone, and Jack back with Kerry. I remember after the 2008 semi-final, where Tyrone comfortably beat Dublin, and where Joe played a stormer at no. 12 , including a great goal, saying to 3-4 Kerry mates of mine: "Yeah, but Joe won't be no. 12 for the final. He'll be no. 2 or no. 3. Who else in Tyrone could mark Donaghy or Tommy Walsh (the Twin Towers at the time?" They thought I was mad. These Kerry lads wouldn't wouldn't even entertain my premonition at the time, until it actually happened. I don't claim to be an expert on Gaelic football, but since that time, I've always been able to claim the higher moral ground on the Kerry folk.

Joe McMahon sacrificed an All-Star that year, by splitting two majestic performances between two different positions. His brother Justin (a fine player too, just cursed by injuries) won an All-Star at full-back in 2008. I'd say any Tyrone person would acknowledge that Joe was a more complete footballer than Justin. What position didn't Joe Mc play in for the county?

I admire players like Joe McMahon, who sacrifice their own game and fame, for the sake of the team. It is a team game after all. Invariably, this type of player goes on to become a good coach/manager. Sean Lowry was another such player. He played any where he was ever asked and needed by Offaly. On being once asked, "What is it like to play for Eugene McGee?", Lowry replied, "I play for the Offaly jersey, not for anything or anyone else.". Men who put the jersey above, even their own individual game! Kudos!"
Tyrone beat Wexford in the 08 allireland semifinal not dublin.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13993 - 26/09/2021 10:38:59    2382949

Link

Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Tyrone beat Wexford in the 08 allireland semifinal not dublin."
Correct! I confused it with the quarter-final. My point still stands, that way before the final, I predicted that Joe McMahon would be switched from the forwards to the backs. Not a massive awareness in hindsight, but at the time, I could see it happening way, probably before most people, even the pundits. I don't get a lot right about GAA, but at least let me credit myself with getting that right.

I'm more concerned now with the battle of wits between the likes of Jack and Joe, rather than looking back on the past.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 790 - 26/09/2021 10:55:12    2382953

Link

It's an interesting appointment. Three All Ireland successes in the 00's, but against Mayo and Cork, no disrespect but I think Tyrone in the 00s and Dublin since 2010 were better teams he struggled against. That said he knows his way around a County set up, knows then lie of the land down the south east and county expectations. I think he knows some of the current lads well from his stints at minor and U20. So there may be that continuity there.

He ca n put a system in place, frustrated the life out of us this year in the Leinster final, though it was a performance that lacked ambition or any real win to win the game. If he can find the right balance between being a competent ent defence and hurting, he will do well, Kerry struggling there and for a bit of nous, that Jack may bring. Maybe it's an experienced head like his needed on that score.

The ticket is interesting, Quirke didn't pull up any trees in Leinster, but you hear good sounds about him. Paddy Tally, as we know is a master of defensive systems, perhaps overly so, but his teams grind results, something Kerry have failed to do for a long time now. Again how his approach adds to achieving balance is key.

It's less about the people and more about skill sets for me, where have Kerry struggled? Tactically, defensively, in game intelligence, management and achieving balance and coherence in team play. I think these are areas the ticket bring experience and skill too. So I'd be hopeful enough.

A note on the process, I think it was a bit of a done deal since Jack left Kildare, fair chance he got a tap on the shoulder and the process was always going to him and a bit of a smoke screen to make it look like they weren't poaching another county's manager.

A word on Keane never rated Keane much, I thought he was out of his depth. I think playing the gombeen backfired on him, when he didn't have success at the top table and he almost became a carton character in the end. He brought it in and blooded a heap of lads and a much different panel to when he arrived so fair play. Felt for him a bit the way it ended for him, never nice.

Personally if it was me I would have given it to Fitzmaurice again, he has his critics in the south east and it didn't end well for him with the county personally and I think that would impact him. I still think he's the best tactician in Kerry and likely the best manager, kept them at the top table for years with more limited players then they currently have and snagged one in 14.

Best of luck to Jack though, hopefully we get a chance to compete him next year, but let's see.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4188 - 26/09/2021 11:42:56    2382960

Link

Replying To foreveryoung:  "Correct! I confused it with the quarter-final. My point still stands, that way before the final, I predicted that Joe McMahon would be switched from the forwards to the backs. Not a massive awareness in hindsight, but at the time, I could see it happening way, probably before most people, even the pundits. I don't get a lot right about GAA, but at least let me credit myself with getting that right.

I'm more concerned now with the battle of wits between the likes of Jack and Joe, rather than looking back on the past."
Fair play, I for 1 didn't see that move happening in 08, I was in the hill for the final and got to see the 2 McMahons dismantle the twin towers that day,

As far as Jack O'Connor and what he might bring, obviously he'll bring massive experiences, what I'm looking at is has he learnt from his mistakes in the past of which he has made a few and has he evolved to the new styles of football as a manager, and will he listen to his generals.

There isn't a whole pile between Tyrone Kerry Donegal Mayo Monaghan Galway, we need to tighten our defence without blunting our attack and cut out the silly mistakes (ala the Jack Barry volley ) that's where tally comes in I guess, we need a centre back and midfielder to replace Moran should he decide to call it quits.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13993 - 26/09/2021 12:05:50    2382963

Link

Replying To TheUsername:  "It's an interesting appointment. Three All Ireland successes in the 00's, but against Mayo and Cork, no disrespect but I think Tyrone in the 00s and Dublin since 2010 were better teams he struggled against. That said he knows his way around a County set up, knows then lie of the land down the south east and county expectations. I think he knows some of the current lads well from his stints at minor and U20. So there may be that continuity there.

He ca n put a system in place, frustrated the life out of us this year in the Leinster final, though it was a performance that lacked ambition or any real win to win the game. If he can find the right balance between being a competent ent defence and hurting, he will do well, Kerry struggling there and for a bit of nous, that Jack may bring. Maybe it's an experienced head like his needed on that score.

The ticket is interesting, Quirke didn't pull up any trees in Leinster, but you hear good sounds about him. Paddy Tally, as we know is a master of defensive systems, perhaps overly so, but his teams grind results, something Kerry have failed to do for a long time now. Again how his approach adds to achieving balance is key.

It's less about the people and more about skill sets for me, where have Kerry struggled? Tactically, defensively, in game intelligence, management and achieving balance and coherence in team play. I think these are areas the ticket bring experience and skill too. So I'd be hopeful enough.

A note on the process, I think it was a bit of a done deal since Jack left Kildare, fair chance he got a tap on the shoulder and the process was always going to him and a bit of a smoke screen to make it look like they weren't poaching another county's manager.

A word on Keane never rated Keane much, I thought he was out of his depth. I think playing the gombeen backfired on him, when he didn't have success at the top table and he almost became a carton character in the end. He brought it in and blooded a heap of lads and a much different panel to when he arrived so fair play. Felt for him a bit the way it ended for him, never nice.

Personally if it was me I would have given it to Fitzmaurice again, he has his critics in the south east and it didn't end well for him with the county personally and I think that would impact him. I still think he's the best tactician in Kerry and likely the best manager, kept them at the top table for years with more limited players then they currently have and snagged one in 14.

Best of luck to Jack though, hopefully we get a chance to compete him next year, but let's see."
South West! ;)

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4188 - 26/09/2021 12:11:25    2382968

Link

I like him as a manager, very committed to kerry football,a selector under Páidí and as a manager won all Irelands in 2 stints and also won minor and u21 all Irelands too, and it's only fair to mention re the Tyrone issue his record is 1-1.
If they are to win it next year it'll be 18 years since his first Sam in 2004, can't offhand think of such a large gap between all Ireland success for a manager (Cody won one in 2000 and 2015).

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 957 - 26/09/2021 12:41:52    2382973

Link

Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Fair play, I for 1 didn't see that move happening in 08, I was in the hill for the final and got to see the 2 McMahons dismantle the twin towers that day,

As far as Jack O'Connor and what he might bring, obviously he'll bring massive experiences, what I'm looking at is has he learnt from his mistakes in the past of which he has made a few and has he evolved to the new styles of football as a manager, and will he listen to his generals.

There isn't a whole pile between Tyrone Kerry Donegal Mayo Monaghan Galway, we need to tighten our defence without blunting our attack and cut out the silly mistakes (ala the Jack Barry volley ) that's where tally comes in I guess, we need a centre back and midfielder to replace Moran should he decide to call it quits."
I don't think that Jack's appointment is a bad appointment. On the contrary, actually. So many counties would love to have Jack and his team.

However, in Kerry 'not a bad appointment' might not suffice. I'm sure they're expecting Jack to deliver Sam
ala 2022. Paidi (RIP) hit the nail on the head when he described the Kerry supporters as a shower of fkn animals (and it's a compliment in my eyes), but it does bring with it, probably the most pressure-intense job in sports management; and that includes the professional sports like the EFL and the NFL.

I would have loved to see what Seamus Moynihan would bring to management, though (might yet happen in the future), becoz pound for pound he was probably the finest player I've ever seen play the game (just slightly behind JackO, imho).

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 790 - 26/09/2021 13:17:32    2382980

Link

Replying To realdub:  "I think he should drop O'Shea and Clifford to show the other players that he'll take no sh*t :D"
Brilliant! Nice one Realdub

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2791 - 26/09/2021 13:38:07    2382987

Link

Replying To TheUsername:  "It's an interesting appointment. Three All Ireland successes in the 00's, but against Mayo and Cork, no disrespect but I think Tyrone in the 00s and Dublin since 2010 were better teams he struggled against. That said he knows his way around a County set up, knows then lie of the land down the south east and county expectations. I think he knows some of the current lads well from his stints at minor and U20. So there may be that continuity there.

He ca n put a system in place, frustrated the life out of us this year in the Leinster final, though it was a performance that lacked ambition or any real win to win the game. If he can find the right balance between being a competent ent defence and hurting, he will do well, Kerry struggling there and for a bit of nous, that Jack may bring. Maybe it's an experienced head like his needed on that score.

The ticket is interesting, Quirke didn't pull up any trees in Leinster, but you hear good sounds about him. Paddy Tally, as we know is a master of defensive systems, perhaps overly so, but his teams grind results, something Kerry have failed to do for a long time now. Again how his approach adds to achieving balance is key.

It's less about the people and more about skill sets for me, where have Kerry struggled? Tactically, defensively, in game intelligence, management and achieving balance and coherence in team play. I think these are areas the ticket bring experience and skill too. So I'd be hopeful enough.

A note on the process, I think it was a bit of a done deal since Jack left Kildare, fair chance he got a tap on the shoulder and the process was always going to him and a bit of a smoke screen to make it look like they weren't poaching another county's manager.

A word on Keane never rated Keane much, I thought he was out of his depth. I think playing the gombeen backfired on him, when he didn't have success at the top table and he almost became a carton character in the end. He brought it in and blooded a heap of lads and a much different panel to when he arrived so fair play. Felt for him a bit the way it ended for him, never nice.

Personally if it was me I would have given it to Fitzmaurice again, he has his critics in the south east and it didn't end well for him with the county personally and I think that would impact him. I still think he's the best tactician in Kerry and likely the best manager, kept them at the top table for years with more limited players then they currently have and snagged one in 14.

Best of luck to Jack though, hopefully we get a chance to compete him next year, but let's see."
Yes Username it's an interesting pick alright. Tbf Jack as manager only faced Tyrone twice in championship. A loss in 08 final and a win in 12 qualifiers. Against Dubs as Kerry manager he won twice in quarter finals and lost once in 11 final but even many Dubs admit Kerry did not get rub of green that day. However I'm not overly happy with his appointment as I did nt like his style with Kildare and I felt he did nt show Kildare much loyalty either. I also agree I'd say he knew more than he let on. Anyway if he brings success I will be happy but like yourself I think Fitzmaurice is a better tactician. A bit slow to mix things up when not working but a great football mind. Kerry need to solidify defense more but I'd be worried Tally might stifle our attacking prowess. Quirke yes he did nt do much with Laois but anytime I hear him speak he sounds very football smart. Anyway the deal is done now andits all about results now. On Keane I did nt want him from the start but felt for him in the finish. I was starting to warm to him.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2791 - 26/09/2021 13:59:27    2382992

Link

Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Fair play, I for 1 didn't see that move happening in 08, I was in the hill for the final and got to see the 2 McMahons dismantle the twin towers that day,

As far as Jack O'Connor and what he might bring, obviously he'll bring massive experiences, what I'm looking at is has he learnt from his mistakes in the past of which he has made a few and has he evolved to the new styles of football as a manager, and will he listen to his generals.

There isn't a whole pile between Tyrone Kerry Donegal Mayo Monaghan Galway, we need to tighten our defence without blunting our attack and cut out the silly mistakes (ala the Jack Barry volley ) that's where tally comes in I guess, we need a centre back and midfielder to replace Moran should he decide to call it quits."
Agreed there isn't a whole pile between Tyrone Kerry Donegal Mayo Monaghan Galway,
unfortunately Dublin have fallen away from the top 6 -;)

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2792 - 27/09/2021 09:39:59    2383111

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes Username it's an interesting pick alright. Tbf Jack as manager only faced Tyrone twice in championship. A loss in 08 final and a win in 12 qualifiers. Against Dubs as Kerry manager he won twice in quarter finals and lost once in 11 final but even many Dubs admit Kerry did not get rub of green that day. However I'm not overly happy with his appointment as I did nt like his style with Kildare and I felt he did nt show Kildare much loyalty either. I also agree I'd say he knew more than he let on. Anyway if he brings success I will be happy but like yourself I think Fitzmaurice is a better tactician. A bit slow to mix things up when not working but a great football mind. Kerry need to solidify defense more but I'd be worried Tally might stifle our attacking prowess. Quirke yes he did nt do much with Laois but anytime I hear him speak he sounds very football smart. Anyway the deal is done now andits all about results now. On Keane I did nt want him from the start but felt for him in the finish. I was starting to warm to him."
Fair play Mick. I remember the one thing i used to admire about Jacks teams in the 00s and the Kerry teams under him was their composure to retain pocession, manage a game, hold the ball and dictate the pace of the game. It came a cropper in 2011, but we were ravenous and all good teams eventually get caught at it, its the life cycle - no more then Mayo catching us out this year doing the same thing. Its those former skills i mentioned i think if Jack can imprint will benefit Kerry. While Tally will get a system in place, Its striking the balance that is going to be the key. For me Id share the load a bit up front to, Id make Clifford less of a focal point. Its too telegraphed now, teams know if you stop, minimise, isolate Clifford and O Shea you stop Kerry, not easy but not impossible either. Greater variance in phases of play and options needed up front, despite it all looking rosy on paper. Id also use both both sparingly in NFL as well, an NFL is going to teach either or Kerry anything new at this stage in their development. That said the Kerry public will want a bit of hope and a sign of green shoots from Jan - March.

Is my memory right that Keane pipped Jack to the managers job back in 2018? Gas how it goes.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4188 - 27/09/2021 11:38:38    2383142

Link

Replying To TheUsername:  "Fair play Mick. I remember the one thing i used to admire about Jacks teams in the 00s and the Kerry teams under him was their composure to retain pocession, manage a game, hold the ball and dictate the pace of the game. It came a cropper in 2011, but we were ravenous and all good teams eventually get caught at it, its the life cycle - no more then Mayo catching us out this year doing the same thing. Its those former skills i mentioned i think if Jack can imprint will benefit Kerry. While Tally will get a system in place, Its striking the balance that is going to be the key. For me Id share the load a bit up front to, Id make Clifford less of a focal point. Its too telegraphed now, teams know if you stop, minimise, isolate Clifford and O Shea you stop Kerry, not easy but not impossible either. Greater variance in phases of play and options needed up front, despite it all looking rosy on paper. Id also use both both sparingly in NFL as well, an NFL is going to teach either or Kerry anything new at this stage in their development. That said the Kerry public will want a bit of hope and a sign of green shoots from Jan - March.

Is my memory right that Keane pipped Jack to the managers job back in 2018? Gas how it goes."
I kind of forget about who were the candidates in 18 with Keane. Jack's name was mentioned but not sure if he was in the race. On the ball retention thing it was done more so by manager Pat Ó Shea in 07 and 08 during his 2 year tenure (a basketball International aswell as a good footballer). Agree Username if Tally is part of team striking the ballance is so vital. Also agree in the Clifford Ó Shea over reliance and hopefully Jack will address this. On Jack he is very fond of the big full forward so I would nt be surprised to see a few big men tried in there.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2791 - 27/09/2021 13:12:38    2383163

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I kind of forget about who were the candidates in 18 with Keane. Jack's name was mentioned but not sure if he was in the race. On the ball retention thing it was done more so by manager Pat Ó Shea in 07 and 08 during his 2 year tenure (a basketball International aswell as a good footballer). Agree Username if Tally is part of team striking the ballance is so vital. Also agree in the Clifford Ó Shea over reliance and hopefully Jack will address this. On Jack he is very fond of the big full forward so I would nt be surprised to see a few big men tried in there."
Sound Mick - i used to watch Kerry in 00s and really admire how they could control a game and in paritcular pace, change the pace at the right moment and take the sting out i remember when they started knocking around in front of our blanket in 11, thinking it was ominous, thankfully - what the hell do i know.

Whats the craic with S/C and Mick, i noticed watching the highlights of the semi that a lot of lads were pulling up with cramp, then in ET as well - which is understandable. But its surprising to see this day and age, isnt there a dedicated lad who was brought in full time to over see S/C a couple of year back. Maybe something on Jacks To Do list. Maybe the long stretch between games wasnt helpful. Its so important now, we were caught this year as well, Mayo had way better fitness and conditioning then us and mullered us in ET.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4188 - 27/09/2021 14:21:09    2383177

Link

Replying To TheUsername:  "Sound Mick - i used to watch Kerry in 00s and really admire how they could control a game and in paritcular pace, change the pace at the right moment and take the sting out i remember when they started knocking around in front of our blanket in 11, thinking it was ominous, thankfully - what the hell do i know.

Whats the craic with S/C and Mick, i noticed watching the highlights of the semi that a lot of lads were pulling up with cramp, then in ET as well - which is understandable. But its surprising to see this day and age, isnt there a dedicated lad who was brought in full time to over see S/C a couple of year back. Maybe something on Jacks To Do list. Maybe the long stretch between games wasnt helpful. Its so important now, we were caught this year as well, Mayo had way better fitness and conditioning then us and mullered us in ET."
Funny you mention S/C Username. That's has been bugging me since. They had a guy who climbs mountains doing S/C but obviously he did nt have them right. It was Tyrone that looked the fitter team in the end with a good few Kerry players cramping up. Yes it will have to be on Jack s to do list. On Dublin v Mayo I think it was more lack of hunger that caught Dublin. They were just going through the motions. Nothing Like a loss to brí g the hunger back though. I think next year's championship most open in years.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2791 - 27/09/2021 17:51:38    2383215

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I kind of forget about who were the candidates in 18 with Keane. Jack's name was mentioned but not sure if he was in the race. On the ball retention thing it was done more so by manager Pat Ó Shea in 07 and 08 during his 2 year tenure (a basketball International aswell as a good footballer). Agree Username if Tally is part of team striking the ballance is so vital. Also agree in the Clifford Ó Shea over reliance and hopefully Jack will address this. On Jack he is very fond of the big full forward so I would nt be surprised to see a few big men tried in there."
Please don't adopt an overly defensive strategy, think it goes against Kerry's football style..

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 403 - 27/09/2021 18:07:41    2383221

Link

Replying To TheUsername:  "Sound Mick - i used to watch Kerry in 00s and really admire how they could control a game and in paritcular pace, change the pace at the right moment and take the sting out i remember when they started knocking around in front of our blanket in 11, thinking it was ominous, thankfully - what the hell do i know.

Whats the craic with S/C and Mick, i noticed watching the highlights of the semi that a lot of lads were pulling up with cramp, then in ET as well - which is understandable. But its surprising to see this day and age, isnt there a dedicated lad who was brought in full time to over see S/C a couple of year back. Maybe something on Jacks To Do list. Maybe the long stretch between games wasnt helpful. Its so important now, we were caught this year as well, Mayo had way better fitness and conditioning then us and mullered us in ET."
Not better fitness and conditioning Username. Mayo had appetite and Dublin had none, 6 All Irelands in a row later. Unless Dublin get that appetite back, no Sam Maguire for ye again next year.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1572 - 27/09/2021 21:13:31    2383242

Link