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VAR In GAA

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Because in true GAA style, it'll turn in to a sympathy parade and there could be all manner of skull duggery going on depending on who is in the dock and who is on the committee. No player will ever miss a final.
A much better idea is to let the referee ask a 4th official to see if he agrees with his decision on the field, decide on the offence, job done."
If the team that had the man wrongly sent off lost the game they could arguably ask for the game to be replayed. The committee would have admitted the referee made a mistake sending off the player and the team could argue that mistake affected the result.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 20/08/2021 11:53:40    2373301

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An umpire recently correctly reported a headbutt but his correct decision was overruled by a faceless committee in Croke Park.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1502 - 20/08/2021 12:56:39    2373326

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Replying To jonjon:  "It is an absolute no brainer imo. If the linesman can miss a clear shoulder to the head that happened right in front of him then there's obviously a big case for it.

Nothing anyone can say changes that for me. Any of us could have decided it was a red and free out to Mayo yesterday within 20 seconds by just a quick look at a short replay."
It wasn't just a linesman - it was an experienced referee* who has refereed 3 AIF's the last being the 2016 replay.
So lets institute VAR - the identical scene is replayed but now McQuillan (lets say) is on the line and Deegan is the TMO. DJ & the ref miss it from 10/15 yds and don't even stop play.

Deegan - top man remember*- is consulted and after reviewing decides no foul has been committed.

Now what? Ring Joe Duffy to complain while reading/hearing multiple arguments on HS and in the media claiming it was shoulder to shoulder because the 4th official said so. And he's not that kind of TMO (look at his refereeing record)/ Anybody can make a mistake/ Stop whinging etc. Case closed.

I know I won't convince you but without wishing to be rude I am in awe at your faith in human nature.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 290 - 23/08/2021 19:08:57    2374214

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Replying To timmyhogan:  "It wasn't just a linesman - it was an experienced referee* who has refereed 3 AIF's the last being the 2016 replay.
So lets institute VAR - the identical scene is replayed but now McQuillan (lets say) is on the line and Deegan is the TMO. DJ & the ref miss it from 10/15 yds and don't even stop play.

Deegan - top man remember*- is consulted and after reviewing decides no foul has been committed.

Now what? Ring Joe Duffy to complain while reading/hearing multiple arguments on HS and in the media claiming it was shoulder to shoulder because the 4th official said so. And he's not that kind of TMO (look at his refereeing record)/ Anybody can make a mistake/ Stop whinging etc. Case closed.

I know I won't convince you but without wishing to be rude I am in awe at your faith in human nature."
That's it. Even with VAR a human has to make a call on an infringement and tell the referee who has to decide what action to take. I think in the Premier League the VAR technology wasn't a problem, it was the interpretration or misinterpretation of the rules and what actions to take that caused some problems. And they're professional match officials.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 24/08/2021 07:24:48    2374287

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So we had it again at the weekend, Fergal Horgan asking linesman, going to ask the umpires, to recall what they saw.
Never mind that big 50ft screen above your head, a rewind button and the fact that the whole country has seen the replay by now.....

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1737 - 24/08/2021 10:14:55    2374308

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "So we had it again at the weekend, Fergal Horgan asking linesman, going to ask the umpires, to recall what they saw.
Never mind that big 50ft screen above your head, a rewind button and the fact that the whole country has seen the replay by now....."
you should still ask the actual officials first before going to any technology...

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 24/08/2021 13:48:33    2374358

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "That's it. Even with VAR a human has to make a call on an infringement and tell the referee who has to decide what action to take. I think in the Premier League the VAR technology wasn't a problem, it was the interpretration or misinterpretation of the rules and what actions to take that caused some problems. And they're professional match officials."
I was just sketching out a scenario - sometimes it's helpful to call things as they actually are!
ForeverBlue2 put it rather more succinctly a page back
... the lad in charge of the video could be just as blind you know …!!!

Moving slightly away from VAR Nigel Owens made an interesting point (after he retired naturally) about reffing big games. The guys on the line would be top refs too who would be in competition with him for the plum matches. Some days he says he'd look at who was running the line and think " I won't be getting much help here today"

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 290 - 24/08/2021 14:03:17    2374368

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We'll keep having these pointless and stupid conversations about refereeing until such a time as the majority of sports fans grow up and realise that referees are humans and will make mistakes in every single game.

Some will benefit your team, some will benefit the opposition. Grow up and get over it.

VAR isn't a silver bullet. That much is evident from watching soccer, the 'controversies' remain because of the fans' inability to grow up. GAA would be exactly the same.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 24/08/2021 14:03:47    2374369

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "So we had it again at the weekend, Fergal Horgan asking linesman, going to ask the umpires, to recall what they saw.
Never mind that big 50ft screen above your head, a rewind button and the fact that the whole country has seen the replay by now....."
Isn't it actually crazy when you think about it? The whole country has seen more than the actual people making the decision.

jonjon (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 24/08/2021 14:22:05    2374382

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Fair play, taking up this baton. I tried earlier this year.
People want the right decision, but don't want the referee to be able to have a second look IF A VIDEO ANGLE IS AVAILABLE.
Instead, they want him running around like a headless chicken asking lads 50 yards away what they saw, working on hearsay to make a decision.
And then they want to hang draw and quarter him after the match, before complaining about the standard of refereeing and/or lack of good referees.
The mind boggles.

We have a crisis of refereeing, yet we want to do nothing to help them come to the right decision. If we don't help the referee, then only expect the standard of refereeing to get worse."
Well said! , The ref needs audio/video assistance as the game gets faster and faster. The writing and enforcement of rules and subsequent "hearings of appeals also needs to be moved to an independently selected group such as former players and possibly vetted media writers. Applicati of "the rules" now appears to be handled by a an archaic, mysterious self-appointed, cloak and dagger bunch of bureaucrats who, sadly, may not know or care anything about hurling or football, and possibly collect a "fee' for their so -called exalted positions. Croke Park inner sanctuary needs to be flushed out as it appears successive Presidents appointed every 2 or 3 years to become silenced and mummified as soon as they enter the hallowed halls.

The amateur players who give so much of their time for the love of the game deserve respect and deserve better.

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1360 - 24/08/2021 14:42:45    2374389

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Replying To MesAmis:  "We'll keep having these pointless and stupid conversations about refereeing until such a time as the majority of sports fans grow up and realise that referees are humans and will make mistakes in every single game.

Some will benefit your team, some will benefit the opposition. Grow up and get over it.

VAR isn't a silver bullet. That much is evident from watching soccer, the 'controversies' remain because of the fans' inability to grow up. GAA would be exactly the same."
Fans also need to grow up and realize it's just sport. The carry on of some adults when things don't go their way is just shocking

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 24/08/2021 14:46:17    2374390

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There is a trade off here in reality. Either people recognise that Refs are human and they can't see everything or else we implement VAR. If a tackle like John Smalls is missed ad VAR isn't in use then people can have no complaints.

We don't want our games going the same way as the Rugby.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 24/08/2021 14:51:45    2374399

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "An umpire recently correctly reported a headbutt but his correct decision was overruled by a faceless committee in Croke Park."
Good call. The supposed head butt was decided by an umpire who admitted he only saw the incident via replay on the big screen . This was the same one who needed to call on Hawk-eye a few times during the game to decide what had been obvious to all in the stadium as well as the dogs in the street. Players deserve better.

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1360 - 24/08/2021 14:53:22    2374400

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Replying To MesAmis:  "We'll keep having these pointless and stupid conversations about refereeing until such a time as the majority of sports fans grow up and realise that referees are humans and will make mistakes in every single game.

Some will benefit your team, some will benefit the opposition. Grow up and get over it.

VAR isn't a silver bullet. That much is evident from watching soccer, the 'controversies' remain because of the fans' inability to grow up. GAA would be exactly the same."
I dont know . Video ref in Rugby is extremely successful. There has to be some outlet to fix a situation where the stakes are so high and when the offence is so blatant. With out putting too fine a point on it Gaa isnt soccer and hawk eye is there for the scores so it would only be for situations like this one where a clear foul could have cost the team a match in the wrong .. there is definitely some merit in at least having a closer look at it. I mean the smalls tackle is a health and safety issue. I mean a man ended up in hospital with a broken jaw

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 24/08/2021 16:13:50    2374434

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Replying To ritchie:  "I dont know . Video ref in Rugby is extremely successful. There has to be some outlet to fix a situation where the stakes are so high and when the offence is so blatant. With out putting too fine a point on it Gaa isnt soccer and hawk eye is there for the scores so it would only be for situations like this one where a clear foul could have cost the team a match in the wrong .. there is definitely some merit in at least having a closer look at it. I mean the smalls tackle is a health and safety issue. I mean a man ended up in hospital with a broken jaw"
Totally agree. The integrity of the game can be maintained while doing the right thing. Why is it always in the GAA it is the what if's. Start with a few fundamental reviews. Red carding of a player. scores, (exists but add goals) penalty calls, a last minute call by coaches challenge to a score or decision that alters the result. There is no point if one team is more than a score away from tying it up or winning. Most of this can be done without stopping play. Take some pressure off the referees so they don't have to be right all the time.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 24/08/2021 17:06:48    2374453

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Replying To ritchie:  "I dont know . Video ref in Rugby is extremely successful. There has to be some outlet to fix a situation where the stakes are so high and when the offence is so blatant. With out putting too fine a point on it Gaa isnt soccer and hawk eye is there for the scores so it would only be for situations like this one where a clear foul could have cost the team a match in the wrong .. there is definitely some merit in at least having a closer look at it. I mean the smalls tackle is a health and safety issue. I mean a man ended up in hospital with a broken jaw"
Small's offence wasn't blatant though. Yes when you watched it slow motion and saw still framed photos it was clearly a foul but at the time it wasn't clear.

The referee got a difficult call wrong, had there been VAR Small would have gotten the line but VAR still wouldn't have deterred Small from making the challenge. He got the line in the 2017 final for a similar challenge and it hasn't deterred him.

There are 100s of little and not so little fouls in games that players get away with. You can't check all of them. Once you bring in VAR there will be calls to bring it in for more and more of the game as well as complaints about how it's getting stuff wrong anyway. It's pointless.

We either get over ourselves and grow up or we keep crying like toddlers but only about the stuff that went against us not about the stuff that went for us.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 24/08/2021 18:25:30    2374465

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Replying To ritchie:  "I dont know . Video ref in Rugby is extremely successful. There has to be some outlet to fix a situation where the stakes are so high and when the offence is so blatant. With out putting too fine a point on it Gaa isnt soccer and hawk eye is there for the scores so it would only be for situations like this one where a clear foul could have cost the team a match in the wrong .. there is definitely some merit in at least having a closer look at it. I mean the smalls tackle is a health and safety issue. I mean a man ended up in hospital with a broken jaw"
Having VAR there wouldn't have made the tackle less dangerous under the current rules though. He looked to have intended a shoulder to shoulder good hard hit but the timing was off. They could look at somehow changing the shoulder charge to try minimising hits like that happening again. No lining up a player for a surprise hit maybe?

VAR is only as good as the technology and those operating it, possibly 4th, 5th, whatever number of officials are needed. I still think they still need to improve communication between 7 pitch officials, let other officials other than ref have more say in calls but most importantly consistency in apppication of the rules. The officials have a thankless task, absolutely dedicated to the games, more often abused than praised. Fair play to them. They should be the ones deciding if they want at least to trial run VAR. They're the ones who can see advantages and disadvantages.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 24/08/2021 19:06:38    2374476

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Replying To ritchie:  "I dont know . Video ref in Rugby is extremely successful. There has to be some outlet to fix a situation where the stakes are so high and when the offence is so blatant. With out putting too fine a point on it Gaa isnt soccer and hawk eye is there for the scores so it would only be for situations like this one where a clear foul could have cost the team a match in the wrong .. there is definitely some merit in at least having a closer look at it. I mean the smalls tackle is a health and safety issue. I mean a man ended up in hospital with a broken jaw"
He wasn't the first man to succumb to a mistimed shoulder which resulted in a broken jaw and operation and I daresay he won't be the last if something isn't done.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 24/08/2021 19:59:01    2374485

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Replying To ritchie:  "I dont know . Video ref in Rugby is extremely successful. There has to be some outlet to fix a situation where the stakes are so high and when the offence is so blatant. With out putting too fine a point on it Gaa isnt soccer and hawk eye is there for the scores so it would only be for situations like this one where a clear foul could have cost the team a match in the wrong .. there is definitely some merit in at least having a closer look at it. I mean the smalls tackle is a health and safety issue. I mean a man ended up in hospital with a broken jaw"
I would hate to see the GAA letting what happened in rugby happen to hurling and football. Spending maybe 10 mins a half stopping and slowing down the game to look incidents to be reviewed 10 times (and still getting some decisions wrong).

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1358 - 25/08/2021 01:12:45    2374557

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I would hate to see the GAA letting what happened in rugby happen to hurling and football. Spending maybe 10 mins a half stopping and slowing down the game to look incidents to be reviewed 10 times (and still getting some decisions wrong)."
The South African rugby coach managed to make a 1 hour long video on all the refereeing mistakes in a single game earlier this summer, and this is despite up to 30 minutes in every game being spent waiting for the video referee to watch incidents back. I'd say most rugby supporters would be delighted to see the video referee scrapped at this stage. Lots of match going soccer fans would have a similar view about Var.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 25/08/2021 09:58:27    2374584

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