National Forum

Why Cork Cant Win More All Irelands In Football

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Keep the blindfold on. Football counties shouldn't be expected to develop hurling when there is no tradition. At least not in the modern game you watch. Every football county fields an intercounty team in hurling whereas hurling counties put up barriers to stifle development of football."
For starters yes they should, and secondly please detail (a) how hurling counties are stifling the game, and (b) how "our boys" destroyed ulster hurling.
Details please, come on, don't be making those accusations if you're not gonna back em up.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 957 - 25/09/2021 17:51:28    2382892

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Thought I'd replied yesterday to your initial comment about "snobs down south" and how apparently we killed off "your" game that was more like shinty. I must not have posted it properly.

Fact of the matter is that hurling had died off almost completely everywhere before the GAA was even founded. Trying to revive it was a large part of the reason by the Association was formed in the first place. A measure of the game's low ebb at the time is the fact that teams from only five counties entered the first All-Ireland Championship - Clare, Galway, Kilkenny, Tipperary, and Wexford.

Had "snobs down south" killed off the game in places like Cork, Limerick and Waterford to the extent that they couldn't field a team either? Or was the sad state of the game due to all other sorts of socio-economic and cultural factors? What do you think?

Also, probably fair to say that the hurling played everywhere at the time had more in common with shinty than it did with the hurling of today. It's just that the game evolved over the years. It's ludicrous to make a claim along the lines that people "down south" tried to force a different game altogether onto Donegal or anywhere else, when the game played "down south" at the time had more in common with the game played in Donegal than you seem to realise.

Finally, wouldn't surprise me if a football "elitist" from somewhere like Kerry, Tyrone or Mayo came to watch Wexford play Carlow (for example) in a football match, that they might comment about the relatively poor standard of it too, compared to what they're used to."
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Now Now, Mayo got knocked out of the Qualifiers by a team that were beaten in Leinster by Carlow
a mere 3 years ago. So I would hope there is a certain level of respect for Carlow in Mayo.
Cool jerseys too.

On the doing the double issue - Offaly winning Sam & Liam in 82 & 81 is probably up there with Corks double in 90.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 237 - 25/09/2021 18:10:05    2382897

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I'm happy for Kerry to have as much success as possible but let's not forget there's a hurling tradition in North kerry. The only big change that's taken place in the hurling landscape is they've lost Offaly,temporarily at least.
There's probably the guts of 20 County boards in the country who if they're being honest, don't take hurling seriously. Maybe football people should look at that before lecturing Donal og Cusack or Jackie Tyrell on being open minded."
Ah here now 9801. As I've said earlier to you that cuts both ways. The chances of success at the highest level in hurling are non existent for counties outside the elite. It has ever been so. That's the way hurling is. The likes of Westmeath, Laois and Antrim take their hurling very seriously. They haven't a hope of breaking into the elite group. Antrim did briefly in the late eighties and early nineties. I was at those games. Antrim inevitably slipped back. It's not a case of county boards of the counties I've mentioned not trying. They try very hard. The hurling elite are way ahead of the rest and always have been. Look at their treatment of Kerry in recent years. I wouldn't lecture hurling pundits about being open minded. What I take exception to is the smug arrogance that at times permeates hurling punditry. I have seen on numerous occasions hurling pundits openly sneering at football. I have listened on many, many occasions to hurling supporters sneering at football. Have you ever heard the "Football is a game for lads that can't play hurling" one? We have two great games in the GAA and like you 9801, I love both of them. We also have a sizeable number of hurling supporters need to get their heads out of their a***s and realise that we have two great games and not just one.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5707 - 25/09/2021 19:51:23    2382907

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Keep the blindfold on. Football counties shouldn't be expected to develop hurling when there is no tradition. At least not in the modern game you watch. Every football county fields an intercounty team in hurling whereas hurling counties put up barriers to stifle development of football."
Fair enough but by that logic counties that have a stronger interest in hurling shouldnt be expected to promote football either. Hurling, even in areas where its strong ,is a delicate ecosystem and needs protection especially from gaelic football. The closest analogy I can give is that introducing football in these areas would be akin to introducing Japanese knotweed- its invasive, nobody wants it, and it strangles everything in its path

UtahBlaine (Galway) - Posts: 103 - 25/09/2021 20:30:48    2382914

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "It was still popular up north even after it declined in the south so your boys did kill it off."
I fail to see any logic in this statement, no matter how hard I try.

Let's say for argument's sake that you did indeed have a popular game that was distinct from hurling in "the south". How exactly would interest in "the south" in the evolving new form of hurling kill off the game that was played in your own part of the country, if there was still sufficient interest in that game in your own part of the country to keep it alive?

Surely it was fading interest in your own part of the country in that particular game that killed it off?

Would be a bit like if road bowling in Cork died off over the next few years, and they blamed people in Leinster or Connacht for it, because of how they never bought into in the first place.

Or the sort of outdoor skittles game that's still played in a pub league around North Wexford most summers. Would be like if that died off, and the few involved in it blamed people in Donegal for its demise, because of how those Donegal people never developed or promoted a similar game.

Frankly ridiculous all round.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 793 - 25/09/2021 20:33:45    2382916

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Replying To Galway9801:  "For starters yes they should, and secondly please detail (a) how hurling counties are stifling the game, and (b) how "our boys" destroyed ulster hurling.
Details please, come on, don't be making those accusations if you're not gonna back em up."
Ah, he's all over the place. I was going to reply to one or two of his other posts, but have decided what's the point. On the one hand, he says there's no hurling tradition in those counties and so they shouldn't be "forced" to try develop the game. On the other hand, he talks about an Ulster tradition in a form of hurling that was somehow destroyed by "snobs down south".

Think it was Mark Twain who said something about never argue with a fool, because they'll drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 793 - 25/09/2021 20:36:05    2382917

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Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

Now Now, Mayo got knocked out of the Qualifiers by a team that were beaten in Leinster by Carlow
a mere 3 years ago. So I would hope there is a certain level of respect for Carlow in Mayo.
Cool jerseys too.

On the doing the double issue - Offaly winning Sam & Liam in 82 & 81 is probably up there with Corks double in 90."
All right then. Not Carlow. :)

Let's say Waterford instead. The point remains.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 793 - 25/09/2021 20:36:41    2382918

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Ah here now 9801. As I've said earlier to you that cuts both ways. The chances of success at the highest level in hurling are non existent for counties outside the elite. It has ever been so. That's the way hurling is. The likes of Westmeath, Laois and Antrim take their hurling very seriously. They haven't a hope of breaking into the elite group. Antrim did briefly in the late eighties and early nineties. I was at those games. Antrim inevitably slipped back. It's not a case of county boards of the counties I've mentioned not trying. They try very hard. The hurling elite are way ahead of the rest and always have been. Look at their treatment of Kerry in recent years. I wouldn't lecture hurling pundits about being open minded. What I take exception to is the smug arrogance that at times permeates hurling punditry. I have seen on numerous occasions hurling pundits openly sneering at football. I have listened on many, many occasions to hurling supporters sneering at football. Have you ever heard the "Football is a game for lads that can't play hurling" one? We have two great games in the GAA and like you 9801, I love both of them. We also have a sizeable number of hurling supporters need to get their heads out of their a***s and realise that we have two great games and not just one."
Greengrass have you been reading my posts, I fully acknowledge it cuts both ways, and seeing as how it cuts BOTH ways football people like Rolo need to stop playing the victim, instead of making out like hurling people are the only ones to blame.
My point in a nutshell, as mentioned earlier, is that the vast majority of county boards ignore hurling to the benefit of football,or at least relegate it to a distant second , believe me that's way more influential than the likes of Cyril Farrell or Cusack having the odd dig.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 957 - 25/09/2021 21:01:38    2382926

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Greengrass have you been reading my posts, I fully acknowledge it cuts both ways, and seeing as how it cuts BOTH ways football people like Rolo need to stop playing the victim, instead of making out like hurling people are the only ones to blame.
My point in a nutshell, as mentioned earlier, is that the vast majority of county boards ignore hurling to the benefit of football,or at least relegate it to a distant second , believe me that's way more influential than the likes of Cyril Farrell or Cusack having the odd dig."
I have been reading your posts 9801 because they're worth reading. I think you overplay the attitude of county boards to hurling. Some relegate it to a distant second not the vast majority. Playing the victim also cuts both ways. Read UtahBlaine's post. It's a beauty. I think we need to agree to disagree on this one.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5707 - 26/09/2021 10:19:02    2382944

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This is a great thread. In over 4 pages of comment, we have only one participation from a Cork poster! And he's St. Mologga, and more than likely a Limerick man from around Knockdea or Leabamolloga.

How dare the rest of us question Cork football! How dare I state that Cork is a lower level intermediate football team! It's indignant of us to even post such a topic.

As long as Cork football continues to keep its head in the sand, and as long as self-proclaimed "Cork footballing people", such as JennyBonny, fail to wake up and smell the coffee, Cork will not be winning any AIF title anytime, anyway soon. Not even an Intermediate one.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 780 - 26/09/2021 10:44:43    2382950

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Replying To HuddHastings:  "There are no hurling snobs worse than the Cork hurling snobs, its a bit rich for them to constantly declare its a hurling county when the hurling county has failed to deliver all ireland success for near 20 years now"
Well that's a ridiculous statement. If that was the case, what would we be calling other counties? Cork may have underachieved or maybe not. We have won as many all Irelands as any county could hope, but it's been a while since the last.
That's like saying Meath can't call themselves a football county, or Mayo etc. Counties tend to follow a favourite code, whether they win or not. You being from a Longford should know better than most.
I happen to be West Cork which is predominantly football, however it is not a huge population compared to many other football strongholds. Indeed it pales in comparison in terms population to Mayo and Kerry for example. The fact is, most of the county are hurling and who am I to say this is not right. I would agree with the Limerick poster, who said however that county board involvement should represent both codes equally though. Something that has not always happened in Cork.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 284 - 26/09/2021 10:49:04    2382952

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Replying To UtahBlaine:  "Fair enough but by that logic counties that have a stronger interest in hurling shouldnt be expected to promote football either. Hurling, even in areas where its strong ,is a delicate ecosystem and needs protection especially from gaelic football. The closest analogy I can give is that introducing football in these areas would be akin to introducing Japanese knotweed- its invasive, nobody wants it, and it strangles everything in its path"
Oh dear !!!!

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5707 - 26/09/2021 11:04:25    2382955

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "This is a great thread. In over 4 pages of comment, we have only one participation from a Cork poster! And he's St. Mologga, and more than likely a Limerick man from around Knockdea or Leabamolloga.

How dare the rest of us question Cork football! How dare I state that Cork is a lower level intermediate football team! It's indignant of us to even post such a topic.

As long as Cork football continues to keep its head in the sand, and as long as self-proclaimed "Cork footballing people", such as JennyBonny, fail to wake up and smell the coffee, Cork will not be winning any AIF title anytime, anyway soon. Not even an Intermediate one."
Baldybadger, I'd posted before you'd posted. And I wasn't reflecting on you, as I agree entirely with what you say.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 780 - 26/09/2021 11:10:39    2382956

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "This is a great thread. In over 4 pages of comment, we have only one participation from a Cork poster! And he's St. Mologga, and more than likely a Limerick man from around Knockdea or Leabamolloga.

How dare the rest of us question Cork football! How dare I state that Cork is a lower level intermediate football team! It's indignant of us to even post such a topic.

As long as Cork football continues to keep its head in the sand, and as long as self-proclaimed "Cork footballing people", such as JennyBonny, fail to wake up and smell the coffee, Cork will not be winning any AIF title anytime, anyway soon. Not even an Intermediate one."
Forever young given the limited number of teams who can win the LiamMcCarthy and given that it will be 17 years and counting next year is not way past time that Cork won a senior hurling title? The last senior All Ireland to come to Cork was won by the footballers in 2010.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5707 - 26/09/2021 11:30:18    2382958

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Really? Why does hurling get so much attention then?"
Dont get your point. What do you mean by attention?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3450 - 26/09/2021 12:09:32    2382966

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Replying To Greengrass:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=Greengrass:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  ""Hurling at elite level is still effectively a closed shop. The last time the Liam McCarthy was won by a county for the first time was in 1981 by Offaly. Since then 4 counties have won the football title for the first time."

Different All-Ireland winning counties over the last:

10 years - Hurling 5, Football4
25 years - Hurling 8, Football 8"
I said elite hurling is a closed shop. You fail to address that point. Maybe this will help you. Offaly were the last county to win the Liam McCarthy back in 1981. Before that Waterford were the last county to win the Liam McCarthy for the first time. They did that in 1948. Before that it was Galway i n 1923.
Since 1923 there have been 11 first time winners of the Sam Maguire.
Since 1948 there have been 7 first time winners of the Sam Maguire.
Since 1981 there have been 4 first time winners of the Sam Maguire.
The key phrase was "closed shop.""
Top tier hurling isnt a closed shop. There is promotion and relegation every year. It's up to counties to get good enough at it. And the CC should be facilitating and encouraging counties to grow and promote the game. Isnt the promotion of Gaelic Games, including hurling, what the Association was founded for in the 1st place?"]It most certainly is Viking. Promotion and relegation doesn't affect the elite teams in the Liam McCarthy. Is there any relegation from the Munster Championship? Offaly broke in to the elite and now they are gone again. Name me another team sport that has only recorded two new winners of it's primary competition in the last 98 years."]That's surely an indictment of the other 20 odd counties not the 9 or so "elite" counties?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3450 - 26/09/2021 12:10:52    2382967

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Keep the blindfold on. Football counties shouldn't be expected to develop hurling when there is no tradition. At least not in the modern game you watch. Every football county fields an intercounty team in hurling whereas hurling counties put up barriers to stifle development of football."
That's nonsense down here anyway. Which hurling counties are you talking about?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3450 - 26/09/2021 12:12:07    2382969

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Keep the blindfold on. Football counties shouldn't be expected to develop hurling when there is no tradition. At least not in the modern game you watch. Every football county fields an intercounty team in hurling whereas hurling counties put up barriers to stifle development of football."
You wrote: "Football counties shouldn't be expected to develop hurling when there is no tradition". LOL

Before the GAA was formed there were very few counties where hurling, in some form, wasn't played. However, gaelic football wasn't played in any county because it didn't exist! There was no 'tradition' of football in Ireland before the GAA was founded.
Whether you like it or not hurling is our native game with evidence of the game being played for hundreds of years. Gaelic football is a hybrid that was introduced in the latter half of the 19th century.
Our traditional native game is club hurling & camánaíocht.
Gaelic football is mixture of rugby and soccer, nowadays basketball. A big round ball is used for gaelic football and in recent times there may be the occasional use of the foot to kick it!

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1118 - 26/09/2021 13:40:02    2382989

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Oh look a football thread has turned into a discussion about hurling. You boys have to make everything about yourselves. Typical hurlers. Selfish and small minded.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 467 - 26/09/2021 14:33:13    2382996

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Replying To baire:  "You wrote: "Football counties shouldn't be expected to develop hurling when there is no tradition". LOL

Before the GAA was formed there were very few counties where hurling, in some form, wasn't played. However, gaelic football wasn't played in any county because it didn't exist! There was no 'tradition' of football in Ireland before the GAA was founded.
Whether you like it or not hurling is our native game with evidence of the game being played for hundreds of years. Gaelic football is a hybrid that was introduced in the latter half of the 19th century.
Our traditional native game is club hurling & camánaíocht.
Gaelic football is mixture of rugby and soccer, nowadays basketball. A big round ball is used for gaelic football and in recent times there may be the occasional use of the foot to kick it!"
And you boys still managed to kill it off despite this. Good. Football is the superior game anyway.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 467 - 26/09/2021 14:35:09    2382998

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