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Galway Underage Hurling

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Its very, very strange. Winning minor All Irelands in a canter and losing out three years later at under 20. Why is the progress not maintained? Are they winning things too early. I don't think that any of the great Limerick team of the moment has a minor medal in his back pocket.

Marooning (Westmeath) - Posts: 24 - 19/08/2021 14:14:42    2373073

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Replying To Marooning:  "Its very, very strange. Winning minor All Irelands in a canter and losing out three years later at under 20. Why is the progress not maintained? Are they winning things too early. I don't think that any of the great Limerick team of the moment has a minor medal in his back pocket."
Was thinking the same last night, Galway won 5 minors in 6 years but no u21 or u20 since 2011, the Clare 3 in a row u21 2012-14 didn't win a minor all ireland similarly the 2 recent Cork u20 teams.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 19/08/2021 15:41:02    2373112

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Replying To Marooning:  "Its very, very strange. Winning minor All Irelands in a canter and losing out three years later at under 20. Why is the progress not maintained? Are they winning things too early. I don't think that any of the great Limerick team of the moment has a minor medal in his back pocket."
Theres no doubt our U20's underperformed last night. They are better than that. Only those closest to the team would have the answers. I have a theory myself which might be far off so I'm not going to speculate.

But as I said on a previous thread, winning minor All Irelands is a stand alone achievement. It has zero connection to future success. It shows that at a particular point in time the quality is there but that's all. The one thing that characterises minor hurling is its unpredictability. Games can fluctuate wildly. How often times do you watch a minor game and see a team that loses by say 10 points that really could have won by 10 points had a few small things gone in their favour? I've seen it many times and that fluctuation in fortunes has become even more pronounced since minor became under 17. Even as recently as last week, had Kilkenny not hit so many wides and had they built a lead when they were in control for the first 10 or 15 minutes, they may well have gone on to win their semi final handsomely instead of been well beaten by Galway in the end. It is foolish to build up hopes based on minor success.
But to answer your question " Are they winning too early?" The answer is NO imo. It is better to be winning minor All Irelands than losing them and we will keep on winning them while we can while knowing that it's at under 20 level success needs to be achieved to give the county the best possibility of enjoying future success at senior.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1904 - 19/08/2021 15:59:52    2373117

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "Theres no doubt our U20's underperformed last night. They are better than that. Only those closest to the team would have the answers. I have a theory myself which might be far off so I'm not going to speculate.

But as I said on a previous thread, winning minor All Irelands is a stand alone achievement. It has zero connection to future success. It shows that at a particular point in time the quality is there but that's all. The one thing that characterises minor hurling is its unpredictability. Games can fluctuate wildly. How often times do you watch a minor game and see a team that loses by say 10 points that really could have won by 10 points had a few small things gone in their favour? I've seen it many times and that fluctuation in fortunes has become even more pronounced since minor became under 17. Even as recently as last week, had Kilkenny not hit so many wides and had they built a lead when they were in control for the first 10 or 15 minutes, they may well have gone on to win their semi final handsomely instead of been well beaten by Galway in the end. It is foolish to build up hopes based on minor success.
But to answer your question " Are they winning too early?" The answer is NO imo. It is better to be winning minor All Irelands than losing them and we will keep on winning them while we can while knowing that it's at under 20 level success needs to be achieved to give the county the best possibility of enjoying future success at senior."
Some very good points there. Winning a minor is a snapshot in time. In those few months at that time Galway have been Minor champs many times but its not a long term (Senior )predictor, not even a short term predictor (U20). We obviously have the raw materials at that age judging by the u17 wins but we are falling down badly at the next 2 levels. Similarly, managerial success at minor level, coaching kids , is not a guarantee that a manager will be able to do the same with young men and Seniors. Successful minor managers are good with minors. Cork should have been 15/16 points up last night at halftime such was the gulf. Really was men against boys.

conordee (Galway) - Posts: 440 - 19/08/2021 17:17:41    2373148

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Agree. Winning underage titles is a nice bonus but it's no guarantee of senior success. A lot happens from minor to senior and many lads drift away for various reasons. It's about scouting and nurturing the ones that can make it and brining them through. It's all about developing players for senior.

Not only skill is looked at at but is he made of the right stuff...mentally and physically? Being an inter county footballer now days is a lifestyle with no guarantee of success where you will miss out in many life and social events. The reward though is there.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 19/08/2021 17:44:38    2373154

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Replying To Marooning:  "Its very, very strange. Winning minor All Irelands in a canter and losing out three years later at under 20. Why is the progress not maintained? Are they winning things too early. I don't think that any of the great Limerick team of the moment has a minor medal in his back pocket."
You are correct, Limerick have not won a Minor since 84, reached the Final in 14 and 16. Some of our star performers have come from those teams, Cian Lynch and Kyle Hayes to name a couple.
My own view is if every Minor and Under 20 team and contribute 2/3 players each year to the senior panel down the line the correct job is being done.
Saying that would love to see a Limerick team win a minor All Ireland.

Southsham (Limerick) - Posts: 738 - 19/08/2021 18:10:25    2373163

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winning minors as galway have been doing is a help but not the be all and end all.....limerick had a few great minor teams between 2013 and 16 but never won an allireland but out of those teams sean finn, mike casey, richie english, kyle hayes , cian lynch , darragh o donovan , tom morrissey, aaron gillane , seamus flanagan and peter casey are going for their 3rd senior all ireland.

munsterchamps (Limerick) - Posts: 1099 - 19/08/2021 19:03:37    2373180

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Replying To Marooning:  "Its very, very strange. Winning minor All Irelands in a canter and losing out three years later at under 20. Why is the progress not maintained? Are they winning things too early. I don't think that any of the great Limerick team of the moment has a minor medal in his back pocket."
If they haven't, they wont win one now, I'd say.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3448 - 19/08/2021 19:52:57    2373189

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Replying To Southsham:  "You are correct, Limerick have not won a Minor since 84, reached the Final in 14 and 16. Some of our star performers have come from those teams, Cian Lynch and Kyle Hayes to name a couple.
My own view is if every Minor and Under 20 team and contribute 2/3 players each year to the senior panel down the line the correct job is being done.
Saying that would love to see a Limerick team win a minor All Ireland."
Your spot on there, a good trickle of players consistently is going to stand to a senior team far more. I suppose that's the dream for most inter county managers, rather than one golden generation that fades away.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1913 - 19/08/2021 20:49:05    2373199

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Kerry won 5 Minor Football Finals in a row 2014-2018 and never won or featured in a u21/20 Final with those players.
Now those "Minors" have become currently the best Footballers on their Senior Team who will become the New dominant force in Football.

katser (Galway) - Posts: 2210 - 19/08/2021 22:10:16    2373219

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Replying To katser:  "Kerry won 5 Minor Football Finals in a row 2014-2018 and never won or featured in a u21/20 Final with those players.
Now those "Minors" have become currently the best Footballers on their Senior Team who will become the New dominant force in Football."
I was going to say something similar. However, the best players from those teams were not allowed to play u20 as they were playing senior, so not quite the same situation.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 311 - 19/08/2021 22:18:43    2373221

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Replying To katser:  "Kerry won 5 Minor Football Finals in a row 2014-2018 and never won or featured in a u21/20 Final with those players.
Now those "Minors" have become currently the best Footballers on their Senior Team who will become the New dominant force in Football."
Unlike the hurlers, this is why Galway footballers will never make it back to the top in the modern era.
Fans are something else.

Imagine talking up another county and predicting/backing them to take over , instead of knuckling down and focusing on his own team ,supporting them to get to that required level to compete.

Guess taking pot-shots at Mayo will have to do for another decade, which will round it up to 30 years of being non competitive and totally irrelevant at the business end of tournaments.

Even the media aren't attracted to them anymore, with the hurlers keeping the flag flying.

BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 383 - 19/08/2021 23:15:44    2373228

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I suppose it has to do with coaching and the schools too as far as the Minors go. Maybe same coaches should coach U20s.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2127 - 20/08/2021 00:07:20    2373234

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Replying To Marooning:  "Its very, very strange. Winning minor All Irelands in a canter and losing out three years later at under 20. Why is the progress not maintained? Are they winning things too early. I don't think that any of the great Limerick team of the moment has a minor medal in his back pocket."
Kerry won 5 All Ireland minor titles in a row between 2014 and 2018. How many U20 titles did that turn into? Who are favourites for this year's senior football championship?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 20/08/2021 01:17:18    2373238

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Offaly actually blocked u20s from playing senior the last few years

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 251 - 20/08/2021 10:40:48    2373273

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Minor wins are nice but are no indication of future success. The Kilkenny team of '05, had 2 players with Minor Medals. They happened to be the oldest player, DJ and the youngest player, Cha Fitzpatrick. It was never an indicator but dropping the age down to U-17 makes it more unpredictable. I don't think it is good for the players or the game to have 16 year olds playing under that spotlight.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 20/08/2021 11:11:41    2373285

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Replying To gatha:  "Minor wins are nice but are no indication of future success. The Kilkenny team of '05, had 2 players with Minor Medals. They happened to be the oldest player, DJ and the youngest player, Cha Fitzpatrick. It was never an indicator but dropping the age down to U-17 makes it more unpredictable. I don't think it is good for the players or the game to have 16 year olds playing under that spotlight."
Loads of quality senior intercounty players have won Minor medals, so to say 'it was never an indicator' would be flat out false surely, and a somewhat ridiculous sweeping statement.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3448 - 20/08/2021 11:33:41    2373293

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Replying To BeJasus:  "Unlike the hurlers, this is why Galway footballers will never make it back to the top in the modern era.
Fans are something else.

Imagine talking up another county and predicting/backing them to take over , instead of knuckling down and focusing on his own team ,supporting them to get to that required level to compete.

Guess taking pot-shots at Mayo will have to do for another decade, which will round it up to 30 years of being non competitive and totally irrelevant at the business end of tournaments.

Even the media aren't attracted to them anymore, with the hurlers keeping the flag flying."
wow, very bitter person there. Hope Mayo win Sam, excellent team

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1670 - 20/08/2021 11:45:02    2373296

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I have a small knowledge of club hurling in Galway but a Galway poster would be better equipped to answer this - a lot of minor winning players don't even seem to shine at senior club level in Galway or am i wide of the mark there?
If Galway were to go into Leinster they would almost certainly win less at minor but perhaps it would stand to them. The current system is a joke and in unfair on both Galway and everyone else.
Galway are seriously hindered at u20 by not getting games too. That Cork team was doubly championship fit this year! You can't beat games and Galway are on a hiding to nothing coming in cold.
The bigger question in Galway hurling is how there's senior panel members hanging around that panel for 6,7,8 years without breaking into the team. Donoghue culled a number of the last batch of these in his second year and it paid off. O'Neill either hasn't been brave enough or doesn't have the inside knowledge in underage and club hurling in Galway. Player power from the outside looking in seems to be a major issue in Galway for as long as I can remember.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 20/08/2021 11:45:26    2373297

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Replying To BeJasus:  "Unlike the hurlers, this is why Galway footballers will never make it back to the top in the modern era.
Fans are something else.

Imagine talking up another county and predicting/backing them to take over , instead of knuckling down and focusing on his own team ,supporting them to get to that required level to compete.

Guess taking pot-shots at Mayo will have to do for another decade, which will round it up to 30 years of being non competitive and totally irrelevant at the business end of tournaments.

Even the media aren't attracted to them anymore, with the hurlers keeping the flag flying."
A few trolls on Hogan Stand taking shots at Mayo are the reason our footballers will never make it to the top again?
If only it was that simple. Our problems run a lot deeper than that unfortunately. There is a lot of hard work and good work being done at underage level in Galway. We have some excellent coaches.
However, there are some serious gaps to be addressed in preparing players for senior football and all that this entails in the modern game.
We are hamstrung by the legacy of the County Board's terrible financial decisions over the past 10 years. However, there is still a lot more which can be done.
As I've said before, ignore the trolls. We all know who they are. It mightn't be easy, but there's nothing productive from engaging with them.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2045 - 20/08/2021 12:48:05    2373318

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