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Cody Staying Another Year With Kilkenny But When Should He Move On?

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Yes he is greatest coach of all time and we wont see another like him ever but when should he move on and Kilkenny look to the next coaches?
Hasnt won an all ireland since 2015 yes keeps winning Leinster but no big deal about that. only 6 times since taking over has that not happened.
surely it would be better at some stage to move on?
There 20+ years. what more does he have to prove?

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2549 - 13/09/2021 22:21:18    2380456

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Yes he is greatest coach of all time and we wont see another like him ever but when should he move on and Kilkenny look to the next coaches?
Hasnt won an all ireland since 2015 yes keeps winning Leinster but no big deal about that. only 6 times since taking over has that not happened.
surely it would be better at some stage to move on?
There 20+ years. what more does he have to prove?"
I expected a change too, its amazing for me to think in all the years I've followed hurling he's been the only kilkenny manager haha, I've never seen them managed my anyone else,

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 948 - 13/09/2021 23:31:46    2380484

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Rumour is he's keeping the seat warm for Henry Shefflin, who apparently is his preferred successor. Henry's training Thomastown in the Intermediate grade now, which was a move I was surprised by after the success he enjoyed with Ballyhale. Again, another rumour is that move is designed to help him identify new talent from the intermediate ranks that could be promoted to the senior panel. Seems a bit far fetched to me but it was a strange move so who knows?!

In defence of Cody, I honestly don't think there's another manager in Kilkenny who would do better with that group of players. There's no one saying "he should be winning All Irelands with the talent at his disposal". He wrings every last ounce out of them. But on balance I think he should have stepped aside a couple of years ago to let someone else have a go, if only just to have a fresh face in charge, new ideas etc. The guy just doesn't think like that, though.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1181 - 13/09/2021 23:55:31    2380487

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I doubt he is trying to prove anything. It is his life. His obsession perhaps. There is no demand that he retire as far as I can see from within his own county. No one demands that great writers, musicians, painters stop when they reach a certain age!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 290 - 14/09/2021 08:13:22    2380499

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Yes he is greatest coach of all time and we wont see another like him ever but when should he move on and Kilkenny look to the next coaches?
Hasnt won an all ireland since 2015 yes keeps winning Leinster but no big deal about that. only 6 times since taking over has that not happened.
surely it would be better at some stage to move on?
There 20+ years. what more does he have to prove?"
They're not winning an All-Ireland anytime soon so it doesn't make much difference who is manager. God help them when TJ goes. It just shows it's the players and not the manager who win All-Irelands. A blind man could train this Limerick team to win again in 2022.

Mailman98 (Galway) - Posts: 317 - 14/09/2021 08:17:56    2380501

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Cody is doing the right thing, same as Harte, building a new team for the future. It's all about Munster for the next 4 or more years. KK and Galway must wait for youth to mature, a longer wait for Wexford and Dublin, I'd say,

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1099 - 14/09/2021 09:48:13    2380520

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Replying To Mailman98:  "They're not winning an All-Ireland anytime soon so it doesn't make much difference who is manager. God help them when TJ goes. It just shows it's the players and not the manager who win All-Irelands. A blind man could train this Limerick team to win again in 2022."
Galway have had as much and a lot of times more talent then anyone in the last 10-15 years and have won very little. A great manager can get a lot out of players a bad manager will take down good players. John Keily is as important and more impoetant than any player on Limerick. Tipp won an All-Ireland in 2010 Sheedy left and they didn't win for 6 years with the same team.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 300 - 14/09/2021 10:54:13    2380543

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Replying To baire:  "Cody is doing the right thing, same as Harte, building a new team for the future. It's all about Munster for the next 4 or more years. KK and Galway must wait for youth to mature, a longer wait for Wexford and Dublin, I'd say,"
If after winning four All Minor titles from '17 to '20 inclusive you think Galway will have to wait four or five years to challenge for ultimate honours I am amazed. The fact is at the moment Galway are the the best equipped panel to challenge Limerick, if they get their house in order. In four or five years times Limerick will be gone off the scene, as we do not have the hurling population to maintain a side of the quality of the present one. However Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny will almost definitely be back up to speed by then, so the next few years should constitute a better window of opportunity for Galway.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3262 - 14/09/2021 11:13:20    2380554

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More power to him. A great man.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1387 - 14/09/2021 12:19:20    2380569

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "If after winning four All Minor titles from '17 to '20 inclusive you think Galway will have to wait four or five years to challenge for ultimate honours I am amazed. The fact is at the moment Galway are the the best equipped panel to challenge Limerick, if they get their house in order. In four or five years times Limerick will be gone off the scene, as we do not have the hurling population to maintain a side of the quality of the present one. However Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny will almost definitely be back up to speed by then, so the next few years should constitute a better window of opportunity for Galway."
If they had won a few Under 21s or U20s I'd agree but that's not the case. The Cork U20s this year looked like seniors compared to the gossoons from Galway. Galway have won at Under 17 because at that age it's mostly about skill but to win an All Ireland at senior level, strength and conditioning plus size are also needed.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1099 - 14/09/2021 12:26:49    2380573

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I doubt he is trying to prove anything. It is his life. His obsession perhaps. There is no demand that he retire as far as I can see from within his own county. No one demands that great writers, musicians, painters stop when they reach a certain age!"
Henry manager a club team that had 10 county players, 5 of them all stars at some point.

Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 42 - 14/09/2021 12:59:03    2380590

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All of the so called big 3 have gone long periods without winning. Cork are currently in one of those periods and there's nothing to indicate that KK may be starting into a long period now as well. Cody is pulling every last bit out of what he has but even the best players such as Padraig Walsh wouldnt have got into the old KK half back line. TJ himself couldnt make it despite being plenty old enough. KK are probably right to give Cody a few more years. I don't see too many of the pretenders putting their name in the hat to develop underage talent. There's a large history in GAA teams of successful underage managers/selectors going on to be successful senior managers but I'm not seeing KK being able to pull these lads in often enough yet.

The 90's had five finals with none of the big 3 winning and only one appeared in a final in that period. I wouldn't be surprised if we were going into a similar period right now.

Amazingly Kiely is one win away from being the second most successful manager of all time at senior level (he's already joint second with 3 others)

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 3116 - 14/09/2021 13:32:30    2380603

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Replying To baire:  "If they had won a few Under 21s or U20s I'd agree but that's not the case. The Cork U20s this year looked like seniors compared to the gossoons from Galway. Galway have won at Under 17 because at that age it's mostly about skill but to win an All Ireland at senior level, strength and conditioning plus size are also needed."
Was there a suggestion this year of a Covid outbreak in the Galway U20 team? The Cork teams of the last years at U20 only beat Limerick after extra time last year and were also taken down to the wire by them this year in Cork so are they really that promising. I was comparing the 2018 Cork with that that played in the AIF this year and I was deeply surprised to see that about fourteen of those who played in last months final were involved in the panel in '18, which begs the question, how good are Cork really going to be for a few more years. The contention that they are a young team is also seriously challenged by those stats.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3262 - 14/09/2021 13:35:33    2380604

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What Limerick has achieved says a lot about the big picture of coaching , training and team management with John Kiely being the front face of it. It is fair to say they are now dominant in the last four years. This may not be a stretch for the historical power houses of Kilkenny, Cork or Tipp but for the likes of Limerick , Clare, Galway and Wexford an odd All-Ireland here and there would be all that is expected. If we were good enough to win one it would have to do for a decade or two or maybe more. The senior manager is important but there is a lot more to LImerick's success than that. It will be interesting to see if they have linked the chain together for a continuation in successful management. My guess is they probable have. To the question of the great Brian Cody maybe his longevity has allowed a breakdown in the chain. Who knows with them pesky cats ?

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1644 - 14/09/2021 14:22:29    2380631

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Replying To baire:  "If they had won a few Under 21s or U20s I'd agree but that's not the case. The Cork U20s this year looked like seniors compared to the gossoons from Galway. Galway have won at Under 17 because at that age it's mostly about skill but to win an All Ireland at senior level, strength and conditioning plus size are also needed."
Baire, in my opinion you are spot on but isn't that a sad reflection of where hurling and gaelic football is, that strength and conditioning/size takes precedence over skill.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1431 - 14/09/2021 14:23:45    2380632

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It's hard not to compare the situation to Tyrone footballers. Cody, like Harte, is an absolute sporting icon but there does come a time. Look at the impact that change has in Tyrone in 12months?

Ed (UK) - Posts: 153 - 14/09/2021 14:32:06    2380633

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Replying To tiobraid:  "All of the so called big 3 have gone long periods without winning. Cork are currently in one of those periods and there's nothing to indicate that KK may be starting into a long period now as well. Cody is pulling every last bit out of what he has but even the best players such as Padraig Walsh wouldnt have got into the old KK half back line. TJ himself couldnt make it despite being plenty old enough. KK are probably right to give Cody a few more years. I don't see too many of the pretenders putting their name in the hat to develop underage talent. There's a large history in GAA teams of successful underage managers/selectors going on to be successful senior managers but I'm not seeing KK being able to pull these lads in often enough yet.

The 90's had five finals with none of the big 3 winning and only one appeared in a final in that period. I wouldn't be surprised if we were going into a similar period right now.

Amazingly Kiely is one win away from being the second most successful manager of all time at senior level (he's already joint second with 3 others)"
It depends what you mean by 'manager' and 'all time'.

Tommy Maher guided Kilkenny to 7 Senior All-Ireland titles between 1957 and 1975.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1499 - 14/09/2021 14:37:26    2380634

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Baire, in my opinion you are spot on but isn't that a sad reflection of where hurling and gaelic football is, that strength and conditioning/size takes precedence over skill."
So the current Limerick side lacks skill. I am sure anybody that has seen Sean Finn, Declan Hannon Cian Lynch, Peter Casey or indeed a string of other Limerick players perform would not agree that they lack skill. Also versatility is a big factor in their success. At the start of 2020 they had five candidates on the panel for the full back line Finn, Casey, Costelloe, English and Condon. With in a matter all except were out for the year. Yet Nash, a man of the match forward in an under 21 Final and Morrissey a wing back seemlessly moved back and thrived in positions they never occupied before. Declan Hannon spent much of a his career as a forward, but be is now a brilliant center back. Hayes played in a minor final as a full forward, won MOM in a Senior Final as a center forward but is now starring as a wing. back Lynch has long since proved he can play anywhere. and is probably one of the best hurlers of his generation.
While they are a big team Finn and Casey were two of the smallest lads to play in an All Ireland winning Full back Line while Lyncnh, O'Donovan, Peter Casey and Mulcahy are all of average height.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3262 - 14/09/2021 15:45:34    2380654

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Was there a suggestion this year of a Covid outbreak in the Galway U20 team? The Cork teams of the last years at U20 only beat Limerick after extra time last year and were also taken down to the wire by them this year in Cork so are they really that promising. I was comparing the 2018 Cork with that that played in the AIF this year and I was deeply surprised to see that about fourteen of those who played in last months final were involved in the panel in '18, which begs the question, how good are Cork really going to be for a few more years. The contention that they are a young team is also seriously challenged by those stats."
Have you seen the photo with the caption, The evolution of the Limerick half back line:
Davy Clarke 1996, 5' 5"
Kyle Hayes, 2021, 6' 5"
A pic of both having a pint, Hayes towering over Clarke and he having to strain his neck to look up at him!

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1099 - 14/09/2021 16:05:54    2380665

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "So the current Limerick side lacks skill. I am sure anybody that has seen Sean Finn, Declan Hannon Cian Lynch, Peter Casey or indeed a string of other Limerick players perform would not agree that they lack skill. Also versatility is a big factor in their success. At the start of 2020 they had five candidates on the panel for the full back line Finn, Casey, Costelloe, English and Condon. With in a matter all except were out for the year. Yet Nash, a man of the match forward in an under 21 Final and Morrissey a wing back seemlessly moved back and thrived in positions they never occupied before. Declan Hannon spent much of a his career as a forward, but be is now a brilliant center back. Hayes played in a minor final as a full forward, won MOM in a Senior Final as a center forward but is now starring as a wing. back Lynch has long since proved he can play anywhere. and is probably one of the best hurlers of his generation.
While they are a big team Finn and Casey were two of the smallest lads to play in an All Ireland winning Full back Line while Lyncnh, O'Donovan, Peter Casey and Mulcahy are all of average height."
Off on your rant again I see! Where is it written that Limerick lack skill? Don't be ridiculous!

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1099 - 14/09/2021 16:11:40    2380667

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