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Replying To Cockney_Cat: ""Obviously Mayo have GREAT footballers or they couldn't get to the All Ireland on such a consistent basis but for one reason or another they come up short."
Just like the Galway hurlers?" What has this thread got to do with Galway Hurlers? Stop trying to deflect .
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1898 - 12/09/2021 20:35:08
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Replying To GreenandRed: "I think if you know any Mayo people praising this or other Mayo teams for being gallant losers, as you say, then they're not genuine Mayo gaelic football supporters with the best long term interest of Mayo gaelic football at heart. They're bandwagoners on Facebook. Or the other extreme is to the long list of post All Ireland scapegoats including 'bad luck'. I definitely think for some that being critical of the team is like criticising a family member, it's a county pride thing. But there are ways to criticise constructively without embarrasing or demeaning anyone. Not trying to change, at least, is just going backwards when other counties move on and improve.
After losing a third All Ireland in 8 years in 1997 the question to be asked was why are we good enough to get to finals but not win them? 24 years later we can't honestly say that question has been answered and how to find ways and means of us getting our senior footballers over the line. Most of our player and our sideline played like a team that were happy to be in the final yesterday. Tyrone went to Croke Park to win an All Ireland believing they would win and congratulations to them. We have some some good footballers and coaches. We need to discover why it is that some players and staff lack self-belief on the biggest day before we can try and do something about it. Make some people accountable for finding why it happens time and again and go and put a plan in place to fix it." Good post greenandred. And just to clarify I am in no way having a go at mayo. All I'm saying that a different approach to the way mayo fans react to losses is needed. The team and management needs to be called out on it. They need to be told that it's just not good enough. It's nearly acceptable for the mayo team to lose cause they know they wont face a backlash from the their supporters. It's all well and good "backing the team through thick and thin" etc, but that clearly hasn't worked. The team needs to know that it simply isn't good enough and maybe if they knew they were going to face a backlash, that might just be the extra motivation they need to make sure they don't lose again. Win at absolutely all costs!!!
ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 2007 - 12/09/2021 20:45:57
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Replying To royaldunne: "Meath have won a Leinster 11 years ago and have won all Ireland's in the time that mayo haven't and have a better strike rate than mayo. And will win Leinster and all ire before mayo will again. Did you not see our minors win the all ire this year despite been underdogs?" Sorry to burst your bubble bud, but if success at minor level was a precursor to success at senior, Galway would have more AI titles in both codes than just about any other county.
We don't.
festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3097 - 12/09/2021 20:53:20
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Replying To Young_gael: "Im writing this post in the best of sport and in the spirit of fairplay, and to start I have to congratulate Tyrone on their 4th All-Ireland win. Well
done, and enjoy the celebrations! A great performance. The following pist is meant as a kick start to a topic I think ought to be discussed, and I mean it as a fan first and foremost, and someone with enormous respect for Mayo GAA.
Getting onto the topic of my post, Mayo.....
Its very hard to sum up what Mayo football is about. It has to be one of the most puritanical and fanatic football counties there is. From my experience only Kerry and Cavan supporters generally surpass them in terms of their general interest in the club game and their devotion to the cause of the intercounty teams; football is the opium of the masses in these places, and no other sport is on the same platform. However Mayo have lost 11/12 All-Irelands in thirty years. This is a statistic that is unrivalled in any sport on the planet in any circumstances and quite literally over a period of 6/7 different team rotations over a period of a third of a century, they have lost and lost and lost again when the cup was there to be lifted. Im going to try point out why that is:
1/ they love the journey more than the endgoal. Mayo are happy with token trinkets such as the connacht championship and the odd win over a Kerry or Dublin etc in a knockout game. Theyre happy to
win a league title or reach a league final. Theyre happy with a nice write up in the paper and a few nice comments on the sunday game. They love travelling to games across the country and sharing their colours. Ruthlessness and the doggedness required to be winners at the very top level simply isnt in their DNA. Theyre too nice to put it very mildly and theyre satisfied deep down with the familiarity of the last 30 years.
2/ The next year phenomenon. Next year is another year. We will bounce back. Sure we'll go out and give it a shot. Sure we'll see what happens. Sure today just wasnt our best day. Sure we missed a few chances. The opposition just took their chances. The opposition was better on the day. etc etc ad nauseum to infinity. A huge lack of true self belief and an ability unrivalled in sport to rack up losses and move on as if nothing happened. Mayo always seem to
find some very eccentric pride and defiace and even obstinance in defeat. Theres always next year and every loss just adds to the mounatin of repressed emotions. Mayo for Sam 2022. The broken record keeps on spinning. A sport psychologist's nightmare.
3/ squads full to the brim with good players but who are overyhyped massively and generally reflect the attitude of their fanbase. The nicest people youll ever meet and a good team for any neutral to support, but theyre satisfied with having their photos in the paper or on facebook, and winning a tokenistic title, but never the All-Ireland. Theyre happy being everyone's second favorite team in the country after their own team and theyre happy being local celebrities and the big man about town and filling out their jerseys. Theyre caught up in a system which chews them up and spits them out as the poster boys of the heroic defeat or the pinup boys of the mighty underdog. The irony is that this is misunderstood every time they become competetive as genuine hype. The media will champion them until the very day they go out and win Sam Maguire, then all media interest will vanish into thin air and Mayo will suddenly become villains like many other counties, simply because they go out and win. Mayo's relationship with fame and celebrity and their neverending attitude of eternal nicety is why they are what they are. Their relationship with the Irish media and society is a factor of why they consistently fail." It's ...the curse stupid.!
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2155 - 12/09/2021 20:57:59
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Replying To Sssthe: "But there is simply no team in history who win against that 2016 or 2017 dublin team. The fact mayo were close going down the stretch doesn't mean dublin weren't a significantly better team. It means mayo were able to rise to the occasion unlike this year.
The 97, 04, 06 and this year mayo underperformed. The other finals they didn't." I think it's the other way round, the 97, 04,and 06 finals were the ones I wouldn't criticise them for, OK the final scores lacked respectability but they were never ever going to win those finals. Those Kerry teams were just far far to good for Mayo.
The Donegal team of 2012 were almost unbeatable too.
Put it this way, if the Mayo team of the last decade had the mettle of the Tyrone team of the 2000s they would have won at least one of those finals against the dubs.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1699 - 12/09/2021 21:12:19
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: ""Obviously Mayo have GREAT footballers or they couldn't get to the All Ireland on such a consistent basis but for one reason or another they come up short."
Just like the Galway hurlers?" Not just like the Galway hurlers, thankfully. It might have escaped you that we won the All-Ireland 4 years ago. We have a terrible record in finals, but at least I have very fresh memories of getting the job done. Your own county's current 'drought' is longer than ours.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2037 - 12/09/2021 21:16:05
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Ah yes I hear that players are deeply affected by whatever golf classics are going on in the background. That might be it surely." Ok fair enough but my point was more an observation looking in from the outside. Tyrone as a county looked to be focused on winning an All Ireland and getting their communities involved and getting their support out there. I noticed marketing for commercial options and supporting the county financially are going on in Tyrone now but the All Ireland is in the bag, the job is done.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 12/09/2021 21:27:21
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Replying To WanPintWin: " Replying To Cockney_Cat: ""Obviously Mayo have GREAT footballers or they couldn't get to the All Ireland on such a consistent basis but for one reason or another they come up short."
Just like the Galway hurlers?" Not just like the Galway hurlers, thankfully. It might have escaped you that we won the All-Ireland 4 years ago. We have a terrible record in finals, but at least I have very fresh memories of getting the job done. Your own county's current 'drought' is longer than ours."
In the last 30 years. Kilkenny have won 13 AI, and lost 7. Some 'drought'.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2447 - 12/09/2021 21:27:43
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Replying To Young_gael: "Im writing this post in the best of sport and in the spirit of fairplay, and to start I have to congratulate Tyrone on their 4th All-Ireland win. Well
done, and enjoy the celebrations! A great performance. The following pist is meant as a kick start to a topic I think ought to be discussed, and I mean it as a fan first and foremost, and someone with enormous respect for Mayo GAA.
Getting onto the topic of my post, Mayo.....
Its very hard to sum up what Mayo football is about. It has to be one of the most puritanical and fanatic football counties there is. From my experience only Kerry and Cavan supporters generally surpass them in terms of their general interest in the club game and their devotion to the cause of the intercounty teams; football is the opium of the masses in these places, and no other sport is on the same platform. However Mayo have lost 11/12 All-Irelands in thirty years. This is a statistic that is unrivalled in any sport on the planet in any circumstances and quite literally over a period of 6/7 different team rotations over a period of a third of a century, they have lost and lost and lost again when the cup was there to be lifted. Im going to try point out why that is:
1/ they love the journey more than the endgoal. Mayo are happy with token trinkets such as the connacht championship and the odd win over a Kerry or Dublin etc in a knockout game. Theyre happy to
win a league title or reach a league final. Theyre happy with a nice write up in the paper and a few nice comments on the sunday game. They love travelling to games across the country and sharing their colours. Ruthlessness and the doggedness required to be winners at the very top level simply isnt in their DNA. Theyre too nice to put it very mildly and theyre satisfied deep down with the familiarity of the last 30 years.
2/ The next year phenomenon. Next year is another year. We will bounce back. Sure we'll go out and give it a shot. Sure we'll see what happens. Sure today just wasnt our best day. Sure we missed a few chances. The opposition just took their chances. The opposition was better on the day. etc etc ad nauseum to infinity. A huge lack of true self belief and an ability unrivalled in sport to rack up losses and move on as if nothing happened. Mayo always seem to
find some very eccentric pride and defiace and even obstinance in defeat. Theres always next year and every loss just adds to the mounatin of repressed emotions. Mayo for Sam 2022. The broken record keeps on spinning. A sport psychologist's nightmare.
3/ squads full to the brim with good players but who are overyhyped massively and generally reflect the attitude of their fanbase. The nicest people youll ever meet and a good team for any neutral to support, but theyre satisfied with having their photos in the paper or on facebook, and winning a tokenistic title, but never the All-Ireland. Theyre happy being everyone's second favorite team in the country after their own team and theyre happy being local celebrities and the big man about town and filling out their jerseys. Theyre caught up in a system which chews them up and spits them out as the poster boys of the heroic defeat or the pinup boys of the mighty underdog. The irony is that this is misunderstood every time they become competetive as genuine hype. The media will champion them until the very day they go out and win Sam Maguire, then all media interest will vanish into thin air and Mayo will suddenly become villains like many other counties, simply because they go out and win. Mayo's relationship with fame and celebrity and their neverending attitude of eternal nicety is why they are what they are. Their relationship with the Irish media and society is a factor of why they consistently fail." Mayo try too hard sort of wound tight on the final day, as a result they underperform, yesterday was a prime example.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 12/09/2021 21:28:32
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Replying To ConnollyDub: "Good post greenandred. And just to clarify I am in no way having a go at mayo. All I'm saying that a different approach to the way mayo fans react to losses is needed. The team and management needs to be called out on it. They need to be told that it's just not good enough. It's nearly acceptable for the mayo team to lose cause they know they wont face a backlash from the their supporters. It's all well and good "backing the team through thick and thin" etc, but that clearly hasn't worked. The team needs to know that it simply isn't good enough and maybe if they knew they were going to face a backlash, that might just be the extra motivation they need to make sure they don't lose again. Win at absolutely all costs!!!" You want Mayo fans to backlash at these volunteer players who live and work in their communities and their families do too? They will of course not do that. Are you sure you are a GAA member ???
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 12/09/2021 21:36:16
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i Think they would have won it this year if killian O Connor had not got injured he was the one player they could not replace especially with such a young and inexperienced forward line. Their goal keeper conceding two own goals in another final getting a man sent off just as Dublin had one sent of in another final, ball hoping over the bar from 30 yards out to bring meath level after being 6 pints up say what ye like thats either very bad luck or some thing else at play
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 12/09/2021 21:46:59
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Replying To waynoI: "Sick of hearing ..... "next year"
THIS was their year. They dumped us out and Kerry werent in the final either. The two teams who were hotly favoured at the start of the year, gone. The 6 in a row champs outplayed and out fought for large periods and a Kerry team who were to take the mantle. Alas they ended up playing a Tyrone team who themselves hadnt played in a final in years. Mayo had far more experience of all Ireland finals in their ranks than Tyrone. Literally everything in their favour
And yet still, in typical Mayo fashion, they contrived to lose.
I never really want Mayo to win it, but after they beat us I was absolutely comfortable with the fact they will win it, this was their time, even more so when kerry went out.
But you know what, I dont feel sorry for Mayo. They are massive architects of their own downfall. I think they enjoy being bridesmaids. They enjoy the romance of being nearly men and the love in that the country have for them as a result. They all enjoy losing. They live of coming back from amazing failure and morale victories. Look at us, were never down for long arent we a great bunch that we always come back and get to the final.... but when it comes to it, they just dont have the cajones to get it over the line and it's time to admit that they never will. Their fans are brilliant, and they along with the players feel like they probably deserve an all Ireland. But they dont. You'll win one when you deserve to win one. Their mentality is weak. On the biggest of days, they fail again and again.
They'll always bounce back and when it comes to finals of all irelands, they'll always lose" Haha what a load of lazy nonsense. They all enjoy losing AI finals. What an utterly ridiculous comment. Captain Aido stands in the middle of the huddle at the second water break; "Alright lads I want to see some loose marking out here now, Loftus, I want to you to balloon a few shots high and wide. Come on now boys, we know how hard we've worked for this all year, we know how much we love losing finals. Let's go out there and make sure they outscore us and outfight us in the final quarter. LETS GO!"
Alright grand thanks now we've gotten to the bottom of it. What a waste of time of a post.
jonjon (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 12/09/2021 21:52:55
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Honestly think that mayo side yesterday not as good as they were in 16/17 when they peaked but came up against fantastic dublin side who went back themselves this year. The all ireland series was set up for composed well drilled and managed tyrone team with a great squad to win. That all said mayo really missed o connor yesterday. It was a big ask for the younger forwards to drive it home after dublin game esp up against for me the best defence in the country this summer.
seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1798 - 12/09/2021 22:33:50
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Replying To jonjon: "Haha what a load of lazy nonsense. They all enjoy losing AI finals. What an utterly ridiculous comment. Captain Aido stands in the middle of the huddle at the second water break; "Alright lads I want to see some loose marking out here now, Loftus, I want to you to balloon a few shots high and wide. Come on now boys, we know how hard we've worked for this all year, we know how much we love losing finals. Let's go out there and make sure they outscore us and outfight us in the final quarter. LETS GO!"
Alright grand thanks now we've gotten to the bottom of it. What a waste of time of a post." I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant lol.
Maybe with 10 minutes to go in a final, the game in the balance, while the opposition will drive in like their lives depend on it, Mayo players might subconsciously take the foot of the gas," what's another defeat, we're all legends at home anyways, sure there's always next year"
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1699 - 12/09/2021 22:50:00
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To be fair to Mayo, as a football county, they're clearly getting an awful lot right. They've been there or thereabouts for the last 25 years. I know there's been times where they've been down during that time but in the main they've been one of the best teams around, especially in the last 10 years. Clearly things are going well within the county to be consistently producing good teams.
In saying that it really is an incredibly strange record they've managed to accrue in All-Ireland finals.
For me just looking at the last ten years they've been a fantastic and thrilling team that has put themselves in great positions in All-Ireland Finals to win repeatedly. I think the only thing that I can see that might have made the difference is that they do not seem to learn from their previous mistakes. For example Hennelly making the same error for McShane's goal yesterday as he did for Brogan's first goal in 2013. Hennelly and Clarke rotating all through the decade but neither seeming to be able to work and improve their weaknesses.
Not giving Aidan O'Shea a clarity of position over the past 10 years too has been a failing of successive management teams as well. Neither a forward nor a midfielder, he's ended up a jack of all trades and master of none imo. His weakness in midfield defensively was clear from around 2013 so a tactic should have been worked on to get the best out of him but no one has ever really managed to do it. Consequently his performances have steadily declined over the best 5/6 years imo. Such a pity because I always thought he had the potential to be devastating.
I don't know if they'll ever get over the line as they're no guarantees in sport. The law of averages suggest that if they can keep getting themselves to finals then eventually one has to fall right for them.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 12/09/2021 22:59:56
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Brolly and a few boys on here would give Sigmund Freud a run for his money.
Ascribing sporting defeats to deep genetically inherited psychological defects is a slightly less credible explanation of Mayo's record in finals than the curse.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2524 - 12/09/2021 23:01:14
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Why is noone considering that Mayo were beaten by a better team who have been playing together for the last few years, building a panel rather than a starting 15, are probably a little furthur on in S and C than Mayos younger players some of whom are only in the championship 26 man squad the last couple of years. Mayos record in all the finals they lost bar the last one is completely irrelevant as only a handful of the panel played in some of them.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 12/09/2021 23:27:40
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: " Replying To WanPintWin: "[quote=Cockney_Cat: ""Obviously Mayo have GREAT footballers or they couldn't get to the All Ireland on such a consistent basis but for one reason or another they come up short."
Just like the Galway hurlers?" Not just like the Galway hurlers, thankfully. It might have escaped you that we won the All-Ireland 4 years ago. We have a terrible record in finals, but at least I have very fresh memories of getting the job done. Your own county's current 'drought' is longer than ours."
In the last 30 years. Kilkenny have won 13 AI, and lost 7. Some 'drought'."]Have a look in the dictionary for the word current. It's not what you'll find in some cakes and in this case it's also not what you might come across in the water.
Kilkenny are currently 6 years since they won an All-Ireland. Galway are 4. Not 'just' like the Mayo footballers, who haven't won in 70 years.
A bit of a difference between 4 and 70. A calculator and a dictionary for Christmas maybe.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2037 - 12/09/2021 23:43:21
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Replying To Galway9801: "I think it's the other way round, the 97, 04,and 06 finals were the ones I wouldn't criticise them for, OK the final scores lacked respectability but they were never ever going to win those finals. Those Kerry teams were just far far to good for Mayo.
The Donegal team of 2012 were almost unbeatable too.
Put it this way, if the Mayo team of the last decade had the mettle of the Tyrone team of the 2000s they would have won at least one of those finals against the dubs." Those Kerry and Donegal teams would not draw drinks of water to the Dublin 6 in a row teams. Nothing really to do with metal Dublin were just too good, if anything they were closer to Dublin than they should have been with pure heart and determination. The reality is they were the second best team in the country for the last few years. They just played the greatest team to ever play the game. You can have all the metal you want if a team is better than you the result will not go your way. Sometimes you can actually try too hard and care too much. Some times you have to be carefree and things happen for you.
ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 12/09/2021 23:47:06
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Replying To Galway9801: "I think it's the other way round, the 97, 04,and 06 finals were the ones I wouldn't criticise them for, OK the final scores lacked respectability but they were never ever going to win those finals. Those Kerry teams were just far far to good for Mayo.
The Donegal team of 2012 were almost unbeatable too.
Put it this way, if the Mayo team of the last decade had the mettle of the Tyrone team of the 2000s they would have won at least one of those finals against the dubs." Ah lads, cut out this metal mental bs. That Tyrone team 2003-2008 had at least 4 to 6 forwards that would have enhanced the Mayo forward line of 2011-2017. In contrast Mayo had perhaps 1or2 forwards (Moran & O'Connor only) that might have got a sniff of improving those Tyrone squads firepower. That's a massive difference, and hasn't a thing in the world to do with mentality or metalwork.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3410 - 12/09/2021 23:54:31
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