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Upcoming Special Congress

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Replying To brianb:  "That's quite a good summary of the discussion on here. I think both of those negatives didn't need to be compromised on and I would be skeptical that Proposal B would be "tweaked" after the vote to fix the anomies. Sure over time Divisions 1 & 2 would likely get merged into a 1A and 1B - but the provincials; I'd fear once they've been relegated they'll never come back.

Your last couple of sentences show how we've come to a different conclusion - some of us think of the league as meaningful games in their own right - more of us believe it is still "only the league". I believe the league is a meaningful competition so we're replacing 9 or 10 guaranteed meaningful games for 7. If you're in the "only the league" camp we're replacing a guaranteed 2 or 3 meaningful games for 7."
The league is a well structured competition, it improved a lot when they stopped playing rounds of it pre Christmas (I'm old enough to remember when the league used to start in October). I enjoy going to league games in Spring time. In Meath there has been a huge desire in recent years to get back to playing division 1 regularly. The biggest reason for this is we feel that if we could play in division 1 for any sustained length playing the top teams consistently will improve us as a team which could make us competitive again in the championship. The point I'm trying to make is ultimately it's the championship that gets most focus regarding inter county teams.
I just think that seeing as the championship is what the biggest focus (for players/ supporters/ media) that is where most games at inter county level should be played at. As I said in the earlier post I know some good things may be lost in this new format but in the big picture I think more will be gained than lost.
With the effort that goes in to the inter county game nowadays (compared to years ago) if something along these lines isn't done a time will come when few players will want to make themselves available for county teams outside of a few competitive counties.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 999 - 22/10/2021 11:48:31    2386788

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I'd be okay with a League format if it were limited to Div 1 and 2 sides and Tailteann Cup winners.

Top 4 in Div 1 go into QF. Bottom 4 in Div 1, top 3 in Div 2, and TC winners go into PQF.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 457 - 22/10/2021 11:54:12    2386790

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Replying To Whammo86:  "That's actually quite a smart change.

I don't love the lower division teams getting in but if it has to be that way yours is a better way to do it."
Yeah, it means the winner of Division 2 2nd v 3rd are promoted. If the Division 3 and/or Division 4 winner can beat a Division 1 team, they've earned their place in the quarter-finals despite the quirkyness of the format. A GAA solution for a GAA problem!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6327 - 22/10/2021 12:48:16    2386806

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Mayo have now said no to option b so I'm really losing faith in any change coming about..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 1420 - 22/10/2021 13:06:03    2386808

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "I'd be okay with a League format if it were limited to Div 1 and 2 sides and Tailteann Cup winners.

Top 4 in Div 1 go into QF. Bottom 4 in Div 1, top 3 in Div 2, and TC winners go into PQF."
It's better than what's proposed but still seems weird to me to make being in division 1 kind of risk less.

If the whole point of having a league style championship game is to get sell out crowds for games in the group stage surely there has to be something a bit more at stake.

For me this keeps boiling down to the 4 divisions of 8 set up being a great secondary competition but not fit for purpose as the main competition regardless of the tweaking.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3633 - 22/10/2021 13:16:16    2386813

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Yeah, it means the winner of Division 2 2nd v 3rd are promoted. If the Division 3 and/or Division 4 winner can beat a Division 1 team, they've earned their place in the quarter-finals despite the quirkyness of the format. A GAA solution for a GAA problem!"
I mean it really annoys me. It feels like they're putting stabilisers on competition.

Antrim probably benefits from it but like I care most about sport when there's something big at stake, GAA almost does it's best to remove that for as long as it can.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3633 - 22/10/2021 13:20:40    2386814

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "Mayo have now said no to option b so I'm really losing faith in any change coming about.."
It will be tight! OTB provide good updates on where the voters stand..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxhN9aoxJZ8

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1217 - 22/10/2021 13:28:56    2386817

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "Mayo have now said no to option b so I'm really losing faith in any change coming about.."
By all accounts it will be very close and international votes could be the deciding factor.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3846 - 22/10/2021 13:29:18    2386818

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's better than what's proposed but still seems weird to me to make being in division 1 kind of risk less.

If the whole point of having a league style championship game is to get sell out crowds for games in the group stage surely there has to be something a bit more at stake.

For me this keeps boiling down to the 4 divisions of 8 set up being a great secondary competition but not fit for purpose as the main competition regardless of the tweaking."
1 to 6 from Div 1 in QF. 1 to 3 in Div 2 + Tailteann Cup winners in PQF.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 457 - 22/10/2021 13:36:03    2386820

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Replying To brianb:  "I think what you're getting at there is more to do with the scheduling of the matches rather than the structure of the matches. Yes Proposal B moves more games into warmer, drier months - that's definitely a good thing but if that was the sole aim it could be done by re-arranging the order the games are played in.

We could play provincial preliminary & 1/4 and semi final rounds between league games with the aim of extending the league season into the summer without changing anything about the championship structure. I'm not suggesting this would be the best way forward - I still think the championship needs to change from its current format but the scheduling and the structure can be thought of slightly differently.

I don't think using the league for seeding the All Ireland is a bad idea; but add any unqualified provincial champions into the mix and make the seeding fair."
Its not scheduling when more than half the teams competing consider the secondary competition ( league) more important than the primary blue ribboned competition ( championship) its a sign the structure is wrong.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3846 - 22/10/2021 14:27:00    2386827

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Replying To wexico15:  "Its not scheduling when more than half the teams competing consider the secondary competition ( league) more important than the primary blue ribboned competition ( championship) its a sign the structure is wrong."
I mean you're kind of stating this as a fact and I'm really not sure that it's actually a real assumption.

I've good friends who have played for Antrim in recent years, left now, league is good for knowing where you're at but it's the Ulster championship that they were preparing for.

The qualifiers I think some cared for, others weren't so bothered about. I don't think your perception of things is fair and I'd say the opinion of the season is quite varied from player to player and managers.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3633 - 22/10/2021 15:43:14    2386841

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Replying To wexico15:  "Its not scheduling when more than half the teams competing consider the secondary competition ( league) more important than the primary blue ribboned competition ( championship) its a sign the structure is wrong."
Its a good competition but I don't think anyone considers the league more important. It does allow teams to focus on progress year on year and in some cases promotion is the #1 realistic chance of success.

Lets ask our Cavan and Tipperary friends - would you have preferred to win Munster & Ulster last year and then get relegated to Division 4 or would you have preferred to have been promoted to Division 2?

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 116 - 22/10/2021 15:55:55    2386844

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "The league is a well structured competition, it improved a lot when they stopped playing rounds of it pre Christmas (I'm old enough to remember when the league used to start in October). I enjoy going to league games in Spring time. In Meath there has been a huge desire in recent years to get back to playing division 1 regularly. The biggest reason for this is we feel that if we could play in division 1 for any sustained length playing the top teams consistently will improve us as a team which could make us competitive again in the championship. The point I'm trying to make is ultimately it's the championship that gets most focus regarding inter county teams.
I just think that seeing as the championship is what the biggest focus (for players/ supporters/ media) that is where most games at inter county level should be played at. As I said in the earlier post I know some good things may be lost in this new format but in the big picture I think more will be gained than lost.
With the effort that goes in to the inter county game nowadays (compared to years ago) if something along these lines isn't done a time will come when few players will want to make themselves available for county teams outside of a few competitive counties."
True but as things stand it's unlikely Meath could play in Division 1 and play championship football, yes they'd play in the league and have every chance of being promoted to Division 1 but looking at their record when they were up it's diffcult to see them getting into the top 5 to allow them into the championship.

Meath like four or five other teams around them would be better off playing in a competitive Division 2 with a realistic opportunity of competing in the championship. Play Div 1 and in all likehood they can forget the championship, I don't think this has been discussed enough but counties around Meath's level who want to play Division 1 stand to lose more than they'd gain from Proposal B and over time I think players around that level would get fed up.

It'll suit the very best teams, even the quarter final draw would suit them and teams in Division 3 and 4 who'd have a realistic chance of championship football but those with aspirations to get one of the last few Division 1 places and play at that level have a huge gap to fill to push on into the top 5.

It's why I think struggling in Division 1 will ultimately be of no benefit to counties, they'd be safer dropping down a league.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 852 - 22/10/2021 15:57:21    2386845

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Replying To sam1884:  "True but as things stand it's unlikely Meath could play in Division 1 and play championship football, yes they'd play in the league and have every chance of being promoted to Division 1 but looking at their record when they were up it's diffcult to see them getting into the top 5 to allow them into the championship.

Meath like four or five other teams around them would be better off playing in a competitive Division 2 with a realistic opportunity of competing in the championship. Play Div 1 and in all likehood they can forget the championship, I don't think this has been discussed enough but counties around Meath's level who want to play Division 1 stand to lose more than they'd gain from Proposal B and over time I think players around that level would get fed up.

It'll suit the very best teams, even the quarter final draw would suit them and teams in Division 3 and 4 who'd have a realistic chance of championship football but those with aspirations to get one of the last few Division 1 places and play at that level have a huge gap to fill to push on into the top 5.

It's why I think struggling in Division 1 will ultimately be of no benefit to counties, they'd be safer dropping down a league."
Good post

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3633 - 22/10/2021 16:41:59    2386861

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Replying To sam1884:  "True but as things stand it's unlikely Meath could play in Division 1 and play championship football, yes they'd play in the league and have every chance of being promoted to Division 1 but looking at their record when they were up it's diffcult to see them getting into the top 5 to allow them into the championship.

Meath like four or five other teams around them would be better off playing in a competitive Division 2 with a realistic opportunity of competing in the championship. Play Div 1 and in all likehood they can forget the championship, I don't think this has been discussed enough but counties around Meath's level who want to play Division 1 stand to lose more than they'd gain from Proposal B and over time I think players around that level would get fed up.

It'll suit the very best teams, even the quarter final draw would suit them and teams in Division 3 and 4 who'd have a realistic chance of championship football but those with aspirations to get one of the last few Division 1 places and play at that level have a huge gap to fill to push on into the top 5.

It's why I think struggling in Division 1 will ultimately be of no benefit to counties, they'd be safer dropping down a league."
There is very little between Meath and Kildare in terms of ability at the moment. In order for Kildare to qualify for knockout football in the Sam Maguire next year Kildare will have to finish in fifth place in Division One at worst next year. Meath will have to finish in third place at worst in Division Two next year in order to qualify for knockout football in the Sam Maguire. Who has the better prospects? The teams who will dominate in Divisions Three and Four will be the teams who were relegated to those divisions in the previous season. Since 2013 only once has it happened that at least one team that was relegated from Division Two has failed to be promoted the following season.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5695 - 22/10/2021 16:56:55    2386863

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Does anyone else thing it's odd to hear the Derry Cathaoirleach rubbishing Option B seeing as he was a member of the Task force that proposed it?
Connacht Secretary Prenty similarly.

Others asking for a vote to be postponed so amendments can be made are I feel trying to kill any change. Who will these amendments be made to, who will agree to them and how long will that take?
Probably a ruse by the 4 Provincial Councils??

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 56 - 22/10/2021 17:15:33    2386866

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Surprise surprise, Mayo are against Proposal B. Sure why change things when you can just play a few div 4 teams as a warm up to a Connacht final that, even if you lose, gets you into the latter stages of the All Ireland. With a fairer system the likes of Kerry would still have won titles, and Mayo would get to some finals. However, competing against Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal, and each other, in the early rounds will mean a reality check for them. Hence the reason why Mayo are backing the broken status quo.

sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 544 - 22/10/2021 18:39:07    2386877

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I can see both Plan A and Plan B being rejected, the current shambles rumbling on to a halt in 3/4 more years. Thank god for the club scene, Inter-county football has had its day.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4732 - 22/10/2021 18:52:10    2386878

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "1 to 6 from Div 1 in QF. 1 to 3 in Div 2 + Tailteann Cup winners in PQF."
A fair shout. That could be the future direction. If the Division 3 and Division 4 winners aren't at the level required, guaranteeing the Tailteann Cup winner a Sam Maguire spot in the following year might be the natural evolution. For now, the intention is to give all 32 counties the chance to win the All-Ireland.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6327 - 22/10/2021 19:06:46    2386882

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Does anyone else thing it's odd to hear the Derry Cathaoirleach rubbishing Option B seeing as he was a member of the Task force that proposed it?
Connacht Secretary Prenty similarly.

Others asking for a vote to be postponed so amendments can be made are I feel trying to kill any change. Who will these amendments be made to, who will agree to them and how long will that take?
Probably a ruse by the 4 Provincial Councils??"
It's fairly telling when members of the task force that set up the proposals knows there are too many flaws to vote in favour of them yet proposal B flaws and all may still get voted in. That's a poor start for any new format whereby GAA HQ hope to be a long term option

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 2588 - 22/10/2021 19:08:10    2386883

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