National Forum

Should Unvaccinated Fans Be Allowed Into Croke Park?

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Replying To Viking66:  "I see what way you are thinking Zinny but I dont think we are going to eradicate covid even if we have 100% take up of the vaccines currently available. And if people are forced into taking them, either overtly or by being blackmailed by being told they cant do this or that unless they get the vaccine, it's another step on from nanny stateism to totalitarianism. Brave New World, 1984 and the film V for Vendetta are all entertaining books and movies but paint a stark picture of what way life is heading around the world the last 20 years."
The reality is sometimes people have to be forced to do things for the overall good, I'm not saying it should happen with vaccinations.

We can't live in a society that doesn't have order and leaves everything up to the individual otherwise we will end up back in the dark ages very quickly.

The next menace that needs to be tackled is the freedom social media companies have in spreading total garbage because millions of people are becoming brain dead from it.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 02/09/2021 17:22:10    2377320

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "The reality is sometimes people have to be forced to do things for the overall good, I'm not saying it should happen with vaccinations.

We can't live in a society that doesn't have order and leaves everything up to the individual otherwise we will end up back in the dark ages very quickly.

The next menace that needs to be tackled is the freedom social media companies have in spreading total garbage because millions of people are becoming brain dead from it."
Most of the brain dead are those watching the main broadcasters and listening to wall to wall scare mongering.

Even tonight I heard someone talking about 5,000 people dying from Covid.

5,000 people did NOT just die from Covid. The overwhelming number were elderly people with underlying conditions. In other years their deaths would have been recorded as due to heart, lung, liver, cancer etc. Which they were going to die from anyway.

Amazingly, some of the consistently main causes of death seem to have disappeared.

If people had died from excess deaths caused by Covid then the number of deaths would not have been broadly similar as they have been for years.

A significant number of people have decided to trust to their own natural immunity rather than a vaccine that is clearly not effective in the way it was claimed to be.

As was decided by the Supreme Court of Spain on the basis of available scientific data which makes a nonsense of certification.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 312 - 02/09/2021 18:14:53    2377337

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No discrimination should be implemented on this matter. In Israel people are dying even after receiving their 3rd dose of the "vaccine".
While in Sweden they are living as close to the old normal as possible. There economy is functioning well and their people are contented with daily life.
They followed the protocols for a Pandemic which was used for a lifetime.
So let everyone get back to living with no discriminatory policies forced on any citizen.

UnRepentant (Fermanagh) - Posts: 8 - 02/09/2021 18:20:10    2377338

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No discrimination should be implemented on this matter. In Israel people are dying even after receiving their 3rd dose of the "vaccine".
While in Sweden they are living as close to the old normal as possible. There economy is functioning well and their people are contented with daily life.
They followed the protocols for a Pandemic which was used for a lifetime.
So let everyone get back to living with no discriminatory policies forced on any citizen.

UnRepentant (Fermanagh) - Posts: 8 - 02/09/2021 18:21:03    2377340

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Most of the brain dead are those watching the main broadcasters and listening to wall to wall scare mongering.

Even tonight I heard someone talking about 5,000 people dying from Covid.

5,000 people did NOT just die from Covid. The overwhelming number were elderly people with underlying conditions. In other years their deaths would have been recorded as due to heart, lung, liver, cancer etc. Which they were going to die from anyway.

Amazingly, some of the consistently main causes of death seem to have disappeared.

If people had died from excess deaths caused by Covid then the number of deaths would not have been broadly similar as they have been for years.

A significant number of people have decided to trust to their own natural immunity rather than a vaccine that is clearly not effective in the way it was claimed to be.

As was decided by the Supreme Court of Spain on the basis of available scientific data which makes a nonsense of certification."
Wow, just wow.

sean og (Armagh) - Posts: 1036 - 02/09/2021 19:27:05    2377359

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Replying To sam1884:  "After reading an article in the Irish Independent today it would make any neutral or certainly anyone from Ulster want Tyrone to win the All Ireland. I was shocked at the passive aggressive nature of it. This narrative will suit Tyrone though as they'll arrive in Croke Park with a siege mentality which is dangerous for Mayo."
Don't mind the Indo, a f*ckin' broadsheet tabloid. Worse sub-editors ever.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8277 - 02/09/2021 20:00:34    2377370

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "The reality is sometimes people have to be forced to do things for the overall good, I'm not saying it should happen with vaccinations.

We can't live in a society that doesn't have order and leaves everything up to the individual otherwise we will end up back in the dark ages very quickly.

The next menace that needs to be tackled is the freedom social media companies have in spreading total garbage because millions of people are becoming brain dead from it."
I agree society needs rules. But society wasnt so bad back in the 80s when we had a whole lot less rules and rulemaking bodies, who have to introduce more rules annually to justify their existence and huge salaries. At the end of the day human beings and sheep are both types of mammals. Hopefully the similarity will end there.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3333 - 02/09/2021 20:20:10    2377377

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Replying To zinny:  "Stopping the chain of transmission does not need 100% efficiency what it does need is 100% take-up. The vaccine does stop you from getting covid, no-one said it was 100% effective at stopping everyone who get it from getting covid. When will people stop this narrative. Nothing will stop you from taking the virus into your body but the antibodies destroy it. So if you want to be technical about it Nothing bar not breathing will stop the virus from getting into your body however that is different from getting covid. That is the way they all work. So please stop this nonsense about this as its a misrepresentation of the facts.
Believe me you can be as careful as you want but non of what you are doing will make any difference if the rest of the population are not vaccinated."
Ok this will turn into a around-about debate between us so I leave it after this, these covid vaccines help create anti-bodys to fight covid-19, their effectiveness statistics have reduced significantly since they have being first administered to the public. Vaccines can help to reduce the chance of infection and transmission but they dont stop infection and transmission. Vaccines are a tool to help fight covid-19 and reduce the chance of hospitalization but they are still very much experimental and as others have said fully vaccinated people have gotten covid-19 and transmitted it to others. I have already stated my opinions on the side-effects and the chance of other potential side-effects of the vaccines. Also a friend of mine who is a medical scientist who works in research and is educated to PHD level tried to research the animal testing results of the covid-19 vaccines and couldn't find any, why? because there is none, and animal testing is a critical part of vaccine development for safety and efficacy.

As your last sentence about being careful as I want, All I or anyone can do is their best wether if they are vaccinated or those who choice not to get vaccinated for any reason, I have had to work in a large manufacturing facility during the pandemic and a sizeable amount of people contracted covid-19 there and I managed not to or I did and didn't know, if I do get it what can I do only do what my doctor tells me and I'm not being smart saying that. As I said before I won't be forced or bullied into taking something I'm not comfortable with.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 1038 - 02/09/2021 20:24:06    2377380

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "The reality is sometimes people have to be forced to do things for the overall good, I'm not saying it should happen with vaccinations.

We can't live in a society that doesn't have order and leaves everything up to the individual otherwise we will end up back in the dark ages very quickly.

The next menace that needs to be tackled is the freedom social media companies have in spreading total garbage because millions of people are becoming brain dead from it."
I agree. Now in the U.S. the conservative extremist are advocating a civil war based on what they see as the success of the Taliban. Conversations of their plans have been picked up by intelligence. What is really scary is non radical people are getting sucked into believing their rights are being infringed on. These extremist are using people like they always have done. When the achieve what they want they will turn on these same people. Democracy is just about dead.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1644 - 02/09/2021 20:26:43    2377382

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Replying To UnRepentant:  "No discrimination should be implemented on this matter. In Israel people are dying even after receiving their 3rd dose of the "vaccine".
While in Sweden they are living as close to the old normal as possible. There economy is functioning well and their people are contented with daily life.
They followed the protocols for a Pandemic which was used for a lifetime.
So let everyone get back to living with no discriminatory policies forced on any citizen."
Another one.

sean og (Armagh) - Posts: 1036 - 02/09/2021 20:32:43    2377387

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UNCLEAN, UNCLEAN! :D

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8277 - 02/09/2021 21:54:45    2377407

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "Ok this will turn into a around-about debate between us so I leave it after this, these covid vaccines help create anti-bodys to fight covid-19, their effectiveness statistics have reduced significantly since they have being first administered to the public. Vaccines can help to reduce the chance of infection and transmission but they dont stop infection and transmission. Vaccines are a tool to help fight covid-19 and reduce the chance of hospitalization but they are still very much experimental and as others have said fully vaccinated people have gotten covid-19 and transmitted it to others. I have already stated my opinions on the side-effects and the chance of other potential side-effects of the vaccines. Also a friend of mine who is a medical scientist who works in research and is educated to PHD level tried to research the animal testing results of the covid-19 vaccines and couldn't find any, why? because there is none, and animal testing is a critical part of vaccine development for safety and efficacy.

As your last sentence about being careful as I want, All I or anyone can do is their best wether if they are vaccinated or those who choice not to get vaccinated for any reason, I have had to work in a large manufacturing facility during the pandemic and a sizeable amount of people contracted covid-19 there and I managed not to or I did and didn't know, if I do get it what can I do only do what my doctor tells me and I'm not being smart saying that. As I said before I won't be forced or bullied into taking something I'm not comfortable with."
I have a brother in law who thinks in the same manner as yourself and all the tripe he comes out with is about taking information to suit his own argument. I believe your own understanding of the virus was well understood when you said you spent hundreds of euro on vitamin pills. I can't say I would hope to ever meet you in Croke Park

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1310 - 03/09/2021 20:17:18    2377650

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Replying To zinny:  "I have a brother in law who thinks in the same manner as yourself and all the tripe he comes out with is about taking information to suit his own argument. I believe your own understanding of the virus was well understood when you said you spent hundreds of euro on vitamin pills. I can't say I would hope to ever meet you in Croke Park"
Lad there is no need to get personal now. Most medical professions have recommended taking vitamin D and Zinc to help prevent and combat covid-19, so that's just a desperate attempt to discredit me. I'll admit I'm no professional but I have gotten professional advice and I did my own little research for myself.

Don't worry you won't be meeting me in Croke Park by the time Limerick come out of Munster at the all-Ireland semi-final stage Wexford are usually knocked out by then ;).

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 1038 - 04/09/2021 00:31:31    2377693

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Replying To zinny:  "I have a brother in law who thinks in the same manner as yourself and all the tripe he comes out with is about taking information to suit his own argument. I believe your own understanding of the virus was well understood when you said you spent hundreds of euro on vitamin pills. I can't say I would hope to ever meet you in Croke Park"
I often find listening to vaccine enthusiasts that on the one hand they accuse anti vaxxers of only listening to the info that suits them but on the other hand immediately dismiss any info that claims that this vaccine isn't the silver bullet they'd hoped it was.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 04/09/2021 13:25:46    2377742

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I often find listening to vaccine enthusiasts that on the one hand they accuse anti vaxxers of only listening to the info that suits them but on the other hand immediately dismiss any info that claims that this vaccine isn't the silver bullet they'd hoped it was."
The vaccine was produced to offer protection against Covid-19, no one ever said it would offer the same protection against mutants which didn't exist at the time and the people who opted out of getting vaccinated are a driving force behind the emergence of variants, breeding factories they have been described as.

So who is to blame there ?

The people who done their best to protect themselves and others against Covid-19 or the breeding factories who helped create variants ?

The jury wouldn't be out too long.

When the anti-vax brigade try to convince the world that the vaccines contain a tracking device, then is it any wonder they are called nut jobs.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 04/09/2021 14:03:56    2377746

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "The vaccine was produced to offer protection against Covid-19, no one ever said it would offer the same protection against mutants which didn't exist at the time and the people who opted out of getting vaccinated are a driving force behind the emergence of variants, breeding factories they have been described as.

So who is to blame there ?

The people who done their best to protect themselves and others against Covid-19 or the breeding factories who helped create variants ?

The jury wouldn't be out too long.

When the anti-vax brigade try to convince the world that the vaccines contain a tracking device, then is it any wonder they are called nut jobs."
I know a fair few anti vaxxers and not one of them, not a single one, believe that the vaccine contains a tracking device.
Variants were developing before the vaccine had been distributed.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 04/09/2021 14:27:39    2377752

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The Delta variant was first discovered in India in December. How in the name of all that is pure and holy you're blaming irish anti vaxxers for not taking the jab the following September for its coming into being is anyones guess.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 04/09/2021 14:32:01    2377753

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "The vaccine was produced to offer protection against Covid-19, no one ever said it would offer the same protection against mutants which didn't exist at the time and the people who opted out of getting vaccinated are a driving force behind the emergence of variants, breeding factories they have been described as.

So who is to blame there ?

The people who done their best to protect themselves and others against Covid-19 or the breeding factories who helped create variants ?

The jury wouldn't be out too long.

When the anti-vax brigade try to convince the world that the vaccines contain a tracking device, then is it any wonder they are called nut jobs."
African Gael, I usually ignore your posts. Your knowledge of matters Gaelic is scant, infantile, abysmal even.

However, I'd agree with you as regards the anti-vaxxers. You seem very well versed on that situ. A lot of that crowd are anti-everything. Don't let 'em bother you, please.

Just sit back now, relax, and enjoy the final. I well intend to,

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 747 - 04/09/2021 14:56:04    2377759

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Tracking devices??? Bahaha :D

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8277 - 04/09/2021 15:16:28    2377764

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Replying To Galway9801:  "The Delta variant was first discovered in India in December. How in the name of all that is pure and holy you're blaming irish anti vaxxers for not taking the jab the following September for its coming into being is anyones guess."
Spot on. You may as well be throwing stones at your jacket as trying to explain that to some people though.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 6284 - 04/09/2021 15:41:54    2377776

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