National Forum

Should Unvaccinated Fans Be Allowed Into Croke Park?

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Replying To Peadarw:  "calling people who arent vaccinated nut jobs is a bit out of order ...the fact remains that the vaccines were put together quickly and therfore havent undergone the same stringent clinical trials as other vaccines some people just may want to wait and see for a little longer
instead of being labelling people nut jobs just respect their choice ...not saying we should get in everywhere and everything else but we should at least be free to choose for ourselves"
A considerable section of anti vax are nut jobs and they are very vocal. Some of the abuse and people they target who have lost loved ones is sick. Fact is there is a considerable number of people out there who will just go against the status quo….

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10820 - 26/08/2021 23:35:06    2375119

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The misinformation from day 1 has been mind boggling. The vaccines are not 100 per cent effective in all cases and over time they will be tweaked and improved to deal with different variants but the whole point is they stop severe illness and hospital ICU admissions for the most part. That is the point. And by the way the majority of people who argue against vaccines are usually nutjobs who can't hold a strong argument and are usually misinformed. Let's call a spade a spade.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7297 - 27/08/2021 08:06:20    2375137

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Replying To joeteor:  "Somebody getting vaccinated doesn't protect people around them, because you can still catch and spread it just as before. Not that I want to derail the thread and I'm not anti vaccination, I have my double jab. Some of it doesn't make sense to me is all, seems like vaccines are being incorrectly associated with the stop of spread."
Vaccines are part of lowering the risk. If you are vaccinated you less likely to have pronounced symptoms which may lead you to spread it easier. There should also be proper distancing, at the ulster final people moved seats and clustered close to others. During the game, fans I didn't travel with moved and sat directly beside me and in front (from Monaghan and Tyrone). People didn't wear masks (to be honest I didn't either) but the daftest part was lads using the loo and then walking out without washing hands. Ludicrous behaviour irrespective of the pandemic but how are people still not getting the wash hands and sanitise. Its just poor hygiene and inexcusable.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 217 - 27/08/2021 11:06:39    2375178

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Social distancing, wear a mask, regular hand washing, limit social contacts etc. Doing those things seems to have stopped the regular flu and colds outbreaks it seems or at least has severely curtailed them."
Do you genuinely think people are socially distancing, wearing masks and washing their hands regularly in packed pubs and restaurants the length and breadth of the country????

The answer is a resounding NO!!! They're not!!

But this is the reason given for why the flu has suddenly stopped, vanished off the face of the earth almost!!

So what's going on? Where has the flu gone???

And just to note I'm not anti vax or anything like it. I've got multiple vaccinations over the years including many flu vacc's.... But a lot of stuff just doesnt add up for me

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1992 - 27/08/2021 12:00:30    2375189

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No, no one that is not vaccinated should be allowed in, like wise, people blatantly casting the mask rule aside when they get in should be put out of the stadium, you will only have to put out a few before everyone else cops on....we are locked down more or less still with restrictions and to see the majority of people whom probably consider themselves intelligent (and Offaly was as bad in Tullamore the night of the U21 win) is two fingers to the rest of us...numbers flying at a high rate, and these crew at matches dont give a flyin fck about anyone only themselves..sorry I was not going to get in on this debate but its been smoothed over by the GAA and they know full well the behavaiour of the majority of fans in Croke Park at the hurling final was not on...the are insulting our intelligence then with "oh its written on the ticket" and its announced around the ground to keep your mask on"...fair enough, but if people decidde not to follow those guidelnes, start at the front and by the time 9 or 10 are put out the rest will have their masks on....getting the tickets for the final (some people seem to be so lucky in getting same) is not a free Covid trip away or anything....If the GAA cant control its crowds, back to last year and no crowds...this Covid has gone on long enough and people need to cop on or we will be here again this time next year..

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 866 - 27/08/2021 16:06:13    2375250

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "The misinformation from day 1 has been mind boggling. The vaccines are not 100 per cent effective in all cases and over time they will be tweaked and improved to deal with different variants but the whole point is they stop severe illness and hospital ICU admissions for the most part. That is the point. And by the way the majority of people who argue against vaccines are usually nutjobs who can't hold a strong argument and are usually misinformed. Let's call a spade a spade."
yeah i do get that there are some extreme people out there ..on both sides ( ive seen some people post that people should be held down and vacinnated against their will ) for me it hasnt been out long enough and i dont feel like i know enough about potential long term effects due to it being rushed out thats my own personal opinion and choice ...ive been working in england throughout the pandemic and in red zones etc and i am either extremely unlucky or ive had it and had very mild symptoms ...at the start it was said young people need not worry ..im 27 so gonna trust my immune system for now to see how vaccines develop

Peadarw (Donegal) - Posts: 15 - 27/08/2021 20:27:26    2375298

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Replying To Peadarw:  "yeah i do get that there are some extreme people out there ..on both sides ( ive seen some people post that people should be held down and vacinnated against their will ) for me it hasnt been out long enough and i dont feel like i know enough about potential long term effects due to it being rushed out thats my own personal opinion and choice ...ive been working in england throughout the pandemic and in red zones etc and i am either extremely unlucky or ive had it and had very mild symptoms ...at the start it was said young people need not worry ..im 27 so gonna trust my immune system for now to see how vaccines develop"
Rushed? Yes. But every single scientist in that area has been solely focused on this alone for 18 months. And they are still working on it. I am fit, healthy, train 5 days a week and in my 30s but it isn't about me, it's about those who could be severely compromised if I unwillingly pass it on. So you talking about trusting your immune system is a weak argument to be honest.

You are entitled to your opinion but I am genuinely baffled at people who still think all the doctors we know personally would push something unsafe on people they know.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7297 - 27/08/2021 21:14:15    2375306

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Unvaccinated people should be allowed into Croke park. We can't go on as a country with a 2 tier system of privileges. There will be people unable to take the vaccine or afraid to take it due to their previous reaction to it. They should not be discriminated against.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3809 - 27/08/2021 21:40:24    2375317

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Replying To joeteor:  "Vaccination doesn't stop spread, so what's the reasoning for not letting unvaccinated attend?"
It stops the hospitals filling up and allows people with cancer and other ailments to get proper treatment-are you not aware of that fact.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2280 - 27/08/2021 23:19:37    2375343

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I do laugh at all this talk of " mthis vaccine is not tested etc." This vaccine is around over 30 years, and is tweaked every few year to suit the strains that come out (yes this virus is more serious and contagious than previous years similar type virus)..this vaccine was tweaked another but by leading scientists and eminulogists, some make it sound as if they all sat around a pot in April 2020 and started from scratch or something..if your that afraid to take the vaccine that's your choice but you can't be expecting to be treated the same as those who have been vaccinated, after all if you get the virus you will be much sicker than those who are vaccinated in the rare event vaccinated people get the vaccine...this ould scare mongering about not trusting the vaccine is being over done..if you dont want it fine, but you are limiting your social options as you cant have it both ways...and yes some people have had bad side effects and some have died from the vaccine, but not as many as died from the virus, so not getting into further debate on the matter here, for the record ide say a tiny few are genuinely anxious about the vaccine, the majority are acting the boll*x and I know that from having spoken to some of them, they are opposed to it for the sake of being different...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 866 - 28/08/2021 00:27:02    2375347

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "Do you genuinely think people are socially distancing, wearing masks and washing their hands regularly in packed pubs and restaurants the length and breadth of the country????

The answer is a resounding NO!!! They're not!!

But this is the reason given for why the flu has suddenly stopped, vanished off the face of the earth almost!!

So what's going on? Where has the flu gone???

And just to note I'm not anti vax or anything like it. I've got multiple vaccinations over the years including many flu vacc's.... But a lot of stuff just doesnt add up for me"
Flu is not neccessarily gone. I had 2 doses of sonething last year but had no antibodies for covid when tested subsequently. On the 1st weekend the walkin covid test centre was open in Waterford it was reported they conducted over 600 tests with not 1 person positive for covid. So obviously all these people had something else. Like you I'm not anti vax having had numerous different injections and ensuring all the kids got all of theirs. I'm wary of the covid vaccines on 3 grounds. Efficacy firstly. They are now saying these vaccines will need to be taken regularly after studies both here and abroad especially Israel. So just how effective are they? And secondly noone has any idea what the longterm effects are. Thirdly is the side effects. Numerous people I know got very sick after their first or second jab or both. More sick than most people I know who got covid. Obviously I'd probably have a different outlook if I was in my 60s or 70s but I'm still being as careful as possible with social distancing and mask wearing indoors but have been to numerous outdoor social settings at this stage.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3333 - 28/08/2021 06:53:40    2375355

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Rushed? Yes. But every single scientist in that area has been solely focused on this alone for 18 months. And they are still working on it. I am fit, healthy, train 5 days a week and in my 30s but it isn't about me, it's about those who could be severely compromised if I unwillingly pass it on. So you talking about trusting your immune system is a weak argument to be honest.

You are entitled to your opinion but I am genuinely baffled at people who still think all the doctors we know personally would push something unsafe on people they know."
Some recently immunised people have suffered unusual clots, including a type in the brain called cerebral sinus vein thrombosis (CSVT).

This is not proof that the vaccine is to blame. Covid infection itself can also make clots more likely and they can occur naturally too.

Experts stress the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks for the vast majority of people, but is more finely balanced for younger adults

copied and pasted from bbc we can only make informed decisions based on the information we are given
now id be an unlucky sort who would be in the small margin here hence i dont want to take it since it is and i quote "finely balanced for young adults "

fyi this was on astra zeneca ill be going pfizer if i take it

Peadarw (Donegal) - Posts: 15 - 28/08/2021 07:47:46    2375357

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Replying To Peadarw:  "Some recently immunised people have suffered unusual clots, including a type in the brain called cerebral sinus vein thrombosis (CSVT).

This is not proof that the vaccine is to blame. Covid infection itself can also make clots more likely and they can occur naturally too.

Experts stress the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks for the vast majority of people, but is more finely balanced for younger adults

copied and pasted from bbc we can only make informed decisions based on the information we are given
now id be an unlucky sort who would be in the small margin here hence i dont want to take it since it is and i quote "finely balanced for young adults "

fyi this was on astra zeneca ill be going pfizer if i take it"
These unusual clots etc? How many of these conditions have increased in the past 12 months? Probably no increase overall. What's different is the vast majority of the world including Ireland has been vaccinated so anyone who has had these conditions also happen to have been vaccinated. There is no clear link, it's merely a coincidence for the most part. There is always a small risk with all vaccines. The vast majority of extreme cases posted by anti vaxxers are not real. Do you know anyone in your own community that became seriously sick? That is what I would use as a yardstick.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7297 - 28/08/2021 10:31:47    2375369

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There has always been a section of society who have been ''anti vaxxers'' long before covid19 ever existed. I've always thought these people were mad tbh. Especially given the fact that vaccines are proven to have basically wiped out diseases, e.g. Polio, to name just one.

The problem is anyone like myself who has genuine concerns about these vaccines are lumped in with this group.

And as a young fit healthy man having first hand witnessed the negative effects its had on some people i know I am absolutely entitled to have concerns.

If that gets people worked up and outraged well then imo you are just as bad as the ''anti vax'' crowd you cant stand

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1992 - 28/08/2021 11:10:56    2375376

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "I do laugh at all this talk of " mthis vaccine is not tested etc." This vaccine is around over 30 years, and is tweaked every few year to suit the strains that come out (yes this virus is more serious and contagious than previous years similar type virus)..this vaccine was tweaked another but by leading scientists and eminulogists, some make it sound as if they all sat around a pot in April 2020 and started from scratch or something..if your that afraid to take the vaccine that's your choice but you can't be expecting to be treated the same as those who have been vaccinated, after all if you get the virus you will be much sicker than those who are vaccinated in the rare event vaccinated people get the vaccine...this ould scare mongering about not trusting the vaccine is being over done..if you dont want it fine, but you are limiting your social options as you cant have it both ways...and yes some people have had bad side effects and some have died from the vaccine, but not as many as died from the virus, so not getting into further debate on the matter here, for the record ide say a tiny few are genuinely anxious about the vaccine, the majority are acting the boll*x and I know that from having spoken to some of them, they are opposed to it for the sake of being different..."
If its only been tweaked slightly then why are do so many people fall ill after taking it?
A girl in work took two days off after her 2nd jab and when she came back could still barely walk, her right leg had gone dead.
I'm sure you've heard similar cases, albeit the after effects are usually only temporary.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 28/08/2021 11:45:18    2375380

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "There has always been a section of society who have been ''anti vaxxers'' long before covid19 ever existed. I've always thought these people were mad tbh. Especially given the fact that vaccines are proven to have basically wiped out diseases, e.g. Polio, to name just one.

The problem is anyone like myself who has genuine concerns about these vaccines are lumped in with this group.

And as a young fit healthy man having first hand witnessed the negative effects its had on some people i know I am absolutely entitled to have concerns.

If that gets people worked up and outraged well then imo you are just as bad as the ''anti vax'' crowd you cant stand"
I don't get heated I do like to discuss things if people are reasonable but the explanation from most people who are concerned never stacks up. I had the AztraZeneca early because I travel a lot with work and was able to get it early. After the first jab I had a horrific headache all that night and was exhausted the next day all day. I had zero reaction after second dose. Can you tell me about the negative effects it has had on some people you know?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7297 - 28/08/2021 12:05:16    2375386

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Well TheFlaker my gf's uncle died 2 weeks after getting it. Now I'm not saying the vaccination killed him. He was a man in bad health. But the after effects of the vaccine (in bed for a week before ambulance had to be called) certainly sped up the process. That i am 100% sure.

2 of the my mates ended up in bed for a week. One lad from work too.

2 girls i know stopped getting their period (prob TMI, sorry).

Now having said all that, as i have said before I have my concerns but have certainly not ruled out getting it.

Tbh I'm still leaning toward getting it, and probably will down the line. But this is more to do with a responsibility i feel i have towards my pregnant GF. She's also very hesitant about getting it by the way.

So ill say it again, I am completely within my rights to have concerns. And even though ill probably get it I fully support anyone's choice not to get it.

What was that saying... ''My Body My Choice'' ...well that doesnt seem to apply anymore aye

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1992 - 28/08/2021 12:27:56    2375390

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "These unusual clots etc? How many of these conditions have increased in the past 12 months? Probably no increase overall. What's different is the vast majority of the world including Ireland has been vaccinated so anyone who has had these conditions also happen to have been vaccinated. There is no clear link, it's merely a coincidence for the most part. There is always a small risk with all vaccines. The vast majority of extreme cases posted by anti vaxxers are not real. Do you know anyone in your own community that became seriously sick? That is what I would use as a yardstick."
i dont granted know anybody who has been really sick but i wont dismiss the possibility ...i also dont know anybody who really had bad covid but im not questioning if covid is real ...i know it is half my familly have got vaccinated and thankfully no ill effects ..i respect the fact that the chose to do it just as they respect my choice not to rush into it

Peadarw (Donegal) - Posts: 15 - 28/08/2021 12:48:58    2375397

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "Well TheFlaker my gf's uncle died 2 weeks after getting it. Now I'm not saying the vaccination killed him. He was a man in bad health. But the after effects of the vaccine (in bed for a week before ambulance had to be called) certainly sped up the process. That i am 100% sure.

2 of the my mates ended up in bed for a week. One lad from work too.

2 girls i know stopped getting their period (prob TMI, sorry).

Now having said all that, as i have said before I have my concerns but have certainly not ruled out getting it.

Tbh I'm still leaning toward getting it, and probably will down the line. But this is more to do with a responsibility i feel i have towards my pregnant GF. She's also very hesitant about getting it by the way.

So ill say it again, I am completely within my rights to have concerns. And even though ill probably get it I fully support anyone's choice not to get it.

What was that saying... ''My Body My Choice'' ...well that doesnt seem to apply anymore aye"
But everybody HAS a choice. .

If you want to go to some east African countries on holiday, you need the yellow fever vaccine or the won't let you in.

Don't want to get it, then don't go there.

That isn't discrimination, coercion or force. Everybody still has a choice.



Some people don't have a choice tho. .

Some people who got the vaccine will not benefit from having gotten it as is has simply not triggered the same immune response as it has for the vast majority.

These people are still very vulnerable. To protect these people, the ones who through no fault of their own or of the government, WHO, etc are likely to have serious and even fatal consequences to catching COVID, I and the vast majority of the population have chosen to get a vaccine that we in all likelihood didn't need to get to protect ourselves.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4555 - 28/08/2021 13:04:14    2375402

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I know a few staunch "anti vaxxers", like literally they told me they'd quit our job if they were forced to take it (I'm a postman so it may become mandatory), but they've no problems with the mmr jabs, bcg etc, they just don't feel comfortable with what's happening here.

I think there's a fundamental breakdown of trust between ordinary people, particularly the working classes, and their leaders and the media,,these people, rightly, feel misrepresented and scorned by the above.
This could be contributing to the problem.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 28/08/2021 13:19:30    2375403

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