National Forum

Upcoming Special Congress

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If Proposal B had been passed last week. How would the GAA TV landscape be like? In particular as regards the Provincal Championships.RTE obviously would be covering games.Would The Sunday Game be back on Sunday night in February?Would TG4 and Sky be involved? Eir obviously wont as they are going off air shortly.Maybe Premier Sports.Live streaming will come into its own.Would a subscription based GAA channel be viable for maybe six months of the year?.Obviously the N.H. League would be running alongside the football Provincials as well.

edu (Mayo) - Posts: 18 - 30/10/2021 12:48:36    2387883

Link

Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "Offering AI places to Div 3 and 4 teams is the type of nonsense that delays real change. Its a patronizing sop to weaker counties.

The only way to make a second tier competition relevant is to exclude these teams from competing in the AI series within that year. Then it becomes a real contest and the reward for winning is a shot at the big time next year. The celebrations following every Intermediate championship win over the next few weeks prove that. The achievement is the promotion, not just the cup itself. Grade 2 final on the same day as the All Ireland final by definition would be a great help. Counties like Antrim and Fermanagh and Monaghan will have to see sense on this

As for the provincials, the inequities in starting point do not need repeating. However, a link to AI will be needed to get change. In my view, the provincials should become the qualifiers/back door/wild card route into the knockout stages. To curb the risk of making things too easy for some counties, only 2 places from provincial winners should be reserved for the final knockout places."
I'd like to see 1A/1B and 2A/2B, with the top 8 in Div 2 joining the bottom 8 in Div 1 in stronger (mouthwatering?) Tier 2 AIC playoffs (last 8 go or stay Div 1 the following year). The top 8 in Div 1 to Tier 1 playoffs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2162 - 30/10/2021 12:57:00    2387884

Link

Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "Offering AI places to Div 3 and 4 teams is the type of nonsense that delays real change. Its a patronizing sop to weaker counties.

The only way to make a second tier competition relevant is to exclude these teams from competing in the AI series within that year. Then it becomes a real contest and the reward for winning is a shot at the big time next year. The celebrations following every Intermediate championship win over the next few weeks prove that. The achievement is the promotion, not just the cup itself. Grade 2 final on the same day as the All Ireland final by definition would be a great help. Counties like Antrim and Fermanagh and Monaghan will have to see sense on this

As for the provincials, the inequities in starting point do not need repeating. However, a link to AI will be needed to get change. In my view, the provincials should become the qualifiers/back door/wild card route into the knockout stages. To curb the risk of making things too easy for some counties, only 2 places from provincial winners should be reserved for the final knockout places."
"only 2 places from provincial winners should be reserved for the final knockout places". Interesting; how do you decide which two? And I presume the other two would still get to take part, only further down the ladder.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 699 - 30/10/2021 13:29:59    2387889

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  ""only 2 places from provincial winners should be reserved for the final knockout places". Interesting; how do you decide which two? And I presume the other two would still get to take part, only further down the ladder."
You could have 2 highest league placed of 4, I suppose.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2162 - 30/10/2021 17:49:26    2387900

Link

Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  ""only 2 places from provincial winners should be reserved for the final knockout places". Interesting; how do you decide which two? And I presume the other two would still get to take part, only further down the ladder."
There are 4 key difficulties to the whole thing in my view
1. How to link provincials to AI (this will definitely need to happen to get progress)
2. How to balance the ease/difficulty of very different provinces when it comes to AI placings

3. How to give enough meaningful games to mid-range and lower range teams through the summer
4. How to avoid dead rubber matches

5. How to end the season with an engaging knock out phase; and critically
6 How to make sure adequate time is available for the club game.

Some of these seem to work directly against each other which adds to the complexity. But they will all need to be addressed to have a senior competition we can all buy into. Not simple.

My contention therefore is that a 3 tier system is needed. The league must be blended with championship.
A 12 team top tier
A 10 team middle tier
An 8 team lower tier

Please bear with me....

The top tier would run as 2 pools. The top 3 teams from each would progress to knockout with the top ranked team having home advantage as a reward. That's 6 QF places sorted. There is no Div 1 league title- teams are not bothered about it anyway. The reward for high league performance is a place in the AI knockout rounds.

The remaining 2 AI places would be awarded to the winners of 2 playoffs of provincial winners. This step gives the lower tier teams a route to the All Ireland knockout but also limits the so-called 'easy route' from some provinces. So if Armagh, Galway, Dublin and Cork win through their provinces it could be Armagh v Dublin and Cork v Galway for 2 QF places.

What if a team finishes in the top 3 and comes through the provincial side? They go straight into a semi. This will reward an Ulster champion team for example who also finish high up in the groups.

At the lower end, the lowest 2 teams will play off to decide relegation.

In the middle tier, 2 groups of 5 will occur. The top 2 in each will pair off for semis AB BA with highest team having home advantage. An 'Intermediate Final' will decide promotion. Lowest 2 teams play off for relegation. To add an extra game at this level, an open draw with teams playing opponents from the other side of the draw groups will be played in Rd 1. This will add a good element to kick off the competition. Keeping only 1 promotion place will make the final a meaningful one.

For the lowest tier 8 teams will play as a standard league format. Top team into final with 2nd and 3rd playing a semi. This reduces the dead rubber matches later in the season.

T[he provincial championships continue as a straight knockout, with seeded for preliminary Leinster rounds based on league position. A team like TIpp or Cavan can make an All Ireland QF by winning as they did last year. However, there are no places reserved for 2nd and 3rd tier teams through the league system.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 864 - 30/10/2021 17:57:42    2387901

Link

Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "There are 4 key difficulties to the whole thing in my view
1. How to link provincials to AI (this will definitely need to happen to get progress)
2. How to balance the ease/difficulty of very different provinces when it comes to AI placings

3. How to give enough meaningful games to mid-range and lower range teams through the summer
4. How to avoid dead rubber matches

5. How to end the season with an engaging knock out phase; and critically
6 How to make sure adequate time is available for the club game.

Some of these seem to work directly against each other which adds to the complexity. But they will all need to be addressed to have a senior competition we can all buy into. Not simple.

My contention therefore is that a 3 tier system is needed. The league must be blended with championship.
A 12 team top tier
A 10 team middle tier
An 8 team lower tier

Please bear with me....

The top tier would run as 2 pools. The top 3 teams from each would progress to knockout with the top ranked team having home advantage as a reward. That's 6 QF places sorted. There is no Div 1 league title- teams are not bothered about it anyway. The reward for high league performance is a place in the AI knockout rounds.

The remaining 2 AI places would be awarded to the winners of 2 playoffs of provincial winners. This step gives the lower tier teams a route to the All Ireland knockout but also limits the so-called 'easy route' from some provinces. So if Armagh, Galway, Dublin and Cork win through their provinces it could be Armagh v Dublin and Cork v Galway for 2 QF places.

What if a team finishes in the top 3 and comes through the provincial side? They go straight into a semi. This will reward an Ulster champion team for example who also finish high up in the groups.

At the lower end, the lowest 2 teams will play off to decide relegation.

In the middle tier, 2 groups of 5 will occur. The top 2 in each will pair off for semis AB BA with highest team having home advantage. An 'Intermediate Final' will decide promotion. Lowest 2 teams play off for relegation. To add an extra game at this level, an open draw with teams playing opponents from the other side of the draw groups will be played in Rd 1. This will add a good element to kick off the competition. Keeping only 1 promotion place will make the final a meaningful one.

For the lowest tier 8 teams will play as a standard league format. Top team into final with 2nd and 3rd playing a semi. This reduces the dead rubber matches later in the season.

T[he provincial championships continue as a straight knockout, with seeded for preliminary Leinster rounds based on league position. A team like TIpp or Cavan can make an All Ireland QF by winning as they did last year. However, there are no places reserved for 2nd and 3rd tier teams through the league system."
Errrr there are 31 Senior Counties plus London.
Who are you getting rid of?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 79 - 30/10/2021 20:54:30    2387917

Link

Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "
Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "There are 4 key difficulties to the whole thing in my view
1. How to link provincials to AI (this will definitely need to happen to get progress)
2. How to balance the ease/difficulty of very different provinces when it comes to AI placings

3. How to give enough meaningful games to mid-range and lower range teams through the summer
4. How to avoid dead rubber matches

5. How to end the season with an engaging knock out phase; and critically
6 How to make sure adequate time is available for the club game.

Some of these seem to work directly against each other which adds to the complexity. But they will all need to be addressed to have a senior competition we can all buy into. Not simple.

My contention therefore is that a 3 tier system is needed. The league must be blended with championship.
A 12 team top tier
A 10 team middle tier
An 8 team lower tier

Please bear with me....

The top tier would run as 2 pools. The top 3 teams from each would progress to knockout with the top ranked team having home advantage as a reward. That's 6 QF places sorted. There is no Div 1 league title- teams are not bothered about it anyway. The reward for high league performance is a place in the AI knockout rounds.

The remaining 2 AI places would be awarded to the winners of 2 playoffs of provincial winners. This step gives the lower tier teams a route to the All Ireland knockout but also limits the so-called 'easy route' from some provinces. So if Armagh, Galway, Dublin and Cork win through their provinces it could be Armagh v Dublin and Cork v Galway for 2 QF places.

What if a team finishes in the top 3 and comes through the provincial side? They go straight into a semi. This will reward an Ulster champion team for example who also finish high up in the groups.

At the lower end, the lowest 2 teams will play off to decide relegation.

In the middle tier, 2 groups of 5 will occur. The top 2 in each will pair off for semis AB BA with highest team having home advantage. An 'Intermediate Final' will decide promotion. Lowest 2 teams play off for relegation. To add an extra game at this level, an open draw with teams playing opponents from the other side of the draw groups will be played in Rd 1. This will add a good element to kick off the competition. Keeping only 1 promotion place will make the final a meaningful one.

For the lowest tier 8 teams will play as a standard league format. Top team into final with 2nd and 3rd playing a semi. This reduces the dead rubber matches later in the season.

T[he provincial championships continue as a straight knockout, with seeded for preliminary Leinster rounds based on league position. A team like TIpp or Cavan can make an All Ireland QF by winning as they did last year. However, there are no places reserved for 2nd and 3rd tier teams through the league system."
Errrr there are 31 Senior Counties plus London.
Who are you getting rid of?"
Sometimes you just have to laugh and admit mea culpa.
Of course, 32 including London would be 12 in Div1, 12 in Div2 and 8 in Div3...
But this structure can work (!)

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 864 - 31/10/2021 07:55:37    2387927

Link

Proposal B almost got there so should stay as the basis for the next proposal. It just needs to be tweaked to keep everyone happy.

Problem 1 - relegating provincials to early season
Repair: start league championship round earlier and play in blocks of 2 weeks :Mid Feb start - May finish with provincials played at 1 round per month and May finish also

Problem 2 - no place for provincial champions in all ireland Knick out stage
Fix - expand all ireland knock out stage and guarantee provincial winners a place in it

Problem 3 - six place team in div 1 doesn't reach all ireland knock out stage
Fix - expand all ireland knock out stage to allow them in

The above is simple but needs to ensure that the league matches are competitive. The key is how the knock out stage is refigured:

1. Top 2 in div 1 play off for league title and home draws in all ireland race - i.e - if Mayo win the league they have a home draw in all ireland quarter finals and choice of venue for all ireland semi final (could move a semi v Dublin out of Croke park)

2. Provincial winners play off for two q final spots (if not already qualified from the above)

3. Div 1 3-6 play off for 2q final spot 3rd &4th place team plays at home in playoff)

4. Div 2 winner plays div 4 winner for 1q final spot

5. Div 2 runner up plays div 3 winner for 1 qfinal spot

So based on 2020 league &championship the all ireland q final play offs would have been

Div 1 final -Kerry v Dublin in Killarney - let's say Kerry win that

Div 1 3-6 play offs - Galway V Monaghan in Salthill and Donegal v Tyrone in Ballybofey - Galway and Donegal win

Div 2&4 winners play off - Roscommon v Wicklow in the Hyde - Rossie win

Div 2rup/3winners - Armagh v Cork - Armagh win

Provincial winners playoffs - Mayo, Tipp, Cavan, Dublin - play off between Cavan & Tipp because Dublin already qualified and Mayo finished highest of the other 3 in the league - let's say Cavan beat Tipp

So all ireland Qfinal draw is
Kerry, Dublin, Galway, Donegal, Mayo, Cavan, Roscommon, Armagh

Open draw and only Kerry have home rights - everyone else play on actual Neutral venues except Croke Park semis

If Kerry get to semis they have right to choose a non croke park neutral venue - other semi is in Croke park no matter who it is

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 881 - 31/10/2021 08:37:32    2387932

Link

Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Proposal B almost got there so should stay as the basis for the next proposal. It just needs to be tweaked to keep everyone happy.

Problem 1 - relegating provincials to early season
Repair: start league championship round earlier and play in blocks of 2 weeks :Mid Feb start - May finish with provincials played at 1 round per month and May finish also

Problem 2 - no place for provincial champions in all ireland Knick out stage
Fix - expand all ireland knock out stage and guarantee provincial winners a place in it

Problem 3 - six place team in div 1 doesn't reach all ireland knock out stage
Fix - expand all ireland knock out stage to allow them in

The above is simple but needs to ensure that the league matches are competitive. The key is how the knock out stage is refigured:

1. Top 2 in div 1 play off for league title and home draws in all ireland race - i.e - if Mayo win the league they have a home draw in all ireland quarter finals and choice of venue for all ireland semi final (could move a semi v Dublin out of Croke park)

2. Provincial winners play off for two q final spots (if not already qualified from the above)

3. Div 1 3-6 play off for 2q final spot 3rd &4th place team plays at home in playoff)

4. Div 2 winner plays div 4 winner for 1q final spot

5. Div 2 runner up plays div 3 winner for 1 qfinal spot

So based on 2020 league &championship the all ireland q final play offs would have been

Div 1 final -Kerry v Dublin in Killarney - let's say Kerry win that

Div 1 3-6 play offs - Galway V Monaghan in Salthill and Donegal v Tyrone in Ballybofey - Galway and Donegal win

Div 2&4 winners play off - Roscommon v Wicklow in the Hyde - Rossie win

Div 2rup/3winners - Armagh v Cork - Armagh win

Provincial winners playoffs - Mayo, Tipp, Cavan, Dublin - play off between Cavan & Tipp because Dublin already qualified and Mayo finished highest of the other 3 in the league - let's say Cavan beat Tipp

So all ireland Qfinal draw is
Kerry, Dublin, Galway, Donegal, Mayo, Cavan, Roscommon, Armagh

Open draw and only Kerry have home rights - everyone else play on actual Neutral venues except Croke Park semis

If Kerry get to semis they have right to choose a non croke park neutral venue - other semi is in Croke park no matter who it is"
I just disagree with your fundamental premise.

Proposal B nearly got there because people are dying for any change. It ultimately failed because it was a bad system and needs a bigger change.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3640 - 31/10/2021 10:52:34    2387942

Link

Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Proposal B almost got there so should stay as the basis for the next proposal. It just needs to be tweaked to keep everyone happy.

Problem 1 - relegating provincials to early season
Repair: start league championship round earlier and play in blocks of 2 weeks :Mid Feb start - May finish with provincials played at 1 round per month and May finish also

Problem 2 - no place for provincial champions in all ireland Knick out stage
Fix - expand all ireland knock out stage and guarantee provincial winners a place in it

Problem 3 - six place team in div 1 doesn't reach all ireland knock out stage
Fix - expand all ireland knock out stage to allow them in

The above is simple but needs to ensure that the league matches are competitive. The key is how the knock out stage is refigured:

1. Top 2 in div 1 play off for league title and home draws in all ireland race - i.e - if Mayo win the league they have a home draw in all ireland quarter finals and choice of venue for all ireland semi final (could move a semi v Dublin out of Croke park)

2. Provincial winners play off for two q final spots (if not already qualified from the above)

3. Div 1 3-6 play off for 2q final spot 3rd &4th place team plays at home in playoff)

4. Div 2 winner plays div 4 winner for 1q final spot

5. Div 2 runner up plays div 3 winner for 1 qfinal spot

So based on 2020 league &championship the all ireland q final play offs would have been

Div 1 final -Kerry v Dublin in Killarney - let's say Kerry win that

Div 1 3-6 play offs - Galway V Monaghan in Salthill and Donegal v Tyrone in Ballybofey - Galway and Donegal win

Div 2&4 winners play off - Roscommon v Wicklow in the Hyde - Rossie win

Div 2rup/3winners - Armagh v Cork - Armagh win

Provincial winners playoffs - Mayo, Tipp, Cavan, Dublin - play off between Cavan & Tipp because Dublin already qualified and Mayo finished highest of the other 3 in the league - let's say Cavan beat Tipp

So all ireland Qfinal draw is
Kerry, Dublin, Galway, Donegal, Mayo, Cavan, Roscommon, Armagh

Open draw and only Kerry have home rights - everyone else play on actual Neutral venues except Croke Park semis

If Kerry get to semis they have right to choose a non croke park neutral venue - other semi is in Croke park no matter who it is"
Quarter finals and semi finals should only be held in Croke Park. Why create an overly complex system. Players want a league format during the summer and resolving the 6th placed issue will get enough votes to flip.

Why not just have 2 divisions of 16. Either 2 groups of 8 in each or 1 group of 16 in which every team gets to play 8 games against others of various strengths. Then you have 6 or 8 advancing to the knockout stages. Bottom 4 are relegated to Division 2.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 467 - 31/10/2021 10:54:34    2387943

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Quarter finals and semi finals should only be held in Croke Park. Why create an overly complex system. Players want a league format during the summer and resolving the 6th placed issue will get enough votes to flip.

Why not just have 2 divisions of 16. Either 2 groups of 8 in each or 1 group of 16 in which every team gets to play 8 games against others of various strengths. Then you have 6 or 8 advancing to the knockout stages. Bottom 4 are relegated to Division 2."
I think semifinals should all be Croke Park.

I think quarterfinals home advantage.

Some of the worst atmospheres in the game are a half filled Croke for a quarterfinal.

There are grounds perfect for quarterfinals we should use them.

A really simple format would be Championship 1: 14 teams playing each other once. Top 6 qualifying. 3rd and 4th placed teams getting a home quarterfinal.

Championship 2:

18 teams where they play 12 fixtures rather than a full round robin and have 8th placed plus ties getting through to the playoffs.

Finalists promoted.

Maybe have losing semifinalists playoff v 11th and 13th teams in Championship 1.

Play the Provincials over 5 weeks at the start.

Remaining 19 or 20 weeks work for the remainder of the season of max 16 weeks.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3640 - 31/10/2021 12:25:44    2387948

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Replying To omahant:  "And instead of 1A/1B and 2A/2B, how about a 1-div 32-county, 4 balanced groups of 8 (my post on this page 51) ? I replace the 1v4 games with 1v1 and 4v4 pairings (div 1 teams play 3 head-to-head, 1 more than div 2 and div 3 play v div 1."
If teams are prevented from drawing one another it's an indication that they shouldn't be playing in the same competition.

For me the priority should be towards having a good quality championship, means it needs to have competitive integrity which means there shouldn't be handicapping to benefit poor performing teams.

Honestly people are too busy trying to work other angles and lose sight of this core principle of engaging competition.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3640 - 31/10/2021 12:30:29    2387950

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I think semifinals should all be Croke Park.

I think quarterfinals home advantage.

Some of the worst atmospheres in the game are a half filled Croke for a quarterfinal.

There are grounds perfect for quarterfinals we should use them.

A really simple format would be Championship 1: 14 teams playing each other once. Top 6 qualifying. 3rd and 4th placed teams getting a home quarterfinal.

Championship 2:

18 teams where they play 12 fixtures rather than a full round robin and have 8th placed plus ties getting through to the playoffs.

Finalists promoted.

Maybe have losing semifinalists playoff v 11th and 13th teams in Championship 1.

Play the Provincials over 5 weeks at the start.

Remaining 19 or 20 weeks work for the remainder of the season of max 16 weeks."
I'd keep a 2 tier system at 16 each. Derry, Cork, Down, and Offaly are in that 12-16 area. Every team plays 8 fixtures which would suit every county.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 467 - 31/10/2021 12:57:49    2387951

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Replying To Whammo86:  "If teams are prevented from drawing one another it's an indication that they shouldn't be playing in the same competition.

For me the priority should be towards having a good quality championship, means it needs to have competitive integrity which means there shouldn't be handicapping to benefit poor performing teams.

Honestly people are too busy trying to work other angles and lose sight of this core principle of engaging competition."
Antrim (and the other weaker counties) won't vote for a system where there is no. ulster championship and no access to the senior all ireland.

No one will vote for your suggestion. It doesn't really matter if it makes sense or not. You'll never get 60% of a Congress to vote for that. Or any other system that doesn't give a back door entry to the championship for the weaker counties

The turkeys will never vote for Christmas

Neither will anyone get 60% of the vote for an open draw amongst 32 counties in 8 groups of 4, nor will you get a junior/intermediate and senior championship.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 881 - 31/10/2021 13:09:41    2387954

Link

Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Antrim (and the other weaker counties) won't vote for a system where there is no. ulster championship and no access to the senior all ireland.

No one will vote for your suggestion. It doesn't really matter if it makes sense or not. You'll never get 60% of a Congress to vote for that. Or any other system that doesn't give a back door entry to the championship for the weaker counties

The turkeys will never vote for Christmas

Neither will anyone get 60% of the vote for an open draw amongst 32 counties in 8 groups of 4, nor will you get a junior/intermediate and senior championship."
I agree. Ulster champions will need a route to All Ireland.
But you cant have a system where Div3 and Div4 teams can progress further than Div 1 teams in a league format. That makes no sense and helped to scupper proposal B in the mid-range counties.

So make the provincials the back door (2 places), let the league decide most of the knockout places, and offer a meaningful 2nd and 3rd grade competition with a cup and promotion for the winners. And remember to include 32 counties...

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 864 - 31/10/2021 15:10:08    2387965

Link

Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Proposal B almost got there so should stay as the basis for the next proposal. It just needs to be tweaked to keep everyone happy.

Problem 1 - relegating provincials to early season
Repair: start league championship round earlier and play in blocks of 2 weeks :Mid Feb start - May finish with provincials played at 1 round per month and May finish also

Problem 2 - no place for provincial champions in all ireland Knick out stage
Fix - expand all ireland knock out stage and guarantee provincial winners a place in it

Problem 3 - six place team in div 1 doesn't reach all ireland knock out stage
Fix - expand all ireland knock out stage to allow them in

The above is simple but needs to ensure that the league matches are competitive. The key is how the knock out stage is refigured:

1. Top 2 in div 1 play off for league title and home draws in all ireland race - i.e - if Mayo win the league they have a home draw in all ireland quarter finals and choice of venue for all ireland semi final (could move a semi v Dublin out of Croke park)

2. Provincial winners play off for two q final spots (if not already qualified from the above)

3. Div 1 3-6 play off for 2q final spot 3rd &4th place team plays at home in playoff)

4. Div 2 winner plays div 4 winner for 1q final spot

5. Div 2 runner up plays div 3 winner for 1 qfinal spot

So based on 2020 league &championship the all ireland q final play offs would have been

Div 1 final -Kerry v Dublin in Killarney - let's say Kerry win that

Div 1 3-6 play offs - Galway V Monaghan in Salthill and Donegal v Tyrone in Ballybofey - Galway and Donegal win

Div 2&4 winners play off - Roscommon v Wicklow in the Hyde - Rossie win

Div 2rup/3winners - Armagh v Cork - Armagh win

Provincial winners playoffs - Mayo, Tipp, Cavan, Dublin - play off between Cavan & Tipp because Dublin already qualified and Mayo finished highest of the other 3 in the league - let's say Cavan beat Tipp

So all ireland Qfinal draw is
Kerry, Dublin, Galway, Donegal, Mayo, Cavan, Roscommon, Armagh

Open draw and only Kerry have home rights - everyone else play on actual Neutral venues except Croke Park semis

If Kerry get to semis they have right to choose a non croke park neutral venue - other semi is in Croke park no matter who it is"
Has to be up there with one of the worst proposals yet. Vote is over, normal service to follow.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1018 - 31/10/2021 17:01:26    2387971

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Has to be up there with one of the worst proposals yet. Vote is over, normal service to follow."
A broken system, great service.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3931 - 31/10/2021 18:02:42    2387981

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "If teams are prevented from drawing one another it's an indication that they shouldn't be playing in the same competition.

For me the priority should be towards having a good quality championship, means it needs to have competitive integrity which means there shouldn't be handicapping to benefit poor performing teams.

Honestly people are too busy trying to work other angles and lose sight of this core principle of engaging competition."
Fair enough. I'm just engineering a way of overcoming financial and demographic imbalances and keeping everyone under one tent (akin to social democracy rather than capitalism). The handicap here is not major - and div 2/3 teams play two from each div, except one from their own. I'm going a bit against the spirit of "playing teams at own level" in that I keep div 1v3 and 2v4 which could be mismatches too - very difficult to square all circles, as you know.

Re: your 18-team Tier 2 - for fixtures, you could have 3 mixed quality groups of 6 (A, B & C) - with A hosting B, B hosting C and C hosting A for neat 12-match schedule.

And for 13-match Tier 1, maybe best to incorporate any pairings already played in Provs (played concurrently Spring through early Summer)

I think 2-tier Prov leagues could improve them - say Ulster top 5, Lein 5, Conn 3 & Muns 3. Lower tier of 4, 6, 3 & 3 - lower top 2 in each to Prov Shield with Champ going up to replace lowest above.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2162 - 31/10/2021 18:51:18    2387994

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "I'd keep a 2 tier system at 16 each. Derry, Cork, Down, and Offaly are in that 12-16 area. Every team plays 8 fixtures which would suit every county."
For those 8 games, you could have Tier 1 with '8 in 1A v 8 in 1B' and Tier 2 with '8 in 2A v 8 in 2B' (and maybe best to have 16-team tables in each Tier in case the 5th team in one group does better than 4th in the other, or 6th better than other 3rd etc).
Something along these lines is what I would like to see - could keep KO Provs too with those results double counting when possible.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2162 - 31/10/2021 19:03:30    2387999

Link

Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Antrim (and the other weaker counties) won't vote for a system where there is no. ulster championship and no access to the senior all ireland.

No one will vote for your suggestion. It doesn't really matter if it makes sense or not. You'll never get 60% of a Congress to vote for that. Or any other system that doesn't give a back door entry to the championship for the weaker counties

The turkeys will never vote for Christmas

Neither will anyone get 60% of the vote for an open draw amongst 32 counties in 8 groups of 4, nor will you get a junior/intermediate and senior championship."
If all counties need a place in the senior championship then there should be a qualifiers system at the start of the season.

Having a tiered system leading back into the same 1 competition is daft and was a big reason why proposal B failed and rightly so.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3640 - 01/11/2021 07:09:20    2388027

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