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Why Mayo Cant Win An All-Ireland

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Ulster pundits are often asked by the rté to give their opinions on games only involving Southern teams, the BBC would be well within their rights to bring Southern pundits on to their coverage, but I still don't think they will. The idea that only ulstermen should be asked to commentate and analyse ulster games by the BBC is silly,and (whisper it) partitionist.
My original post was in reply to tirchonaill who accused the rté of anti ulster bias, when I called him out on the BBCs anti southern bias you said you didn't agree, without specifying why, instead segueing into their superior coverage.
I allowed myself a smirk when you mentioned their superior camerawork, but I did ask you to be original so I guess that's fair enough, ( I don't think I've ever heard that point being made in relation to any sports coverage since the advent of HD, so it was original I'll give you that)"
I'm not your usual internet forum dude for sure! Partitionist is best whispered or you will have cars full of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan men driving around looking for you I'd imagine! I agree I dont think RTE are anti Ulster at all. I just think my 160 euro a year should be rewarded by better coverage of the games. While there are things I dont like about Skys coverage I like the way the get into the interesting stuff like tactics and overviews of how the teams are setting up etc. For example there was nothing much in the RTE coverage of Mayo v Tyrone about how the teams specifically set up to counter different aspects of each others style or gameplan. There was very little of any substance to the coverage by either pundits or commentators. There were numerous instances where the commentators didnt even seem to know what the subs coming on names were let alone what their strengths and weaknesses were or how they might affect the game. I dont think that the BBC have an anti Southern bias either. The lady they have doing interviews won club championships in Meath and another southern county as far as I know. I suppose a local pundit is more likely to know some of the substance about the teams playing than a lad from another province altogether. It has to be said RTEs hurling coverage seems to be alot better than their football coverage.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3341 - 20/09/2021 15:33:00    2381880

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With the exception of the farce in Limerick against Kerry, they've always been beaten by a better team. When they're the best team in Ireland, they'll win Sam.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11871 - 20/09/2021 16:02:56    2381893

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Ulster pundits are often asked by the rté to give their opinions on games only involving Southern teams, the BBC would be well within their rights to bring Southern pundits on to their coverage, but I still don't think they will. The idea that only ulstermen should be asked to commentate and analyse ulster games by the BBC is silly,and (whisper it) partitionist.
My original post was in reply to tirchonaill who accused the rté of anti ulster bias, when I called him out on the BBCs anti southern bias you said you didn't agree, without specifying why, instead segueing into their superior coverage.
I allowed myself a smirk when you mentioned their superior camerawork, but I did ask you to be original so I guess that's fair enough, ( I don't think I've ever heard that point being made in relation to any sports coverage since the advent of HD, so it was original I'll give you that)"
I agree they could bring Southern pundits in for Ulster Championship matches covered by BBC, I don't think they are against that, but tbh they don't seem that well organized, as they recently asked Mickey Harte live on air after a match if he would join them the following weekend again.

BBC is allowed very limited coverage to Ulster Championship matches, as many viewers within the six counties don't have terrestrial TV to RTE, and BBC don't have rights to other matches outside of Ulster, so focus is usually fixed to the two teams playing that day.

RTE coverage usually has 3 pundits, Two main guys are Colm O'Rourke (Leinster) and Pat Spillane (Munster), and usually Kevin McStay (Connacht) or Sean Cavanagh (Ulster) join them depending on who is playing that week. RTE have full tv rights to cover all matches from all four Provinces and RTE are funded from all 4 Provinces (Donegal, Cavan & Monaghan in Ulster).

SKY seem to have superior analysis, it think RTE is trying hard to catch up, but SKY is more factual and less political based analysis (No "Lets change the GAA rules and rid our world of this evil" style comments), I prefer listening to Jim McGuinness, James Horan, Kieran Donaghy, Peter Canavan etc, they give a better tactical insight than RTE, my favourite pundits on RTE are actually Kevin McStay and Ciaran Whelan.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 673 - 20/09/2021 16:11:08    2381895

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Replying To supersub15:  "Let's be brutally honest here, - Connaught final against Galway, Mayo did not turn up for the first half, they heaped pressure on themselves by starting the second half 5 or 6 points down, they somehow managed to beat Galway by something like 4 points, done and dusted in 35 mins (ish) that is plus 00-10 for Mayo over 35 mins (ish)


They met reigning All Ireland Champions who were going for 7 in a row, the same thing happened as it did with Galway, that is Mayo failed to turn up for the first half, they subsequently went in at half time trailing the Dub's by 6 points (ish). Mayo went on to beat Dublin by 00-03 points that is plus 00-09 for Mayo over 35 mins plus extra time.


There was a weighted mill stone hanging around the Mayo teams neck from the minute they beat the reigning All Ireland Champions who were going for 7 in a row, fact. It must go on record that no other top team in the country, like Kerry, Tyrone, Cavan, Cork, Monaghan, Meath, etc, etc, etc. came within an asses roar of beating Dublin, so here we have Mayo who have conveniently being ridiculed and criticised for failing to beat Dublin over 6 / 7 years.
All Ireland Semi-final 2021 Mayo finally did what no other county could do, they beat the Dub's over 35 mins plus extra time.

The failure of Mayo to beat Dublin between 2013 - 2020 inclusive and in particular, now mix that with the almost unexpected success Mayo had in semi final of 2021, there lies some of the reasons for their malfunction in the 2021 All Ireland final, the pressure must have been enormous, add to that the extra week postponement of the final with Tyrone, too much time to over think and ponder.

These are not excuses, they are reasons."

It must go on record that no other top team in the country, like Kerry, Tyrone, Cavan, Cork, Monaghan, Meath, etc, etc, etc. came within an asses roar of beating Dublin, so here we have Mayo who have conveniently being ridiculed and criticised for failing to beat Dublin over 6 / 7 years.
All Ireland Semi-final 2021 Mayo finally did what no other county could do, they beat the Dub's over 35 mins plus extra time.


the dublin team that played in the semi this year looked like a pale shadow (all year by the way) from the team that demolished all in front of them. Mayo did beat them but marginally, I think Tyrone/Kerry/Monaghan and possibly Donegal would have beaten them comfortably in normal time (this year!!!) . Dublin will be back and will be hurting, but I cannot see them having the same dominance that they had before, especially the impact from the bench which they always were strong in. And by the way a one point defeat still is a one point defeat.

Mayo had the same pressure as any other county, and this ***** about the extra week, if they had of won there would have been no mention of it, but because they lost its brought up.. ITS AN EXCUSE NOT A REASON.

Tyrone Controlled the match from the 5th minute on after a nervy start. Mayo were snatching at chances and shooting under pressure

conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 86 - 20/09/2021 16:23:04    2381898

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Replying To Breffni40:  "With the exception of the farce in Limerick against Kerry, they've always been beaten by a better team. When they're the best team in Ireland, they'll win Sam."
It's a pity they hadn't got past Kerry in that semi final, they'd likely have imploded again the final and we'd have another All Ireland, maybe we would have played better against Mayo too, was a very strange year 2014.
Kerry sure got their fill of luck that year.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1802 - 20/09/2021 16:26:50    2381900

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Replying To conman1282:  "
It must go on record that no other top team in the country, like Kerry, Tyrone, Cavan, Cork, Monaghan, Meath, etc, etc, etc. came within an asses roar of beating Dublin, so here we have Mayo who have conveniently being ridiculed and criticised for failing to beat Dublin over 6 / 7 years.
All Ireland Semi-final 2021 Mayo finally did what no other county could do, they beat the Dub's over 35 mins plus extra time.


the dublin team that played in the semi this year looked like a pale shadow (all year by the way) from the team that demolished all in front of them. Mayo did beat them but marginally, I think Tyrone/Kerry/Monaghan and possibly Donegal would have beaten them comfortably in normal time (this year!!!) . Dublin will be back and will be hurting, but I cannot see them having the same dominance that they had before, especially the impact from the bench which they always were strong in. And by the way a one point defeat still is a one point defeat.

Mayo had the same pressure as any other county, and this ***** about the extra week, if they had of won there would have been no mention of it, but because they lost its brought up.. ITS AN EXCUSE NOT A REASON.

Tyrone Controlled the match from the 5th minute on after a nervy start. Mayo were snatching at chances and shooting under pressure"
Vast majority of Mayo fans have congratulated and stated Tyrone were the better team and deserved the win. I've heard nobody in Mayo complain about the extra break from the semi final to final. Most actually though it would benefit us…anyway it's done now.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10821 - 20/09/2021 18:16:56    2381923

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Replying To Viking66:  "I'm not your usual internet forum dude for sure! Partitionist is best whispered or you will have cars full of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan men driving around looking for you I'd imagine! I agree I dont think RTE are anti Ulster at all. I just think my 160 euro a year should be rewarded by better coverage of the games. While there are things I dont like about Skys coverage I like the way the get into the interesting stuff like tactics and overviews of how the teams are setting up etc. For example there was nothing much in the RTE coverage of Mayo v Tyrone about how the teams specifically set up to counter different aspects of each others style or gameplan. There was very little of any substance to the coverage by either pundits or commentators. There were numerous instances where the commentators didnt even seem to know what the subs coming on names were let alone what their strengths and weaknesses were or how they might affect the game. I dont think that the BBC have an anti Southern bias either. The lady they have doing interviews won club championships in Meath and another southern county as far as I know. I suppose a local pundit is more likely to know some of the substance about the teams playing than a lad from another province altogether. It has to be said RTEs hurling coverage seems to be alot better than their football coverage."
In fairness I've grown a bit weary of the rté coverage myself if I'm being honest.
I used to love watching pat, Joe and Colm go at it, got great craic out of them but the last few years its gone a bit stale and in the last couple of years before Joe left his relationship with pat seemed to go a bit toxic.
Ger Canning too, while I was once a fan of him, seems a bit subdued these days compared to when I first started watching.
Darragh Maloney would be my favourite commentator personally,but I haven't seen him on there much at all lately.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 20/09/2021 19:10:19    2381931

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Vast majority of Mayo fans have congratulated and stated Tyrone were the better team and deserved the win. I've heard nobody in Mayo complain about the extra break from the semi final to final. Most actually though it would benefit us…anyway it's done now."
You are correct yew_tree It was I which referenced that, apologies for the misleading comment to Mayo and Tyrone.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2470 - 20/09/2021 19:16:06    2381933

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Replying To Galway9801:  "In fairness I've grown a bit weary of the rté coverage myself if I'm being honest.
I used to love watching pat, Joe and Colm go at it, got great craic out of them but the last few years its gone a bit stale and in the last couple of years before Joe left his relationship with pat seemed to go a bit toxic.
Ger Canning too, while I was once a fan of him, seems a bit subdued these days compared to when I first started watching.
Darragh Maloney would be my favourite commentator personally,but I haven't seen him on there much at all lately."
Ger Canning is 70, how come he's not retired? Michael Lyster is 67 and he's gone with a few years.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13793 - 20/09/2021 19:32:41    2381939

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Mayo continue to pick the biggest and fastest players in Mayo. Until they pick footballers over athletes they will never win.

brisbane (Galway) - Posts: 584 - 20/09/2021 20:21:16    2381945

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Think full time staff such as Michael Lyster and Mary Kennedy are obliged to retire at 65/66 while those on an independent rolling contract can go on for as long as they are required. Retired broadcasters can always return for various projects as Gay Byrne did and Sean O'Rourke had planned pre 'golf gate' .
Ger Canning not the most accurate but always eloquent, relaxed and easy listening . Hard to believe he is there 36yrs (1985). Did a bit of soccer commentary before that.

Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 412 - 20/09/2021 20:49:34    2381951

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I like Ger Canning as a commentator. He is also a wonderful Irish speaker. I don't know why Michael Lester was forced to retire given that Ger is older but I hope the latter continues to work for RTE.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1510 - 20/09/2021 21:03:10    2381952

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "I like Ger Canning as a commentator. He is also a wonderful Irish speaker. I don't know why Michael Lester was forced to retire given that Ger is older but I hope the latter continues to work for RTE."
Ah he's easy listening for sure but he's starting to get fellas names wrong now but sure there's no harm in that I suppose, he's better than Marty.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13793 - 20/09/2021 22:41:35    2381962

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Replying To brisbane:  "Mayo continue to pick the biggest and fastest players in Mayo. Until they pick footballers over athletes they will never win."
Cillian is not fast. Enda Hession while fast is not big. Colm Boyler is huge isn't he. I think a lack of quality up front is crux of the problem. Our half forward line don't score. Bryan Walsh not good enough. Diarmuid O Connor while a grafter and never gives up is burnt out and does not score. Aidan does not score.

I think the lack of a plan b is costing us at the last hurdle. Horan runs the ball and that's it. It's enough to win Connacht and beat most teams…we overrun and overpower them but when you get to the final hurdle it's game over. Our legs beat a tired Dublin team who were wobbling all year. Once we met a quality focused and fit team we were done….Tyrone were that team.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10821 - 20/09/2021 22:45:57    2381964

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "I like Ger Canning as a commentator. He is also a wonderful Irish speaker. I don't know why Michael Lester was forced to retire given that Ger is older but I hope the latter continues to work for RTE."
Cannings replacement should be very interesting, I can only imagine.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2470 - 20/09/2021 23:49:35    2381978

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Replying To brisbane:  "Mayo continue to pick the biggest and fastest players in Mayo. Until they pick footballers over athletes they will never win."
Mayo aren't picking the biggest for sure, but there's a heavy leaning towards strength, speed and mobility (engine) which I think can be taken too far (Mayo U20s this year showed no evidence of flair at all). Trouble is, if you don't have players on the pitch at senior level who are able to cover the park and stay with their marker you'll end up being blown away. The only real cure I can think of is to increase the number of subs allowed and enable genuine interchange. Wouldn't be easy for the core officials to keep track of so maybe umpires could be given the job of managing it. The key would be not allowing an interchange player onto the pitch until the player he's replacing is over the white line.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2451 - 21/09/2021 10:42:05    2381995

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Replying To The_Fonz:  "
Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

The better team won on the day but to say that "... Tyrone team who would have beaten any team put in front of them" is as far from the truth as its possible to get. Even with their flat performance that particular Mayo team (who are hardly world beaters) would have beaten them easily IF they had taken the majority of their chances.
If Monaghan (or Mayo or whoever) go into a second half leading by two points and fail to score a point till the hour mark while kicking several bad wides they are USUALLY coming home without the cup & probably on the end of a bad beating.
Tyrone won a handy All Ireland - Mayo left a handier one behind."
Did Tyrone not kick several wides in first 10-12 mins of second half? Could have been over by the second water break if they took all their chances too??"
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Yes Fonzie Tyrone did "kick several wides in first 10-12 mins of second half" and after that too. THAT was the central premise of the whole point of whatever it was my post was about.
Jaysis ;-)

Perhaps I didn't express myself with sufficient clarity.
Or maybe (3 green ticks !) this is why democracy doesn't work.
And no - a statement of the bleedin' obvious isn't disrespectful. Well not in some circles.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 237 - 21/09/2021 11:04:36    2382001

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Cillian is not fast. Enda Hession while fast is not big. Colm Boyler is huge isn't he. I think a lack of quality up front is crux of the problem. Our half forward line don't score. Bryan Walsh not good enough. Diarmuid O Connor while a grafter and never gives up is burnt out and does not score. Aidan does not score.

I think the lack of a plan b is costing us at the last hurdle. Horan runs the ball and that's it. It's enough to win Connacht and beat most teams…we overrun and overpower them but when you get to the final hurdle it's game over. Our legs beat a tired Dublin team who were wobbling all year. Once we met a quality focused and fit team we were done….Tyrone were that team."
Yep, hard to argue with any of that.
The horan style of football, ie serious s&c and running in waves from deep, is tried and trusted for beating the majority of teams in the country and easily overpowering connaught teams but it just isnt enough to beat the other top 3/4 teams

As you said the lack of anything resembling a half forward line is the biggest issue. AOS hasnt contributed anything in a big game, Walsh appears to be in solely because he is ballintubber and Diarmuids form seems to have dropped off a cliff this year. A classic old fashioned, playmaker at 11 would transform the team

I actually think ROD and Conroy are still on track for stellar careers and will improve, both done reasonably well in final so wouldnt write those 2 off as finals chokers

Funny thing is Mayo will find themselves in at least a semi again next year without breakin sweat given the shambles Joyce is making of the Galway job

HuddHastings (Longford) - Posts: 133 - 21/09/2021 11:08:53    2382003

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Cillian is not fast. Enda Hession while fast is not big. Colm Boyler is huge isn't he. I think a lack of quality up front is crux of the problem. Our half forward line don't score. Bryan Walsh not good enough. Diarmuid O Connor while a grafter and never gives up is burnt out and does not score. Aidan does not score.

I think the lack of a plan b is costing us at the last hurdle. Horan runs the ball and that's it. It's enough to win Connacht and beat most teams…we overrun and overpower them but when you get to the final hurdle it's game over. Our legs beat a tired Dublin team who were wobbling all year. Once we met a quality focused and fit team we were done….Tyrone were that team."
Yep, hard to argue with any of that.
The horan style of football, ie serious s&c and running in waves from deep, is tried and trusted for beating the majority of teams in the country and easily overpowering connaught teams but it just isnt enough to beat the other top 3/4 teams

As you said the lack of anything resembling a half forward line is the biggest issue. AOS hasnt contributed anything in a big game, Walsh appears to be in solely because he is ballintubber and Diarmuids form seems to have dropped off a cliff this year. A classic old fashioned, playmaker at 11 would transform the team

I actually think ROD and Conroy are still on track for stellar careers and will improve, both done reasonably well in final so wouldnt write those 2 off as finals chokers

Funny thing is Mayo will find themselves in at least a semi again next year without breakin sweat given the shambles Joyce is making of the Galway job

HuddHastings (Longford) - Posts: 133 - 21/09/2021 11:22:35    2382006

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After watching full match again I want to comment on basic Mayo errors. Tyrone were deserving winners alright but Mayo need to make better choices. Ryan Ó Donoghue made a fine contribution and I feel he has a big future with Mayo but he is one I have to mention. His last free was silly as he scored a point when Mayo needed 2 goals and the ref allowed more play so he should have gone for goal or tried to engineer one. Now that might not make a difference but who knows. Also Ryan missed two very score able frees (one from which the penalty came from) because there were more suited to a left leg kicker. Now Kevin McLoughlin could have scored them. Now those small things can make a big difference. Now maybe it was over confidence on Ryan's behalf or else the management team were at fault but the position of frees should dictate which player should take them.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2771 - 21/09/2021 11:53:29    2382019

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