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Mens GAA Ostrich With Head Stuck In The Sand

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After watching Ladies GAA finals at weekend you have to wonder how long the men's association will let the madness go on. Every county in Ireland has the same internal structure as the ladies organisation and we still don't trust the top brass to market these competitions successfully. We may need to tweek it, i.e senior and minor finals on one day and intermediate and junior on different day. Imagine if any county in Ireland informed its clubs that there was only going to be one championship next year a senior championships and all teams had to play senior there would be uproar and player strikes but that is what is happening at national level. Its not rocket science even a monkey could set it up.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 105 - 07/09/2021 13:19:04    2378502

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "After watching Ladies GAA finals at weekend you have to wonder how long the men's association will let the madness go on. Every county in Ireland has the same internal structure as the ladies organisation and we still don't trust the top brass to market these competitions successfully. We may need to tweek it, i.e senior and minor finals on one day and intermediate and junior on different day. Imagine if any county in Ireland informed its clubs that there was only going to be one championship next year a senior championships and all teams had to play senior there would be uproar and player strikes but that is what is happening at national level. Its not rocket science even a monkey could set it up."
Agree in principle.

But are you not already diminishing the intermediate and junior championships if the finals are to be played the one day?

I mean, surely they should both be in Croker, so you're talking about 4 counties sharing ticket allocations. If these are to be the national title that a county is striving for, then you'd like to think their fans would flock to attend.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4555 - 07/09/2021 13:54:30    2378517

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There's allot to be learned from the Ladies set-up for sure.. If you have the sports interest at heart!

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1217 - 07/09/2021 16:38:37    2378574

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "After watching Ladies GAA finals at weekend you have to wonder how long the men's association will let the madness go on. Every county in Ireland has the same internal structure as the ladies organisation and we still don't trust the top brass to market these competitions successfully. We may need to tweek it, i.e senior and minor finals on one day and intermediate and junior on different day. Imagine if any county in Ireland informed its clubs that there was only going to be one championship next year a senior championships and all teams had to play senior there would be uproar and player strikes but that is what is happening at national level. Its not rocket science even a monkey could set it up."
Did you not see the proposed dates for the Tailteann Cup?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5691 - 07/09/2021 17:11:27    2378584

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "After watching Ladies GAA finals at weekend you have to wonder how long the men's association will let the madness go on. Every county in Ireland has the same internal structure as the ladies organisation and we still don't trust the top brass to market these competitions successfully. We may need to tweek it, i.e senior and minor finals on one day and intermediate and junior on different day. Imagine if any county in Ireland informed its clubs that there was only going to be one championship next year a senior championships and all teams had to play senior there would be uproar and player strikes but that is what is happening at national level. Its not rocket science even a monkey could set it up."
Sure look that would be doing it right.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1391 - 07/09/2021 17:14:27    2378589

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I'm on the fence at this stage.
Streamlined championships will give weak counties competitive games and a chance to win something but very few people inside or outside the counties will care about those trophies and it won't make these counties competitive for Sam.

The bottom line is that every player in Ireland should be given the opportunity to play on the biggest stage for the biggest prizes so long as they're good enough. I'm not sure if there's any other sport on earth where geography dictates a players potential as opposed to ability.

Some sort of transfer system should be implemented imo, although while the games are amateur I'm not sure if that's feasible. Maybe work could be found for players in their new counties or something....

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 07/09/2021 21:52:16    2378648

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I'm on the fence at this stage.
Streamlined championships will give weak counties competitive games and a chance to win something but very few people inside or outside the counties will care about those trophies and it won't make these counties competitive for Sam.

The bottom line is that every player in Ireland should be given the opportunity to play on the biggest stage for the biggest prizes so long as they're good enough. I'm not sure if there's any other sport on earth where geography dictates a players potential as opposed to ability.

Some sort of transfer system should be implemented imo, although while the games are amateur I'm not sure if that's feasible. Maybe work could be found for players in their new counties or something...."
It may make more counties competitive in the long term. Counties competing will care about the trophies and more counties and their fans and players will have more to play for though

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2551 - 08/09/2021 19:00:51    2378868

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How many were at the ladies semi finals?

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 861 - 08/09/2021 20:20:31    2378883

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I'm on the fence at this stage.
Streamlined championships will give weak counties competitive games and a chance to win something but very few people inside or outside the counties will care about those trophies and it won't make these counties competitive for Sam.

The bottom line is that every player in Ireland should be given the opportunity to play on the biggest stage for the biggest prizes so long as they're good enough. I'm not sure if there's any other sport on earth where geography dictates a players potential as opposed to ability.

Some sort of transfer system should be implemented imo, although while the games are amateur I'm not sure if that's feasible. Maybe work could be found for players in their new counties or something...."
People won't care about a final played ahead of the Senior game with promotion up for grabs? Don't buy that at all.

I'd like to see League followed by a 2 tier championship (groups or double-elimination). Or have the top 16 + Tier 2 champions in Senior. Rest plus NY are in Intermediate.

Junior will be NY, British champions, and KK.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 457 - 08/09/2021 20:51:47    2378890

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Replying To KillingFields:  "It may make more counties competitive in the long term. Counties competing will care about the trophies and more counties and their fans and players will have more to play for though"
It's a 1950's Ireland solution, get rid of the weak instead of helping them up, throw them a couple of Mickey Mouse cups and hope they stay quiet.

It's easy to find a solution if you limit the terms of reference to begin with.

The GAA wont give these so called "weaker counties" the financial help they need, in fact they are trying to make money from them by generating more fixtures.

The whole thing needs to be reformed including the voting system at congress which is in my opinion the root of many of the problems in the GAA.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 08/09/2021 20:51:59    2378891

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I honestly don't think what works for women's football or hurling are automatically going to work for men's football.

I'm also not sure if the hurling competitions actually "work".

The main championship is obviously very good but there's not a whole lot of interest in the lower level competitions and are there many good examples of a team actually tangibly improving their level?

I'm not against a tiered competition in football, I just think the women and hurlers do it is a very weak argument.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3633 - 09/09/2021 18:07:35    2379154

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One thing I both like and dislike from the women's game is the hooter. I'd love the hooter to be brought into the men's game but with one difference. Once the hooter sounds play still continues until the ball goes dead like they do in rugby. Has it ever happened in the women's game where a team is a point down, takes a shot with seconds left and the hooter goes just before the ball goes over the bar or even where it's really hard to tell if the ball went over before the hooter? If it hasn't happened it surely will eventually.

the_walls (Mayo) - Posts: 493 - 09/09/2021 20:31:26    2379177

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Replying To the_walls:  "One thing I both like and dislike from the women's game is the hooter. I'd love the hooter to be brought into the men's game but with one difference. Once the hooter sounds play still continues until the ball goes dead like they do in rugby. Has it ever happened in the women's game where a team is a point down, takes a shot with seconds left and the hooter goes just before the ball goes over the bar or even where it's really hard to tell if the ball went over before the hooter? If it hasn't happened it surely will eventually."
There's been a few odd uses of the hooter. I recall one game involving Dublin a few years back where ref allowed play to continue for two minutes or so afterwards. There can also be technical issues I think where play is stopped and ball is dead but clock runs on.

I think it would be a potentially useful introduction to men's senior. Given all the other stupid rules they trialled they could surely do this in the league?

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 313 - 09/09/2021 22:09:21    2379194

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "It's a 1950's Ireland solution, get rid of the weak instead of helping them up, throw them a couple of Mickey Mouse cups and hope they stay quiet.

It's easy to find a solution if you limit the terms of reference to begin with.

The GAA wont give these so called "weaker counties" the financial help they need, in fact they are trying to make money from them by generating more fixtures.

The whole thing needs to be reformed including the voting system at congress which is in my opinion the root of many of the problems in the GAA."
This idea that the GAA should "help" these counties makes no sense.

The GAA could pump a million euro a year into the likes of Waterford, Carlow etc and they still more than likely wouldn't even make a provisional final.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 705 - 10/09/2021 09:10:40    2379235

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "It's a 1950's Ireland solution, get rid of the weak instead of helping them up, throw them a couple of Mickey Mouse cups and hope they stay quiet.

It's easy to find a solution if you limit the terms of reference to begin with.

The GAA wont give these so called "weaker counties" the financial help they need, in fact they are trying to make money from them by generating more fixtures.

The whole thing needs to be reformed including the voting system at congress which is in my opinion the root of many of the problems in the GAA."
You are one hundred percent correct. The GAA thinks that by dividing the current intercounty in a junior, intermediate and senior that it will magically close the gap between the weak and strong counties but all it will achieve is to eliminate a large portion of the counties into a mickey mouse competition like the Tommy Murphy cup and forget about them. Sure as long as we have the Kerrys, Dublins and Mayos, why do we need the Leitrims, Carlows and Wicklows. At the same time, county boards are suppose to sell a dream to a young lad that playing for his county will lead to him being able to compete with the best, a pipe dream that is hard to sell as the days go by. At inter county level there are professional teams like Dublin, Kerry, Mayo etc and then there are teams with various degrees of resources, all the way down to the teams that have little or no resources. Everyone knows that gaelic football is all about preparation, attention to detail, coaching and strength and conditioning which costs money. Some of the professional teams have more members in their backroom team than some counties have players. Alternatively, the GAA if they can't or more likely don't want to help weaker counties should tell weaker counties that they are going to be feeder teams for the professional teams and allow talented individuals in these counties to transfer to the bigger more professional counties, like happens in soccer. It is time for the GAA to decide do they want a handful of teams sharing everything amongst themselves or do they want to try and improve the standard across the board so that there is competition. The only way to bridge the gaps that exist is to help the middle and weaker counties through financial incentives and access to expertise where none exists in a county.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1437 - 10/09/2021 09:34:46    2379241

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "You are one hundred percent correct. The GAA thinks that by dividing the current intercounty in a junior, intermediate and senior that it will magically close the gap between the weak and strong counties but all it will achieve is to eliminate a large portion of the counties into a mickey mouse competition like the Tommy Murphy cup and forget about them. Sure as long as we have the Kerrys, Dublins and Mayos, why do we need the Leitrims, Carlows and Wicklows. At the same time, county boards are suppose to sell a dream to a young lad that playing for his county will lead to him being able to compete with the best, a pipe dream that is hard to sell as the days go by. At inter county level there are professional teams like Dublin, Kerry, Mayo etc and then there are teams with various degrees of resources, all the way down to the teams that have little or no resources. Everyone knows that gaelic football is all about preparation, attention to detail, coaching and strength and conditioning which costs money. Some of the professional teams have more members in their backroom team than some counties have players. Alternatively, the GAA if they can't or more likely don't want to help weaker counties should tell weaker counties that they are going to be feeder teams for the professional teams and allow talented individuals in these counties to transfer to the bigger more professional counties, like happens in soccer. It is time for the GAA to decide do they want a handful of teams sharing everything amongst themselves or do they want to try and improve the standard across the board so that there is competition. The only way to bridge the gaps that exist is to help the middle and weaker counties through financial incentives and access to expertise where none exists in a county."
You are correct in relation to helping small counties but lPeople have to realise that you have to play to your level. And just because you have a football team does not give you the right to play in the all Ireland series. If you are a junior team you play to your level you do not play senior. If you win junior and then intermediate then you play senior and not before. No point playing in a comp that you have no chance of winning anything in. Play at your level win that then compete at the next level. In fairness it should be done like the hurling.

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 206 - 10/09/2021 10:24:55    2379263

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Replying To ecad123:  "You are correct in relation to helping small counties but lPeople have to realise that you have to play to your level. And just because you have a football team does not give you the right to play in the all Ireland series. If you are a junior team you play to your level you do not play senior. If you win junior and then intermediate then you play senior and not before. No point playing in a comp that you have no chance of winning anything in. Play at your level win that then compete at the next level. In fairness it should be done like the hurling."
I don't think that anyone is opposing the idea that teams should play at their own level but there are big forces at play than the structure is my argument. I understand that it was the Wicklow county board who brought the motion to congress about the introduction of a tiered championship in 2019. The problem I (and other people might agree with me) have is that the same county board don't seem to realise that by failing to invest as a county we are falling further and further behind county teams that have much more resources than we have as a county. This is the same county board that minimise what it invests annually and wonders why players won't turn out for the county.

How does the GAA or the Wicklow county board propose to encourage young players or club players to play for the county when they see that what is being proposed is a rehash of previous mickey mouse competitions like the tommy murphy cup which I attended when Wicklow won it under Mick O'Dwyer and experienced it being played in a near empty stadium at 12:30am? Wicklow got the final the following year and I didn't even go.

These players are not being given the same chance as counties at the top of the tree and the chances of them ever been given the chance to pit themselves against these top teams is reducing with every proposed change. A tiered championship wont bridge the gap as the gap is widening; it isn't just Leitrim, Wicklow etc that are falling behind and finding it hard to sell the intercounty scene to club players, there is a big gap developing between Division 1 and 2 where Clare got hammered by Kerry in this year's championship after nearly gaining promotion to Division 1 of the league!!!!

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1437 - 10/09/2021 11:24:12    2379280

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Replying To ecad123:  "You are correct in relation to helping small counties but lPeople have to realise that you have to play to your level. And just because you have a football team does not give you the right to play in the all Ireland series. If you are a junior team you play to your level you do not play senior. If you win junior and then intermediate then you play senior and not before. No point playing in a comp that you have no chance of winning anything in. Play at your level win that then compete at the next level. In fairness it should be done like the hurling."
No no , you can't start comparing inter county football to club football and treating countries like they are some little parish who can only field a junior or intermediate team , that's total nonsense to be honest.

If you take Dublin as an example , let's say they got zero funding or zero sponsorship do you think they would start to fall, stay as they are or improve in the coming years ?

Of course they would start to fall back, but if you disagree with me feel free to reply and make a case .

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 10/09/2021 11:26:14    2379281

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "You are one hundred percent correct. The GAA thinks that by dividing the current intercounty in a junior, intermediate and senior that it will magically close the gap between the weak and strong counties but all it will achieve is to eliminate a large portion of the counties into a mickey mouse competition like the Tommy Murphy cup and forget about them. Sure as long as we have the Kerrys, Dublins and Mayos, why do we need the Leitrims, Carlows and Wicklows. At the same time, county boards are suppose to sell a dream to a young lad that playing for his county will lead to him being able to compete with the best, a pipe dream that is hard to sell as the days go by. At inter county level there are professional teams like Dublin, Kerry, Mayo etc and then there are teams with various degrees of resources, all the way down to the teams that have little or no resources. Everyone knows that gaelic football is all about preparation, attention to detail, coaching and strength and conditioning which costs money. Some of the professional teams have more members in their backroom team than some counties have players. Alternatively, the GAA if they can't or more likely don't want to help weaker counties should tell weaker counties that they are going to be feeder teams for the professional teams and allow talented individuals in these counties to transfer to the bigger more professional counties, like happens in soccer. It is time for the GAA to decide do they want a handful of teams sharing everything amongst themselves or do they want to try and improve the standard across the board so that there is competition. The only way to bridge the gaps that exist is to help the middle and weaker counties through financial incentives and access to expertise where none exists in a county."
2 tiers are enough. You still want counties to have a challenge.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 457 - 10/09/2021 11:39:55    2379288

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How about a "festival of football" or "festival of hurling" weekend for the finals, rather than playing all tiers on the same day? For example, in Football, play the Tier 2 final on the Saturday afternoon (likely to have a decent crowd, due to the participating counties), and play minor or U20 as a curtain-raiser, if you wish. Then play the Tier 3 final as curtain-raiser to the Sam Maguire decider on the Sunday.

football first (None) - Posts: 1239 - 10/09/2021 12:19:42    2379302

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