National Forum

Cody Staying Another Year With Kilkenny But When Should He Move On?

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Replying To midlands:  "There wasn't really much between Tipp and Kilkenny in 2010 until the last ten minutes when Tipperary's subs Callanan (2), Dunne and Hennessy knocked over four points, followed by Corbett's third goal to clinch it - all that after KK had lost Sheffin early on. I agree the KK team of 2016 wasn't as good as 2010, but they were reigning champions and going for three in a row. In my view it was Tipp's best final display of modern times, and certainly better than 2019."
I agree it was the only time Tipp beat Kilkenny without some extenuating circumstances. In 2010 Henry and Brian Hogan were basically out of the game and Tommy Walsh and John Tennyson were playing with injuries. In 2019 Richie Hogan was sent off. 2016 Tipp beat Kilkenny in Tipp's best preformance against Kilkenny with Ryan in charge.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 300 - 14/09/2021 23:21:18    2380778

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Replying To katser:  "I'm only saying it out of concern for the human body, like they are not machines! These things happen and its terrible misfortune, knees are very important and with seriously intense training men need time to rest!
I'd hate for any individual to have problems 10/15yrs ahead from been over trained as young fellows. God bless them it's a horrible thing to happen."
Am melted by the sincerity oozing from this post..or is it a feeble attempt at damage control. The old deflect and change direction when challenged approach. Happens a lot on here.

In the meantime, thinking positively... here we go 3 in a row.. next ball.... one game at a time...and let's not think we are world beaters if we win the 1st game of the league.....lotta bends in the road.

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1295 - 15/09/2021 05:02:58    2380786

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Mrs Cody must be a very understanding lady

Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1037 - 15/09/2021 08:35:28    2380797

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "What expertise have you to make a pronouncement like that. Eamon Cregan had a cruciate injury nearly forty years ago, late in his long career, and at 75 years old he is still bounding around. Ger Hegarty had it done about 25 years ago and he is showing no ill effects. Sean Finn had one repaired a few years back and that did not go too bad. With the standard of treatment improving all the time they should all be fine when they embark on their retirements of eternal fame. I know you wish our boys no good, but don't be pinning your hopes on them all going on Zimmer Frames before they are forty."
To be fair, all studies lately back up her point. People with ACL issues and cartilage damage have a high chance of developing osteoathritis within 10 years and theres a good chance they'll require a knee replacement in years to come. The chances of this ending an active persons career early isnt as high so you'll be safe enough in Limerick but the point Katser made is reasonably accurate.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 3124 - 15/09/2021 08:50:12    2380799

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Replying To ballydalane:  "It's a combination of both players and manager in my opinion. As someone said, after Liam Sheedy stepped away from Tipp in 2010, their standards dropped and they didn't win another All Ireland until he came back for a second term. Practically the same group of players, for the most part."
But was it the same group of players? When I saw your statement I just wondered, so I checked it out. I was amazed myself at the extent of the turn over of players in Tipp between '10 and '16. Only five Tipp players payed in both finals (three Mahers, Mikie Cahill and Noel McGrath) with Seamus Callanan coming on as a sub in '10 and otherwise no sub brought on either day were brought on the other one.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3276 - 15/09/2021 09:42:16    2380803

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Replying To gatha:  "Galway have had as much and a lot of times more talent then anyone in the last 10-15 years and have won very little. A great manager can get a lot out of players a bad manager will take down good players. John Keily is as important and more impoetant than any player on Limerick. Tipp won an All-Ireland in 2010 Sheedy left and they didn't win for 6 years with the same team."
I actually do agree with your point, as while there is no doubt that Brian Cody had some amazing players down through the years, had Galway had a manager like Brian Cody, I've no doubt that we would have more to show than one miserable All Ireland in the last 33 years. Cody was ruthless, didn't care what anyone thought of him, and his was his way or no way, whereas in Galway the players have always held way too much sway. However I think it's now time for Cody to step aside, his legacy is set in stone, but time to let the a younger man like Henry, DJ or Eddie Brennan take over. Cody was only 43 when he took over, and while Kilkenny will never ask Cody to go, he was given the opportunity at a relatively young age, and it's time for someone else to get that opportunity.

gilly1910 (Galway) - Posts: 135 - 15/09/2021 10:00:37    2380807

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "But was it the same group of players? When I saw your statement I just wondered, so I checked it out. I was amazed myself at the extent of the turn over of players in Tipp between '10 and '16. Only five Tipp players payed in both finals (three Mahers, Mikie Cahill and Noel McGrath) with Seamus Callanan coming on as a sub in '10 and otherwise no sub brought on either day were brought on the other one."
Good man OTM. Good analysis. Such analysis sorts out the men from the boys (lazy, weak, incorrect info spouters).

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 748 - 15/09/2021 11:35:43    2380847

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Replying To katser:  "The way things are going limrik might not be around much longer!!
All that intense training have them dropping like flies with knees buckling!
Some of them will hardly be able to walk in 10yrs time when they will be mid - late 30's!!"
Your opinion on hurling matters is one of the most flawed and useless that people have ever had to put up with. Nonetheless, it's just an opinion, and hurling is just a game.

However, please refrain forthwith from putting your opinion on matters of a medical nature into the public domain. Everyone knows that you do not work in the medical field. You possess neither the mental capacity nor brain power to do so.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 748 - 15/09/2021 11:46:50    2380851

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Replying To Maroonatic:  "Mrs Cody must be a very understanding lady"
Of course. Shes a good Wexford woman!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3341 - 15/09/2021 13:52:30    2380896

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Replying To Viking66:  "Of course. Shes a good Wexford woman!"
And she too would have witnessed the absolute booting the Kilkenny U20's took from Galway in the first half of the Leinster semi-final.
They did get the scoreline down to a respectable level in the second half due to a combination of sympathetic decisions by the referee and Galway taking their foot off the gas. Galway then get a trimming by Cork.

There didn't seem to be any shining Kilkenny lights on the team irrespective of the result so unless there's a few lads with serious pace cutting it up in their club championships then it's hard to see Kilkenny close the gap on Limerick in 2022.

Cody has won the right to stand down at a time of his choosing but IMO and I'm a big fan of the man he really should have stepped down and allow someone else to build a new team with new ideas.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2502 - 15/09/2021 14:09:46    2380905

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "But was it the same group of players? When I saw your statement I just wondered, so I checked it out. I was amazed myself at the extent of the turn over of players in Tipp between '10 and '16. Only five Tipp players payed in both finals (three Mahers, Mikie Cahill and Noel McGrath) with Seamus Callanan coming on as a sub in '10 and otherwise no sub brought on either day were brought on the other one."
How many from the 2010 team played in '11,'12 and 13 when Tipp didn't even contest a final. Of course 6 years later there is going to be a big turm over. The point is if Sheedy had stayed on they could very well have one another over the next 3 years.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 300 - 15/09/2021 15:15:18    2380924

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Replying To gatha:  "How many from the 2010 team played in '11,'12 and 13 when Tipp didn't even contest a final. Of course 6 years later there is going to be a big turm over. The point is if Sheedy had stayed on they could very well have one another over the next 3 years."
Moot point, 'if'. Liam Sheedy didn't stay. And we all know what happened between 2011 and 2015. Let's deal with what actually happened, and not with 'ifs, ands, or but's'. Otherwise a topic could be years long.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 748 - 15/09/2021 15:38:39    2380928

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Replying To gatha:  "I agree it was the only time Tipp beat Kilkenny without some extenuating circumstances. In 2010 Henry and Brian Hogan were basically out of the game and Tommy Walsh and John Tennyson were playing with injuries. In 2019 Richie Hogan was sent off. 2016 Tipp beat Kilkenny in Tipp's best preformance against Kilkenny with Ryan in charge."
A young Tipp team was very unlucky to lose to Kilkenny in 2009. Missed goal chances, a sending off and a doubtful Kilkenny penalty did for them. In 2014, Tipp had a last gasp chance to beat Kilkenny the first day but the free was ruled wide by Hawkeye. Under Cody, Kilkenny have played Tipp in 6 All Ireland Finals and it's 3 wins each.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1564 - 15/09/2021 16:57:50    2380942

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Moot point, 'if'. Liam Sheedy didn't stay. And we all know what happened between 2011 and 2015. Let's deal with what actually happened, and not with 'ifs, ands, or but's'. Otherwise a topic could be years long."
It's a fair point if you knew what I was responding to. There was a post saying its the players not the managers who win All Irelands and, a Blind man could manage Limerick. My point is managers have a big say and I used Tipp at the turn of the decade as an example of how a manager does play a significant role on any team.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 300 - 15/09/2021 18:35:14    2380961

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Replying To endgame:  "A young Tipp team was very unlucky to lose to Kilkenny in 2009. Missed goal chances, a sending off and a doubtful Kilkenny penalty did for them. In 2014, Tipp had a last gasp chance to beat Kilkenny the first day but the free was ruled wide by Hawkeye. Under Cody, Kilkenny have played Tipp in 6 All Ireland Finals and it's 3 wins each."
Yes they didn't take their goal chances and had an obvious sending off, penalty was debatable from a Tipp point of view which is fair but Henry buried the chance and Kilkenny ran out winners. In 2014 Bubbles hit a free wide and Kilkenny won the replay comfortably . In 2010 Kilkenny were short 2 of their best players at central positions and 2 others were carrying injuries. In 2019 Richie Hogan got sent off questionably from a Kilkeeny point of view and Tipp ran out winners comfortably. What is your point. Over that great spell of hurling between Kilkenny and Tipp, Kilkenny had the upper hand if you look at the league, qualifiers and Championship games. However they were all great games and if Kilkenny weren't so good that Tipp team probably would have went down as the greatest Tipp team of all time or at least of modern times.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 300 - 15/09/2021 18:44:47    2380963

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Replying To gatha:  "It's a fair point if you knew what I was responding to. There was a post saying its the players not the managers who win All Irelands and, a Blind man could manage Limerick. My point is managers have a big say and I used Tipp at the turn of the decade as an example of how a manager does play a significant role on any team."
Often times managers are just facilitators, they have the talent there, its just about getting it to perform, but for sure there are managers who've had profound impacts on their teams.

Mickey Harte, Jim McGuinness, Mick O'Dwyer (kildare, Laois) Páidí ó shea (westmeath), Davy Fitzgerald (Clare, arguably wexford), John ó Mahony (galway, Leitrim) all could claim to have individually affected their counties fortunes in a big way.
You'd have to throw in Cody too, I think that kilkenny over the last 20 years would have won all Irelands under any manager but the sustained level of brilliance for years upon years on end came from him I think.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 15/09/2021 18:58:49    2380964

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Replying To gatha:  "How many from the 2010 team played in '11,'12 and 13 when Tipp didn't even contest a final. Of course 6 years later there is going to be a big turm over. The point is if Sheedy had stayed on they could very well have one another over the next 3 years."
Did Tipp not contest the '11 Final. Whoever is making out that this Tipp was in any the best Tipp team ever is way off. Tipp have been beaten by Limerick on no less that six times in the Munster championship in the last nine years and they have never put a back to back All Ireland. Sheehy was in charge over the past three years and Limerick destroyed them every time they met them, except in a round Robin game in '19, when Kiely, for some inexplicable reason, left off Lynch, Hannon, Hegarty and Mulcahy.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3276 - 15/09/2021 20:33:54    2380978

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Managers do have an impact on the success of teams. Good players become great players often in response to leadership and confidence in it. However he can not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If he does not have skilled players to start with he is not winning All-Irelands. Brian had an unbelievable squad of all good players and more than the average of great players. He could concentrate on pushing a few more to be great and he is a maestro at it.
It is the same as the work place. Worked for a charismatic C.E.O. and the work force would jump through hoops for him. If he met you once he would call you by name the next time. Had a word for everyone from the janitor to the managers. When he moved on no one gave a sh-t anymore and the place went into decline.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1644 - 15/09/2021 20:59:16    2380984

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Replying To gatha:  "How many from the 2010 team played in '11,'12 and 13 when Tipp didn't even contest a final. Of course 6 years later there is going to be a big turm over. The point is if Sheedy had stayed on they could very well have one another over the next 3 years."
They did contest the final in 2011, when they were soundly beaten by KK even if the margin was just four or five points. I would argue that, apart from 2012 and 2018, they were there or thereabouts throughout that decade and I don't buy into the notion that they would have won more under Sheedy. Tipp made a better effort at retaining their title in 2011 (losing to KK in the final) and 2017 (losing to Canning's wonder point in the semi-final) than they did under Sheedy in 2020.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 328 - 15/09/2021 21:11:21    2380991

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Did Tipp not contest the '11 Final. Whoever is making out that this Tipp was in any the best Tipp team ever is way off. Tipp have been beaten by Limerick on no less that six times in the Munster championship in the last nine years and they have never put a back to back All Ireland. Sheehy was in charge over the past three years and Limerick destroyed them every time they met them, except in a round Robin game in '19, when Kiely, for some inexplicable reason, left off Lynch, Hannon, Hegarty and Mulcahy."
I am talking about the Tipp team of '09-'14. Kelly Corbet etc. Yes they did contest it and were beaten comfortably by Kilkenny except for a terrible goal let up by Herity.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 300 - 15/09/2021 21:19:26    2380997

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