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VAR In GAA

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Is it time for the GAA to start looking at video assisted referees? With a replay Dublin could have lost 4 or 5 players last night through cynical and dangerous play. John Smalls challenge could have resulted in a goal which would have completely changed the outcome of the game. At the business end of things it comes down to small margins and refereeing can massively impact the outcome of a game.

lumpitin21 (Armagh) - Posts: 4 - 15/08/2021 13:30:46    2371489

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Replying To lumpitin21:  "Is it time for the GAA to start looking at video assisted referees? With a replay Dublin could have lost 4 or 5 players last night through cynical and dangerous play. John Smalls challenge could have resulted in a goal which would have completely changed the outcome of the game. At the business end of things it comes down to small margins and refereeing can massively impact the outcome of a game."
No it's not,mayo won and deserved to win,move on.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 779 - 15/08/2021 13:43:16    2371496

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A coach's challenge like in basketball might be a better idea. Where the manager gets 2 or 3 challenges per game where they think the refs decision was incorrect.

Sssthe (Mayo) - Posts: 57 - 15/08/2021 13:52:05    2371501

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Replying To lumpitin21:  "Is it time for the GAA to start looking at video assisted referees? With a replay Dublin could have lost 4 or 5 players last night through cynical and dangerous play. John Smalls challenge could have resulted in a goal which would have completely changed the outcome of the game. At the business end of things it comes down to small margins and refereeing can massively impact the outcome of a game."
No. Have more consistent decisions of clearly defined rules and better communication between 7 match officials.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 15/08/2021 13:52:44    2371502

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It is an absolute no brainer imo. If the linesman can miss a clear shoulder to the head that happened right in front of him then there's obviously a big case for it.

Nothing anyone can say changes that for me. Any of us could have decided it was a red and free out to Mayo yesterday within 20 seconds by just a quick look at a short replay.

jonjon (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 15/08/2021 14:54:23    2371527

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Replying To jonjon:  "It is an absolute no brainer imo. If the linesman can miss a clear shoulder to the head that happened right in front of him then there's obviously a big case for it.

Nothing anyone can say changes that for me. Any of us could have decided it was a red and free out to Mayo yesterday within 20 seconds by just a quick look at a short replay."
To be fair like a lot of things in real time it looked ok so probably difficult for any of the 7 officials to pick up at the time but could have had a huge bearing on the outcome of the game. No brainier for me also but it would need to be controlled in a way that the game isn't stop start a lot like the premier league.

Yes Mayo won and deserved to win and everything else but that rub of the green can sometimes go against you and it can only be a matter of time before referees are assisted IMO.

lumpitin21 (Armagh) - Posts: 4 - 15/08/2021 15:14:02    2371539

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Replying To cityman73:  "No it's not,mayo won and deserved to win,move on."
OK then, Smalls challenge was an obvious foul and never mind Dublin getting a goal, had they put that chance over, then Mayo would have lost. You seem to think that since Mayo won there is no issue. The level of refereeing is horrendous so anything that assists in coming to the correct decision is needed.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1656 - 15/08/2021 15:16:08    2371542

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Replying To cityman73:  "No it's not,mayo won and deserved to win,move on."
Think the post was relating to the fact that if dublin had of scored a goal from that play mayo most would have lost. All because a red card offence was missed and play continued while a player lay knocked out.

TYE08 (Tyrone) - Posts: 93 - 15/08/2021 15:55:57    2371560

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Soccer has proven that VAR doesn't actually stop contentious decisions. There are still arguments every game over what was or wasn't a card/free/penalty

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 15/08/2021 17:11:12    2371592

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Fair play, taking up this baton. I tried earlier this year.
People want the right decision, but don't want the referee to be able to have a second look IF A VIDEO ANGLE IS AVAILABLE.
Instead, they want him running around like a headless chicken asking lads 50 yards away what they saw, working on hearsay to make a decision.
And then they want to hang draw and quarter him after the match, before complaining about the standard of refereeing and/or lack of good referees.
The mind boggles.

We have a crisis of refereeing, yet we want to do nothing to help them come to the right decision. If we don't help the referee, then only expect the standard of refereeing to get worse.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1737 - 17/08/2021 11:47:26    2372306

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Replying To Breezy:  "Soccer has proven that VAR doesn't actually stop contentious decisions. There are still arguments every game over what was or wasn't a card/free/penalty"
Agree with Breezy. Always loved watching soccer until VAR came to be. I thought it would be good but in my opinion it makes football (especially the premier league) very hard to watch.

My preference in top level inter county GAA is for 2 referees to be on the pitch as in Australian Rules. If both are making their decisions independently and not worried about who is already on a yellow etc, it might lead to players just cleaning up their act.

I know everyone has different opinions on this so not saying what I've suggested is the only way, but GAA needs something different to Rugby & Soccer as I don't think we want to slow the game down?

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 17/08/2021 13:01:41    2372349

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Replying To PK57:  "OK then, Smalls challenge was an obvious foul and never mind Dublin getting a goal, had they put that chance over, then Mayo would have lost. You seem to think that since Mayo won there is no issue. The level of refereeing is horrendous so anything that assists in coming to the correct decision is needed."
The crisis in refereeing is primarily to the definition of the tackle.If referees went by the rule book they would be stopping play for frees every few seconds for frees and then the referees would get sick for not letting the game flow.

In real time Smalls tackle on Mc Loughlin looked like a good shoulder.

It is a very difficult task to ref an inter county game with so much physicality involved.The GAA need to address the rules and clarify the tackle.

And there are plenty of people out there giving out about referees who would not have the back bone to referee.

ifindoubt (Donegal) - Posts: 133 - 17/08/2021 13:36:06    2372372

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Refereeing is a very tough business and I think the game has just gotten too fast and furious now, given the upswing in conditioning amongst the elite players. Plus the rules of football in particular keep changing, and it's a large area for one ref to monitor.

I don't know whether the best solution is VAR, two referees, a citing commissioner, or simply having better communication amongst the match officials. Because at present we have a referee, four umpires and two linesmen, and we seldom see the other officials bringing incidents to the ref's attention. Umpires in particular seem to be the square root of useless in this regard.

Certainly, the GAA need to start implementing its own rulebook somehow, because it seems like at the business end of each season there is some controversy concerning the disciplinary process.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 17/08/2021 14:02:15    2372383

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Replying To ifindoubt:  "The crisis in refereeing is primarily to the definition of the tackle.If referees went by the rule book they would be stopping play for frees every few seconds for frees and then the referees would get sick for not letting the game flow.

In real time Smalls tackle on Mc Loughlin looked like a good shoulder.

It is a very difficult task to ref an inter county game with so much physicality involved.The GAA need to address the rules and clarify the tackle.

And there are plenty of people out there giving out about referees who would not have the back bone to referee."
Great point.

30 years ago, Mick O'Dwyer said there was no clearly defined tackle in Gaelic Football. Micko put forward one idea of making Gaelic football jerseys stronger and allowing a pull on the bottom half of the shirt, whereby if the pull on the jersey stopped the player's momentum, they had to release the ball. Not sure if this is workable, but at least the man made an effort to solve the issue.

I think the issue with the Small tackle is that at the last second the tackler changed his step and there was upward movement of his arm and body into the ball carrier's head and body. Very difficult for officials to spot unless they are in the perfect position to see this. I didn't see the game live and heard about incidents. When I watched the recording in real time, I thought it was just a huge shoulder, but looking at it slowed down I saw things differently. Whatever anyone's thoughts on Small, it is not pleasant to see any player on the ground with injuries like that.

I'd hate to be a referee. Absolutely thankless job.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 17/08/2021 14:05:38    2372388

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NO!! The only crisis in refereeing is that few want to do it because of the abuse they get on and off the field. It's horrendous and we don't hear the half of it.
A ref has a bad day and the whole GAA community are up in arms. They miss things for sure and I think there is a case for giving the linesmen more of a role but look at TMO in rugby. A game that used to last 80 minutes less injuries, regularly takes 100+ mainly because of the tmo. When it came in first it was used to make calls on tries only (I think). VAR will probably evolve in a similiar way. Once it's in we want to use it for every little infraction.
I certainly think there is a case for citing players/managers post match as is done in rugby. That would deal with the O'Shea coming on the field and Small throwing a punch and one or two other incidents from that game. A player can appeal a red card so why not allow the reverse to happen.

Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 17/08/2021 14:17:36    2372395

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Nobody is suggesting VAR in the Premier League sense here.

And in fact, VAR in the PL worked well at the weekend. The benefit of the doubt was given to the attacking player, there was no need for a protractor this year.

But people need to realise, if a referee has to run around like a jackass asking people what they saw in an incident a few minutes ago which was 40-50-60 yards away, then people love a pantomime villain.

As far as I am concerned, ask the 4th official to review. Give him 30 seconds to decide "red/no red". And only if the referee suspects he has to send a player off.

The treatment of James Owens, who referees several matches I play every year, was nothing short of disgraceful. The GAA never came out to bat for him, they just hung him out to dry over a decision which I am sure he would probably say he got wrong.

The treatment of referees when their decisions are overturned by committees of bleeding hearts, is equally damaging.

We do nothing to help referees, which is why we are in a vicious cycle of fewer referees, and getting more bad ones.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1737 - 17/08/2021 14:55:31    2372419

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Nobody is suggesting VAR in the Premier League sense here.

And in fact, VAR in the PL worked well at the weekend. The benefit of the doubt was given to the attacking player, there was no need for a protractor this year.

But people need to realise, if a referee has to run around like a jackass asking people what they saw in an incident a few minutes ago which was 40-50-60 yards away, then people love a pantomime villain.

As far as I am concerned, ask the 4th official to review. Give him 30 seconds to decide "red/no red". And only if the referee suspects he has to send a player off.

The treatment of James Owens, who referees several matches I play every year, was nothing short of disgraceful. The GAA never came out to bat for him, they just hung him out to dry over a decision which I am sure he would probably say he got wrong.

The treatment of referees when their decisions are overturned by committees of bleeding hearts, is equally damaging.

We do nothing to help referees, which is why we are in a vicious cycle of fewer referees, and getting more bad ones."
Absolutely nailed it. In one of the fast sports in the world on the largest pitch the expectations for the referee is not reasonable. Stop hanging them out to dry with no help and in James Owens case giving him a badly constructed rule. Lets be honest here the rule was never close to being used again making Owens the goat. A good ref getting destroyed. Lambasted for using or making a mistake with a flawed rule that the designers now don't like in hind sight.
Review red card requirement on the spot. It will avoid most incorrect calls and a game changing occurrence. These suspect appeals would be minimized and only should be tolerated if there is new evidence (footage) from what the 4th official presented. Glad Peter Casey is playing in the final bur someone got a happy meal from McDonalds for that recinding. Play it a dozen times. He fired a head. His intent and his reaction to it confirms that, as he left the field with the body language of a man that knew what he had done. No kudos to Gleeson for provoking the incident.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 17/08/2021 15:50:55    2372448

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Nobody is suggesting VAR in the Premier League sense here.

And in fact, VAR in the PL worked well at the weekend. The benefit of the doubt was given to the attacking player, there was no need for a protractor this year.

But people need to realise, if a referee has to run around like a jackass asking people what they saw in an incident a few minutes ago which was 40-50-60 yards away, then people love a pantomime villain.

As far as I am concerned, ask the 4th official to review. Give him 30 seconds to decide "red/no red". And only if the referee suspects he has to send a player off.

The treatment of James Owens, who referees several matches I play every year, was nothing short of disgraceful. The GAA never came out to bat for him, they just hung him out to dry over a decision which I am sure he would probably say he got wrong.

The treatment of referees when their decisions are overturned by committees of bleeding hearts, is equally damaging.

We do nothing to help referees, which is why we are in a vicious cycle of fewer referees, and getting more bad ones."
Agree with your James Owens comment. Great ref and I had the fortune to work with him at an event a couple of years ago. Nice man who has a great manner with players.
He made an error that's all. People need to learn to move on and not hang refs who give up a lot for the cause

Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 17/08/2021 20:51:11    2372530

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Yeah, I would like to see it, just needs to be done in as swift a manner as possible as added time can be controversially long as it is

eoghan6688 (Galway) - Posts: 154 - 17/08/2021 22:01:11    2372553

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Replying To TYE08:  "Think the post was relating to the fact that if dublin had of scored a goal from that play mayo most would have lost. All because a red card offence was missed and play continued while a player lay knocked out."
I was so glad we didn't score that goal, not when a lad lay badly injured.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 17/08/2021 23:57:46    2372580

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